Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls

[Astro]

I posted this morning about relationship dynamics of the issue, I don't wish to go back on that train, although I do conclude with the same point.

The very definition of "nerd" seems to be what this thread has degenerated into. To some people it seems to mean a dedicated devotion to a singular thing, and to others a very broad array of interests in activities that are classified as "nerdy". It would be very difficult for any person male or female to existed in both groups simultaneously. Either you dedicate yourself to knowing something inside out, to learn every facet of something, or you cherrypick a few things that you adore and know a lot of other stuff in passing. I am a hockey and WW2 nerd in the devoted category, but perhaps only a "fake nerd" to hardcore gamers or Anime junkies. I can't name every game on every platform ever made, let along have the time (and increasingly the finances) to play them all, but there are some people on this forum that do know and have played the vast majority of those games. The expectation that every female game nerd needs to know as much as Jim Sterling or every female movie buff needs to know as much as Movie Bob is the type of scrunity that is unfair. The issue I have with the grilling of the female nerds (legit nerds, not "fake") is that they are often held up to an impossible standard even if they are really knowledgeable.

Here's my example to help illustrate my overall point.

I love Star Trek, have seen every episode of every series, all the movies, I'm sure there are plenty of posters who have as well, but if I was in a place having to debate semantics of individual episodes withour reference to what happened in that episode or argue over the racial characteristics of the various races, to that group I will not be considered "nerdy" enough. I am not in a position of authority on Star Trek, but some people are walking Gene Roddenberry's. It depends on the level of interest.

To the Gene Roddenberry's I'm probably considered a poser, but to society at large I am a Trekkie and proudly so. I may be scoffed by the Gene Roddenberry's, but a female Trekkie would be expected to know the episode number in TOS where James Kirk's grave was improperly marked, whereas I can get by simply knowing that it occured.

There are sports "fans" that can't name the team that won the championship last year. There are "video game fans" that think 5 hours of gaming in a row is a marathon. There are Battlestar Galatica "nerds" I've met that don't know there was a 1970s Battlestar, Starbuck was a man, and Gaius Baltar worked directly for the Cyclons. Everything has it's elitists, hardcore fans, casuals, and posers.

As I allude to in my first post, it seems "Fake Nerds Girls" seemingly only exist in the eye of the beholder. Every sports, hobby, game, activity has it, I don't see how video games are different.

The fact that they're feigning interest is irrelevant, it's that they're doing something specifically for sexually-charged attention from a particularly vulnerable demographic in a predatory and manipulative manner. No fake nerd girl has ever contributed anything, they're just trying to integrate themselves into gaming culture to exploit the fact that being female makes them valuable in that context. It's slimy, lazy and exploitative.

 

[Vault101]

I think we should all just hold hands and be happy about video games.

awww...he got banned

I was having fun releasing some rightous anger....

 

[Aardvaarkman]

The fact that they're feigning interest is irrelevant, it's that they're doing something specifically for sexually-charged attention from a particularly vulnerable demographic in a predatory and manipulative manner. No fake nerd girl has ever contributed anything, they're just trying to integrate themselves into gaming culture to exploit the fact that being female makes them valuable. It's slimy, lazy and exploitative.

Of course, no male gamer would ever do anything to try and attract sexual attention. There are no sleazy, lazy male gamers.

I'm also wondering what you think it is that the average male gamer has contributed? The vast majority of gamers don't "contribute" anything - they just play games. It's only really the programmers, the influential game journalists and the studios that actually have enough impact to influence the medium through their rhetoric.

Of course, the major influence on gaming is what the majority of people choose to buy - which tends to be titles like Angry Birds, Mario, Halo, Madden, etc. So, the rhetoric is kind of irrelevant. That being said, can you tell us what you've actually contributed to gaming so we can judge that?

It's also interesting that you specify "fake girl gamers." What is it that the fake boy gamers have contributed that excludes them from your comments?

 

[Astro]

The fact that they're feigning interest is irrelevant, it's that they're doing something specifically for sexually-charged attention from a particularly vulnerable demographic in a predatory and manipulative manner. No fake nerd girl has ever contributed anything, they're just trying to integrate themselves into gaming culture to exploit the fact that being female makes them valuable. It's slimy, lazy and exploitative.

Of course, no male gamer would ever do anything to try and attract sexual attention. There are no sleazy, lazy male gamers.

I'm also wondering what you think it is that the average male gamer has contributed? The vast majority of gamers don't "contribute" anything - they just play games. It's only really the programmers, the influential game journalists and the studios that actually have enough impact to influence the medium through their rhetoric.

