Friends Zone (AKA why aren't we doing this?)

[Wuggy]

Ok, as usual there's blame in both parties:

Hey Nice Guys,
When you are putting her on a pedestal, constantly agreeing with her like a drone, devoting all your time for her, doing her all sorts of favors: you're just being submissive. That is not actually what respecting someone as a human being is. What you're doing is making her take you as granted.

You may or may not be the 'perfect guy' for her, I don't know. It also may 'not be fair'. The truth is, reality is rarely fair. So there's two things you can do: Sit there and whine about how you don't get what you deserve or you can adapt to what you actually need to do to get what you deserve.

Here's some advice: Devote your energy to other things. Hell, you can try even meeting new girls. Make her see that she can't take you for granted. Be nice and respectful towards her but don't bend into her every will.


And now to the other party:


Hey Friend Zoning Gals,
When you say that you "can't find any good guys", what you are doing is a glaring double standard: The common denominator with these douchebag dates of yours is you. You pick them, so you don't get to whine about it. Either be consistent or stop saying these stupid things.

And please don't say stuff like "I wish more guys could be like you". I understand that this is meant as a compliment, but it's pretty stupid when you think about it: You know a guy that "is like him", you know.. him. If you aren't meaning this as a way of insuniating interest, don't say it.

Also, be honest. If your friend confesses his feelings for you, don't say things like "I don't want to ruin our friendship" if that's not the actual reason. If you're simply not attracted to him just say it. It's more hurtful to imply that "Well, it COULD be possible if we weren't such good friends".

 

[bad mad]

My friend has asked out the same girl LOADS of times even though she has claimed twice to be a lesbian (surprisingly not an excuse ). some people would say he is desperate, I call it personality. Although his chances of getting the girl are slim, it may be that persistence that catches the unknowing eye of a girl one day that he will finally move on to.

We could stay here talking all day but that isn't gonna get us anywhere fast ^_^
you want the best advice? live for the life you want, the personality and aspirations you desire.

Be a "nice guy/girl", I would much rather die being known for how nice I was than die for something I would regret later...

 

[Carbonic Penguin]

I will say that I do not believe in a friend zone. In fact, in most cases, it is simply used to describe what happens when a guy loves a girl who doesn't love him back as much. Rather than treat it as rejection, guys treat it as the FZ.

I know that sometimes, 2 people simply won't work out at any particular moment. My oldest friend is a girl. We had feelings for each other, definitely, we tried to make something work out about a year into our friendship. It broke down, but that was because she wasn't ready and I respected her distance, and we were still friends - more than friends, I'd say. I'd describe our relationship as similar to a brother/sister kind of love. She moved on, I moved on, we are the better off for it.

And another thing I will note. Almost every single long-lasting relationship I've seen, be it the case I just mentioned that resulted in a similar bonding, or the more conventional boyfriend/girlfriend thing that proves successful - almost every single one of those relationships kicks off about a year after the two of them first meet. And in fact, they know each other fairly well by the time that they decide to bring themselves together. So what I have seen completely contradicts the notion of a FZ, because these actual loves begin with friendship. And that 1 year mark seems to be the magic point - any less and you're starting to gamble, any more and it's not just about love. I'm willing to wager the vast majority of the FZ complaints involve relationships going below the 1 year mark.

Of course, there are exceptions. I asked my current girlfriend out after talking to her for just nine days (about two weeks after I met her). We just... clicked, you know? There was something about her I just trusted... about as close to 'love at first sight' you can realistically get. I wasn't looking for a relationship, just a friendship. But after a week of getting to know each other... we liked each other! So I asked her out, and a year later, everything's been perfect! (Except for about 2 weeks, because I was inexperienced and silly). So, I wouldn't say there are any strict rules for dating, just go out there and meet people... and eventually you'll find someone you'll click with... not because you think she's hot.
Also, I've seen numerous posts how people in the FZ have the crush in question complain to them all the time... My girlfriend does not complain to me much, because she doesn't want me to worry. She shares it between friends, instead of piling it all on one person. But, yeah... I'm not sure what my point there is.

 

[Phasmal]

Dear OP: a woman is not obligated to reciprocate your friendship with sex. Stop acting like she is.

This.

The arrogance of these `nice guys` is sometimes shocking.
Its entirely possible you DONT know what is best for this girl just cause you want to get with her. Sitting around thinking passive-aggressively `Oh, but I'm so nice, why dont you wanna touch me down there, seeing as I'm so nice? And put up with you being a ***** and ignoring the fact that I have decided we are right for each other, completely without your input?` doesnt help.
Also, seeing how quickly a nice-guy will drop you when he realises that you dont wanna get jiggy with him, usually reveals how `nice` he really was.

