Could Batman defeat the entire Avengers?
- Thread starter Parasondox
- Start date
I mean it's hard to say because on paper Batman shouldn't be able to beat most of who he beats. Even if we're going one by one, I don't really see how he could even touch vision or thor. Spider-man would just kick his ass, straight up. Iron Man would be able to beat him since the suit is so much better than any of batman's gadgets and he invents his own stuff, so if you give BOTH of them a week to plan, Tony Stark is going to show up with crazy anti-batman tech.
He could probably beat/outsmart the rest of them.
He could probably beat/outsmart the rest of them.
Lets take this as objectively as possible, using Batman's appearance in his movies and the Avengers in their movies.
Iron Man: Has tech that is at least as good as Batman's, and at most alone makes the match up unwinnable. Tony's made so many suit upgrades he probably would have had a better shot at beating Superman than Batman himself. While that last bit might be a bit much, Tony's definitely got better toys at his disposal than Bruce.
The Hulk: There is literally -nothing- Batman can do to the Hulk in a fight. The only reason this isn't a 0-100 is because there's a chance one of Batman's toys might be able to knock Bruce out before he goes Hulk, but it's still basically such because in this continuity, Bruce has eaten fucking bullets and had the Hulk spit them back out. So have fun with that.
Black Widow: SHIELD's best, but still defeat-able in stealth and in melee combat, where both fighters excel.
War Machine: Iron Man with slightly less spacey tech, more shoot-y tech. A little more in Batman's favor, but still a loss, even if slightly less likely.
Thor: Hey, it's -literally- Superman. Except the bulk of his super strength (even though his hand to hand is pretty good) is inside an unstoppable unblock-able hammer. And no Kryptonite.
Hawkeye: Better at the long range than Black Widow, but probably not as good at the close range. Another one where Batman actually has fair odds. Probably easier to win than Black Widow, actually.
Captain America: Now, Cap could take Bats in a fist fight pretty solidly. Super Soldier drugs and all. But he doesn't have the same ways to get around stealth that the other characters who would need to worry about it do. So this is one Bats could win if he can Sneak Attack, rather than make an outright fight.
The Winter Soldier: A slightly stronger Cap with an arguably worse weapon, but with better use of Stealth and Secrecy. I wouldn't call this harder than Cap overall, though.
The Falcon: The wings are awesome for mobility and defense, but otherwise Sam's just a well trained human. The hardest of the 50-50 match ups, but still doable. Probably the easiest of them if Bats can get him into melee grounded territory, and it wouldn't be as hard as it would be against Iron Man or War Machine.
Scarlet Witch: That barely-trained human-female physique ain't doing her no favors in this match up. If Bats can get the drop on her, she's done. Granted, the fact that she can block bullets, psychic grab him, and drop him into the center of the earth's core if she wanted to means if he screws up his surprise round he's done.
Vision: Hey, it's -literally- Superman 2! Except no Kryptonite! And you can't even punch him! This one's outright unwinnable.
Ant Man: Yeah, have fun getting carried around by the bullet with the punching power of a Tank-Doing-A-Wheelie.
Black Panther: Were it not for the fact that his suit, which would protect him from about 90% of Batman's weapons and makes him even harder to fight than the Winter Soldier, is vulnerable to electricity, I'd put this one with the "Batman Loses". But given that Batman -does- carry weapons that would be useful against him, this one's possible, though not easy. Though Black Panther only got taken down because Black Widow took him entirely unaware, and not in a "I didn't know you were there" sense. Bats has one shot at that sort of tech before Panther knows to dodge it.
Spider Man: This one, on the other hand, had 30 minutes of screen-time and is already heavily stacked against Batman.
So, the Match-Ups.
