Critical Miss: Evil, Evidently
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Grey Carter said:
.....I'm guessing you didn't like Killzone 3.Say what you want my good sir, but for continuity's sake of finishing the series and the fact that I out right despise any Call of Duty game (Cept 4) Then I shall continue to play this awesome game.....and yes they are EEEEEEEEEEEVIL!!
Good to see Nietzsche getting some love here. I think this may be the first time I've seen someone reference Nietzsche in some way that is accurate.ReiverCorrupter said:Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche. I know it's a pain to spell, it's polish. And he wasn't a nihilist. In fact, pretty much all of his writings are geared towards defeating nihilism. He didn't believe in objective values, but rather that we create values through our wills. It's complicated. He's a really witty writer, I suggest you read one of his works when you get a chance. "Twilight of the Idols" and "The Antichrist" are both short and thought provoking.Abedeus said:Nitz... Nitsche... The nihilist guy?ReiverCorrupter said:Lol. That's rather ironic considering he's German. I'll give you one last hint. He's probably most famous for saying "God is dead." Though people often misinterpret what he means by this.Abedeus said:I have no idea who said it. Because I don't have English History or History in English.ReiverCorrupter said:Well since we're ranting about education, perhaps one of you could tell me who I'm paraphrasing:Abedeus said:Yeah, the whole "take over half the continent and enslave several countries and pretend it's saving them" was totally neutral.Eico said:Firstly: There is no good in war. Period.Misho- said:But Stalin was one of the good guys in WW2... Oh wait right... Communism equals eveel so it's okay then. Why not throw Castro in there too?Ghengis John said:I try to tell people "This series is just world war II, in space." Then they rage at me about how it's not and it's an all original story line that's so inventive and if I just played it and appreciated it and loved it and wanted to marry it like they did maybe I'd finally see that I was wrong all along and...
No.
What? Do they not teach history in school anymore? Why can't these kids see this? Every time I run into these guys I have to pull out wikipedia and educate them myself. Now it's fine to love you some world war two in space. Just you know, be willing to admit it's world war two in space.
Second: Russia was neutral in the war. The only reason they were considered allies is because they were fighting back the Germans. Who, you know, invaded them. Russia couldn't care less about the rest of us at that point.
Neutral would be leaving Poland after getting rid of Nazis. Not staying for picnic for almost 35 years. And then making everyone love their picnic, and kill en masse anything that said picnic wasn't nice or the bees were stinging them.
"It's not the cause that justifies the war, but the war that justifies the cause"
I'll give you a hint, it's the same guy who said, "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
I could google it, but if you are too lazy, I am as well.
Seriously, we don't learn about what people SAY in school. And I don't learn every single quote in all languages I know.
Would be nice if someone like Nietzsche was more influential in games and such, his view of going 'beyond good and evil' could make the whole 'moral choice' mechanic much more fun. Plus his perspectivism and concept of the overhuman (and eternal recurrence, AND will to power) would make great gameplay elements.
Throw a resurrected Nietzsche into this game and I may be interested.
Two Hitlers? I only ever saw one Hitler. To be honest though, my focus was on the guy with the really goofy 'stache...
And then before "And then invaded by space-yanks.", you guys forgot all about Killzone 1 and Killzone Liberation, where the Helghast invaded the "space-yanks" FIRST and did lots of nasty things there, one of the big ones stealing a nuclear weapon from the ISA and take it back to Helghan. This is why they were invaded by space-yanks. And then we all know about the nasty things they did in Killzone 2 and 3 if we played.
No, I do not feel sorry for the Helghast at this point at all. I also find it quite laughable when people claim "You play as the bad guys in this game, the Helghast are the good guys." No, they are absolutely not the bad guys. The ISA aren't really the "good guys" here, but that doesn't mean the Helghast are. You have the ISA which are just regular dickheads and not total bad guys (still jerks though), and then you have the Helghast which are giant, "gold penis statue from Minecraft" dickheads who are 100% pure bad-guy. And THAT is all things you will learn if you truly pay attention to the story.
http://www.killzone.com/kz/storyline.psml Good stuff, check it out sometime. And remember to play the games again and pay attention, you can see that the Helghast aren't even close to being good guys or being pitiable.
