Dragon Age: Inquistion - Can Bioware Survive Another Misstep?

[CloudAtlas]

I'm not saying that at all.I'm saying that you can't put stock in review scores to determine if a game is good, I look at the reaction of the people who have played the game in question to see if it's good or not.If 80% say the game sucks then I will be wary of buying it until the price goes down,if the majority say it's awesome then I will feel confident about the game.

However sometimes you get mixed reactions and so you have to dig a little deeper to see if the the game is good or bad.

Also most major reviews have exhibited biases towards developers who advertise their games on the websites for a while now so their opinions are tainted.I only trust independant reviwers but even then I won't buy a game just because they say it's good,I would see what other gamers' opinions are before I make a purchase.

I've learned to ignore user reviews. They're simply useless. User score of 8.6 for ME2, but 4.8 for ME3 on metacritic, with hundreds of 0/1 point reviews, what a joke.

 

[CloudAtlas]

I doubt that they can make it any worse than DA 2 was. The game will do well in sales like most of Bioware's games and they will continue making games, because companies don't close over people whining on the internet.

You call it whining I call it criticism.

A lot what people are doing here and elsewhere hardly qualifies as criticsm.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

You call it whining I call it criticism.

"Criticism" is hardly the word I'd apply when individuals nail themselves to crosses to heap invective upon the company, proclaim a sense of betrayal or disrespect, and prophesize with a sense of deep self-satisfaction their downfall, all while deciding what is to be done with all that ill will and distrust is to...not pre-order their next game.

Not buy it used or on sale, not refuse to buy it at all, just not pre-order it.

 

[kasperbbs]

I doubt that they can make it any worse than DA 2 was. The game will do well in sales like most of Bioware's games and they will continue making games, because companies don't close over people whining on the internet.

You call it whining I call it criticism.

You might be right, in some cases anyway. I have read too much nonsense on these forums to still call it criticism. Some poeple just love to hate.

 

[Sheo_Dagana]

My only real beef with BioWare is Dragon Age 2. I've loved all of their other games and I'm currently subscribed to SW:TOR. I think they'll be just fine, but pitchfork wielding fans might disagree with me.

 

[CloudAtlas]

I doubt that they can make it any worse than DA 2 was. The game will do well in sales like most of Bioware's games and they will continue making games, because companies don't close over people whining on the internet.

You call it whining I call it criticism.

A lot what people are doing here and elsewhere hardly qualifies as criticsm.

I've seen people give reasonable criticism that often gets dismissed as whining by the fanboys,so if people have to make their opinions more loud then that's why.

Well, anyone who claims ME3 or DA2 are objectively flawless games is just as stupid as those who think there's nothing good about them at all.

 

[CloudAtlas]

You call it whining I call it criticism.

"Criticism" is hardly the word I'd apply when individuals nail themselves to crosses to heap invective upon the company, proclaim a sense of betrayal or disrespect, and prophesize with a sense of deep self-satisfaction their downfall, all while deciding what is to be done with all that ill will and distrust is to...not pre-order their next game.

Not buy it used or on sale, not refuse to buy it at all, just not pre-order it.

That's just fanboys/fangirls being...well fanboys/fangirls.There are still reasonable people who give their criticisms in a mature and civil manner.

Yes, there are, but many have left the realm of reason long behind them too.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

That's just fanboys/fangirls being...well fanboys/fangirls.There are still reasonable people who give their criticisms in a mature and civil manner.

Those people are also the silent (by comparison) minority. Who, might I add, are excoriated just as much if not greater than the company's unabashed sycophants.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

They've brought back multiple player races, so I'm happy for the moment. ME2 and DA2 are still more egregious to me than ME3 (which made it up to me with it's high quality DLC), so they've bought back a little bit of trust with me.

Regardless, they're owned by EA now, and that giant black demon will eventually eat them whole and excrete the remains into a barrel of litigious toxic waste, so it hardly matters. I just hope they can stay afloat and out of range of that terrible gaping maw for awhile, yet.

