EA CEO: We Failed Well
- Thread starter Logan Westbrook
- Start date
I'm a bit confused as to all the hate on Mass Effect and Dragon Age when it comes to stories.
Sure, they are cliché stories and sure, there are games with better stories.
But with 95% of all games having far worse stories or no stories at all and the very small amount of games with better stories being quite old by now I'm personally glad that there's at least some recent AAA games that do have decent stories for when I feel like it.
In DA and ME I'm at least curious about the Darkspawn and the Reapers. Can't say I care much about the generic space aliens, terrorists and evil wizards most other games feature.
It's not great, it's not the absolute best we have but I still prefer eating at McDonald's over eating out of the garbage.
Sure, they are cliché stories and sure, there are games with better stories.
But with 95% of all games having far worse stories or no stories at all and the very small amount of games with better stories being quite old by now I'm personally glad that there's at least some recent AAA games that do have decent stories for when I feel like it.
In DA and ME I'm at least curious about the Darkspawn and the Reapers. Can't say I care much about the generic space aliens, terrorists and evil wizards most other games feature.
It's not great, it's not the absolute best we have but I still prefer eating at McDonald's over eating out of the garbage.
Again, this is not an opinion, this is fact. Whether or not people enjoyed the game is irrelevant. Mass Effect 2 was a bad sequel and a bad game.MercurySteam said:
They didn't really ruin C&C right away, though. Red Alert 2 was still quite awesome, C&C3 wasn't bad from a gameplay standpoint, and RA3 was still plenty of fun too. No, it was Command and Conquer 4 where EA dropped trousers and took a massive shit all over the place.FenrisDeSolar said:
...Good think there won't be a Mass Effect 4, right?
I've honestly stopped caring about whatever EA says, because it's clear that they seriously don't give a fuck about the industry at this point. Make no mistake about it, this is the same exact EA that we've grown to despise, and any PR crap that they say won't change that. Instead of focusing on quality, they've started to eye the competition further and now they're trying to one-up Activision in almost everything in order to regain their crown of "King Dick of the Games Industry".
Case in point: Medal of Honor.
Case in point: Medal of Honor.
Subpar in what way? Be lucky that it wasn't fucked in the ass like C&C4 was. I personally thought that Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age II were massive improvements over their predecessors, mainly because it didn't feel like you were struggling with the interface or the controls. Yes, I think that kicking the RPG elements like the inventory system and the limited skill trees was utter bullshit, but you know what? It was a better flowing game both in terms of writing and in terms of gameplay than its predecessor was. Don't get me wrong, I loved ME1, but I prefer the second game over it.AndyFromMonday said:
As for Dragon Age, I feel as though that game should've been a PC exclusive, seeing as it played pretty much as a love letter to the old days of RPG games. Playing the console version of Dragon Age and then playing the PC version exhibited how large of a rift there was between those two games, and it should've remained as a PC only game. Dragon Age II in comparison is to Origins what Crysis 2 was to the original Crysis. Two completely different games, but belonging to the same series, and while I understand what it was trying to address, it tried to approach it in the same way it did with Mass Effect 2 and shat all over it. It all struck of trying to push a formula that was tried and true and trying to strain it through ANOTHER formula that was proven tried and true that it ended up becoming uneven and rough around the edges.
Really, don't blame EA, blame Bioware, because this trend is more of a case of them focusing on multiple things at once. That being said, Bioware's going to address the inclusion of RPG elements and all in Mass Effect 3, so hopefully we'll see something that will redeem them. Who knows? Maybe we'll see something in the inevitable Dragon Age III. All I can say is be a bit optimistic. Bioware isn't totally dead.
*Posts black and white picture of a man clapping in a theatre*
Anyone else think EA has read Extra Credit's message?
Anyone else think EA has read Extra Credit's message?
Are you saying that the solution to a mediocre inventory system is to remove it all together? I believe Dragon Age Origins to have very little flaws. The inventory is well designed and not laggy in any way. All armors are listed there and all you have to do is point at them with your mouse in order to get the. I can see how it would be a pain to navigate the menu's using your console controllers but let's face it, Dragon Age: Origins was and will always be a PC game.buy teh haloz said:
Yes, in Mass Effect 1 the inventory was not well designed but the solution is never to remove it. A little bit of work and it would have worked out. There was no need to remove ALL management of your crew in favor of simply changing outfits now and then.
