Do you include the delivery fee in with the tip?
- Thread starter WeepingAngels
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Sweden does not have a tipping culture. Shit's already expensive enough as it is, this being one of the most expensive countries in the world. On the other hand, we don't have any jobs where you need tips to survive, as minimum wage is a thing and is enough to comfortably live on, even including luxuries. You'll never need multiple jobs or anything like that, unless you're living way beyond your means.
Actually, I've never even seen a pizzeria offering delivery, or any other food place for that matter, at least not around my parts. Everyone just goes to the place to pick it up themselves.
Actually, I've never even seen a pizzeria offering delivery, or any other food place for that matter, at least not around my parts. Everyone just goes to the place to pick it up themselves.
I've never understood why you have to tip for pizza delivery especially at places with delivery fees.
You talk about delivery drivers as if they are a charity. "Why not just give $2?" I'll tell you why, because the delivery fee was already included in the bill.michael87cn said:
Agreed. I remember working retail and how awful that was, so ten years on I still remember those times and keep in mind what others who are still in retail are dealing with. Of course, working standard shop retail meant I would not get a tip (not here in the UK and more than likely a person at Wal-Mart or other such US store would ever be tipped) but those who work in bars, restaurants, coffee shops and such that are on shift work in horrible conditions with awful customers that expect the best attitude from the staff regardless? Yes, those shift workers get tipped to no less than 50p (I see no reason to tip more than that for a £2 drink and it's rare I'd go beyond that).michael87cn said:
Additionally, some here who are from/still reside in the UK like to boast about the minimum wage. Yes, that is a thing. What is also a thing is having a living wage, which is not the same thing - someone could be working less than 16 hours a week, on a dreaded zero-hour contract and possibly circumstances that we customers will never know...of course, that doesn't mean any of us should just tip by default (it does have to be earned) but if the service is good and/or if the server goes the extra mile? I'll slip some coins their way.
EDIT: Just to say that I am aware of the fact that US restaurant workers face horrific working conditions, often having to work whilst unwell with all kinds of illnesses/afflictions and that they could easily be paid $15 an hour without any loss whatsoever to the business. It won't happen of course, especially with those who would vote against their own best interests or regurgitate Republican talking points, but if I - as an Englishman - am aware of such things and find such reprehensible...well, I think we all know where I'm going with that and that would be for another sub-forum entirely.
End of edit.
I understand your approach here, it is very considerate but it's also where we would have to part ways. I wouldn't tip those delivering parcels or post (and nor would they expect such), so why would I tip takeaway delivery people? The insulting thing here, as others have pointed out, is the presumption that the worker in question is entitled to a tip (regardless of the quality of their service). Unless the weather was awful (think heavy rain, ice or snow) and the pizza delivery person still managed to get to my home 15 minutes either way of the delivery time I was given? If there was change or it was something daft like £10.50, I'd give £11 (£10 plus two 50p coins) and tell them to keep the extra for themselves *or* if I gave £15 and gotten change, give 50p back out of appreciation for the dire circumstances.
Should a person not like that/expect more for a tip, I offer this UK proverb: getting something is better than a kick in the teeth.
No I do not. The delivery is an extra service. You pay extra because they are bringing it to your house and you don't have to go out. Not much else to say really, it seems kind of obvious to me.
*blink* Wait... THOSE kind of fees EXIST?!
OT: In terms of tipping in general, in regards to ordering delivered pizza, I usually end up rounding the total I hear on the phone to the nearest [next] tenth... For example, there's this one pizza place (the name escapes me right now) that's not that far away from me... I rarely order from there, since it would be quicker (and cheaper) to just go to the Little Ceasers down my street and pick up a $5 pizza... HOWEVER, if I'm in the mood for "something different", in terms of how I want my pepperoni pizza, I would call up that other pizza place, place an order (usually using some kind of special coupon), and them give the pizza guy $20 in total, despite the price being about 25% less than what I needed to pay anyway...
I mean, it first started out as just being too lazy to give away exact change at the door, but then again, it's now how I tip in general, only in reference to delivered pizza, though...