 

[jackinmydaniels]

It certainly won't be the game that ruins the company. Dragon Age Inquisition will be another shoddy half backed action/rpg hybrid that's flawed in comparison to it's much better predecessor, just like ME 3 was, it'll suck, but I doubt it'll raise anywhere near as much of a stink as ME 3 did, just because it'll probably have a halfway decent conclusion.

Honestly, the majority of my issues with 3 have nothing to do with the ending, and nobody seems to care about any of those issues, so I'll likely see it again, which means I won't be taking part in it this time.

I won't be buying it, Bioware isn't 'dead' in a literal sense, but they're dead to me.

 

[EternallyBored]

Even if DA3 screws up somewhere along the line, I imagine Bioware still has too much inertia for that to be their death knell. If it does fail for some reason though, Bioware will likely be seeing cutbacks from it's owner EA.


When EA bought Bioware, they were preparing to make the company a leading brand name for EA to publish a number of titles under, from RTS to mobile gaming, Bioware was originally intended to be one of the crown jewels in EA's lineup. It's somewhat telling that EA has rescinded its name changes of other studios that they were tacking the Bioware name onto, and have basically halted plans to make Bioware a centerpiece of their collection. Likely, EA is wary at this point and is waiting to see how things change before they commit to making Bioware a flagship studio ala EA sports or shunting its production solely into Bioware core titles (which will likely end up with EA forcing Bioware to make another Mass Effect game). If it gets bad enough EA may attempt to rename the studio or lay off staff, forcing Bioware to work on a limited production budget.

People forget that critical acclaim and financial success take a backseat to meeting financial predictions and sales expectations set by the publisher. ToR was a decent MMO and sold pretty well, but its massive budget caused it's sales and retention rates to fall well short of company predictions. For anyone that followed the sales for ME3, after the ending controversy started the sales of ME3 dropped fast and EA admitted that the sales of the game post launch were short of their expectations. ME3 did still sell well though, so I doubt EA is looking for it's shotgun just yet, but two games in a row being unable to meet demands set by the publisher means they are probably going to adjust their expectations downward in the future, meaning that Bioware gets less of the EA money pie. They certainly aren't going to let Bioware develop another MMO anytime soon.

Could DA3 be the end of Bioware? I doubt it, but it could be the point where Bioware is no longer seen as the juggernaut of western RPGs that it once was. Of course, if DA3 sells phenomenally then it's also possible that EA will once again go ahead with its plans to make Bioware the center of many of its future production products. They could end up like Westwood, once being pretty much the premier RTS maker, eventually shut down after dropping sales over time, or they could end up like the Sims developers, shunted into a niche perhaps, but EA is still willing to pump time and money into new titles from them. In some hypothetical best case scenario they could even turn it all around and sell massive amounts of copies, where EA will restart its plans to make Bioware an entire division unto itself. It's really all speculation at this point. While I don't think its a lynchpin, DA3 will likely set the tone for Bioware going forward in the future.

 

[P.Tsunami]

DA2 had solid sales despite being critically panned, for a BioWare game, which meant it "only" received lukewarm reviews.

I don't think I agree with DA2 having "solid" sales, all things considered. It failed to reach DA:O in sales by a wide margin, which must be considered a disappointment. Relatively to being the sequel to a popular RPG, DA2 was no success.

 

[EternallyBored]

DA2 had solid sales despite being critically panned, for a BioWare game, which meant it "only" received lukewarm reviews.

I don't think I agree with DA2 having "solid" sales, all things considered. It failed to reach DA:O in sales by a wide margin, which must be considered a disappointment. Relatively to being the sequel to a popular RPG, DA2 was no success.

