Is America going to collapse?

[Danny Ocean]

What do you think? Are we going to survive or should I start speaking Indian/Chinese?

The economy is no longer in recession [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession], and isn't forecast [http://www.forecasts.org/gdp.htm] to be. Unemployment [http://www.forecasts.org/unemploy.htm] will also decrease. The national debt is large, but that can be cleared with enough time and an impotent TEA party.

The worst has probably passed. You'll be fine.

To those who think that "america is recovering": Your "recovery" is powered by.... hmm, no, not even air.... i think it's belief. Like those riders in comics, that continue to ride, if they don't realized yet that they have no horse anymore. Your economic health is a simulation, sponsored by the fed.

Justify that assertion.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Op snip

So you're saying I shouldn't metaphorically sell my soul to try and get admitted to an American college (as an international student)?

 

[Lyx]

Okay... so your argument is that the government is completely and hopelessly controlled by election politics and things like that? Are there any hard statistics to prove that there isn't recovery though or that it's just a farce?

Uh, umm, yeah - statistics - how about a large part of your history? How did all that debt accumulate? During every legislature period, something could have been done - yet, the overal trend has constantly been to borrow now, and pay more later. This of course isn't specific to the USA... other countries too have a tendency to do that. The USA just turned out to be the champion in that regard.

The practices since 2008 have just been an extension of that style of shortterm thinking. Difference is just that:

A) Now it's accelerating at a pace like there is no tomorrow

B) Now in addition to deficit spending, they are also willing to destroy the financial system longterm, for the sake of sustaining it shortterm.

I'm not even sure what you're argueing. Are you argueing that humans do NOT have a history of shortterm thinking, at the cost of longterm sustainability? Really???

You could make arguments, furthermore, that the government NEEDS to reassure the populace in troubled times such as this. Sure the worst is over, but the people sure aren't feeling all that recovered. Would you rather have all those tasty investment dollars sitting in people's savings accounts or back in the market? So yes, the so-called sheep may afraid. But is that to say that you do not feel fear or uncertainty like they do? Could it possibly be forgiven for people who have lost their jobs to be a little depressed at the state of things? FDR's New Deal may have boosted the GDP, it may have put people back to work, but it gave the average American confidence and hope. The New Deal ended, and the war ended, but economic growth did not, that says something about the psyche of the American people.

I'm sorry, but it looks like we're living in different worlds. We have completely different understandings about what happened. To you, something has been averted, and its now just a matter of getting back on track.

To you, you all have just taken a big dose of opium. To me, what you were given was not opium, but instead a poison that makes you feel better today, but will get you into hospital tomorrow.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

I know it's just one man's opinion on these kinda issues, so I'll let someone who had more insight on this subject speak for me. I probably wouldn't have been able to say it any better, anyhow. Sorry, in advance, for the multiple vids. Just wanted to make sure I got a good range of the issues on this topic.






It's tragic, really. That old saying "The only way for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing" applies, but what you find is that when good people try to do things to improve our situation, they are shunned, balcklisted, made to be marginalized or outright ignored. And when all of those things fail, then it comes to the ultimate fallback - murder. Don't believe me? Look at JFK and his brother RFK, MLK, Gandhi, Jesus and John Lennon. All of these people have a similar life story and all of them have a similar ending. That's why I enjoy reading Noam Chomsky so much; he is blacklisted entirely from the US media. For those who do not know this particular individual, I'll give you one satistic about him and it's a very telling one - he is the eighth most quoted person in history.

 

[Nieroshai]

We won't collapse, but we need a complete leadership overhall. Guy A(Bush SR) breaks his promise not to raise taxes and overall functions as a puppet of Congress, Guy B does everything you'd expect from a Liberal as well as focusing too much on, ahem, affairs of state, and the Republican House has to balance the budget while he racks up the court bill. Guy C gets in an expensive war and lets Congress walkk all over him. Guy D says spending on climate research and forcing people to buy insurance is the only way to balance the budget... what? I don't know how to fix it, but while I don't know which bacteria I can definitely see the festering boils. We need a congress and president who first and foremost drop everything else for a year or so and come up with a budget that will let us break even within a decade. I see the hope of a rebound though in that leadership overhauls usually happen when the economy tanks.

 

[ImpostorZim]

I don't think you should start learning Chinese, but you should really consider preparing for the worst. We all are. I live in Argentina and I can tell you that if the dollar does happen to collapse like they say it will, we're all gonna be in for a ride.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Your overdramatizing this a bit aren't you? Germany was a lot worse off at the end of WWI, granted it is a bit overshadowed by something a little later.