OT: In terms of tipping in general, in regards to ordering delivered pizza, I usually end up rounding the total I hear on the phone to the nearest [next] tenth... For example, there's this one pizza place (the name escapes me right now) that's not that far away from me... I rarely order from there, since it would be quicker (and cheaper) to just go to the Little Ceasers down my street and pick up a $5 pizza... HOWEVER, if I'm in the mood for "something different", in terms of how I want my pepperoni pizza, I would call up that other pizza place, place an order (usually using some kind of special coupon), and them give the pizza guy $20 in total, despite the price being about 25% less than what I needed to pay anyway...
I mean, it first started out as just being too lazy to give away exact change at the door, but then again, it's now how I tip in general, only in reference to delivered pizza, though...
...and you are charged a fee that is named "Delivery fee" that is included on the bill. Why should we pay the delivery fee twice?RedDeadFred said:
In response to the OP, the delivery fee is not connected to the tip in any way. Others have pointed this out. As a general rule a delivery fee indicates that the person doing the deliveries is using a company car, as opposed to their own vehicle, the delivery fee is to cover gas, insurance, wear and tear on the vehicle, etc... or at least that's the idea. All of those things cumulatively can be expensive and at say $1.75 a run you'll probably come close to expenses
at the end of the year assuming you put all that money away. Of course volume of business is also a factor.
As far as tipping in general, I think the situation a lot of employees find themselves in blows chips, but at the end of the day depriving some waiter/waitress of her tips is just going to put less much needed money in her hands, it's not going to teach the guys running the business anything, and especially in this economy it's not like everyone has the luxury of just heading out to find another job where your treated better, some people can't find work at all. I was kind of lucky in being able to retire on social security and get something (as well as having a family to live with) when I was forced out of employment.
Of course to every rule there is an exception, I find it somewhat annoying to go to certain regular businesses where your being served over a counter (Subway, Cold Stone Ice Cream, etc...) and see a tip jar, which is rare, but it does happen. Likewise whether I tip or not at something like a buffet depends largely on whether the wait staff is doing anything. Basically if the wait staff just points me to a table and collects the money, and I serve myself, I don't
feel obliged to leave much of a tip if any because they aren't waiting on me, I'm waiting on myself. Basically I
believe in tipping when an actual service is rendered, and I think some places have tried to abuse the idea, of course this is all a matter of opinion, and even for me it's highly subjective, coming down to what the person is doing.
To answer the question as to why someone would work for less than minimum wage, it's situational. At a high end establishment with a large tab, tips can easily come to hundreds or even thousands of dollars a night. If your in a popular, expensive, resteraunt with long waiting lists where you routinely get groups of 8-9 people in gatherings and thousand dollar bills, a couple of of groups a night can be a big windfall just at 20%, and sometimes you get rich dudes who are even more generous. Just getting your foot in the door in a place like that as a waiter or waitress can be tricky, but your potentially looking at big bucks. Likewise certain bars and clubs can amount to the same thing, though in those cases it will oftentimes come down to volume, if your in a place where rich people show up to down top shelf liquor, and guys will do things like buy $25,000 bottles to show off your again looking at some really big bucks.
How much the waitresses got paid at the casinos where I worked could be an issue, as could what territory they were assigned to (and pre-existing agreements for some of them as to where they were hired to work) and there were a few different arrangements. To be blunt on numerous occasions I've watched people playing at high roller tables tip thousands of dollars to the wait staff, that doesn't happen every night, but chances are if you work there every night it WILL happen and that's in addition to your normal tips.
Of course I can also say that some of the nastiest altercations I've had to defuse were between employees over territory, or due to policies where in say a resteraunt a waitress is expected to split tips evenly with the busboys (or bartenders with bar backs) which inevitably leads to someone trying to hold back a big tip, oftentimes complicated by a patron who say gives a bartender a $5000 token and then gets irritated when he realizes $2500 of it goes to some guy he hasn't really even seen much of, instead of the guy he's been chatting with on and off all night.
