Critical Miss: #28

[ninjajoeman]

well think about it like this... do you really want to be a space marine just think the amount of kids playing as a space marine. oh and if you want to avode this just play as the most repulsive race and you should be set.

 

[Malkavian]

Put in Sisters of Battle as a functional equivalent of Space Marines. Problem solved. Also, please note that I said "functional equivalent", meaning that I know they are different lore-wise, but are generally on the same side and have roughly the same stats in TT, so it could be used as a workaround for the male-only SM problem.

If there was something to ***** about, then it might as well be the lack of female Chosen in Warhammer Online. The official response was that it wasn't in line with the lore, but the problem is that it IS in line with the lore. Heck, I have a Warhammer book containing a female Chosen (the first Gotrek & Felix book), so it's pretty much completely by the lore.

I may come across as pedantic here, sinc eI do agree with you, but:
SoB are not equals of marines. Oh, they may be TT, but that's because it has to be balanced. TT does not reflect the actual "truth" of the universe. Marines are a lot more powerful in the fluff than they are in the actual game. In that respect, it wouldn't work.

Also, Gortrek and Felix, and all other Black Library Books out there, are actually not official fluff. So even if there IS a female chosen in there, it doesn't mean anything, if we want to be pedantic. That said, I don't remember reading any good reason why all Chosen should be male in the army books, so...


Why oh why does Space Marines have to be the big thign in everything 40k related? Honestly, they are the most bland characters in the universe. Why can't we have an MMO that is centered around inquisitors. IMO, that makes much more sense for a MMO.

 

[cynik]

There are female space marines. They just are not called space marines. Battle sisters. Basically no difference

You couldn't be any more wrong even if you tried. Adeptus sororitas are unaltered humans whose origin is a sorority in Vandire's times, eventually they've been transformed to a militarised unit by Sebastian Thor.
Adeptus astartes, the space marines are genetically and biologically altered humans, males only due to the fact that the primarchs were males as well and so is their geneseed. I assume that there would be som serious compatibility issues if they tried to enhance females with mentioned geneseed and the augumentics. The whole process alters the body of a space marine way too heavily to see him as a human. The lack of sexual lust could be explained by the fact, that it would be an unnecessary distraction for a battlebred warmachine. Not to mention the uh, size compatibility since the body of a space marine is eventually far bigger than one of an ordinary human.
Which made me realise, that I might be a nerd knowing it all.

EDIT: quoted wrong post, lol.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

-All Hail Britannia Snip-
True, but then every time I read about the Sisters of Battle I always think they make up for everything they're lacking by being overly zealous about purification. And stuff.

The source of their power is their faith. Whereas the Astartes rely mostly on tech, the Sororitas rely on tech, and their unbreakable faith.
And it does the job >.> They get little miracles granted by the Emperor, or various saints >.>
They are zealous, because if they keep believing, then their prayers are answered >.>
Plus, a prerequisite to join them is to be a pyromaniac.
>.>
<.<

You ok? Your eyes are twitching.

 

[squiggothhunter]

-All Hail Britannia Snip-
True, but then every time I read about the Sisters of Battle I always think they make up for everything they're lacking by being overly zealous about purification. And stuff.

The source of their power is their faith. Whereas the Astartes rely mostly on tech, the Sororitas rely on tech, and their unbreakable faith.
And it does the job >.> They get little miracles granted by the Emperor, or various saints >.>
They are zealous, because if they keep believing, then their prayers are answered >.>
Plus, a prerequisite to join them is to be a pyromaniac.
>.>
<.<

Excuse me? No. The astartes are far from relying solely on their tech. Their Hate gives them strength to purge the Xeno, the Heretic, and the Damned. Can a battle sister spit acid? No! Can a battle sister eat the brain of an enemy and gain understanding of how to operate xenotech? NO!

A space marine is a genetically enhanced male far superior to any other force. Sisters are cool with meltas, but all their really useful for is guarding inquisitors and churches =p

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

I think they just pop out of the ground cause for the life of me i've never read about a female ork.

Actually, they do! There are a few references to them leaving behind ork spores, and the spores becoming new orks. (I don't know if that's been retconned somewhere along the line, I saw that years ago) They really do just pop out of the ground! Orks are plants!

Partially fungoid organisms, and there's more than just a "few" references to that - orks reproducing from spores is in fact 100% positively canonical, there are even books that delve into the mechanics (Xenology for one).

Also, Gortrek and Felix, and all other Black Library Books out there, are actually not official fluff.

