Hotline Miami 2 Devs Remove "Rape Scene" From Demo

[DrunkenElfMage]

Man, people have a terrible knee jerk reaction when they hear something is getting changed in a game, automatically calling out "CENSORSHIP! THIS IS CENSORSHIP!"

This is NOT CENSORSHIP. This is the creative team taking two seconds out of the goddamn DEMO for chrisake. They are changing the scene in the game because it was not eliciting the reaction they wanted from gamers, something designers do ALL THE TIME when making a game.

And for some of you saying that "If you kill someone in a game, then you shouldn't be freaking out if you rape someone in a game!",you act like the gaming audience hadn't played thousands of hours of games with violent content. Violence is something we are NUMB to, almost nothing shocks us anymore. But rape is barely touched on in games, so of course they will elicit more of a reaction.

Its only censorship when the government or a corporation goes in and says its illegal to say that. When a creative team goes and changes something about a game, its called EDITING.

 

[Olikar]

If you show off any gender purely for the enjoyment of the opposite gender then it will be sexist,

Are you going to back that up or just assert it?

the reason that the intent isn't important is because I'm not analysing the creative process, just the final product.

Sexism implies intent, you can only say the depiction of a certain character is sexist if there is clear intent for it to be sexist.

I know, but in the fictional consequence that we have weren't given context for nothing bad happens to him for raping the woman, making it seem like it's condoning it.

No it wouldn't, at most you could say the film within the game is condoning rape (even that is a dubious claim though)

They attack you with vans smashing into their own buildings trying to get to you.

That could be just back up for the guys in the building, there's nothing to suggest they are arriving simply because Jacket is there.

The files you find certainly state that they had ties to the Russian mafia, not to mention the police kill you on sight in the mission where they show up but they don't do anything to the mafia.

That's because all the Mafia surrender and drop their weapons. Also I don't recall any file where it states the police have a connection with the Mafia.

I'm pretty sure the man with the gun shooting at you then you later showing up with a head wound and requiring surgery to get fragments of metal out of your skull makes it pretty clear that you were shot,

It's the opinion of many fans (me included) that Jacket wasn't shot but rather in the seemingly paradoxical fight scene with Biker (in which both seem to win depending on the person recalling it) he is actually the one who loses but doesn't die and is put into a coma by his head injury (him being shot is imagined while his girlfriend was actually shot). There's a lot of clues for this if you look around a bit, the three men wearing the masks (who some people take to be your subconscious) all refer to your actions as if they occurred in the past tense as though you where reliving them, after your fight with Biker things go really bizarre (seeing corpses in random areas for example) but after he wakes from the Coma it goes back to normal (or as normal as HM can get) suggesting they where imagined.

not to mention the police reports saying that he has ties to the mafia, and the fact that the cleaners specifically say that they don't do anything bad to the people who don't do what they say, they just make threats, so they certainly didn't send the assassin after you.

Except that not only does he explicitly state he was involved with janitors it's very heavily implied in the file he murdered your girlfriend because of Janitors.

...suspects claim to have been threatened into...
...instructed to kill by messages on their...

Perhaps they lied?

EDIT:

Its only censorship when the government or a corporation goes in and says its illegal to say that.

Perhaps you should look up what actually constitutes censorship before making such ridiculous claims.

 

[Warachia]

If you show off any gender purely for the enjoyment of the opposite gender then it will be sexist,

Are you going to back that up or just assert it?

It's for the enjoyment of the other gender and the detriment of the target. It being discriminatory is what makes it sexist: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sexist

the reason that the intent isn't important is because I'm not analysing the creative process, just the final product.

Sexism implies intent, you can only say the depiction of a certain character is sexist if there is clear intent for it to be sexist.

Not if I'm analysing the product and not the creators, I'm looking at it on its own merits, not what they intended.
Also, Sexism in no way implies intent.

I know, but in the fictional consequence that we have weren't given context for nothing bad happens to him for raping the woman, making it seem like it's condoning it.