Hard Counters
vs Vision: 0-100
vs The Hulk: 5-95
vs Thor: 10-90
vs Ant Man: 15-85
vs Spider Man: 20-80
vs Iron Man: 25-75
vs War Machine: 30-70
Possible with Stage Control or Strategy
vs Scarlet Witch: 35-65
vs Black Panther: 35-65
vs The Winter Soldier: 40-60
vs Captain America: 40-60
Neutral as is.
vs The Falcon: 45-55
vs Black Widow: 50-50
vs Hawkeye: 50-50
So, of the Avengers, he's got a hell of disadvantage against Vision, Hulk, Thor, Spider Man, or Antman; Iron Man and War Machine would be hard as hell; Scarlet Witch and Black Panther would be possible but still difficult and if he messes up his one advantage in each regard the fight becomes anywhere from harder to unwinnable; Winter Soldier and Captain America would be hard but doable; and Falcon, Black Widow, and Hawkeye are all relatively fair match ups.
I don't subscribe to the "Batman can beat up anyone if he has time to prepare for them" mentality, despite being a -MASSIVE- fan of the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited series. Consider in this scenario if he has time to look up any of these heroes, then either SHIELD, the Avengers People, or Stark Tech would have no less time to look up on Batman and pretty much even out any advantage gained. Nor am I counting any random bullcrap from the comics on either side. Just going off of the latest canon set of movie portrayals, giving Batman the Dark Knight series to give him a bit more ammo, since otherwise it'd be -just- BvS to draw from (and given that the entire movie was spoiled in the trailers and I've been warned/made aware the massive problems with Tone still haven't been addressed, I can't use BvS' info because I've no intention of wasting my money on it), and just using what was demonstrated in the Avengers Movies so far (with a nod at the slightly extended but still MCU canon for the existence of people to be able to check up on Batman and provide the Avengers info on him if he wanted to come knocking).
Iron Man: Has tech that is at least as good as Batman's, and at most alone makes the match up unwinnable. Tony's made so many suit upgrades he probably would have had a better shot at beating Superman than Batman himself. While that last bit might be a bit much, Tony's definitely got better toys at his disposal than Bruce.
The Hulk: There is literally -nothing- Batman can do to the Hulk in a fight. The only reason this isn't a 0-100 is because there's a chance one of Batman's toys might be able to knock Bruce out before he goes Hulk, but it's still basically such because in this continuity, Bruce has eaten fucking bullets and had the Hulk spit them back out. So have fun with that.
Black Widow: SHIELD's best, but still defeat-able in stealth and in melee combat, where both fighters excel.
War Machine: Iron Man with slightly less spacey tech, more shoot-y tech. A little more in Batman's favor, but still a loss, even if slightly less likely.
Thor: Hey, it's -literally- Superman. Except the bulk of his super strength (even though his hand to hand is pretty good) is inside an unstoppable unblock-able hammer. And no Kryptonite.
Hawkeye: Better at the long range than Black Widow, but probably not as good at the close range. Another one where Batman actually has fair odds. Probably easier to win than Black Widow, actually.
Captain America: Now, Cap could take Bats in a fist fight pretty solidly. Super Soldier drugs and all. But he doesn't have the same ways to get around stealth that the other characters who would need to worry about it do. So this is one Bats could win if he can Sneak Attack, rather than make an outright fight.
The Winter Soldier: A slightly stronger Cap with an arguably worse weapon, but with better use of Stealth and Secrecy. I wouldn't call this harder than Cap overall, though.
The Falcon: The wings are awesome for mobility and defense, but otherwise Sam's just a well trained human. The hardest of the 50-50 match ups, but still doable. Probably the easiest of them if Bats can get him into melee grounded territory, and it wouldn't be as hard as it would be against Iron Man or War Machine.
Scarlet Witch: That barely-trained human-female physique ain't doing her no favors in this match up. If Bats can get the drop on her, she's done. Granted, the fact that she can block bullets, psychic grab him, and drop him into the center of the earth's core if she wanted to means if he screws up his surprise round he's done.
Vision: Hey, it's -literally- Superman 2! Except no Kryptonite! And you can't even punch him! This one's outright unwinnable.
Ant Man: Yeah, have fun getting carried around by the bullet with the punching power of a Tank-Doing-A-Wheelie.
