Eve Online Panel Encourages Harassing Suicidal Player

[SL33TBL1ND]

Sounds like something the Eve player-base would do. The game is built for people who have only the minimal human functions and social-skills. They likely see the death of another player simply as one less person they have to compete with in the game.

That's an incredibly poor generalisation of the Eve playerbase. All of the shit that happens in Eve is just gameplay. We don't harass individual players. We may lie to people, steal and con money out of people, but that's the goal of the game. That doesn't mean any of us would tell someone to kill themselves. This is just a bunch of horrible people that happened to be at a high profile event.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Hell if I played EVE Online I'd be depressed to.

I tried the game for 1 hour and wanted to go get a prescription for prozak.

 

[Strazdas]

Well, I see one CSM member who isn't getting re-elected any time soon.

Actually elections ended soon ad he was reelected.
people crying ingame (regardless of the message) is the fuel for most of the players. the article makes this event out as if it was a bad thing, but infact we were simply laughing how upset some people can get about a useless item ingame.
this whole thing reminds me of how this guy get so pissed over a single ship loss that is worth like few hours of work even for a new player.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9oAGnK9CU

 

[kyp275]

Ah, of course, how silly of me. I just assumed that the multitude of "I've never posted before but now there's then of us posting at the same time honestly I'm not a duplicate account, honestly"-people would try and tone the smug asshole-attitude of EvE-players down.
I've spent the last hour reading up on EvE online forum stuff...And honestly, there seems to be good people in there, but just as many if not more of douchebags beyond any I've met in my time online.

yes, obviously because everyone who came here from Eve's forum to defend the game must be a single guy who's creating a bunch of alt accounts!!!11!!! even if they argued different points and talked in different manners!!!! *psshh, I'm gonna let you in on a secret, you see all the other poster in this thread who've been registered for years and are also eve players? they're also ALL ME!!!!


or it could be because this thread was linked on the eve forum, naturally you'd have people who visits, and some would decide to make their opinions known, but hey, don't let logic stop you or anything, we wouldn't want that to happen.

also, the amount of douchebaggery in this thread seems to be on par with just about every internet forum I've been on, eve's included.

 

[NortherWolf]

yes, obviously because everyone who came here from Eve's forum to defend the game must be a single guy who's creating a bunch of alt accounts!!!11!!!

this thread was linked on the eve forum, naturally you'd have people who visits, and some would decide to make their opinions known, but hey, don't let logic stop you or anything, we wouldn't want that to happen.

also, the amount of douchebaggery in this thread seems to be on par with just about every internet forum I've been on, eve's included.

Ah, members of the Goonswarm then?
Curious, which one of them would you happen to be?

It's only cowards that use the "Well...I acted like a prick...But you can't because then you're worse than me!!!!!!!!!"
I've played MMOs since 2004-2005, and I know that when the game dies down and my PC is shut off...It's a game.
From the EVE forums being a dick is apparently both ingame and out of game...If not, you're just doing it wrong!
Then again, when your Mr Eve says this:

#196 Posted: 2012.03.26 16:02
The Mittani wrote:
It's pretty funny that you have people watching a TV stream who have never been to Fanfest trying to wag their fingers and cluck as if this is Hello Kitty Online. This is EVE, and Fanfest is a drunken, shambolic revel - it always has been, if you've been to one.

I feel as if it's pretty much a lost cause to continue arguing.

Sounds like something the Eve player-base would do. The game is built for people who have only the minimal human functions and social-skills. They likely see the death of another player simply as one less person they have to compete with in the game.

That's an incredibly poor generalisation of the Eve playerbase. All of the shit that happens in Eve is just gameplay. We don't harass individual players. We may lie to people, steal and con money out of people, but that's the goal of the game. That doesn't mean any of us would tell someone to kill themselves. This is just a bunch of horrible people that happened to be at a high profile event.

Here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86213
Go read.

 

[kyp275]

this just keeps getting better and better

Ah, members of the Goonswarm then?
Curious, which one of them would you happen to be?

yes, more baseless assumptions, the only exchange I've ever had with goons are done via laser beams and antimatter charges, but good try.