No it wouldn't, at most you could say the film within the game is condoning rape (even that is a dubious claim though)

The demo as of now IS the film, so by your own logic it could condone rape

They attack you with vans smashing into their own buildings trying to get to you.

That could be just back up for the guys in the building, there's nothing to suggest they are arriving simply because Jacket is there.

Your own statement is contradictory, you're saying the backup is there with no purpose, they are backup arriving because you're in the building, not because they just wanted to smash through the door for no reason.

The files you find certainly state that they had ties to the Russian mafia, not to mention the police kill you on sight in the mission where they show up but they don't do anything to the mafia.

That's because all the Mafia surrender and drop their weapons. Also I don't recall any file where it states the police have a connection with the Mafia.

If you have no weapons they still kill you, they don't bother arresting or detaining the mafia in any way.
You later argue interpretations, my interpretation with the sentence fragments was that they did buy them off.

I'm pretty sure the man with the gun shooting at you then you later showing up with a head wound and requiring surgery to get fragments of metal out of your skull makes it pretty clear that you were shot,

It's the opinion of many fans (me included) that Jacket wasn't shot but rather in the seemingly paradoxical fight scene with Biker (in which both seem to win depending on the person recalling it) he is actually the one who loses but doesn't die and is put into a coma by his head injury (him being shot is imagined while his girlfriend was actually shot). There's a lot of clues for this if you look around a bit, the three men wearing the masks (who some people take to be your subconscious) all refer to your actions as if they occurred in the past tense as though you where reliving them, after your fight with Biker things go really bizarre (seeing corpses in random areas for example) but after he wakes from the Coma it goes back to normal (or as normal as HM can get) suggesting they where imagined.

I'm not going to argue different interpretations, but then how did your girlfriend die?

not to mention the police reports saying that he has ties to the mafia, and the fact that the cleaners specifically say that they don't do anything bad to the people who don't do what they say, they just make threats, so they certainly didn't send the assassin after you.

Except that not only does he explicitly state he was involved with janitors it's very heavily implied in the file he murdered your girlfriend because of Janitors.

He states that he was following the messages on the phone, it's never stated that the janitors sent him after you (if anything it's the opposite), and how do you explain that "ties to the russian mafia" bit?

...suspects claim to have been threatened into...
...instructed to kill by messages on their...

Perhaps they lied?

Why? They have no reason to, when you talk to them, they say that the threats alone are enough to get people to do what they want, and that they don't take any action against those who go against their orders (biker is a special case since he is hunting them down).

Maybe we should stop arguing about how we interpret the games though, let's look at what we do know, you play a murderer, and no matter your interpretation things certainly don't go well for him.

 

[wulf3n]

This is NOT CENSORSHIP. This is the creative team taking two seconds out of the goddamn DEMO for chrisake. They are changing the scene in the game because it was not eliciting the reaction they wanted from gamers,

Technically we don't even know how if its being removed from the final game. All we know is its being removed from the demonstration shown at a public event.

 

[Quadocky]

I don't think video games are ready for the subject of Rape. There is just too much personal emotional nuance.

 

[briankoontz]

Personal emotional nuance? Game developers got around "personal emotional nuance" with respect to murder by simply ignoring it - game protagonists are soulless husks who treat murder victims like a farmer with a scythe treats his wheat fields.

Why suddenly are game protagonists, currently soulless husks, supposed to be all squeamish and sensitive about rape? Consider the Dragonborn, covered in tissue, blood, and bone fragments from his latest crop of death-making approaching a lady, bowing gallantly, and saying "after you, madam". Fucking ridiculous.

Why not just make all the rape victims Nazi women, or demons. So, you know, they had it coming. It's what game developers currently do for murder, why not just extend that to rape?

Conan the Barbarian is at least honest. Kill the men and rape the women. If you're going to be a murderous psychopath who kills all the men then I'm not sure why the women are spared, unless the plan is to round them all up, make them your personal harem, and take turns with them. Technically that's not rape. Gamers call that "fun gameplay".