The one on the left in this pic. What the hell is going on with that facial hair, Helghast dude?!Ghengis John said:
I would submit that they did not pay attention to the story. They left out the part where the Helgan people (they weren't called Helghast yet) tried to basically take over space and make it really hard for other people to trade, and try to kick out what were basically government troops from their planets. Obviously, the ISA and the UCA responded to this act of aggression, and ended up winning that war. So that's the part that wasn't mentioned before "Exiled to a radioactive, inhospitable planet?". The Helghan people started a fight, and then lost it.Madara XIII said:RobCoxxy said:
Huzzah for someone who payed attention to the story
You sir are awesome.
And then before "And then invaded by space-yanks.", you guys forgot all about Killzone 1 and Killzone Liberation, where the Helghast invaded the "space-yanks" FIRST and did lots of nasty things there, one of the big ones stealing a nuclear weapon from the ISA and take it back to Helghan. This is why they were invaded by space-yanks. And then we all know about the nasty things they did in Killzone 2 and 3 if we played.
No, I do not feel sorry for the Helghast at this point at all. I also find it quite laughable when people claim "You play as the bad guys in this game, the Helghast are the good guys." No, they are absolutely not the bad guys. The ISA aren't really the "good guys" here, but that doesn't mean the Helghast are. You have the ISA which are just regular dickheads and not total bad guys (still jerks though), and then you have the Helghast which are giant, "gold penis statue from Minecraft" dickheads who are 100% pure bad-guy. And THAT is all things you will learn if you truly pay attention to the story.
http://www.killzone.com/kz/storyline.psml Good stuff, check it out sometime. And remember to play the games again and pay attention, you can see that the Helghast aren't even close to being good guys or being pitiable.
Well, they didn't actually win by setting off the nuke, so it wasn't actually a pyrrhic victory. It was pretty much just plain ol' "epic fail" [http://www.ipandora.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/epic_fail.jpg].Mumorpuger said:
OK, I could et not knowing the first quote, but the 'That which does not kill me' thing is freaking super famous. Then again, just because you know the saying doesn't mean you know where it came from. Of course, I've always prefered the variation "That whcih does not kill me won't get a second chance."
I suspect in keeping with the team's truly incredible originality that this is the origin:mjc0961 said:Two Hitlers? I only ever saw one Hitler. To be honest though, my focus was on the guy with the really goofy 'stache...
The one on the left in this pic. What the hell is going on with that facial hair, Helghast dude?!Ghengis John said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_I,_German_Emperor
Seriously, seriously. If they put one of those "real persons living or dead" "real events" unintentional messages on this thing they would be bold faced liars. I really hope they didn't.
"How about a Mussolini as well?"
"No. We don't want to dillute the concept."
The video is amazing because at first it looks like someone played Modern Warfare and didn't get it, but when you look into it it looks like someone played it, got it, and just didn't give a shit.
"No. We don't want to dillute the concept."
The video is amazing because at first it looks like someone played Modern Warfare and didn't get it, but when you look into it it looks like someone played it, got it, and just didn't give a shit.
Taking a Nietzschean approach to a moral choice system would be rather strange. The system would just be whatever you wanted it to be, with the whole revaluation-of-values thing.i7omahawki said:Good to see Nietzsche getting some love here. I think this may be the first time I've seen someone reference Nietzsche in some way that is accurate.ReiverCorrupter said:Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche. I know it's a pain to spell, it's polish. And he wasn't a nihilist. In fact, pretty much all of his writings are geared towards defeating nihilism. He didn't believe in objective values, but rather that we create values through our wills. It's complicated. He's a really witty writer, I suggest you read one of his works when you get a chance. "Twilight of the Idols" and "The Antichrist" are both short and thought provoking.Abedeus said:Nitz... Nitsche... The nihilist guy?ReiverCorrupter said:Lol. That's rather ironic considering he's German. I'll give you one last hint. He's probably most famous for saying "God is dead." Though people often misinterpret what he means by this.Abedeus said:I have no idea who said it. Because I don't have English History or History in English.ReiverCorrupter said:Well since we're ranting about education, perhaps one of you could tell me who I'm paraphrasing:Abedeus said:Yeah, the whole "take over half the continent and enslave several countries and pretend it's saving them" was totally neutral.Eico said:Firstly: There is no good in war. Period.Misho- said:But Stalin was one of the good guys in WW2... Oh wait right... Communism equals eveel so it's okay then. Why not throw Castro in there too?Ghengis John said:I try to tell people "This series is just world war II, in space." Then they rage at me about how it's not and it's an all original story line that's so inventive and if I just played it and appreciated it and loved it and wanted to marry it like they did maybe I'd finally see that I was wrong all along and...
No.