Not actually correct - Black Library publications, unless they've been specifically disavowed for some reason, are considered to be as canonical as anything you find in the rulebooks. Same thing goes with fluff found in the licensed RPGs that Fantasy Flight Games makes - everything gets run by the GW folks for approval, and what makes it into the book is canon.

It's possible that, for whatever reason, the books you're talking about aren't considered as such (I don't read WHF novels, I'm all about the 40K side), but in general Black Library books are in fact quite official.

Which made me realise, that I might be a nerd knowing it all.

Well sure, but do you remember their original name prior to Vandire bamboozling them into becoming his personal guards by passing off his refractor field as divine intervention, the name of the sister who killed him, and Vandire's last words? I wouldn't really worry about being considered the nerdy one in this discussion is what I'm getting at here.

 

[Chris^^]

Sisters of Battle..? Female marines, essentially. OR just play as marines anyway, so what if you have to surrender the stupidly curvy generic female body of an MMO?

 

[Katherine Kerensky]

-snip-
Excuse me? No. The astartes are far from relying solely on their tech. Their Hate gives them strength to purge the Xeno, the Heretic, and the Damned. Can a battle sister spit acid? No! Can a battle sister eat the brain of an enemy and gain understanding of how to operate xenotech? NO!

A space marine is a genetically enhanced male far superior to any other force. Sisters are cool with meltas, but all their really useful for is guarding inquisitors and churches =p

The examples you gave are derived from technology >.>
But no, they do not rely solely on tech, you are right, it is their hate which fuels them.
The point I was trying to make is that the Sororitas rely on faith far more than the Astartes, partly because the Astartes have access to better tech (Generally, as they are the Emperor's precision scalpel, compared to the hammer of the Imperial Guard).

 

[Nerf Ninja]

If I remember right, the older lore on 40k used to say that because of all the geneteic modification a space marine goes through they don't actually have a penis anymore...

 

[squiggothhunter]

-snip-
Excuse me? No. The astartes are far from relying solely on their tech. Their Hate gives them strength to purge the Xeno, the Heretic, and the Damned. Can a battle sister spit acid? No! Can a battle sister eat the brain of an enemy and gain understanding of how to operate xenotech? NO!

A space marine is a genetically enhanced male far superior to any other force. Sisters are cool with meltas, but all their really useful for is guarding inquisitors and churches =p

The examples you gave are derived from technology >.>
But no, they do not rely solely on tech, you are right, it is their hate which fuels them.
The point I was trying to make is that the Sororitas rely on faith far more than the Astartes, partly because the Astartes have access to better tech (Generally, as they are the Emperor's precision scalpel, compared to the hammer of the Imperial Guard).

I suppose as long as we keep the grey knights out of this thats true enough

 

[Jandau]

Put in Sisters of Battle as a functional equivalent of Space Marines. Problem solved. Also, please note that I said "functional equivalent", meaning that I know they are different lore-wise, but are generally on the same side and have roughly the same stats in TT, so it could be used as a workaround for the male-only SM problem.

If there was something to ***** about, then it might as well be the lack of female Chosen in Warhammer Online. The official response was that it wasn't in line with the lore, but the problem is that it IS in line with the lore. Heck, I have a Warhammer book containing a female Chosen (the first Gotrek & Felix book), so it's pretty much completely by the lore.

I may come across as pedantic here, sinc eI do agree with you, but:
SoB are not equals of marines. Oh, they may be TT, but that's because it has to be balanced. TT does not reflect the actual "truth" of the universe. Marines are a lot more powerful in the fluff than they are in the actual game. In that respect, it wouldn't work.

Also, Gortrek and Felix, and all other Black Library Books out there, are actually not official fluff. So even if there IS a female chosen in there, it doesn't mean anything, if we want to be pedantic. That said, I don't remember reading any good reason why all Chosen should be male in the army books, so...


Why oh why does Space Marines have to be the big thign in everything 40k related? Honestly, they are the most bland characters in the universe. Why can't we have an MMO that is centered around inquisitors. IMO, that makes much more sense for a MMO.

I know SMs and SoBs are quite different, but I was putting it forward simply as a compromise solution. I have no problem with bending the lore a bit to fit gameplay better.

What is official fluff except the Army books? Also, Gotrek & Felix are among the most popular and well loved WH books, so I'm guessing that counts for something.