Just because we had economic problems does not mean we're going to turn into a third world nation, you not getting a job doesn't mean the country is dying.

Again, its not just me. How is the nation's Poverty stricken families going to get to work when they spend $5 a gallon on gas to get to work? Maybe its worse where I am, as Florida has never been all that great.

I'm in Florida, too.

I don't drive ANYWHERE aside from school for testing (I take my courses online), and I'm pretty much broke. I'm down to under $500...that isn't even enough for rent. That was BEFORE the gas prices went up. Actually, just the other day I had the gas price go up WHILE I was at the gas station.

Have a bunch of grants and crap from the government, but...I really don't like the way this is going. (I can't find a job, either. I've searched for over two years, going door to door in shopping plazas asking...nothing.)

It seems like the only jobs that will be available are in the Government...

 

[sleeky01]

What do you think? Are we going to survive or should I start speaking Indian/Chinese?

The economy is no longer in recession [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession], and isn't forecast [http://www.forecasts.org/gdp.htm] to be. Unemployment [http://www.forecasts.org/unemploy.htm] will also decrease. The national debt is large, but that can be cleared with time.

"The national debt is large, but that can be cleared with time."

Query: How?

 

[Zechnophobe]

I've rather become MORE effluent in the past few years.

I hope you mean 'affluent'...

Uggh, yes. Very similar spelling, very different meanings. Why did I have to learn English again?

 

[Zero_ctrl]

It's most likely that America will collapse once Yellowstone explodes.
Well, I'd probably die at least.

 

[Zechnophobe]

We won't collapse, but we need a complete leadership overhall. Guy A(Bush SR) breaks his promise not to raise taxes and overall functions as a puppet of Congress, Guy B does everything you'd expect from a Liberal as well as focusing too much on, ahem, affairs of state, and the Republican House has to balance the budget while he racks up the court bill. Guy C gets in an expensive war and lets Congress walkk all over him. Guy D says spending on climate research and forcing people to buy insurance is the only way to balance the budget... what? I don't know how to fix it, but while I don't know which bacteria I can definitely see the festering boils. We need a congress and president who first and foremost drop everything else for a year or so and come up with a budget that will let us break even within a decade. I see the hope of a rebound though in that leadership overhauls usually happen when the economy tanks.

Considering that climate research may save the life of everyone on the planet, I think we can all maybe eat a few more cooked at home meals for a little while to fund it.

 

[DuderSkanks]

Yes. Plate Tectonics has ensured it...

But seriously, things are slowly and will continue to get better

 

[Blind Sight]

Meh that's just an economic downturn, if you think this is bad you should've been around in the 1870s.

Ever hyperpower collapses, it's simply the nature of it. History largely breaks it down into three periods: a beginning period of exploration and development, a Golden Age of expansion and advancement, and then the eventual fall of the power from grace. Now by all means this doesn't mean that America's going to pull a Soviet Union and have all the states break up into little countries, but I think that Americans should begin to accept that they just don't have as much sway in the world anymore, for better or for worse.

 

[Drago-Morph]

Actually, everyone will just turn to the EU and China. No one country is so important that it takes the entire world with it when it commits suicide.

Maybe - just a little problem: Europe is gonna go down too - it just takes a *slightly* more disciplined approach at it. It may not suffer as hard as the USA, but it will have to kill the EMU, sooner or later.

So, that pretty much leaves only china. Problem is just: Who's gonna buy all their stuff during the crisis, considering that they rely so heavily on export?

Exactly. China relies so heavily on America buying things from it that when America collapses, so will China. In fact, that's pretty much going to happen to most major powers. America probably will take everyone down when it goes because of all the money it pumps out buying things from everyone else. Not the most sound move on our end, no, but when we stop fueling the economies of other countries, they'll go down too.

 

[Metazare]

The Army is still hiring.

 

[Nieroshai]

We won't collapse, but we need a complete leadership overhall. Guy A(Bush SR) breaks his promise not to raise taxes and overall functions as a puppet of Congress, Guy B does everything you'd expect from a Liberal as well as focusing too much on, ahem, affairs of state, and the Republican House has to balance the budget while he racks up the court bill. Guy C gets in an expensive war and lets Congress walkk all over him. Guy D says spending on climate research and forcing people to buy insurance is the only way to balance the budget... what? I don't know how to fix it, but while I don't know which bacteria I can definitely see the festering boils. We need a congress and president who first and foremost drop everything else for a year or so and come up with a budget that will let us break even within a decade. I see the hope of a rebound though in that leadership overhauls usually happen when the economy tanks.

Considering that climate research may save the life of everyone on the planet, I think we can all maybe eat a few more cooked at home meals for a little while to fund it.

