Hobbit Casting Agent Fired For Dismissing Non-White Hobbits

[electric discordian]

Do you mean I could have kicked up a fuss when Samuel L Jackson beat me to the punch for the role of Shaft? I knew I could have done a better job that Morgan Freeman in Invictus as well!

Once again people unsuitable for a role go in for it and then complain because they are turned down! It's not racism it's simple casting, oh and if you want to level the racism gun at Tolkein how about all the Orcs being Black and all the heroes being White apart from Sauruman.

Tolkein never said that all of the Hobbits were white, we just assume that. I think that's the main issue, is that we all just assume that all of his characters were white, when it was never stated.

Its a pretty safe assumption as he was writing in Britain in the 1950's that hotbed of racial diversity! You could have thrown a rock and not hit a Black person and if you did no one would have cared! As we were horrendously racist!

 

[JDKJ]

Do you mean I could have kicked up a fuss when Samuel L Jackson beat me to the punch for the role of Shaft? I knew I could have done a better job that Morgan Freeman in Invictus as well!

Once again people unsuitable for a role go in for it and then complain because they are turned down! It's not racism it's simple casting, oh and if you want to level the racism gun at Tolkein how about all the Orcs being Black and all the heroes being White apart from Sauruman.

Tolkein never said that all of the Hobbits were white, we just assume that. I think that's the main issue, is that we all just assume that all of his characters were white, when it was never stated.

Its a pretty safe assumption as he was writing in Britain in the 1950's that hotbed of racial diversity! You could have thrown a rock and not hit a Black person and if you did no one would have cared! As we were horrendously racist!

And I quote LotR page 4:

"Before the crossing of the mountains the Hobbits had already become divided into three somewhat different breeds: Harfoots, Stoors and Fallohides. The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller and shorter,..."

It's not a safe assumption. Matter of fact, it turns out to be a dumb assumption.

It's about as dumb as suggesting that Britain in the 1950s wasn't racially diverse (at least regarding its larger, more metropolitan cities). Never heard of a West Indian immigrant (who, racially, were for the most part Blacks)? They started appearing in large numbers on the shores of Britain in the late 1940s and by the late 1950s had established entire neighborhoods in which they were the dominant racial group.

 

[JDKJ]

I don't quite remember if any of Tolkien's books specified if Hobbits were all one skin color or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were. And if so I don't see why looking for "light-skinned" people to play Hobbits is wrong. I mean if all the characters are white and they want to stick to the story then they need white actors. I remember watching one of the film versions of Hamlet where there were black actors used throughout. It was a little jarring as the whole thing takes place in Denmark. Last time I checked there weren't that many people of African decent in Denmark. I understand that the actors were cast according to their skill, not their race; but if every other Hobbit is light-skinned and you see one darker-skinned one, that would be pretty odd.

The person was fired to probably make sure that people didn't start accusing the movie or the people in charge of making the movie racist.

Although the fact that only female actors had to be light-skinned to be Hobbits is pretty weird...

And I quote LotR page 4:

"Before the crossing of the mountains the Hobbits had already become divided into three somewhat different breeds: Harfoots, Stoors and Fallohides. The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller and shorter,..."

Surprise!!

 

[wickes666]

just a quick point... hobbits are white... its kinda their thing. this is like how Stephen segal tried to be Genghis Khan, it just doesn't work or make sense, and if anything, is partially insulting to the culture

 

[Mcface]

Now half of the hobbits in the movie will be black.
Watch.

 

[Capslockbroken]

Ok, so it's perfectly acceptable to have a bunch of White guys pass as middle eastern nobility in that Prince of Persia film but a non-white hobbit is somehow completey unacceptable?

Would you listen to yourselves?

Its a freakin fantasy film, SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF IS IMPLIED.

No, white guys as Persians is not perfectly acceptable. I believe several people here made the point that PoP's casting was every bit as silly as considering people of color for roles as hobbits. In movies or theater, looking the part is as essential as acting ability, even more so for extras because they don't really get to act.
Take me, for example. I am a large beige(mid-eastern and white) dude. I am too dark and too tall to play a hobbit. I would not even show up for an audition. I also wouldn't bother to audition for the role of Cleopatra(I'm the right color, wrong gender), Erik the Red(much too dark), Othello(much too light) or Marie Curie(everything).
It's not about it being a fantasy film, it's about staying true to canon. Several important characters in the world of Conan the Barbarian are black, as well as many other races. No one complains about that because that's the way REH originally wrote them and their presence actually makes sense. The Nelwyns in Willow were remarkably multiracial, despite ostensibly all being native to the same small village, but no one complained about that either because Willow was an original screenplay with it's own canon.
The point is, I don't believe this Humphreys person is an aspiring actress at all, I think she's a muckraker.