In short it depends on the location, and how reliable the money is, there are places people will literally beg to serve at without being paid. Of course these places aren't your local Hooters or Neighborhood diner/café. Owners who treat low or mid scale establishments like they are some kind of posh club at it's height, or a five star dining establishment tend to just be jerks. In most places the wait staff need at least minimum wage in combination with those tips, but sadly, that isn't how it always works out, and I believe there are actually laws that allow owners to not have to pay the regular wages to service based employees. I haven't researched it, but it can apparently be a mess from what some of the liquor commission guys I've chatted with have said, bars in particular apparently attract sleazebag owners for a reason.
at the end of the year assuming you put all that money away. Of course volume of business is also a factor.
As far as tipping in general, I think the situation a lot of employees find themselves in blows chips, but at the end of the day depriving some waiter/waitress of her tips is just going to put less much needed money in her hands, it's not going to teach the guys running the business anything, and especially in this economy it's not like everyone has the luxury of just heading out to find another job where your treated better, some people can't find work at all. I was kind of lucky in being able to retire on social security and get something (as well as having a family to live with) when I was forced out of employment.
Of course to every rule there is an exception, I find it somewhat annoying to go to certain regular businesses where your being served over a counter (Subway, Cold Stone Ice Cream, etc...) and see a tip jar, which is rare, but it does happen. Likewise whether I tip or not at something like a buffet depends largely on whether the wait staff is doing anything. Basically if the wait staff just points me to a table and collects the money, and I serve myself, I don't
feel obliged to leave much of a tip if any because they aren't waiting on me, I'm waiting on myself. Basically I
believe in tipping when an actual service is rendered, and I think some places have tried to abuse the idea, of course this is all a matter of opinion, and even for me it's highly subjective, coming down to what the person is doing.
To answer the question as to why someone would work for less than minimum wage, it's situational. At a high end establishment with a large tab, tips can easily come to hundreds or even thousands of dollars a night. If your in a popular, expensive, resteraunt with long waiting lists where you routinely get groups of 8-9 people in gatherings and thousand dollar bills, a couple of of groups a night can be a big windfall just at 20%, and sometimes you get rich dudes who are even more generous. Just getting your foot in the door in a place like that as a waiter or waitress can be tricky, but your potentially looking at big bucks. Likewise certain bars and clubs can amount to the same thing, though in those cases it will oftentimes come down to volume, if your in a place where rich people show up to down top shelf liquor, and guys will do things like buy $25,000 bottles to show off your again looking at some really big bucks.
How much the waitresses got paid at the casinos where I worked could be an issue, as could what territory they were assigned to (and pre-existing agreements for some of them as to where they were hired to work) and there were a few different arrangements. To be blunt on numerous occasions I've watched people playing at high roller tables tip thousands of dollars to the wait staff, that doesn't happen every night, but chances are if you work there every night it WILL happen and that's in addition to your normal tips.
Of course I can also say that some of the nastiest altercations I've had to defuse were between employees over territory, or due to policies where in say a resteraunt a waitress is expected to split tips evenly with the busboys (or bartenders with bar backs) which inevitably leads to someone trying to hold back a big tip, oftentimes complicated by a patron who say gives a bartender a $5000 token and then gets irritated when he realizes $2500 of it goes to some guy he hasn't really even seen much of, instead of the guy he's been chatting with on and off all night.
In short it depends on the location, and how reliable the money is, there are places people will literally beg to serve at without being paid. Of course these places aren't your local Hooters or Neighborhood diner/café. Owners who treat low or mid scale establishments like they are some kind of posh club at it's height, or a five star dining establishment tend to just be jerks. In most places the wait staff need at least minimum wage in combination with those tips, but sadly, that isn't how it always works out, and I believe there are actually laws that allow owners to not have to pay the regular wages to service based employees. I haven't researched it, but it can apparently be a mess from what some of the liquor commission guys I've chatted with have said, bars in particular apparently attract sleazebag owners for a reason.
Right, but having to pay part of that "free" chunk wouldn't make a company change its policies to paying the full chunk (with fair minimum wage).Houseman said:
It's an impossible and absurd goal. Why should be there a stigma against what is essentially giving charity? And I don't see how this helps the actual victims of tipped minimum wage policies (the waiters and drivers).