Considering Global Warming makes no ssense since the earth is entering a cooling cycle, and the amount of carbon follows the temperature instead of the other way around, I have to disagree with you on that "life saving" part. Look up East Anglia. Also note that the UN climate research center first claimed that everyone working for them supported the theory, but then when a shit ton of scientists said they didn't, they fired them but still kept on paper that they agreed. There is no basis whatsoever to believe that what we're going through is not natural and is going to keep going until the Earth is too hot to live on.

Conservation is important, but do we really need a Boogeyman to make people conserve? There has to be other incentives than another apocalyptic religion.

 

[BrownGaijin]

Because I'm getting worried. I can't find a job anywhere, I'm trying my best. Gas prices are going so insanely high my parents are having a hard time getting to work in the morning, and I know there are family way worse off than mine. I heard prices are going to be $5.00 later this year.

How much longer can this last? I want to finish college and get a career but I fear there won't even be a job market when I get out. I have this overwhelming sense of doom crushing down on me. (Mind you I do live with a dad that is the biggest prophet of doom you've ever seen.)
I know history is full of depressions, but the world is a much different place, population growth no longer bolsters an economy like it did back in the day.
What do you think? Are we going to survive or should I start speaking Indian/Chinese?

Short answer:
Don't get discouraged. It's not about the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog.


Long answer:

1.
Given that the stock market is now around the same place that it was before the crash, I'd say we're doing a lot better than people speculate. Heck, there were a lot of bears who thought that it wasn't going to bottom until 4000. It's still going to be a while before we see improvement in the economy - IMHO the effects of the present day stock market come into play with the economy about six months later.

2.
I'm looking at your profile judging by your birth year it's safe to say that you're doing the college thing in your early 20's.

The bad news about being a college grad: In a very healthy economy, it is easy to find a job as a college grad; companies are doing well and they can take in liability or two until they are polished enough to become an asset. In an economy like this however, companies are more comfortable hiring people who have spent at least a year or two polishing their skills. So it's times like these when you have to find some way to polish those skills.

The good news about being in your early twenties: Time is on your side. While you may fretting over a big shadow called debt, the good news is you still Y-O-U-N-G. Remember that whole thing I said about college. I recently went back and did it. And while you might feel that you're running out of time, there is hardly a day that goes by when I say "Man I wish I had put this same passion ten years ago. Everything would have been so much easier" and even then I am thankful that I am doing this now instead of when I'm in my forties or fifties (geh).

3.

Spoiler: Since we're both apparently men of God...

Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

Corinthians 4:16-18

 

[Kingshadow6]

The one factor of economy won't cause America to collapse. There needs to be multiple factors, such as running out of gas, or a natural disaster that involves most of the country (both of which very well may happen in the next few years).

 

[Zechnophobe]

We won't collapse, but we need a complete leadership overhall. Guy A(Bush SR) breaks his promise not to raise taxes and overall functions as a puppet of Congress, Guy B does everything you'd expect from a Liberal as well as focusing too much on, ahem, affairs of state, and the Republican House has to balance the budget while he racks up the court bill. Guy C gets in an expensive war and lets Congress walkk all over him. Guy D says spending on climate research and forcing people to buy insurance is the only way to balance the budget... what? I don't know how to fix it, but while I don't know which bacteria I can definitely see the festering boils. We need a congress and president who first and foremost drop everything else for a year or so and come up with a budget that will let us break even within a decade. I see the hope of a rebound though in that leadership overhauls usually happen when the economy tanks.

Considering that climate research may save the life of everyone on the planet, I think we can all maybe eat a few more cooked at home meals for a little while to fund it.

Considering Global Warming makes no ssense since the earth is entering a cooling cycle, and the amount of carbon follows the temperature instead of the other way around, I have to disagree with you on that "life saving" part. Look up East Anglia. Also note that the UN climate research center first claimed that everyone working for them supported the theory, but then when a shit ton of scientists said they didn't, they fired them but still kept on paper that they agreed. There is no basis whatsoever to believe that what we're going through is not natural and is going to keep going until the Earth is too hot to live on.

Conservation is important, but do we really need a Boogeyman to make people coserve? There has to be other incentives than another apocalyptic religion.

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

It's like, one side argues based on drama. OMG not everyone agreed all at once! The other side has evidence. This isn't a soap opera man. Just because harsh words are said doesn't mean the CO2 levels aren't the highest they've been in 650 thousand years.

We *should* be entering a cooling cycle now. This should correlate with a decrease in CO2. It isn't. See how the chart shows the normal cycle being followed for the past 400k years, and where we are now it is supposed to be going down... but isn't?