Black Panther: Were it not for the fact that his suit, which would protect him from about 90% of Batman's weapons and makes him even harder to fight than the Winter Soldier, is vulnerable to electricity, I'd put this one with the "Batman Loses". But given that Batman -does- carry weapons that would be useful against him, this one's possible, though not easy. Though Black Panther only got taken down because Black Widow took him entirely unaware, and not in a "I didn't know you were there" sense. Bats has one shot at that sort of tech before Panther knows to dodge it.
Spider Man: This one, on the other hand, had 30 minutes of screen-time and is already heavily stacked against Batman.
So, the Match-Ups.
Hard Counters
vs Vision: 0-100
vs The Hulk: 5-95
vs Thor: 10-90
vs Ant Man: 15-85
vs Spider Man: 20-80
vs Iron Man: 25-75
vs War Machine: 30-70
Possible with Stage Control or Strategy
vs Scarlet Witch: 35-65
vs Black Panther: 35-65
vs The Winter Soldier: 40-60
vs Captain America: 40-60
Neutral as is.
vs The Falcon: 45-55
vs Black Widow: 50-50
vs Hawkeye: 50-50
So, of the Avengers, he's got a hell of disadvantage against Vision, Hulk, Thor, Spider Man, or Antman; Iron Man and War Machine would be hard as hell; Scarlet Witch and Black Panther would be possible but still difficult and if he messes up his one advantage in each regard the fight becomes anywhere from harder to unwinnable; Winter Soldier and Captain America would be hard but doable; and Falcon, Black Widow, and Hawkeye are all relatively fair match ups.
I don't subscribe to the "Batman can beat up anyone if he has time to prepare for them" mentality, despite being a -MASSIVE- fan of the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited series. Consider in this scenario if he has time to look up any of these heroes, then either SHIELD, the Avengers People, or Stark Tech would have no less time to look up on Batman and pretty much even out any advantage gained. Nor am I counting any random bullcrap from the comics on either side. Just going off of the latest canon set of movie portrayals, giving Batman the Dark Knight series to give him a bit more ammo, since otherwise it'd be -just- BvS to draw from (and given that the entire movie was spoiled in the trailers and I've been warned/made aware the massive problems with Tone still haven't been addressed, I can't use BvS' info because I've no intention of wasting my money on it), and just using what was demonstrated in the Avengers Movies so far (with a nod at the slightly extended but still MCU canon for the existence of people to be able to check up on Batman and provide the Avengers info on him if he wanted to come knocking).
It did in the comic novel "Deadpool kill the Marvel Universe". Now I think about it, I should have a read on that comic on how Deadpool tackle Cap, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Iron Man and Thor etc.AccursedTheory said:
Actually I just remember this old Punisher comicbook that he had been feeding Bruce Banner some explosive material in his food. When did became the Hulk, he detonate the bomb inside Hulk stomach. The explosion wasn't powerfull per say to kill the Hulk with his stomach eploded out but it did render the Hulk (would killed a human) with enough pain for him to quickly revert back to Bruce.
The short answer is no.
The long answer is, hahahahaha, nope.
This is taking it from a outsider looking in, but Batman can't deal with most anyone without a fair bit of magic writing to get things done. Because I doubt that he could get around Spider-Man or Iron Man or Black Widow if they also had any prep time or foreknowledge. Even then, I doubt he could get around Black Widow or Hawkeye because they don't really have too many qualms about ending a dude. So while he has his best chance there, he's not fast enough to avoid a bullet to the face from Black Widow.
And that's not going in the rest who are typically stronger with more fantastic powers. And then there's you catch one or two alone, if you could manage to defeat them which is already unlikely, and you have to worry about catching the rest alone, when one of the super genius' quickly realize they're being targeted.
The long answer is, hahahahaha, nope.
This is taking it from a outsider looking in, but Batman can't deal with most anyone without a fair bit of magic writing to get things done. Because I doubt that he could get around Spider-Man or Iron Man or Black Widow if they also had any prep time or foreknowledge. Even then, I doubt he could get around Black Widow or Hawkeye because they don't really have too many qualms about ending a dude. So while he has his best chance there, he's not fast enough to avoid a bullet to the face from Black Widow.
And that's not going in the rest who are typically stronger with more fantastic powers. And then there's you catch one or two alone, if you could manage to defeat them which is already unlikely, and you have to worry about catching the rest alone, when one of the super genius' quickly realize they're being targeted.