What, that's it? You'd go through this whole ordeal just so the people who enjoy the luxury of delivery don't have to pay a few extra dollars? I thought your movement was somehow supposed to help protect the actual victims (the workers) from abuse.
I almost always tip but I don't feel obligated to tip and no one will tell me I HAVE to tip. I leave what I can afford. On the very rare chance I don't tip it is almost always because of crappy service, and honestly it takes a lot to annoy me so if I didn't tip, they deserved it.
Of course I do. I just find the analogy to be stupid, as to make an effective analogy, the two different situations ought to at least be of comparable severity. Comparing pizza delivery to slavery is so disproportionate that it's ludicrous. I mean, holy crap dude. Why not go for Godwin and through Nazism in there while you're-Houseman said:
...
Oooookaaayyyy then.
Accepted.
...or not. I mentioned before that I still make minimum wage. Didn't I say that I make minimum wage?
Ah, finally some honesty!
See, I don't really care if you tip or not. Sure, it's a nice thing to do for the guy that just drove your food to your house, and it's kinda sucky to not give him anything for that. But pretending that you're doing it for his sake as a sort of "fight the system for the little people" when the only people that are being screwed are the little people is pretty damned insulting. But hey, now you're owning up to the fact that it's really for yourself, which is what I was shooting for all along. Great. Now we can move past that and go on to your plan.
So...your plan is to first stiff the driver on the tip, then hand them a card for their boss complaining about tip culture, and expect them to deliver it for you?
Yeah, already seeing a couple problems with that.
First of all, we're not your mailmen. We're responsible for your pizza delivery order, not for delivering those messages. If someone hands me a card explaining why he shouldn't tip and asks me to deliver to my boss for them, then they'd better at least give me a couple bucks for an additional delivery charge. Otherwise, that card's going in the trash. And if he keeps giving them to me, I'm going to collect them all, stick them in an envelope, and mail them back.
"But we'll be helping them receive a decent wage!"
That's nice. But seeing how that's not going to happen overnight, maybe actually giving them a tip along with the card will make the drivers actually get on board with your plan, and help them cover the costs in the meantime. Change doesn't happen overnight.
You're too kind.
Guilty as charged. We all are, on one wheel or another. But this cog likes his wheels and doesn't feel like delivering your mail for you.
Oh, and reading through your posts about revolutions and needs of the many and whatnot, something's occurred to me. You went on and on about how some jobs may be lost and how I may end up as collateral but that's all in the service of the greater good of not having to tip (which you don't have to anyway. And by the by, I've worked delivery for three and a half years and have seen a lot of stiffs. And yet, I've never messed with anyone's orders, and neither have anyone I worked with. The worse regular stiffers can expect from me and my coworkers is that my smile with be a little strained. So...from whence comes this great and oppressive terror?)...but what exactly are you risking? What are you putting on the line here for your big revolution? Because I see this as being zero risk for you, ton of risk for us. And that's the reason why I'm not standing with you or delivering your little messages. You're not fighting for us, and you expect us to shoulder all the cost. Keep. Your. Cards.
Yeah, I'm gonna let Dean Ambrose answer this for me.
Thank you Dean.
But hey, I've thought of a good compromise! Instead of stiffing the driver and expecting him to deliver your letters for you, why don't you order your pizza for carryout, go pick it up yourself, ask to see the owner (because nothing else will work, as general managers are just as much a poor, little cog as the drivers are) and give it to them yourself? That way, everyone wins! The driver doesn't have their time wasted on a stiffed delivery, you get your pizza without the gripping fear of what will happen to you if you don't tip, and the card is guaranteed to go to it's intended recipient.
The place I work for is actually pretty expensive, so I can definitely understand people's hesitation when they're told the cost...which sucks. Personally, I wouldn't pay more than ten bucks for a pizza, but it's upwards of 18-25 (including fee) for a single large here. Granted, it's all hand made, quality stuff, that genuinely tastes pretty damned good...but still. I'm a 5-10 dollar pizza guy myself.michael87cn said:
That said:
I am a delivery driver for a relatively small, but reputable chain in the Chicago area.