 

[Baldry]

I don't think the scene should've been in the demo...Surely if it's plot relative then without context yeah it will seem shocking or terrible and no matter what will probably dredge up a memory or two, it's gonna make people uneasy but that's not a bad thing as long as it's done tastefully and well but it shouldn't have been in the demo.

 

[Worgen]

As usual...

Simulated brutal mass murder: No problemo!

Short rape scene: Basically as bad as the holocaust.

Thank fuck the social justice warriors didn't get it removed from the real game.

Well killing sprees like what happens in the game are pretty rare, sexual assault seems to be something that women have to worry about fairly regularly. I've known more than a few women who have been sexually assaulted and one who was gang raped in her own house by three guys who broke in. My point is that there is a sizable portion of the population that has to worry about it happening to them.

 

[DarthSka]

As usual...

Simulated brutal mass murder: No problemo!

Short rape scene: Basically as bad as the holocaust.

Thank fuck the social justice warriors didn't get it removed from the real game.

Well killing sprees like what happens in the game are pretty rare, sexual assault seems to be something that women have to worry about fairly regularly. I've known more than a few women who have been sexually assaulted and one who was gang raped in her own house by three guys who broke in. My point is that there is a sizable portion of the population that has to worry about it happening to them.

And in many parts of the world, murder, death, etc. is an everyday worry and reality. It's not true for most of us here I'm guessing, but for many others, it's a painful reality. Hell, that's what my mom had to grow up with.

Rape and sexual assaults are not that common in gaming and when they are used, it is typically not done well or tastefully. But the only way for it to get to a better point is if artists are allowed to try. Now these guys pulled it of their own accord, but whether or not it was due to pressure is another point of debate.

 

[Worgen]

As usual...

Simulated brutal mass murder: No problemo!

Short rape scene: Basically as bad as the holocaust.

Thank fuck the social justice warriors didn't get it removed from the real game.

Well killing sprees like what happens in the game are pretty rare, sexual assault seems to be something that women have to worry about fairly regularly. I've known more than a few women who have been sexually assaulted and one who was gang raped in her own house by three guys who broke in. My point is that there is a sizable portion of the population that has to worry about it happening to them.

And in many parts of the world, murder, death, etc. is an everyday worry and reality. It's not true for most of us here I'm guessing, but for many others, it's a painful reality. Hell, that's what my mom had to grow up with.

Rape and sexual assaults are not that common in gaming and when they are used, it is typically not done well or tastefully. But the only way for it to get to a better point is if artists are allowed to try. Now these guys pulled it of their own accord, but whether or not it was due to pressure is another point of debate.

I imagine the threat of rape in the parts of the world where murder is common, is much higher as well.

I would argue that there really isn't a way to tastefully have a rape or sexual assault, especially not by the player character. Which is what it seems like is the case in the game, I haven't played the demo, I was waiting for it to come out.

 

[Lieju]

So, why did you put it in the demo, then, without the full context?

Rape can be handled well in stories, but doing something like that is not going to give me confidence you can do it.

 

[Dizeazedkiller]

The way they handled it was very good. Still it's a very simple fix for those complaining; don't play the game. The fault lays on the side of the player. It is their responsibility to avoid stimuli that may affect them negatively. No one should pander to them.

 

[Caiphus]

It occurs to me that almost all of the people dismissing the impact of rape are male.

A statement like that is never going to help your argument. Why would you post something like that?

 

[SanguiniusMagnificum]

Rape in movies? Ok!
Rape in literature? Ok!
Rape in live-action tv-shows *coughGameOfThronescough*? Ok!

Rape in video games? OH LAWD IN HEAVEN, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING ABOUT, GAME DEVELOPER!!!

 

[Caiphus]

It occurs to me that almost all of the people dismissing the impact of rape are male.

A statement like that is never going to help your argument. Why would you post something like that?

I noticed it. I commented on it.

Good for you. Still didn't help. I was inclined to be on your side until I saw that. And you probably don't care about that, but then why are you posting?