Also, how was it a better flowing game? What "flowed" better? Was it the fact that they removed any sort of consequence to your choices in the game? Was it the story that had to retcon a few of the endings in Origins in order to make sense? Was it the horrible graphics, art design and the way basically everything was designed? Was it the dialog wheel that pretty much removed any ability to form your own, unique character? Please, do tell.
In Mass Effect 2 they did the exact same thing. Environments were almost exactly the same no matter where you went ranging from futurey looking white/orange rooms to caves on planets where you see trees and vegetation in the distance. That's the extent of Mass Effect 2's environments. The writing was good but let's face it, Bioware ALWAYS has good writing. The story on the other hand was horrible and made no sense. The shooting mechanics did improve but at the cost of it being an RPG. Mass Effect 2 is a mediocre game and a horrible sequel. A sequel is supposed to improve already established mechanics. ME2 and for a matter of fact DA2 did not do that.
buy teh haloz said:
It didn't end up rough around the edges. It ended up being covered in shit with piss stains on the ground. It was a horrible game. Still, I agree.
Bioware did not choose to work on so many projects at once. It's EA who decides what games they make and how many they make. They also include the release date. Basically, the relationship between a developer and a publisher works like this:buy teh haloz said:
The publisher gives you a rough idea of what the game should be like, gives you a deadline and then gives the developer X amount of money. That developer is obligated to finish that game during the given time period. This is why Dragon Age 2 felt rushed, because it was rushed. It was EA who rushed it, not Bioware. It's EA's fault Bioware is in this sorry state.
Let's also not forget that they're pretty much removing most of what made Mass Effect an RPG in the past in favor of upgrading the graphics even more, essentially making it a third person shooter. Bioware's decline started the moment they were bought by EA. It was on its deathbed when they released Mass Effect 2 and the final blow was Dragon Age 2. Bioware is dead and will never return to creating the amazing games they did in the past. They're at EA's mercy now and EA will simply milk their franchises for all it's worth and then sell the studio or disband it.
@MercurySteam: My mother always told me: "Never argue with a pig. You'll both get dirty and the pig will love it." This is whyMercurySteam said:
There's no reasoning with people who assume that their opinions enter the world as facts spouted from the mouth of [insert your deity/science here].
EA I don't care how many apologies of failure you give for everything you've done wrong... All i want you to do is take this holy hand grenade... and snuff it.
I originally played Dragon Age: Origins on a console, and I didn't like it one bit. A year later, I tried it for the PC and I did prefer the PC version over the console version. If I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of stories that games had to retcon for their stories to make sense (For example... Warcraft retcons the Alliance ending and Warcraft 2 picks up after the Horde ending), but that's legitimate complaint. If I'm not mistaken, something like that happened in Mass Effect 2, when you talked to Conrad Verner in ME1, don't point a gun at him and tell him to go home (The Paragon option) and then you see him in ME2 saying that you pointed a gun at him.AndyFromMonday said:
To me, what flowed better was how the gameplay fit together for me. I wasn't struggling as much with trying to execute actions and it felt a lot more well rounded and well put together, but yes, I fucking hated the dialog wheel, and yes the graphics did seem a bit more flat in comparison to Dragon Age: Origins. I agree that those are legitimate faults in the game, some that could've been improved better as opposed to outright removing them.
And environments being the same? Buddy, have you played Mass Effect 1? You went to the same two fucking stations/bases a billion fucking times during assignments, and each one more dreary than the next. Case in point: Bring Down the Sky, and the Moon VI mission of ME1. At least ME2 did a better job in terms of trying to create an atmosphere for the environments. Purgatory had a great atmosphere, as did environments like the Collector base or Omega. I'd agree that Dragon Age II has this issue worse.
And I'll agree that Mass Effect 2's story wasn't as well put together, but if there's one thing to give them credit for, it's the characters that you met and recruited throughout the game. Some less than others, but Bioware did an excellent job nonetheless on putting personality into your squad and creating well thought out scenarios like Legion's loyalty mission.
I definitely do see where you're coming from, and you're entitled to your opinion. Personally I feel that ME2 was more of "Two step forwards, two steps back" more than anything, but I had fun with it. Same goes with Dragon Age II. Again, you are entitled to your own opinion.
I agree with the rest of it, but Mirror's Edge and Dead Space are most certainly new IPs EA created/published. It doesn't have to be unique or original to be a new IP (though I would argue that both are to varying degrees).j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
That said, EA itself is basically ruining BioWare, so it seems fairly clear to me that they didn't learn the right lessons. Oh well.