I do not make an hourly wage.
I am paid the $2.50 from the delivery fee, plus $1.20 to help cover gas. Now, Papa Johns, which I worked at for a good 6 months prior to getting this job, paid differently. They paid drivers 5.00/hr while they were driving and 7.25/hr while they were working in the store and delivery fees went to said store. Not the driver.
I understand, what with the costs involved, people's hesitation to tip.
Due to our location and the lack of delivery options in the area, however, I do not understand people who get me to drive the 5-10 miles to their home, then proceed to give me a quarter. It kinda sucks.
It's you folk's money and it truly is your business what you do with it. I do not expect to be tipped because if I did, I'd just be setting myself up for unnecessary stress/disappointment in my fellow man. I like to treat it like a nice potential bonus so that that way, I can only ever be happy about it when it does happen.
I am quite glad to report that most folks do tip in the $2-5 range with a few consistent 10s, for some blessed reason. Contrary to what some others in the thread have insinuated, I do not and will not demean myself by harming the customer's food or taking longer than is necessary to deliver said food on the basis of tip potential. I don't want cold or shitty food, so why the hell would I do it to someone else? I don't know their financial situation and its their prerogative.
The way I see it, they're already being petty enough for the both of us, and, frankly, I don't need nor want the additional hassle.
Must...resist...urge...to...further...derail...thread with a rant about bullshitting food operators who "keep prices down" with the tipping protocol when the money is still coming from the guest's pocket anyway.
Shit.
I tip a bit for delivery. Not in a percentage but a couple of bucks for the effort of driving it out to me. Delivery fees do not go to the drivers. They are usually contracted by the business from outside and are drawing an hourly wage that barely covers gas.
Shit.
I tip a bit for delivery. Not in a percentage but a couple of bucks for the effort of driving it out to me. Delivery fees do not go to the drivers. They are usually contracted by the business from outside and are drawing an hourly wage that barely covers gas.
You're not, you're paying the delivery fee and the tip. The delivery fee isn't for the employees in most cases. It's just the restaurant covering the gas and vehicle expenses while making some extra money for themselves. I don't usually tip the delivery people all that much though since it's not like they're checking on me throughout my meal and seeing if I need anything else.WeepingAngels said:
My position basically boils down to some sort of hippie-"everyone has a bit of a point"-bullshit, i.e:
The tip is for rewarding the services of the person that served you, the delivery fee is (in most cases, at least) cover the additional costs in gas, insurance, etc, not the service of the person doing the delivery. That means if you are the kind of person who tips at the actual restaurant (and don't have any qualms about spending more money, which I can certainly understand) it'd be somewhat disingenuous to do so when you're having pizza delivered to your home.
That said, I still think it's a pretty screwed up system to rely on your customers' charity so that your employees can get a fair wage, however, I don't think not tipping is going to change that anytime soon and other ways, like voting for different political parties or boycotting enterprises not paying fair wages have better chances to achieve that.
The tip is for rewarding the services of the person that served you, the delivery fee is (in most cases, at least) cover the additional costs in gas, insurance, etc, not the service of the person doing the delivery. That means if you are the kind of person who tips at the actual restaurant (and don't have any qualms about spending more money, which I can certainly understand) it'd be somewhat disingenuous to do so when you're having pizza delivered to your home.
That said, I still think it's a pretty screwed up system to rely on your customers' charity so that your employees can get a fair wage, however, I don't think not tipping is going to change that anytime soon and other ways, like voting for different political parties or boycotting enterprises not paying fair wages have better chances to achieve that.
Before they added on a delivery fee, I considered the tip to be the service fee for delivering. Friendly service is the job of anyone working with the public and I don't consider that to be an "extra" else I would be tipping the Wal Mart clerk too.RedDeadFred said:
As the customer, I don't care how the fee is divided up amongst the store and the employees. Do you care how much of your Big Mac money is going towards the clerk or closer to home, do you care how much of your pizza money is going to the cook and how much is going to the store? I'll bet not but for drivers it's supposedly different but not all delivery drivers, just those who deliver pizza. It's not consistent at all.