It's only cowards that use the "Well...I acted like a prick...But you can't because then you're worse than me!!!!!!!!!"
I've played MMOs since 2004-2005, and I know that when the game dies down and my PC is shut off...It's a game.

tsk tsk tsk, wrong again. I've refrained from any sort of ad hominen attacks, something you haven't bothered to do, who's the prick here? or are you still operating under the assumption that every single new account who posted in this thread are all me? lol

and no kidding it's a game, not that it has anything to do with anything I've said.

I feel as if it's pretty much a lost cause to continue arguing.

you can't call it arguing when you're not even making any sensible points.

case in point:

Here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86213
Go read.

is a thread in which people debate the incident much like this thread, so what's your point? a few minutes in 4ch will net stuff that are far more offensive, and 4ch isn't even remotely the worst place on the internet.

 

[BrotherRool]

Remember this is a news article though. We're coming at it from a different perspective, I'm assuming they were taking it as forum troll from a drama queen. Which you know, you do meet that sort of person on forums.

It's probably a good reason never to forum harass or troll to the best of your ability though, because you never know where the other person is actually at

There is also this possibility, that it was just an average nerd rage or drama queen. But encouraging someone to kill his or herself is still really fucked up even if you think you are trolling.

Unfortunately it's already a standard part of some internet culture

 

[NortherWolf]

this just keeps getting better and better

yes, more baseless assumptions, the only exchange I've ever had with goons are done via laser beams and antimatter charges, but good try.

Oh? Could have sworn you sonded like a few in the thread i linked. *shrugs*My apologies then.

tsk tsk tsk, wrong again. I've refrained from any sort of ad hominen attacks, something you haven't bothered to do, who's the prick here? or are you still operating under the assumption that every single new account who posted in this thread are all me? lol

I'm still 50/50 on that. Then again, I remember what happened when Yathzee bashed EvE in his review. So you might well just be one of a group of posters.

and no kidding it's a game, not that it has anything to do with anything I've said.

Ah, indeed. That one I actually take the blame for. Mixed what you said up with what some of the people on the EVE forum said. My bad ^^

you can't call it arguing when you're not even making any sensible points.

Ah, okay. Sensible pointsI hope)
Someone who's the public face of EvE Online should not resort to being a giant douche in public.

Said person should not, when another player on the official EvE forums calls him out on it reply with "~deal with it"

Taunting someone suicidal should not be acceptable, the old BS that you don't want to commit suicide if you mention it has been proven false, so it really isn't a laughing matter.

The fans of the game should not rally behind the bully, but rather point out that "Hey, you represent us. We're not giant assholes. Stop being one!". If they fail that, then it is only logical to assume that said spokesperson really is the face and voice of the community.

case in point:

Here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86213
Go read.

is a thread in which people debate the incident much like this thread, so what's your point? a few minutes in 4ch will net stuff that are far more offensive, and 4ch isn't even remotely the worst place on the internet.

4Chan is also a site dedicated to the fact you can be an anonymous freaky little bugger. WHat they do is so often wrong it's not even funny. But they hide behind the guise of the Internet.
Mr Mittani, mittens or whatever he wants to be called...Don't. He spoke out in public.

 

[Redworld13]

Is there any video footage of this? Just wondering. As bad as this sounds, it does seem like it may have been taken out of context. Disgusting nonetheless but id like to hear the full story.

Sorry disregard my previous post, thats totally fucked up...

 

[kyp275]

.
I'm still 50/50 on that. Then again, I remember what happened when Yathzee bashed EvE in his review. So you might well just be one of a group of posters.

I couldn't care less about what Yathzee's review said, it's his opinion and he's welcome to it.

Ah, okay. Sensible pointsI hope)
Someone who's the public face of EvE Online should not resort to being a giant douche in public.

Said person should not, when another player on the official EvE forums calls him out on it reply with "~deal with it"

TBH, I think for many eve players, the fanfest remains something that's created solely for the consumption of eve players, even though the live broadcast opens the event up to people who wouldn't understand the context of events that occur there. The alliance panel literally is about drunken alliance leaders making lul-presentations to a drunken crowd.

on the "deal with it" comment, mittani's explanation is that he was not aware of what had transpired since he was still in Iceland, and that he simply thought it was just reactions to his presentation slides, so he responded with a typical comment. Whether that is to be believed at face value is up to everyone to decide for themselves. Me personally think mittani is too stupid to have said something like that if he knew just what was happening, /shrug.