No. He's a mortal human being, not a green rage monster, a demi-God, or a man in super armour. Hell, I don't even think he could
beat Cap. Batman would get crushed.
beat Cap. Batman would get crushed.
Nope. Dude loses out in every single category. Even WEALTH. T'Challas net worth is almost double Waynes. Dude would outright lose to 80% of the team one on one too.
Yes.
Why? Because he's a comic character. And like all comic characters, he's only as good, as bad, as smart, as powerful, as weak, or as dumb as the writers make him. Ergo, if they wanted him to be, he'd be unbeatable. Or rather, he'd defeat The Avengers. Handily.
Comics are dumb. And fiction. Why are we debating the "reality" of this match up? Why do people get worked up over it? Jeez.
Why? Because he's a comic character. And like all comic characters, he's only as good, as bad, as smart, as powerful, as weak, or as dumb as the writers make him. Ergo, if they wanted him to be, he'd be unbeatable. Or rather, he'd defeat The Avengers. Handily.
Comics are dumb. And fiction. Why are we debating the "reality" of this match up? Why do people get worked up over it? Jeez.
I'm sure they could write something in...
Trick Thor into being unworthy (or thinking he is)
Hulk out of they way
EMP/counter suit for Iron man
Hawkeye, Cap and black widow can be out fough and or out thinked
Vision is trickier....but this is batman, remove his gem corrupt his code, it's doable....
...but yeh heaven forbid any of them have a mother/sister/niece or cat named Martha...
Trick Thor into being unworthy (or thinking he is)
Hulk out of they way
EMP/counter suit for Iron man
Hawkeye, Cap and black widow can be out fough and or out thinked
Vision is trickier....but this is batman, remove his gem corrupt his code, it's doable....
...but yeh heaven forbid any of them have a mother/sister/niece or cat named Martha...
(Using the Avengers members that show up in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, for the record.)
Never. A lot of people just assume Batman can beat everyone with enough prep time, well what do you think the opponent's doing, sitting on the couch eating cake or something? You know what would happen if Batman ever actually tried to fight Martian Manhunter, as an example? Batman would throw a punch and MM would turn to an unbreakable metal, grab Batman, phase a hand through Batsy's chest and crush his stupid heart.
-Batman vs. Hulk goes exactly one way: a huge red smear on the inside of Batman's cape after Hulk punches him so hard it pulverizes him. All Batman's prep is going to do is piss off Hulk, the exact wrong way to fight Hulk. And if you think Batman can get to and kill Bruce Banner before Hulk, well you really don't know how good Hulk is at self-preservation, do you? ("I tried to shoot myself in the mouth, the Other Guy spat the bullet out.")
-Batman vs. Thor, same thing, except substitute "punch" with "any hit from Mjolnir." Thor's cocky, yes, but he's not stupid. Also, GOD. LITERAL GOD.
-Batman vs. Iron Man/War Machine (interchangeable, really), all they have to do is knock Batman out with a repulsor blast or grab him and knock him out by pulling him into high altitudes where there's little to no oxygen and drop him in, say, a vat of acid, or shatter his skull with another two repulsor shots to the head or something.
-Batman vs. Wasp or Ant-Man, either of them could shrink to the size of a blood cell, enter Batman's brain and grow enough to crush it underfoot or against the roof of his skull, liquefy it with a punch or use Pym Particles to shrink his lungs to the point they can't process oxygen, or even just shrink Batman since Batsy doesn't have anything that he could adjust his biology to breathe at a shrunken size (you'd think he would in case he had to fight Atom).
-Batman vs. Vision, ha ha ha no. Vision can phase through anything Batman can throw at him then head-laser Batman's head off.
-Batman vs. Scarlet Witch, yeah, right. Let's see Batsy's face after Scarlet Witch throws everything Batman can throw at her back at him at double the force. Batman could probably take her if he can stealth around her and pick his moment, so this one could go either way.