DA2 was the start of ominous things for Bioware after EA bought them out. DA2 indeed fell short of sales expectations, which was likely mostly EA's fault since DA2 had one of the shortest development times in Bioware history, and yet EA still banked on DA2 selling much more than DA:O just based on name recognition of the first one. ToR is still likely the biggest screwup in EA's eyes, but DA2 is what woke them up that they couldn't enforce ludicrous deadlines and still expect massive sales when it comes to RPGs.

Luckily, they seem to be putting that lesson into practice with DA3, whether it will be enough will be seen at launch.

 

[Raikas]

Who said I didn't like DA2?I actually love it but when people bash DA:O and claim it's cliche while DA2 isn't, well I usually point out the many cliches in DA2 like it's characters.

When people say that DA:O had a clichéd plot it generally means that "raise the army/slay the dragon" has been done to death in a way that "rise to power, but be powerless in the face of history" has not. That's it - characters and gameplay and world-building and the rest are separate items (although I will say that the characters in DA2 did have more development moments that surprised me, so even if they were standards in terms of type, I think it's debatable whether or not they were other terms), so pointing out any of that in response to a discussion of plot elements is changing the topic of the conversation.

For what it's worth, I enjoyed both games and thought each had different strong points and different weaknesses. Commenting on the weaknesses of one is not bashing it, it's just an observation.

 

[Raikas]

The longer dev times were almost certainly for the Xbone and PS4 ports.

Probably, but they're clearly using it for other things as well since they have it. The devs had stated repeatedly in the past that there would be no race selection, but now it's back on the table. Sure, maybe they were being misleading before, but that's not the impression that most of the comments they're giving over on the BSN would suggest.

Combined with the fact that they're throwing out Witch Hunt entirely along with the God Baby plotline(Apparently having her sleep with a Grey Warden outside of Ferelden and then hunting down and slaughtering a sleeping Archdemon would have been too difficult of a plotline to come up with) and DA:I is looking pretty shitty for a Bioware game.

If went with that alternate plotline, can't you imagine the fanrage from people who went with the ultimate sacrifice ending? I imagine that they'd be the ones predicting a "pretty shitty" result in that case. Regardless, all that means is that certain items won't be part of the main story, but that tells us nothing about what will be or how good it will be. Fair enough if that means it's not a story you're interested in, but the fact that it looks uninteresting to you is not the same as saying it looks objectively like crap.

I have no idea how good or bad the game is because it's still a year out and we've hardly been given any information - it's impossible to assume the worst or the best at this point because we just don't know yet.

 

[RJ 17]

Maybe the three near-ruinous outings they've had will have taught them something and they'll hit DA:I completely out of the park. But if we're to err on the side of caution and say they do fail again - you think Bioware will still be around this time next year? Or will EA finally jettison them after sending they finances and shareholders into a panic for the 3rd time while making EA look like the devil (again)?

You seem to be assuming that just because there was a very vocal outcry against games like DA2 and ME3 that they were disasters...that's not really true. In reality there's just as many people that thought that DA2 and ME3 were great games, and it's not just Bioware fan-boys either. Just because the nay-sayers were shouting with the loudest voice doesn't mean that they represented the majority of people that bought those games - which were commercial successes, I might add.

So yes, I think that Bioware will be fine. Though I can promise you that just like with ME3 and DA2, the "vocal nay-sayers" will be out in full force regardless of how good DA3 turns out to be. It could be the greatest game in the history of RPGs and there's still going to be people raging about it. The threads have already started (this one, for example) which are trying to shoot down the game before it even comes out, and I promise you this site's forum will be swamped with anti-Bioware and anti-DA3 threads as soon as the game comes out and for weeks to follow.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

DA:O and ME:1 were the last BW games I really enjoyed
sure DA:2 and ME:2/3 sold well. But they were seriously not for me, felt far to generic. but i think thats enough to keep EA happy. its all about £$£$£$£$

thing that stung the most, between ME:1 and ME:2, they lost that 80's scifi vibe they seemed to have going on. such a shame, because I f#cking loved it

 

[Billy D Williams]

Its nice to know that well over a year after release we can all find creative ways to spark the exact same discussion about how much we hated the ending of Mass Effect 3.

