Duke Nukem Train Wreck Trashes Take-Two

Nazrel

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Madara said:
49 on the Xbox 360 and 57 on the PC and PlayStation 3. That's "unmitigated disaster" territory right there.
... No its not. 50/100 = Average. A disaster would have been like 20-30. People really need to learn how to use the 10/100 score point system properly.
But yeah, LA, Noir was never gonna sell exceptionally well and Duke was always gonna be a disappointment. Maybe they need to get some more realistic analysts.
The people who don't use the 10/100 system properly are the reviewers, it's a 50 to 100 system now days, with 50/100 = shit.

That said stock price really means nothing, and I fully expect that Take-Two were expecting Duke Nukem to be panned in the reviews.

It's an internet meme however, "The game that took forever", and I think they're expecting sell on morbid curiosity alone.
 

Azaraxzealot

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Susan Arendt said:
I think anyone pretending that the levels of PC and console game piracy are anywhere close to each other is being disingenuous, but that said, I don't think that releasing LA Noire on PC would have ultimately hurt Take Two. There likely would've been piracy, yes, but there also would've been sales.

LA Noire is a flawed game, but some of its core elements deserve to be built upon. I hope the lukewarm sales don't discourage further exploration into its mechanics.
MaxwellEdison said:
Azaraxzealot said:
looks like they'll be getting bought out by EA or Activision after all.

Say hello to GTA milking!

sunami88 said:
Auxiliary said:
They should have brought LA Noire to the PC as well. Point and click adventures are right up our alley.
Seconded. I really want to play this game, but I'm between consoles at the moment...
then they would have had piracy making sales even worse. great.
What the hell are you talking about?
Sorry, I'm just tired of this comment as being used to act like PC gamers shouldn't get games. Piracy cannot decrease sales. The two options you mention go like this-
1. Don't release on PC. Get no add to sales.
2. Release on PC, which obviously means rampant piracy (facepalm.) Even if only one person didn't pirate it for PC, that's an *added* amount of sales.
It was wrong to assume releasing a game on the PC automatically hurts sales, but like Susan stated, its wrong to assume there is no divide between the piracy rates on consoles and the piracy rates on PC

people shouldn't be surprised that developers are taking focus off pc when even the slightest insult to pc gamers automatically make people have the attitude that they will pirate the game out of some misguided feeling that they're "protesting" which only further encourages AAA developers to shy away from PC-centric development. it's a vicious cycle.
 

Spencer Petersen

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Azaraxzealot said:
looks like they'll be getting bought out by EA or Activision after all.

Say hello to GTA milking!

sunami88 said:
Auxiliary said:
They should have brought LA Noire to the PC as well. Point and click adventures are right up our alley.
Seconded. I really want to play this game, but I'm between consoles at the moment...
then they would have had piracy making sales even worse. great.
unless piracy results in negative sales i doubt it would have hurt the profits.
 

Azaraxzealot

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Spencer Petersen said:
Azaraxzealot said:
looks like they'll be getting bought out by EA or Activision after all.

Say hello to GTA milking!

sunami88 said:
Auxiliary said:
They should have brought LA Noire to the PC as well. Point and click adventures are right up our alley.
Seconded. I really want to play this game, but I'm between consoles at the moment...
then they would have had piracy making sales even worse. great.
unless piracy results in negative sales i doubt it would have hurt the profits.
well it costs money to port a game to the PC right?
it takes time, effort, and the work of people that need to be paid to put the game on the PC in working condition.

if there are not enough sales to surpass the money expended on the development of the port, then they DO lose money, and that's where piracy hurts and why it's safer to develop for consoles since there is significantly less piracy there.
 

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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Madara said:
No its not. 50/100 = Average. A disaster would have been like 20-30. People really need to learn how to use the 10/100 score point system properly,
Yeah, no. You're either being disingenuous or you haven't actually read a game review in the past 15 years or so. Anyone who thinks that game reviewers actually use a 1-100 scale when scoring games is seriously deluded, and a 50-ish rating on Metacritic, particularly for a triple-A release like DNF, is absolutely and unarguably an unmitigated disaster.
 