And finally, I completely and utterly agree that the focus on SMs is retarded. As far as I know, Games Workshop is the one pushing SMs in any and all mediums, so maybe they had something to do with that. Inquisition would deffinately make for a far better player faction, since the sheer variety of operatives they field would provide all the option players could want for character classes.

 

[seditary]

I was going to type out quite a lot of stuff but thankfully Gildan Bladeborn has done it all already.

Of course I wouldn't play Space Marines in a 40k MMO even if you paid me due to the overwhelming majority of fail human detritus they'll attract.

As long as I can be a Farseer.

 

[Alar]

I'll let them be my space marines any day...

Wait, that doesn't work as a sexual innuendo.

Great comic. You had me laughing several times. Ah, WarHammer...

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

Inquisition would deffinately make for a far better player faction, since the sheer variety of operatives they field would provide all the option players could want for character classes.

Of course, if you let players actually play as inquisitors, you're going to get complaints when they don't have the power to consign entire worlds to death. You can't really win!

Personally I'd love a game where everyone on the Imperial side is working for the inquisition, that way you could actually imagine lone Space Marines in a context you're somewhat likely to actually find a single Space Marine operating in - sending a single Deathwatch marine to accompany a cell of acolytes is a far more reasonable proposition than a universe full of lone wolf marines - same thing goes for small units of crack stormtroopers, etc. Making players part of the Inquisition, which has little to no standardization or internal consistency, quite neatly sidesteps problems generated by the MMO nature of the title that might break immersion.

But you just know somebody is going to want to order Exterminatus if they're working for the Inquisition, so nothing is perfect.

I was going to type out quite a lot of stuff but thankfully Gildan Bladeborn has done it all already.

Always happy to save people time! Also to talk about Warhammer 40,000, I can't ever do that often enough.

 

[Chipperz]

That said, so the lore of 40K really does have no females in the marines? I don't follow the series, so...

The original Space Marine genetic manipulation pattern needed male recipients, something to do with testosterone and chromosomes and the fact that girls didn't play tabletop wargaming for about the next two decades anyway

Or, in other words, in the olden days you needed balls to be a Space Marine!

If it's REALLY an issue, women could play Orks? They're plants, they don't have male OR female characters!

 

[Dr. wonderful]

Space Marines!?

I don't care care about SpaceMarines! Orks! Wut do we do!?

"Orks are made fo' fightin' and winnin'! For crushin' an killin'! We iz gonna stomp them all flat an' not stop till the 'hole galaxy's green! Say it with me now! WAAAAAAAGGGGHHHH!

 

[ironduke88]

Inquisition would deffinately make for a far better player faction, since the sheer variety of operatives they field would provide all the option players could want for character classes.

Of course, if you let players actually play as inquisitors, you're going to get complaints when they don't have the power to consign entire worlds to death. You can't really win!

Personally I'd love a game where everyone on the Imperial side is working for the inquisition, that way you could actually imagine lone Space Marines in a context you're somewhat likely to actually find a single Space Marine operating in - sending a single Deathwatch marine to accompany a cell of acolytes is a far more reasonable proposition than a universe full of lone wolf marines - same thing goes for small units of crack stormtroopers, etc. Making players part of the Inquisition, which has little to no standardization or internal consistency, quite neatly sidesteps problems generated by the MMO nature of the title that might break immersion.

But you just know somebody is going to want to order Exterminatus if they're working for the Inquisition, so nothing is perfect.

While I totally agree with how much better it would be if the Imperial faction were the inquisition. I really don't think it will happen. As for the exterminatus they have to be justified to the higher up's so if they just make the player low enoughwithin the inquisition hierarchy then they can't do that.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

But if you judge Lethal Weapon by Danny Glover...that's a good thing. Danny Glover was funny. And he's getting too old for this shit.

That said, so the lore of 40K really does have no females in the marines? I don't follow the series, so...

The genetic and physiology alterations involved in becoming a Space Marine require a genetically receptive male at about the age of puberty. Even then, the success rate is fairly low.

 

[Jandau]

Of course, if you let players actually play as inquisitors, you're going to get complaints when they don't have the power to consign entire worlds to death. You can't really win!

From what I've read of the Dark Heresy materials, lower ranks of the Inquisition (Acolytes) don't get to burn worlds. They function as field agents and generally are closer to the standard RPG adventurers, getting sent on a variety of assignments by the Inquisition. They come from any number of backgrounds, from Psykers, Rogues to Imperial Guardsmen. It's basically a perfect RPG setup (hence why it was made into a TT RPG )...