EA has been buying and killing studios since they became a publisher as well as studio. EA started as a game studio back in the day, and started publishing other studios games. then they started buying majority shares in the studios they published for gaining control of them. as well as publishing contracts that gave them control over many aspects of the games. in turn this control gave them the power to ruin the competing studios and make huge amounts of money by forcing them to cut too many corners like rehashing the same games with a different color palette and skins on the same engine, less work done on story and dialouge so they can shovel it out the door as quickly as possible with as small an investment possible. thats how they ruin studios.
The thing is, Dragon Age 2 retconed so much regarding characters from the first game that they make actually playing through the game and importing your save game useless.buy teh haloz said:
They didn't make the graphics flat, they pretty much copy pasted areas over and over. Cities are exactly the same, dungeons are exactly the same, whole fucking zones are just copy paste of one area. This is not something you expect from Bioware. Still, the short development time of 9 months was the reason for this. EA wanted to cash in on the success of Dragon Age: Origins as fast as possible.buy teh haloz said:
I understand how you might have struggled but frankly, I enjoyed the hard and tactical gameplay of Dragon Age: Origins. I'm not the sort of guy to enjoy hard combat since it feels tiresome and boring but what Origins did I enjoyed. It was tactical and it was fun. I enjoyed the hell out of it. Dragon Age 2 moved towards a more action oriented combat system whereas there was no need for tactical positioning. You could stroll through the game not giving a shit about strategy. In fact, that's what I did. Combat felt awesome at first but ended up feeling like a chore in the end.
Actually, it was the exact same thing as in ME2. You had one or two unique environments but even those were reused. Remember the collector ship? The entire layout was basically copy pasted and used in the collector base. Mass Effect 1 had the same problem but you'd think they would fix that in the sequel. They didn't. They just gave everything an orange tint.buy teh haloz said:
The character loyalty and recruitment missions were great but then again those same characters were great in the first game and the most interesting ones, like Garrus got very little screen time and dialog and the same goes for Tali. They tried to focus more on the new ones but apart from Mordin, Legion and Jack they weren't all that well done. It's not that they're not good characters, just not that interesting. The thing is, if they wanted the characters to be the meat of the game they should have done that. Unfortunately everytime you were drawn in by a loyalty mission or a recruitment one they always had to tack in the main plot which, frankly, was absolute shit. I still don't understand why they had to kill Shepard in the first place and put him on a huge pedestal like he's the only hope for the galaxy. In the first game you wanted to get your revenge on Saren and when you uncovered his plot you tried to stop him. This all happened naturally. In the 2nd game however, you're all of the sudden the only hope humanity has. There is no natural progression towards a bigger goal like there was in the first game.buy teh haloz said:
Now in the third game they're basically doing the exact same thing again. For some reason they've also made Ashley and Kaydan look absolutely ridiculous. Why does Ashley have to be like Miranda? In the first game she was a soldier with emotional issues. She was a believable character. In the 3rd game she looks like a fucking Bond girl. Kayda also decided to get a new haircut and look even more like a douchebag. I'm starting to believe Bioware is aiming the game as much as possible to teens. Instead of having a mature story with believable characters that develop as the game progress they choose to go for the T&A approach.
Of course I enjoyed parts of Mass Effect 2 and honestly, I can say the same for Dragon Age 2. In the end they all fell flat on the floor. When you buy a Bioware game, do you honestly expect an amazing action game or an amazing RPG? I guess if I had played those games with a different mentality I'd have liked them more but the thing is those games are sequels to already established great RPG's. It would have made more sense to continue strengthening the RPG parts. Still, even as action games they're not that good. Dragon Age 2 has this facade going on for itself of being a "strategic" RPG by giving you the pause button but even on the highest difficulty it's literally useless since position does not count at all. Then there's the action which isn't particulary good. If you're a mage you just spam flashy spells, if you're a warrior you spam flashy moves and if you're a rogue you pretend you're a warrior with stealth.buy teh haloz said:
The one to blame for all this is EA. EA is cashing in on well established franchises whilst at the same time being dishonest by saying they've "changed". They haven't changed one bit. They're still doing the exact same thing they were doing before only this time they're copying Activision. I'm tired of all the lies and bullshit sorounding the gaming industry. Why can't companies be more honest? Hell, why do we even need publishers? It seems like all publishers do is stagnate the industry. The current business model of most publishers is to buy an established developer, suck it dry then abandon it. EA is doing this, Activision is doing this and so are most of the publishers in the industry.