The friendship offered forward by these guys is often not what it seems. My boyfriend and I started off as friends, and he was a friend who was there for me even when I had a boyfriend at the time and didnt push his feelings onto me.
You can be a friend up to a point then you have to make some sort of gesture showing your feelings, for me that was my boyfriend travelling 500 miles to be with me on my birthday.

 

[JezebelinHell]

People seem to think their are only two types of guys: Cocksuckers and "nice guys". The Cocksuckers should be obvious as to what it is, the asshole that thinks he is the shit. The second is more complicate. Being a "nice guy" and actually being a nice guy are completely different. The "nice guy" is the one that waits on his interest hand and foot, never standing up to her or contradicting her. Then they get in a huff cause their putting her on a pedestal isn't working, and that she would be lucky to have a guy like you. Most of the stories of these guys tends to leave out rather glaring character flaws on the part of the guy, but I won't go into that. I know this cause I used to think like that, then I actually got a girlfriend. Being nice does not mean being submissive and subservient. Treat your love interest as a human being, not as a goddess. (Entering conjecture territory, feel free to correct me, as I only have the male perspective) Most women don't want a servant, they want an equal with whom they can share their life with and all that jazz. Woman don't really think THAT much differently than men. Learned that going to a school that was 75% female. People actually thought I was gay because I went through high school single despite the 75% female thing.

Thank you. I hate it when I am told by men "BUT I'M A 'NICE GUY'! WHY WON'T YOU DAAAAATE MEEEEEEE?"

It's not nice, it's being submissive in the hope that you'll get the carrot you want rather than actually caring about the person and respecting them as a human being.

Argh, yes.

Only, it often tends to be "I'm a nice guy, why don't the stupid bitches worship me?!", and they won't be told they have entitlement issues.

Those guys can become quite scary. I had one that got really creepy in college. I ran into him a few years later, he was married and still bitter about me not dating him. His actions and attitude just kept pointing out to me that I made the right choice. I see the same guy in these threads when they come up. I can't blame the girls, some may be playing games but for the ones that aren't, I feel for them.

I have actually dated my guy friends, including my best friend in college. He did not come out of the friend zone by catering to my every whim, by bugging me to date him, by being good-looking or by listening to me ***** about other relationships. He came out of it because he had a personality and attitude that didn't cause me to question his mental stability along with a great sense of humor. Those same qualities have kept us friends over the years.

Seriously, my advice, if it makes you the least bit bitter to be in the friend zone you need to quit being friends. If you get bitter about it, we can tell and it sets off warning bells. You are better off putting it to rest and moving on.

 

[ThreeWords]

To be honest, I've never seen anyone escape the Friend Zone, I wouldn't mind seeing some stories of people here if they have.

I beat the friend zone. She was one of my closest friends, and I was rather infatuated. It wasn't mutual, so I squished it down and turned it into a more brotherly affection.
Then, shit went down between some of our other friends, one of whom demanded that everyone had to pick a side ("if you're not for me your against me" style scenario). I chose one side, and she chose the other, which tore me up, since the people she chose demanded she couldn't be friends with those I chose.
Few moths down the line, and her people are getting more and more crazy, suddenly hating on random people, and turning towards some nasty walks of life (smoking, heavy drinking, drugs). She gets away while she can, and comes back to be my friend again.
I can only assume that the period of separation allowed the 'friends-only' effect to die back, but that the inherent attraction remains. But I don't pretend to know everything.

 

[AnkaraTheFallen]

Ok, I'd like to say a few things about this.

I will admit I have used the "I don't want to ruin our freindship" things twice.

The first time was genuinely because the person was a good friend and I wanted to keep it that way. Not to toy with him, or be mean as some guys seem to think it is, but just because he was a friend and I truly felt if we went out, it wouldn't work and we'd not talk anymore.
Honestly, I feel I can say, most women who use the "I don't want to ruin our freindship" line, are like this. It's not meant to hurt you guys, we are being honest when we say it.
Or alternatively they may be trying to protect your feelings, it's far easier to say that, than to tell someone that you just don't find them attractive for example. (Yeah, most will say you should just tell them the truth if it's like that, but you try telling a good friend who finds you attractive that you don't find them attractive, because again, you want to still be friends with the person, so again the line is still being honest.)

As for the second time, it was when I'd found I was gay and not willing to come out to people yet, so I used that line to give me another reason. Yeah, I'll probably get the whole "you should have been honest" thing, but frankly, I was terrified about coming out at the time, and I saw no other way to tell the guy I didn't want to go out, short of hurting him.

 

[Whateveralot]

I have a mate that is now in a relationship with someone from the friend zone. It pretty much went like this: She started it, he didn't want it, they had sex, he changed his mind.