 

[Faladorian]

What an asshat. You have to look like what youre playing. Did all of the people above the height mark get mad for discrimination? NO! Because hobbits are SHORT and WHITE. This is not racist. If a purple elephant wanted to play Dumbo they wouldnt let him. Is there anything wrong with being purple? No (maybe biologically, but no) but that's not the issue, it's that DUMBO IS NOT PURPLE!

To anybody who saw The Last Airbender: remember how the whole Fire Nation was supposed to be Japanese? ...and they were all Indian? Nothing wrong with Indians, except that the fire nation WASNT FUCKING INDIAN.

 

[Terminal Blue]

You're all missing the point..

If the production team had decided that the hobbits were all going to be white and passed that on to the casting agent, it would have been fine.

What this person did was to make an individual decision based on a personal interpretation of the book/universe and enforced it without the support of anyone else.

It's like if the guy who colourizes the frames decided that middle earth was actually all a bright pink colour and colourized everything pink without telling anyone else.

This person is being fired for making a stupid independent decision, not out of political correctness gone mad or any of that other Daily Mail bullshit.

Or, just as likely, was thrown under the bus as a sacrificial lamb when the shit hit the fan.

Agreed, but they were still fucking stupid.

If a whole production team decides to only cast for white/black people in a given role, that's fine because there's clearly no intent beyond the needs of the movie.

If one person makes that decision on their own they might just be being a massive racist, and no-one can prove otherwise.

At the very least, how long would it have taken to ask someone else instead of just adding shit to the specifications without telling anyone?

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

Ok, so it's perfectly acceptable to have a bunch of White guys pass as middle eastern nobility in that Prince of Persia film but a non-white hobbit is somehow completey unacceptable?

Would you listen to yourselves?

Its a freakin fantasy film, SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF IS IMPLIED.

Ancient Persians actually were white. They migrated into the Iranian Plateau from Eastern Europe. Since the reign of the Sassanid Dynasty which is the setting for the Prince of Persia games and film the area has been conquered by at least 4 different ethnic groups, modern Iran is literally nothing like ancient Persia.

A white actor with a light tan is the best possible fit for a Sassanid Prince. The part should be cast appropriately, not changed to please politically correct drones who did not do the research.

 

[mjc0961]

That doesn't seem racist. I'm reminded of the whole "Why can't there be a black Spider-Man?" thing. And the answer is because Spider-Man isn't black, not because of racism. Spider-Man is white and apparently so are hobbits.

 

[Terminal Blue]

They migrated into the Iranian Plateau from Eastern Europe. Since the reign of the Sassanid Dynasty which is the setting for the Prince of Persia games and film the area has been conquered by at least 4 different ethnic groups, modern Iran is literally nothing like ancient Persia.

No, they migrated into the Iranian Plateau from Central Asia.

You are right however in that they did have very light skin. Light skin is not unique to Europe.

 

[Terminal Blue]

You know I'm pretty surprised at how some have become so incensed about the whole thing. It actually feels like there may be a little closet racism here. I mean if anyone seriously thinks that the world is completely colorblind and ethnic minorities just need to keep their mouths shut and stop making a fuss then I think there's a pretty good chance they're not part of an ethnic minority. Sure, occasionally someone makes a far-fetched claim in the name of PC. Does this mean minorities should stop battling for equal and fair treatment across the board? I should certainly think not.

I would totally understand if the producers had made the conscious decision early-on, on the ethnicity of particular characters; and I suspect if they had done this particular issue would never have occurred. Still, people hang on to these precepts like the're sacred or something. Would it really be such a shocker if a few Hobbit families were swarthy instead of the light-skinned, English bumpkin stereotype everyone is convinced Tolkien intended? Where does it say that it must be so? As I remember it the hobbit race overall was pretty varied in features and appearance, as described in the beginning of Fellowship. The implication being that as hobbits evolved and migrated across Middle-Earth the species branched out with some variants never even making it to the Shire (thinking about Smeagol's people).