-For a laugh, Batman vs. Quicksilver. REALLY no-win scenario for Batman here. This is the same thing that'd happen with Batman vs. The Flash, the speedsters just punch Batman in the throat something like a thousand times in five seconds, crushing his larynx and trachea, suffocating him. Or they could grab Batsy and run at super-speed, the pressure of which would liquefy his organs and leave Batman as little more than a vaguely human-shaped fleshy sack of organ slurry.
-Batman vs. Spider-Man, there's an entire Death Battle dedicated to show why Batman's in over his head against Spidey. The Spider Sense nullifies stealth and Spider-Man is WAY stronger and more durable than Batman.
-Batman vs. Black Panther (slightly redundant name aside)...I just see an impaled Batman. Panther's takeable, but considering his suit is vibranium, the same stuff Captain America's unbreakable shield is made of, I don't see Batman putting much of a dent in him.
-For another laugh, Batman vs. Doctor Strange, holy nuts ha ha ha no. With as much magical power as the Sorcerer Supreme commands, the number of ways Strange beats Batman are so numerous and hilariously pitiful on Batman's part I'd be here forever running through them. Let's just say "Batman loses VERY badly" and move on.
-For Batman, the only Avengers members who're even remotely takeable are Hawkeye, Black Widow, Falcon and Captain America. Cap's got more than a few tricks up his sleeves and could probably out-fight him in a straight brawl. With Black Widow it really depends on who can out-fight who (since Widow's an infiltrator and assassin and, through her training, way more than capable of spotting and disarming Batman's traps and yes, there are martial artists in the DC Universe that can out-fight Batman, even on their worst and Batsy's best day) which would be a better fight than you think, if only because Batman has been beaten by assassins before, and if Hawkeye can get enough range to use his bow. Batman vs. Falcon would be a pretty interesting fight, and one that I think Batman would probably win.
Never. A lot of people just assume Batman can beat everyone with enough prep time, well what do you think the opponent's doing, sitting on the couch eating cake or something? You know what would happen if Batman ever actually tried to fight Martian Manhunter, as an example? Batman would throw a punch and MM would turn to an unbreakable metal, grab Batman, phase a hand through Batsy's chest and crush his stupid heart.
-Batman vs. Hulk goes exactly one way: a huge red smear on the inside of Batman's cape after Hulk punches him so hard it pulverizes him. All Batman's prep is going to do is piss off Hulk, the exact wrong way to fight Hulk. And if you think Batman can get to and kill Bruce Banner before Hulk, well you really don't know how good Hulk is at self-preservation, do you? ("I tried to shoot myself in the mouth, the Other Guy spat the bullet out.")
-Batman vs. Thor, same thing, except substitute "punch" with "any hit from Mjolnir." Thor's cocky, yes, but he's not stupid. Also, GOD. LITERAL GOD.
-Batman vs. Iron Man/War Machine (interchangeable, really), all they have to do is knock Batman out with a repulsor blast or grab him and knock him out by pulling him into high altitudes where there's little to no oxygen and drop him in, say, a vat of acid, or shatter his skull with another two repulsor shots to the head or something.
-Batman vs. Wasp or Ant-Man, either of them could shrink to the size of a blood cell, enter Batman's brain and grow enough to crush it underfoot or against the roof of his skull, liquefy it with a punch or use Pym Particles to shrink his lungs to the point they can't process oxygen, or even just shrink Batman since Batsy doesn't have anything that he could adjust his biology to breathe at a shrunken size (you'd think he would in case he had to fight Atom).
-Batman vs. Vision, ha ha ha no. Vision can phase through anything Batman can throw at him then head-laser Batman's head off.
-Batman vs. Scarlet Witch, yeah, right. Let's see Batsy's face after Scarlet Witch throws everything Batman can throw at her back at him at double the force. Batman could probably take her if he can stealth around her and pick his moment, so this one could go either way.
-For a laugh, Batman vs. Quicksilver. REALLY no-win scenario for Batman here. This is the same thing that'd happen with Batman vs. The Flash, the speedsters just punch Batman in the throat something like a thousand times in five seconds, crushing his larynx and trachea, suffocating him. Or they could grab Batsy and run at super-speed, the pressure of which would liquefy his organs and leave Batman as little more than a vaguely human-shaped fleshy sack of organ slurry.