Taunting someone suicidal should not be acceptable, the old BS that you don't want to commit suicide if you mention it has been proven false, so it really isn't a laughing matter.

agreed, but then you have to take into context the amount of tear/rage/hate mails that are sent by people every day in eve. If everyone of those were to be taken at face value, I dunno how many police reports people would've had to file over internet spaceship threats. Also, the ganked miner had 22 or 23 accounts, which probably led to the assumption that he was probably a bot runner/rmt, which further invites ridicule.

still, what mittani said did cross the line, and I'm not defending that, all I'm trying to do here is to provide some context.

The fans of the game should not rally behind the bully, but rather point out that "Hey, you represent us. We're not giant assholes. Stop being one!". If they fail that, then it is only logical to assume that said spokesperson really is the face and voice of the community.

people will form their opinions based on what they've seen and read and from their own perspective. Some have accepted mittani's apology and decided that was enough, others think he should still go. Also keep in mind that the political meta-game in eve never stops, and frankly there are no short supply of people in eve who would love to see mittani gone at any cost.

case in point:

4Chan is also a site dedicated to the fact you can be an anonymous freaky little bugger. WHat they do is so often wrong it's not even funny. But they hide behind the guise of the Internet.
Mr Mittani, mittens or whatever he wants to be called...Don't. He spoke out in public.

and that more than anything else is the crux of this whole debacle, he should've been smarter about what to say in public, even if it's at an event for eve players.

 

[Akisa]

Is there any video footage of this? Just wondering. As bad as this sounds, it does seem like it may have been taken out of context. Disgusting nonetheless but id like to hear the full story.

Sorry disregard my previous post, thats totally fucked up...

Yup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Ki91U-mBE&feature=youtu.be&t=1h11m55s

About 1 hour and 6/7 minutes he begins ridicule the person's proposed suicide message. Then at 1 hour and 12 minutes in the video he mentions the guy's account name and clearly states that they should harass him in hopes to commit suicide.

 

[NortherWolf]

I couldn't care less about what Yathzee's review said, it's his opinion and he's welcome to it.

Context, my dear, context.
The reaction was pretty...Extreme back then too.

TBH, I think for many eve players, the fanfest remains something that's created solely for the consumption of eve players, even though the live broadcast opens the event up to people who wouldn't understand the context of events that occur there. The alliance panel literally is about drunken alliance leaders making lul-presentations to a drunken crowd.

WHich, from a poster on page 10 of the thread I linked(I think it was page 10) isn't really what the fanfest should be about as much as what some parts of it have driven it to become.

on the "deal with it" comment, mittani's explanation is that he was not aware of what had transpired since he was still in Iceland, and that he simply thought it was just reactions to his presentation slides, so he responded with a typical comment. Whether that is to be believed at face value is up to everyone to decide for themselves. Me personally think mittani is too stupid to have said something like that if he knew just what was happening, /shrug.

Stupidity or ignorance are not valid claims of defense. Especially not when he's cowering from possible RL-backlash.

agreed, but then you have to take into context the amount of tear/rage/hate mails that are sent by people every day in eve. If everyone of those were to be taken at face value, I dunno how many police reports people would've had to file over internet spaceship threats. Also, the ganked miner had 22 or 23 accounts, which probably led to the assumption that he was probably a bot runner/rmt, which further invites ridicule.

Cyberbullying is of some interest to the Media though, especially the kind that wants to censor the Internet.

still, what mittani said did cross the line, and I'm not defending that, all I'm trying to do here is to provide some context.

Indeed, but there's no excuse for him for doing what he did. Like you said further down, he should have been smarter.

people will form their opinions based on what they've seen and read and from their own perspective. Some have accepted mittani's apology and decided that was enough, others think he should still go. Also keep in mind that the political meta-game in eve never stops, and frankly there are no short supply of people in eve who would love to see mittani gone at any cost.