There's more to it then that, but it really sparked after that. There's no way back then anyway so there was no reason not to give in. He didn't want it initially because he was just out of another breakup.

 

[feeback06]

But be warned. Make absolutely sure that you want the friendship taken to the next level. Because if it falls apart, it's near impossible to fix.

I hate to say this being a guy, but I've told a girl I would have placed her in the friend zone if she had told me her feelings at the time. And it is for that reason above. The fact of the matter is that relationships DO change things and not always for the better.

 

[DracoSuave]

My friend has asked out the same girl LOADS of times even though she has claimed twice to be a lesbian (surprisingly not an excuse ). some people would say he is desperate, I call it personality. Although his chances of getting the girl are slim, it may be that persistence that catches the unknowing eye of a girl one day that he will finally move on to.

Spoiler: Long comic here

It's not the kind of persistance that women are generally attracted to.

Ok then you write a theory that explains it all.
No I'll wait...
I've found the ladder theory to be the closet written out theory I've seen and it's also comedy.

And once you drop misogynistic 'theories' like that, and stop relying on its principles as a crutch, you'll figure out pretty quickly how wrong it is.

Confirmation bias, dude. You has it.

 

[AnkaraTheFallen]

Have you actually read it?
Basically you're not one of the people she would like to date (probably) so she doesn't want to date you. Also CALM DOWN BRO just because I've been rejected doesn't make me a douchbag. Also where does cosmic power come in to anything I said?

You mean the theory that women have two ladders while men have only one, and that once on a friends ladder the only way to get across is THE ABYSS OF DISPAIR and so-on and so-forth and all that?

Yeah. Read it. It's misogynistic bullshit. Mate selection in humans is a lot more complex than it gives any credit for.

Ok then you write a theory that explains it all.
No I'll wait...
I've found the ladder theory to be the closet written out theory I've seen and it's also comedy.

I'm siding with Draco on this, I've read the ladder theory and it is complete nonsense written by some guy, who frankly seems as if they are desperately clawing to find a reason why they can't find someone who will go out with them.

I don't know any theory that does explain it, and honestly, I don't think you can, the human brain is hugely complex, and we are only beginning to understand some of the basic workings. Also, everyone is different, what I find attractive is different from what others may find attractive. If there was one big theory to solve it, then it would have to be that we are all attracted to the same things in a person. Which just isn't true.

 

[AzureRaven]

Honestly, this debate has too many sides, arguments, and examples to really have a definitive right answer. There are situations where there's blatant BS, and the OP is right on the money, yea.

Of course there are situations where the person is just too dim to pick up on the patterns, and it's completely their fault.

That's the thing, we're dealing with stories and scenarios involving completely different people every single time. Both sides could probably stand to look at the other objectively. And I'm not trying to be above this, believe me. I'm well aware I have my own biases based on personal experience. But basically, it's not as simple as "He's not nice, he just wants sex." or "She's just leading me on." 100% of the time.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

To be honest, I've never seen anyone escape the Friend Zone, I wouldn't mind seeing some stories of people here if they have.

I beat the friend zone. She was one of my closest friends, and I was rather infatuated. It wasn't mutual, so I squished it down and turned it into a more brotherly affection.
Then, shit went down between some of our other friends, one of whom demanded that everyone had to pick a side ("if you're not for me your against me" style scenario). I chose one side, and she chose the other, which tore me up, since the people she chose demanded she couldn't be friends with those I chose.
Few moths down the line, and her people are getting more and more crazy, suddenly hating on random people, and turning towards some nasty walks of life (smoking, heavy drinking, drugs). She gets away while she can, and comes back to be my friend again.
I can only assume that the period of separation allowed the 'friends-only' effect to die back, but that the inherent attraction remains. But I don't pretend to know everything.

Best of a bad situation, I like it.

 

[Bealzibob]

I'm a dude and I've friend zoned chicks. No biggie, get over it and move on like they did.

People don't respond well to you trying to win their affection, thats not how a real relationship works and it never will be.

PS: My worst FZ excuse(I'm in Highschool), "My parents don't like me dating" proceeds to date several people over the next few months. I knew it was a FZ so I didn't mind that she just needed a excuse. But she is clearly a terrible liar xD.

 

[DracoSuave]

To be honest, I've never seen anyone escape the Friend Zone, I wouldn't mind seeing some stories of people here if they have.

I beat the friend zone. She was one of my closest friends, and I was rather infatuated. It wasn't mutual, so I squished it down and turned it into a more brotherly affection.
Then, shit went down between some of our other friends, one of whom demanded that everyone had to pick a side ("if you're not for me your against me" style scenario). I chose one side, and she chose the other, which tore me up, since the people she chose demanded she couldn't be friends with those I chose.
Few moths down the line, and her people are getting more and more crazy, suddenly hating on random people, and turning towards some nasty walks of life (smoking, heavy drinking, drugs). She gets away while she can, and comes back to be my friend again.
I can only assume that the period of separation allowed the 'friends-only' effect to die back, but that the inherent attraction remains. But I don't pretend to know everything.

