Critical Miss: Evil, Evidently

[Zolem]

OK, I could et not knowing the first quote, but the 'That which does not kill me' thing is freaking super famous. Then again, just because you know the saying doesn't mean you know where it came from. Of course, I've always prefered the variation "That whcih does not kill me won't get a second chance."

 

[Ghengis John]

Two Hitlers? I only ever saw one Hitler. To be honest though, my focus was on the guy with the really goofy 'stache...

The one on the left in this pic. What the hell is going on with that facial hair, Helghast dude?!

I suspect in keeping with the team's truly incredible originality that this is the origin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_I,_German_Emperor

Seriously, seriously. If they put one of those "real persons living or dead" "real events" unintentional messages on this thing they would be bold faced liars. I really hope they didn't.

 

[Denamic]

Killzone 3 assumes the player is dumb.

Having played games online for quite a while, I'm sad to say they're not wrong.

 

[The Random One]

"How about a Mussolini as well?"
"No. We don't want to dillute the concept."

The video is amazing because at first it looks like someone played Modern Warfare and didn't get it, but when you look into it it looks like someone played it, got it, and just didn't give a shit.

 

[ryai458]

I read the "history" of Killzone and the helghast actually seem like the good guys.

 

[Ashsaver]

Seriously,the ending of Killzone 3 kinda made me sad.....

Congratulations Sevchenko you've just mass murdered god knows how many men women and children

 

[Logic 0]

The helghast could be more evil if they let dr.doom and darth vader join their ranks.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

I try to tell people "This series is just world war II, in space." Then they rage at me about how it's not and it's an all original story line that's so inventive and if I just played it and appreciated it and loved it and wanted to marry it like they did maybe I'd finally see that I was wrong all along and...

No.

What? Do they not teach history in school anymore? Why can't these kids see this? Every time I run into these guys I have to pull out wikipedia and educate them myself. Now it's fine to love you some world war two in space. Just you know, be willing to admit it's world war two in space.

But Stalin was one of the good guys in WW2... Oh wait right... Communism equals eveel so it's okay then. Why not throw Castro in there too?

Firstly: There is no good in war. Period.

Second: Russia was neutral in the war. The only reason they were considered allies is because they were fighting back the Germans. Who, you know, invaded them. Russia couldn't care less about the rest of us at that point.

Yeah, the whole "take over half the continent and enslave several countries and pretend it's saving them" was totally neutral.

Neutral would be leaving Poland after getting rid of Nazis. Not staying for picnic for almost 35 years. And then making everyone love their picnic, and kill en masse anything that said picnic wasn't nice or the bees were stinging them.

Well since we're ranting about education, perhaps one of you could tell me who I'm paraphrasing:

"It's not the cause that justifies the war, but the war that justifies the cause"

I'll give you a hint, it's the same guy who said, "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."

I have no idea who said it. Because I don't have English History or History in English.

I could google it, but if you are too lazy, I am as well.

Lol. That's rather ironic considering he's German. I'll give you one last hint. He's probably most famous for saying "God is dead." Though people often misinterpret what he means by this.

Nitz... Nitsche... The nihilist guy?

Seriously, we don't learn about what people SAY in school. And I don't learn every single quote in all languages I know.

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche. I know it's a pain to spell, it's polish. And he wasn't a nihilist. In fact, pretty much all of his writings are geared towards defeating nihilism. He didn't believe in objective values, but rather that we create values through our wills. It's complicated. He's a really witty writer, I suggest you read one of his works when you get a chance. "Twilight of the Idols" and "The Antichrist" are both short and thought provoking.

Good to see Nietzsche getting some love here. I think this may be the first time I've seen someone reference Nietzsche in some way that is accurate.

Would be nice if someone like Nietzsche was more influential in games and such, his view of going 'beyond good and evil' could make the whole 'moral choice' mechanic much more fun. Plus his perspectivism and concept of the overhuman (and eternal recurrence, AND will to power) would make great gameplay elements.

Throw a resurrected Nietzsche into this game and I may be interested.

Taking a Nietzschean approach to a moral choice system would be rather strange. The system would just be whatever you wanted it to be, with the whole revaluation-of-values thing.

As far as the other principles go, I'd say eternal recurrence kinda already applies to FPS multiplayer. You keep doing it over and over and over again. Plus the will to power is in pretty much every game ever. Certainly in every RPG, where the entire point is to become more powerful. Just goes to show you that he was right.

 

[i7omahawki]

snip

Taking a Nietzschean approach to a moral choice system would be rather strange. The system would just be whatever you wanted it to be, with the whole revaluation-of-values thing.

As far as the other principles go, I'd say eternal recurrence kinda already applies to FPS multiplayer. You keep doing it over and over and over again. Plus the will to power is in pretty much every game ever. Certainly in every RPG, where the entire point is to become more powerful. Just goes to show you that he was right.

As to the moral choice system, precisely, games should be exploring more freeform choices, in fact, moral choices should be done away with altogether (especially when the game itself takes a view on your actions).

Just the whole framework of gaming seems to suggest a somewhat Nietzschean viewpoint. Being the central driving force into a work of art (though they may not be yet) gives unparalleled potentional in involving the gamer.

A personal struggle is what games are all about, I think your point on FPS multiplayer does apply just as well to will-to-power; rules, tactics and team strategy pulling together to dominate.