What? Do they not teach history in school anymore? Why can't these kids see this? Every time I run into these guys I have to pull out wikipedia and educate them myself. Now it's fine to love you some world war two in space. Just you know, be willing to admit it's world war two in space.
Second: Russia was neutral in the war. The only reason they were considered allies is because they were fighting back the Germans. Who, you know, invaded them. Russia couldn't care less about the rest of us at that point.
Neutral would be leaving Poland after getting rid of Nazis. Not staying for picnic for almost 35 years. And then making everyone love their picnic, and kill en masse anything that said picnic wasn't nice or the bees were stinging them.
"It's not the cause that justifies the war, but the war that justifies the cause"
I'll give you a hint, it's the same guy who said, "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
I could google it, but if you are too lazy, I am as well.
Seriously, we don't learn about what people SAY in school. And I don't learn every single quote in all languages I know.
Would be nice if someone like Nietzsche was more influential in games and such, his view of going 'beyond good and evil' could make the whole 'moral choice' mechanic much more fun. Plus his perspectivism and concept of the overhuman (and eternal recurrence, AND will to power) would make great gameplay elements.
Throw a resurrected Nietzsche into this game and I may be interested.
As far as the other principles go, I'd say eternal recurrence kinda already applies to FPS multiplayer. You keep doing it over and over and over again. Plus the will to power is in pretty much every game ever. Certainly in every RPG, where the entire point is to become more powerful. Just goes to show you that he was right.
As to the moral choice system, precisely, games should be exploring more freeform choices, in fact, moral choices should be done away with altogether (especially when the game itself takes a view on your actions).ReiverCorrupter said:
Just the whole framework of gaming seems to suggest a somewhat Nietzschean viewpoint. Being the central driving force into a work of art (though they may not be yet) gives unparalleled potentional in involving the gamer.
A personal struggle is what games are all about, I think your point on FPS multiplayer does apply just as well to will-to-power; rules, tactics and team strategy pulling together to dominate.
Who knows, maybe "Thus Played Zarathustra" shall come out sometime
But both of those characters actually of some semblance of humanity left in them.Logic 0 said:
No, what they need is someone like my dear friend Judge Death
Ahh that's better....
With the catch phrase "the crime is life, the sentence is death" we need not fear some poor soul misunderstanding that this is our antagonist. Because we all know that subtly is simply overrated.
It also works out quite well because the Helghast are all sorta dead now...
See, the ground work is already in place
The great irony is that death is one of the most likable characters in the Dreddverse.hippo24 said:But both of those characters actually of some semblance of humanity left in them.Logic 0 said:
No, what they need is someone like my dear friend Judge Death
Ahh that's better....
With the catch phrase "the crime is life, the sentence is death" we need not fear some poor soul misunderstanding that this is our antagonist. Because we all know that subtly is simply overrated.
It also works out quite well because the Helghast are all sorta dead now...
See, the ground work is already in place
:3Madara XIII said:RobCoxxy said:
Huzzah for someone who payed attention to the story
You sir are awesome.
Still got the bad feeling it's going to end horribly for them. Haven't played Killzone 3 yet.... but in American games, the enemy (even if they aren't the 'bad guys') never win.
I agree with your World War 2 in Space style argument, but you tried to use Wikipedia as a credible source to educate people? *Facepalm*Ghengis John said:
As for the thread: Too evil, too cliche. Whenever I write stories or fanfiction and such, I try to make my villains be regular people with corrupted visions, ideals, or the such. Not super-evil that it's obvious, but you can tell deep down they have some sort of insanity that plagues them that they try to combat against, leading to struggles and changes of personality.
Enough: "I am Evil. You, shall die."
More: "I think I'm a good person... right?"
At the end of the first extra solar war (read: world war 1), Earth's ISA forces (the allies) had crushed the rogue colony (Country) of Helghan(Germany).
The victory did not bring peace, but instead brought humiliation, hardships, and bitter resentment.
Driven by the vision of scholar Visari (Adolf Hitler), the population of Helghan (Germany) transformed from a defeated nation into a military super power.
They would become humanity's greatest threat.
They called themselves the Helghast (Nazis).
Hmm, wow Carter.. you may be right, they are bad writers, or at the very least very unoriginal.
The victory did not bring peace, but instead brought humiliation, hardships, and bitter resentment.
Driven by the vision of scholar Visari (Adolf Hitler), the population of Helghan (Germany) transformed from a defeated nation into a military super power.
They would become humanity's greatest threat.
They called themselves the Helghast (Nazis).
Hmm, wow Carter.. you may be right, they are bad writers, or at the very least very unoriginal.