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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Piracy isn't particularly relevant to the argument. LA Noire may have a long tail but it was never likely to approach the scale of GTA, or even RDR. I also question the decision to keep it out of the hands of PC gamers, and the notion that people who would otherwise pirate a game on the PC will happily run out and buy it if it's only available on consoles.

As for DNF, it sounds like just a balls-out fuckup. Randy Pitchford talked the talk about really "getting" the game because of his time at 3D Realms but it's pretty clear that either he's not calling the design shots or he's just full of shit. I've been shouting from the rooftops since long before the game launched that what made Duke Nukem 3D great was not swearing and dick jokes and schoolgirl blowjobs; it was an imaginative arsenal, brilliant level design and truckloads of innovations. DN3D was one of the finest shooter experiences ever, that just happened to feature a character originally designed as a cheap, throwaway parody of 80s and 90s action heroes.

Somehow, Gearbox got that formula backwards. The focus was entirely on Duke the character - or, more to the point, Gearbox's interpretation of the character, which I think was almost entirely off-base anyway - while the actual gameplay was by all reports sorely neglected. As far as I'm concerned, the reviews are simply the final proof that Gearbox and 2K simply did not get it - and now 2K is paying the price.
 

BlindChance

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Sep 8, 2009
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I'll need to wait for the final sales numbers to be sure but... I'm betting this is completely backwards.

While LA Noire is a critically well received game (not a darling, but relatively well received) it sold disappointingly. While Duke Nukem Forever has been savaged, I've yet to see any evidence it hasn't sold like gangbusters. (Feel free to correct me, I'd be delighted if I was wrong.) The latter quality (sales) is what should matter to investors, and frankly, I cannot see that Duke has been a sales failure.
 

AsurasFinest

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Oct 26, 2010
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The only reason why the share value went down is ebcause of the bad reviews
The sales for Duke will no doubt make up for it
Kinda similar to homefront, shareholders panic about bad reviews and don't actually wait to see the sales, causing the stock to go down
 

Drakmeire

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Wait, does Duke didn't sell well?
Does this mean that it might be a collector's item in the future like ummm... EVERY OTHER GAME THAT DIDN'T SELL.
I'm surprised that not many people took a risk on Duke, I bought it and sure it's pretty crappy and makes me feel empty inside but it almost feels important just for existing. Kinda like owning an iron maiden, sure it looks awful in you room and makes everything depressing but it's a piece of history nonetheless
 

MaxwellEdison

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Azaraxzealot said:
Susan Arendt said:
I think anyone pretending that the levels of PC and console game piracy are anywhere close to each other is being disingenuous, but that said, I don't think that releasing LA Noire on PC would have ultimately hurt Take Two. There likely would've been piracy, yes, but there also would've been sales.

LA Noire is a flawed game, but some of its core elements deserve to be built upon. I hope the lukewarm sales don't discourage further exploration into its mechanics.
MaxwellEdison said:
Azaraxzealot said:
looks like they'll be getting bought out by EA or Activision after all.

Say hello to GTA milking!

sunami88 said:
Auxiliary said:
They should have brought LA Noire to the PC as well. Point and click adventures are right up our alley.
Seconded. I really want to play this game, but I'm between consoles at the moment...
then they would have had piracy making sales even worse. great.
What the hell are you talking about?
Sorry, I'm just tired of this comment as being used to act like PC gamers shouldn't get games. Piracy cannot decrease sales. The two options you mention go like this-
1. Don't release on PC. Get no add to sales.
2. Release on PC, which obviously means rampant piracy (facepalm.) Even if only one person didn't pirate it for PC, that's an *added* amount of sales.
It was wrong to assume releasing a game on the PC automatically hurts sales, but like Susan stated, its wrong to assume there is no divide between the piracy rates on consoles and the piracy rates on PC

people shouldn't be surprised that developers are taking focus off pc when even the slightest insult to pc gamers automatically make people have the attitude that they will pirate the game out of some misguided feeling that they're "protesting" which only further encourages AAA developers to shy away from PC-centric development. it's a vicious cycle.
I never said there wasn't a divide. But the easiest way to fix the vicious cycle is to start trusting and helping PC gamers - many people on the internet have suggested methods of preventing piracy without shitting on honest customers.
 