-Batman vs. Spider-Man, there's an entire Death Battle dedicated to show why Batman's in over his head against Spidey. The Spider Sense nullifies stealth and Spider-Man is WAY stronger and more durable than Batman.
-Batman vs. Black Panther (slightly redundant name aside)...I just see an impaled Batman. Panther's takeable, but considering his suit is vibranium, the same stuff Captain America's unbreakable shield is made of, I don't see Batman putting much of a dent in him.
-For another laugh, Batman vs. Doctor Strange, holy nuts ha ha ha no. With as much magical power as the Sorcerer Supreme commands, the number of ways Strange beats Batman are so numerous and hilariously pitiful on Batman's part I'd be here forever running through them. Let's just say "Batman loses VERY badly" and move on.
-For Batman, the only Avengers members who're even remotely takeable are Hawkeye, Black Widow, Falcon and Captain America. Cap's got more than a few tricks up his sleeves and could probably out-fight him in a straight brawl. With Black Widow it really depends on who can out-fight who (since Widow's an infiltrator and assassin and, through her training, way more than capable of spotting and disarming Batman's traps and yes, there are martial artists in the DC Universe that can out-fight Batman, even on their worst and Batsy's best day) which would be a better fight than you think, if only because Batman has been beaten by assassins before, and if Hawkeye can get enough range to use his bow. Batman vs. Falcon would be a pretty interesting fight, and one that I think Batman would probably win.
I'm like 90% sure that all of Tony's suits are protected against EMP attacks. I mean, he'd have to be an idiot to allow such an obvious weakness to persist in his suits for more than a little while. They also have base stats of being able to lift 100 tons and fly faster than the speed of sound. And considering some of his more recent suits, Bleeding Edge, Endo-Sym Armor, or his current shape shifting armor, I don't think Batsy stands much a chance against Tony.sniddy said:
The only Avengers I could see him having a chance of beating even 1v1 are Hawkeye, Widow, and Falcon.
Of course, if he's written by a "Batman could beat Galactus!" fanboy, then he's the one thing more powerful than a god among men: A Mary-Sue. Then he could win.
Really though, Stark would buy out Wayne's company, thereby destroying his pipeline of gadgets.
Of course, if he's written by a "Batman could beat Galactus!" fanboy, then he's the one thing more powerful than a god among men: A Mary-Sue. Then he could win.
Really though, Stark would buy out Wayne's company, thereby destroying his pipeline of gadgets.
If it is written by a DC writer, for DC fans, then yes.
If it is written by a Marvel writer, for Marvel fans, then no.
As reference, I point you to the Amalgam DC/Marvel crossover of the 90s. Fans voted for who would win in every match-up, and the battles were written to reflect this.
Though, on further reflection, I'd genuinely love to see a straight up fight between Batman and Daredevil.
If it is written by a Marvel writer, for Marvel fans, then no.
As reference, I point you to the Amalgam DC/Marvel crossover of the 90s. Fans voted for who would win in every match-up, and the battles were written to reflect this.
Though, on further reflection, I'd genuinely love to see a straight up fight between Batman and Daredevil.
If Batman and the Avengers just appeared next to each other and had a strong need to fight, I think it would be a pretty even fight against Hawkeye, and maybe even Black Widow, Falcon or Black Panther, and maybe Ant-Man, too, but everybody else would pummel him.
If Batman had some time to examine his enemies and prepare, and if it was a one-sided thing (ergo, Batman had time to prepare, but the Avengers did not), then he could probably have somewhat more of a chance against Cap, The Winter Soldier, Spiderman and Iron Man/War Machine, but Thor, Scarlett Witch, Vision, and The Hulk would be too powerful for him outright.
If Batman had some time to examine his enemies and prepare, and if it was a one-sided thing (ergo, Batman had time to prepare, but the Avengers did not), then he could probably have somewhat more of a chance against Cap, The Winter Soldier, Spiderman and Iron Man/War Machine, but Thor, Scarlett Witch, Vision, and The Hulk would be too powerful for him outright.