I guess I'm saying there are always plenty of ways of justifying this stuff to reconcile the nerd-compulsion for continuity and the preconceptions many people have for a beloved franchise. I love the LOTR too, I read them when I was 11 years old but seriously. This is not Tolkien's vision. This is a 2010 film adaptation made 70 years after the publication of the original book. I seriously doubt Tolkien imagined the Orcs and Ogres quite like Weta did either, so what? This is our modern interpretation of a great work of literature and basically everything in it is going to be totally different from Tolkien's original vision. So if that means some Pakistani Proudfoots (-feet!) or an Indonesian Fallowhide than I say bring it on! And those who scream indignation over this under the ridiculous guise that it breaks continuity and suspension of disbelief need to take a serious look at their own values and ask themselves if they're not allowing themselves to indulge in a little quiet bigotry.

What this guy said.

This is why the casting agent was an idiot for making the decision on his/her own.

 

[JDKJ]

You know I'm pretty surprised at how some have become so incensed about the whole thing. It actually feels like there may be a little closet racism here. I mean if anyone seriously thinks that the world is completely colorblind and ethnic minorities just need to keep their mouths shut and stop making a fuss then I think there's a pretty good chance they're not part of an ethnic minority. Sure, occasionally someone makes a far-fetched claim in the name of PC. Does this mean minorities should stop battling for equal and fair treatment across the board? I should certainly think not.

I would totally understand if the producers had made the conscious decision early-on, on the ethnicity of particular characters; and I suspect if they had done this particular issue would never have occurred. Still, people hang on to these precepts like the're sacred or something. Would it really be such a shocker if a few Hobbit families were swarthy instead of the light-skinned, English bumpkin stereotype everyone is convinced Tolkien intended? Where does it say that it must be so? As I remember it the hobbit race overall was pretty varied in features and appearance, as described in the beginning of Fellowship. The implication being that as hobbits evolved and migrated across Middle-Earth the species branched out with some variants never even making it to the Shire (thinking about Smeagol's people).

I guess I'm saying there are always plenty of ways of justifying this stuff to reconcile the nerd-compulsion for continuity and the preconceptions many people have for a beloved franchise. I love the LOTR too, I read them when I was 11 years old but seriously. This is not Tolkien's vision. This is a 2010 film adaptation made 70 years after the publication of the original book. I seriously doubt Tolkien imagined the Orcs and Ogres quite like Weta did either, so what? This is our modern interpretation of a great work of literature and basically everything in it is going to be totally different from Tolkien's original vision. So if that means some Pakistani Proudfoots (-feet!) or an Indonesian Fallowhide than I say bring it on! And those who scream indignation over this under the ridiculous guise that it breaks continuity and suspension of disbelief need to take a serious look at their own values and ask themselves if they're not allowing themselves to indulge in a little quiet bigotry.

What's "quiet" about a screaming bigot?

 

[Double A]

So, I suppose if a tall woman with a very girly voice wanted to play Bilbo, they'd have to let her try because of some idiot Pakistani woman who probably hasn't read The Hobbit in the first place.

Just great.

 

[ugeine]

So people are ready to believe in a land where magic exists, where Elves can live for ever and trees are sentient but you assume that the sun effects the blood vessels that change skin colour pigmentation in exactly the same as on earth?

I see where people are coming from, it's not as if it wasn't written by a white person from a predominately white country but I don't think Tolkien specifically stating the ethnicity of any characters in the book.

Doesn't the sun work differently in Middle Earth anyway? I haven't read any of the books in years, so I can't quite remember.

 

[JakobBloch]

There is nothing wrong with ethnically divergent subraces in a fantasy setting. In several fantasy settings you see a wild mix of races and ethnic diversity. In David Eddings books you see several different races living very close to each other with wildly divergent customs and physical appearance. In the Belgariad specifically there is one "race" (all races in the Belgariad are humans... except for the monsters) that has split into 4 very different sub-races. You have one branch that is reminiscent of the ancient vikings in both customs, temperament and physical appearance while another branch is conniving and dishonest yet fiercely loyal. They are generally lithe and far more sensible then their more burly cousins.

But we were talking hobbits. Another word for hobbits is halflings (they are refered to as such several times in the books and even in the movies. Now halflings have crept into many other settings as well. In the Dragon Lance setting halflings are fool hearty little folk with a taste for danger and adventure - not to mention tall tales and other peoples possessions. In that world they are referred to as kendars (that is the Danish way of writing it. I am unsure if it is the correct way). In anther setting known as "Midnight" (incidentally this setting is modelled on middle earth as kind of a what-if setting where the bad guy won.) the halflings are gypsies on swampgoing boats. They are generally skinny unlike the more portly hobbits.