Anyhow, 90% of the time when gamers talk about not buying product X, Y or Z because of reason A, B or C its bull. Sure, a lot of people might stop buying Bioware games (and I'm sure some people already have) but I don't think Bioware is going anywhere. What I do know is that most of the backlash they have been getting has been way overblown, to the point in where its a genuinely disturbing to me. I mean were all entitled to our opinions but the amount of entitlement/anger that some people have in the gaming community (not saying any names or calling out any groups or individuals) is truly sad sometimes. Nothing wrong with having an opinion, just with using it as justification for killing CEOs and assaulting peoples mothers.

At the end of the day, if DA:I is a great game I think people will finally start to get over the whole Bioware hatred bug that has been going around and if it sucks a lot of people are going to say they wont be buying the next Bioware product and will buy it anyways.

 

[RJ 17]

Maybe the three near-ruinous outings they've had will have taught them something and they'll hit DA:I completely out of the park. But if we're to err on the side of caution and say they do fail again - you think Bioware will still be around this time next year? Or will EA finally jettison them after sending they finances and shareholders into a panic for the 3rd time while making EA look like the devil (again)?

You seem to be assuming that just because there was a very vocal outcry against games like DA2 and ME3 that they were disasters...that's not really true. In reality there's just as many people that thought that DA2 and ME3 were great games, and it's not just Bioware fan-boys either. Just because the nay-sayers were shouting with the loudest voice doesn't mean that they represented the majority of people that bought those games - which were commercial successes, I might add.

So yes, I think that Bioware will be fine. Though I can promise you that just like with ME3 and DA2, the "vocal nay-sayers" will be out in full force regardless of how good DA3 turns out to be. It could be the greatest game in the history of RPGs and there's still going to be people raging about it. The threads have already started (this one, for example) which are trying to shoot down the game before it even comes out, and I promise you this site's forum will be swamped with anti-Bioware and anti-DA3 threads as soon as the game comes out and for weeks to follow.

Can you show some stats since you seem to be using the vocal minority card?How do you know the majority liked DA2 or ME3?Did you talk to every single person who bought the games to get their opinion?Just because they were commercial successes means jack shit because of marketing and pre order sales.

No, I haven't spoken with every player that played those games...have you? Can't I just as easily say that you're under the assumption that the vocal minority isn't the case? I do know this: I've talked to a large number of people (including on this site) that said both those games weren't nearly as bad as a lot of people made them out to be.

So yeah, if you wanna say "Gimme some stats", then I'll ask you to do the same: show me the stats that say "The vast majority of players that played DA2 and ME3 hated them."

 

[RJ 17]

I'm not the one who made assumptions without proof,you did and so the onus is on you to prove your claim that people that liked DA2/ME3 were the majority.Unlike some people I don't presume to speak for everybody else,I only speak for myself and so I don't pull the majority/minority card unless there are statistics that prove it.

Check my response again:

In reality there's just as many people that thought that DA2 and ME3 were great games, and it's not just Bioware fan-boys either. Just because the nay-sayers were shouting with the loudest voice doesn't mean that they represented the majority of people that bought those games - which were commercial successes, I might add.

I never said "the majority of people liked it", I said "there's just as many people that thought that DA2 and ME3 were great games." How can I say this? Because of the mixed responses that I have gotten. I haven't read through this entire thread, but I'd imagine it's a mixed bag in these comments as well. So no, I can't prove the majority of people liked it, nor did I say that the ones that didn't like it were a vocal minority, but rather that they where the ones shouting the loudest.

I'd suggest reading someone's post a bit more carefully the next time you feel like trying to jump all over their comment.

Edit: And the bit about being commercial successes doesn't go towards people liking them, I didn't mean it to. However it applied more to the topic at hand of "Will Bioware survive?" As long as their games keep selling, they will.