Best of a bad situation, I like it.

I'll admit I've been in the FZ quite a few times, and I've beaten it a couple. But it wasn't through any effort or anything.

If you're trying to break through the friend zone, it won't work. If you're trying to make something happen where nothing is... it won't work.

Instead... I stopped caring about it. Once I accepted that it was a FZ, and moved on to other, more likely attractions... it stopped being a FZ, and became just friends. Natural-like.

And once it became natural-like... well... things happened. But it wasn't from trying to make it happen. It was just a happy little thing that occured when I wasn't looking. Taoist path of least resistance shit and all that.

In the FZ? Accept it and look elsewhere. Move along, friend, move along. The best way to actually make things happen, is to NOT try to make anything happen. Do not want, for desire leads to suffering. Om.

Now, the friend-zone doesn't bother me. Because... hey. Sometimes shit doesn't work. Whatever. But... girls know other girls. Opportunities continue to knock. That's the way of the world.


PS: SL33t, your avatar makes me want to play FM3 now. DAMNITALL

 

[Zulnam]

Nobody should cry about the FZ, because if you got there, it's your own fault. There are ways to escape it; long, complicated, ways, but before trying that ask yourself truthfully if you are ready to risk your friendship instead of just look for other girls.


Also, to all the ladies that posted here: There is no such thing as a man who wants only sex from a woman, only a woman who has nothing but sex to offer. The people in the FZ clearly wanted more than just "touch me down there". I'm not saying they act properly, I'm saying that their judgement is clouded BECAUSE they want more than sex.

 

[gussy1z]

This is kind of what iv noticed about the FZ. I think people tend to know if they fancy someone pretty quickly, and who you fall for doesn't always make any sense (you might not always like the nicest or most reliable person etc). If its been a couple of weeks without things getting a bit flirty, then welcome to the friend zone.

basically act quick and let the girl know your interested. The FZ thing sucks, i have literally been lead on for years.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

To be honest, I've never seen anyone escape the Friend Zone, I wouldn't mind seeing some stories of people here if they have.

I beat the friend zone. She was one of my closest friends, and I was rather infatuated. It wasn't mutual, so I squished it down and turned it into a more brotherly affection.
Then, shit went down between some of our other friends, one of whom demanded that everyone had to pick a side ("if you're not for me your against me" style scenario). I chose one side, and she chose the other, which tore me up, since the people she chose demanded she couldn't be friends with those I chose.
Few moths down the line, and her people are getting more and more crazy, suddenly hating on random people, and turning towards some nasty walks of life (smoking, heavy drinking, drugs). She gets away while she can, and comes back to be my friend again.
I can only assume that the period of separation allowed the 'friends-only' effect to die back, but that the inherent attraction remains. But I don't pretend to know everything.

Best of a bad situation, I like it.

I'll admit I've been in the FZ quite a few times, and I've beaten it a couple. But it wasn't through any effort or anything.

If you're trying to break through the friend zone, it won't work. If you're trying to make something happen where nothing is... it won't work.

Instead... I stopped caring about it. Once I accepted that it was a FZ, and moved on to other, more likely attractions... it stopped being a FZ, and became just friends. Natural-like.

And once it became natural-like... well... things happened. But it wasn't from trying to make it happen. It was just a happy little thing that occured when I wasn't looking. Taoist path of least resistance shit and all that.

In the FZ? Accept it and look elsewhere. Move along, friend, move along. The best way to actually make things happen, is to NOT try to make anything happen. Do not want, for desire leads to suffering. Om.

Now, the friend-zone doesn't bother me. Because... hey. Sometimes shit doesn't work. Whatever. But... girls know other girls. Opportunities continue to knock. That's the way of the world.


PS: SL33t, your avatar makes me want to play FM3 now. DAMNITALL

That's some real deep stuff there, man. Useful too.

Also, FM3 is on the PSN store, I believe. Go buy it, you can't resist Dennis', Ryogo's and Linny's smiles.

 

[Guffe]

i laugh a little when guys act like only women do this anyway best just friend line
i got was you are more of a wife type you know i can take you home to meet my mom and i ain`t looking for that
me;so you want a ho.
dude: kind of

Damn I laughed!!!
Well at least he was honest?!

I got nothing for the topic thou -.-

 

[Stilkon]

One time I asked a girl out who said she wasn't "ready for a relationship", and would make a "terrible girlfriend". I suppose that was a fair enough excuse.

A few months later, I find out she's a lesbian.