Vault boy Eddie

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They shoulda just taken DNF out back, built a gallows and hung it by the dick. The only way this game was gonna be a success was if it came with a fellatio/cunnilingus machine for the players to enjoy instead of a game that was thrown together last minute after it had changed a million times over for over a decade.
 

aaronmcc

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Damn LA Noire was the game I bought on release day in a long time. Was even gonna get Duke Nukem until the reviews totally destroyed it.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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Jan 23, 2011
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Andy Chalk said:
Madara said:
No its not. 50/100 = Average. A disaster would have been like 20-30. People really need to learn how to use the 10/100 score point system properly,
Yeah, no. You're either being disingenuous or you haven't actually read a game review in the past 15 years or so. Anyone who thinks that game reviewers actually use a 1-100 scale when scoring games is seriously deluded, and a 50-ish rating on Metacritic, particularly for a triple-A release like DNF, is absolutely and unarguably an unmitigated disaster.
Then fix your system. Seriously, you just admitted that game scores are hopelessly inflated for Triple A titles. You shouldn't be insulting a user for pointing out something that should be the case. Record of Agarest War got scores in the low sixties but was considered an average game. Oh, so triple A titles have to get more than that? Talk about a bias.
It is the industry's fault that this embarrassment started.
 

MrSmallz84

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Jan 12, 2011
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90% LOL nice guess I think it would be a lot lower, I've done both in my time and the XBOX is far more trouble. I think a lot of people come to this for the game stuff and that's all they know about.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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Jan 23, 2011
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Madara said:
Andy Chalk said:
Madara said:
No its not. 50/100 = Average. A disaster would have been like 20-30. People really need to learn how to use the 10/100 score point system properly,
Yeah, no. You're either being disingenuous or you haven't actually read a game review in the past 15 years or so. Anyone who thinks that game reviewers actually use a 1-100 scale when scoring games is seriously deluded, and a 50-ish rating on Metacritic, particularly for a triple-A release like DNF, is absolutely and unarguably an unmitigated disaster.
Yes. I have read a game review within the last 15 years. However I will never support any "reviewer" who uses or supports the 4 point grade system. The 4 point grade system only exists because piss poor reviewers bow down to publisher pressure and thus prove they are not to be trusted.
And anyone who defends a broken system just because "everyone else does it and has for the last 15 years" ensures I will never listen to anything they have to say about anything. Ever.
It is that sort of attitude that allows companies like Kaos (now defunct, wonder why...) to excuse Homefronts half assed, 4 hour solo campaign because "Its what everyone else is doing. [http://www.next-gen.biz/news/kaos-defends-homefront-campaign-length]"
So I guess only good reviewers use the full scale.

So no, 50/100 is average and I say again, people really need to learn how to use the 10/100 point system properly.
I agree, it is embarrassing. I say ditch the 100 point scale to avoid this nonsense.
I personally hold the 5 point scale to be the best.
1-Terrible
2-Bad
3-Average
4-Good
5-Great
To the point and it doesn't give the impression that a perfect score has to be for a perfect game. There is a reason movie reviewers almost universally use it.
 

Revolutionary

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May 30, 2009
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Drakmeire said:
Wait, does Duke didn't sell well?
Does this mean that it might be a collector's item in the future like ummm... EVERY OTHER GAME THAT DIDN'T SELL.
I'm surprised that not many people took a risk on Duke, I bought it and sure it's pretty crappy and makes me feel empty inside but it almost feels important just for existing. Kinda like owning an iron maiden, sure it looks awful in you room and makes everything depressing but it's a piece of history nonetheless
Yeah it didn't sell well. However that's a relative term used in relation to sales figures of successful. I seriously doubt that DNF will become rare and therefore a collectors item especially seeing as it is Duke Nukem forever.
 

GeorgW

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Aug 27, 2010
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I'm actually surprised take 2 has survived this long without getting bought up.
LA Noire is not my kind of game, but I did like DNF [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.291283-Hypnotic-reviews-Duke-Nukem-Forever#11569732] and I bought the Balls of Steel edition, so there's no blame on me!
I think they should be proud of what they sold of LA Noire considering how it's kind of a niche game.
I honestly never thought reviews would have any meaning on DNF's sales, I figured the majority of people would just buy it for teh lulz.