From what i saw of the man and his guild I don't blame them. I've seen a lot of dicks online but to see a bunch of them that big I'd need to pay money at a fetish-site.

 

[Simalacrum]

Surely that level of harassment is illegal on some level? If it isn't there certainly should be a law against it...

 

[kyp275]

Surely that level of harassment is illegal on some level? If it isn't there certainly should be a law against it...

corpus deliccti my friend, one can't claim to be a victim of bullying if he wasn't even aware of it, or if no actual acts are carried out. The gank/scam was carried out by another goon member back in october, the details of which was then posted in various forum by said member in the following months. Mittani crossed the line when he told others to harass wis, but afaik no one has actually took what he said seriously and actually done anything.

 

[kyp275]

Context, my dear, context.
The reaction was pretty...Extreme back then too.

/shrug, I wouldn't know, tbh I pay little attention to game reviews in general, I'd much rather make the judgement call myself.

WHich, from a poster on page 10 of the thread I linked(I think it was page 10) isn't really what the fanfest should be about as much as what some parts of it have driven it to become.

another /shrug, that's his opinion, though tbh that's how it's always have been as far back as I can remember, heck, there's even an official CCP pubcrawl as part of the event where the devs themselves go out with the attendees to get wasted.

Stupidity or ignorance are not valid claims of defense. Especially not when he's cowering from possible RL-backlash.

fair enough, though I honestly doubt there's going to be any RL backlash over this.

Cyberbullying is of some interest to the Media though, especially the kind that wants to censor the Internet.

don't get me started on the censorships, and IMO they'd find any excuses they can get their hands on, they can probably turn lolcat pictures into an excuse for censorship if they wanted to bad enough.

From what i saw of the man and his guild I don't blame them. I've seen a lot of dicks online but to see a bunch of them that big I'd need to pay money at a fetish-site.

the goons do play and enjoy their unsavory reputation, and tailored it well to eve's harsh universe. That said, I don't actually think the people behind the characters are any worse than your average gamers, I've seen plenty worse in other MMOs, douchebaggery is not an unique trait amongst humans.

 

[Thoric485]

CCP are one of the few developers, and only MMO developer, to give real voice to their players. Shame that one dumb fuck would squander it this way.

Especially in these times, when gaming media is so eager to jump at news of gaming communities being entitled, childish or rude, in order to paint the dominance of capitalistic publishers and closed gaming systems as something good or necessary.

 

[Akisa]

Surely that level of harassment is illegal on some level? If it isn't there certainly should be a law against it...

corpus deliccti my friend, one can't claim to be a victim of bullying if he wasn't even aware of it, or if no actual acts are carried out. The gank/scam was carried out by another goon member back in october, the details of which was then posted in various forum by said member in the following months. Mittani crossed the line when he told others to harass wis, but afaik no one has actually took what he said seriously and actually done anything.

From what I can tell someone has already went to gank him again.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7167/thewis2.png


Also

http://i.imgur.com/BR83Z.png

 

[Akisa]

Surely that level of harassment is illegal on some level? If it isn't there certainly should be a law against it...

corpus deliccti my friend, one can't claim to be a victim of bullying if he wasn't even aware of it, or if no actual acts are carried out. The gank/scam was carried out by another goon member back in october, the details of which was then posted in various forum by said member in the following months. Mittani crossed the line when he told others to harass wis, but afaik no one has actually took what he said seriously and actually done anything.

*Edit*
Double post, I thought I lost my original post when the forum crashed on me.
*/edit*

 

[kyp275]

From what I can tell someone has already went to gank him again.

which is perfectly normal? wardecs and blowing up other people's ship is at the core of Eve's gameplay, and as long as everything is done within the boundary of the game, I see no issue. It'd be like boxers suing each other for assault because they hit each during a boxing match.

and yes, I've seen those chatlogs, and that doesn't really change anything either. The only part where mittani crossed the line is when he called on others to harass wis, everything else was fair game.

Unless someone actually started to send him harassing convos or messages, it's a non-issue.

TBH this whole thing reeks, the alliance panel was on the first day of the fanfest, and nobody cared until the CSM7 election result came out and mittani won chairman again, then all of a sudden people started to go up in arms over this.