Who knows, maybe "Thus Played Zarathustra" shall come out sometime

 

[hippo24]

The helghast could be more evil if they let dr.doom and darth vader join their ranks.

But both of those characters actually of some semblance of humanity left in them.
No, what they need is someone like my dear friend Judge Death

Ahh that's better....

With the catch phrase "the crime is life, the sentence is death" we need not fear some poor soul misunderstanding that this is our antagonist. Because we all know that subtly is simply overrated.

It also works out quite well because the Helghast are all sorta dead now...
See, the ground work is already in place

 

[The Wooster]

The helghast could be more evil if they let dr.doom and darth vader join their ranks.

But both of those characters actually of some semblance of humanity left in them.
No, what they need is someone like my dear friend Judge Death

Ahh that's better....

With the catch phrase "the crime is life, the sentence is death" we need not fear some poor soul misunderstanding that this is our antagonist. Because we all know that subtly is simply overrated.

It also works out quite well because the Helghast are all sorta dead now...
See, the ground work is already in place

The great irony is that death is one of the most likable characters in the Dreddverse.

 

[RobCoxxy]

I still feel sorry for the Helghan.

Exiled to a radioactive, inhospitable planet? Forced to adapt, evolve, survive?

And then invaded by space-yanks.

Bad times.

Huzzah for someone who payed attention to the story

You sir are awesome.

:3

Still got the bad feeling it's going to end horribly for them. Haven't played Killzone 3 yet.... but in American games, the enemy (even if they aren't the 'bad guys') never win.

 

[Devil's Due]

Every time I run into these guys I have to pull out wikipedia and educate them myself.

I agree with your World War 2 in Space style argument, but you tried to use Wikipedia as a credible source to educate people? *Facepalm*

As for the thread: Too evil, too cliche. Whenever I write stories or fanfiction and such, I try to make my villains be regular people with corrupted visions, ideals, or the such. Not super-evil that it's obvious, but you can tell deep down they have some sort of insanity that plagues them that they try to combat against, leading to struggles and changes of personality.

Enough: "I am Evil. You, shall die."

More: "I think I'm a good person... right?"

 

[Centrophy]

At the end of the first extra solar war (read: world war 1), Earth's ISA forces (the allies) had crushed the rogue colony (Country) of Helghan(Germany).

The victory did not bring peace, but instead brought humiliation, hardships, and bitter resentment.

Driven by the vision of scholar Visari (Adolf Hitler), the population of Helghan (Germany) transformed from a defeated nation into a military super power.

They would become humanity's greatest threat.

They called themselves the Helghast (Nazis).

Hmm, wow Carter.. you may be right, they are bad writers, or at the very least very unoriginal.

 

[GeorgW]

And yet, I find myself rooting for them...

 

[Jumplion]

Yeah, Guerrilla Games do go a bit overboard with their allusions, metaphors, and clear cut "WWII in SPACE!" analogy in the Killzone games. I doubt they'd know what "subtly" is if it hit them square in the face. It's still a good game, I think anyway, and I do find the whole situation fascinating in how it's presented and shown regardless of where it was ripped from.

 

[Ghengis John]

Every time I run into these guys I have to pull out wikipedia and educate them myself.

I agree with your World War 2 in Space style argument, but you tried to use Wikipedia as a credible source to educate people? *Facepalm*

It's not like I'm shooting for university level accreditation. Besides, what matters is they get the gist of things quickly. I could tell them to go check out a book from their local library, but I doubt contentious kids will go through the trouble.

 

[hippo24]

. I doubt they'd know what "subtly" is if it hit them square in the face.

This is possibly the 5rd or 6th best sentence I've ever read.

Being hit in the face with subtly...it's like you crammed a metaphor into a paradox, loaded it into an analogy, and shot it as an insult. Seriously, I don't know if it was intentional but someone needs to hand you an award(or at least a printable certificate).

 

[Jumplion]

. I doubt they'd know what "subtly" is if it hit them square in the face.

This is possibly the 5rd or 6th best sentence I've ever read.

Being hit in the face with subtly...it's like you crammed a metaphor into a paradox, loaded it into an analogy, and shot it as an insult. Seriously, I don't know if it was intentional but someone needs to hand you an award(or at least a printable certificate).

I dunno, I thought that was a common expression? Like "You wouldn't know [whatever it is] even if it [something it does]!"

 

[TheAmazingHobo]

. I doubt they'd know what "subtly" is if it hit them square in the face.

This is possibly the 5rd or 6th best sentence I've ever read.

Being hit in the face with subtly...it's like you crammed a metaphor into a paradox, loaded it into an analogy, and shot it as an insult. Seriously, I don't know if it was intentional but someone needs to hand you an award(or at least a printable certificate).

I dunno, I thought that was a common expression? Like "You wouldn't know [whatever it is] even if it [something it does]!"

Yes it is.
But some people wouldn´t know a common expression if it was explicitly pointed out to them on the internet! (We are so bloody meta, I´m about half a sentence away from pointing out how meta this is).

But anyway.
I think Killzone is hilarious.
Yes, they made the enemy look and act like space nazis, but the first time my mate explained the plot of the game to me, I had no idea who to root for.
I then read up on the timeline off the games, and I still have no idea who to root for.

I think we have a rare case of total, unintended, idiot-plot-induced moral ambiguity.
Good times.