What I am getting at is the racial and cultural diversity is a part of the fantasy genre. In this genre you can have democracies next to empires and theocracies. Customs can vary wildly within just a few miles and have no effect on each other (impossible in the real world). This means that black halflings and asian dwarves are not so far fetched in a fantasy setting.

However, the setting has to rest in itself. If you make rules for the setting you can't break those rules without breaking the setting. Now a couple of rules in the Tolkiens middle-earth: The world is sparsely populated. Villages of any significant size are far between and interaction between them is limited. The Shire is fairly cut off from the rest of the world even by middle-earth standards. The world is far larger then what the books describe. There are or has been greater evils then Sauron. (there are probably more)

Now the rule we are interested in is the isolations of the Shire. This leads us to several conclusions. 1) The society would me homogeneous. Customs and values would be similar across the Shire. 2) There would be a profound distrust of anything foreign or different. 3) The society would be largely self-sufficient. All these conclusions are proven true in the books. The simple life is held in high regard by all hobbits. Even Gandalf, loved as he is, is seen as a trouble-maker. All food and mostly all raw materials are gathered from inside the Shires borders. Only a few outlying townships has any trade with the outside. The other towns then trade with these gateway-towns for any missing raw materials. So any kind of cultural exchange is nearly impossible and ANY kind of foreign or different hobbit would be the subject of much gossip and scowling (such as the Baggins.). In this environment a hobbit with another ethnicity would be downright scandalous.

So in closing, a ethnically different hobbit would be quite possible in other settings and even in middle-earth but not in the Shire and as "The Hobbit" only deals with Shire-folk a Persian hobbit, however politically correct it might be, would go against the vision of the books. Historical or aesthetic correctness trumps political correctness in my book.

Being denied an audition because you ethnicity does not fit the role is not racism and claiming it is lessens the apparent threat of real racism.

on a side-note: It would technically be possible for the lady in question to get a role as a hobbit. Problem is the producers would then have to go find people that matched her ethnicity to make the Shire fit the description.

 

[Holy_Handgrenade]

This is just damage control, they're still going to cast white people only.

And you know why? Because LoTR is set in a medievil European setting. Guess how many Pakinstanis where living in Europe back in those days...

[Sarcams] Six hundered and if you say otherwise you are racist!


On topic, Hobbits are white, they just are deal with it! When we see a black female hobbit Naz Humphreys we will give it to you. I hate people who play the racism card.

 

[znix]

Too bad people are so damn sensitive these days. Hobbits aren't black, yellow, red, blue, violet or any other color. Nor are they a culturally diverse species. Are we really to the point where people need to be included as tokens in a Tolkien film?

It's good to know that, as a Caucasian, I can apply for scholarships and benefits from a variety of other other ethnic groups. After all, nobody is looking at my heritage or skin color, right? Right...

 

[Wuvlycuddles]

Ok, so it's perfectly acceptable to have a bunch of White guys pass as middle eastern nobility in that Prince of Persia film but a non-white hobbit is somehow completey unacceptable?

Would you listen to yourselves?

Its a freakin fantasy film, SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF IS IMPLIED.

...
Persians are indo Europeans, not Arabs.
In actuality, it is more accurate to have a white actor rather than an Arabic one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans

The more you know.

Ok, so maybe that was a bad example, but that was far from the only example that came to mind. How about the latest Star Trek film, a Korean taking on the role of a Japanese helmsman, did anyone care? And i can't think of a western Genghis Khan film where an Asian actor was cast in the lead role. Tennessee Williams' Cat on a Hot Tin Roof was recently re-done with an all African cast. Also, i believe there was only ever one Black actor to play Othello before the 20th century.

Point is, outside the realms of Bio Pics, it really does not matter what race the actor is. It may not be accepted by everyone and there will always be people to point out the error, but so what? The story or the action have always been more important than a few MINOR details, since when has it ever been any different in Hollywood?

 

[antipunt]

"All movements go far". I deeply frown upon racism, but it's naive to think the 'racism!'-card isn't being abused here.

I could go on and on, about 'equal opportunities', but judging from other comments ITT, I think everyone's already getting the idea.