Of course, the major influence on gaming is what the majority of people choose to buy - which tends to be titles like Angry Birds, Mario, Halo, Madden, etc. So, the rhetoric is kind of irrelevant. That being said, can you tell us what you've actually contributed to gaming so we can judge that?

It's also interesting that you specify "fake girl gamers." What is it that the fake boy gamers have contributed that excludes them from your comments?

Yes, except female sexual persuasion isn't "hey I'm interested in you so I'll express my interest" in this context, it's "hey I'm going to sit here presenting myself in a certain way to exploit this demographic specifically to reap the attention I'm liable to get." The average male gamer is a member of the gaming community, and if you have an interest in gaming, even a passing one, no-one will think twice about your good-natured participation. In order to be into something as a hobby you don't have to actively contribute to avoid scorn, you just have to not intentionally use it as an agent to leech for your own benefit to the irritation of legitimate enthusiasts. Be neutral, or give more than you take. None of my hobbies are your dating service, and I don't appreciate being passively preyed on or manipulated. Obviously you can do whatever you want because we live in modern nihilism, but I'm not going to idly tolerate this 'fake nerd girl' bullshit without so much as mentioning why it's unpleasant because legally nothing can be done about it, (so I guess it's fine [just like an extremely grumpy person is absolutely fine because HEH legal freedom]).

There are obviously prats who will interrogate every woman who expresses an interest in anything they like because they're lonely morons, but 'fake nerd girls' aren't the innocent victims of these people who nobody is taking seriously anyway, real nerd girls are. And there's no legitimate discussion about whether girls can feasibly have an interest in gaming, the discussion is about whether 'fake nerd girls' are deserving of contempt and why or why not.

 

[LordFeast58]

Well, Jim Sterling is right. People still 'care' about Fake Nerd Girls and this forum proves it.

 

[Cale Lively]

Here is the true crux of the issue. Fake nerds are exactly that fake. No one likes having there culture subsumed by those who traditionally been the "enemy" of your culture. If a former jock or prep girl starts acting like a nerd it is a slap in the face to those of us who had deal with there torment in high school. Whats worse is often times they continue to belittle true nerds. Also they tend to act like know it all's when they in fact no nothing at all. Like the fact that HAN shot first HAN SHOT FIRST!

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Yes, except female sexual persuasion isn't "hey I'm interested in you so I'll express my interest" in this context, it's "hey I'm going to sit here presenting myself in a certain way to exploit this demographic specifically to reap the attention I'm liable to get."

You really don't seem to have much of an idea about human sexuality, whether male or female. Females (whether considered attractive or not) are generally constantly subjected to unwanted male attention. It isn't usually males who are perved upon and judged by their appearance.

The idea that male gamers are somehow being manipulated or are victims of female predators is one of the most absurd things I've heard in quite a while. And the idea that they do it by just "sitting here" looking a certain way is just ridiculous. If they're just sitting there, then why do you have to involve yourself with them in any way. Where is the exploitation here?

 

[Astro]

Yes, except female sexual persuasion isn't "hey I'm interested in you so I'll express my interest" in this context, it's "hey I'm going to sit here presenting myself in a certain way to exploit this demographic specifically to reap the attention I'm liable to get."

You really don't seem to have much of an idea about human sexuality, whether male or female. Females (whether considered attractive or not) are generally constantly subjected to unwanted male attention. It isn't usually males who are perved upon and judged by their appearance.

The idea that male gamers are somehow being manipulated or are victims of female predators is one of the most absurd things I've heard in quite a while. And the idea that they do it by just "sitting here" looking a certain way is just ridiculous. If they're just sitting there, then why do you have to involve yourself with them in any way. Where is the exploitation here?

Fucking awful argument, Aardvaarkman. Your first paragraph is completely irrelevant, it doesn't address anything I contested, even in passing, and the second paragraph misses the point completely. You are being exploited by someone who's falsely assuming a role in order to provoke a certain type of response from you for their personal gain, the only reasonable argument you could possibly mount against this is questioning whether the effect that it has is a negative one. I never implied you're forced to involve yourself with 'fake nerd girls' (though it's not out of the question because they're intentionally trying to present themselves in a way which does forcefully involve you), I asserted that they're a nuisance and worthy of contempt, whether they directly have an affect on me as a physical being is irrelevant.

You should seriously consider looking at the reasonable conclusion of your argument when you're trying to make a case for the ridiculousness of women attempting to present themselves appealingly for the attention of men. 'Fake nerd girls' not having direct agency doesn't disqualify them from acting intentionally as a conduit, it just makes their approach dishonest and slimy. Yes, consensual male action is required in these situations to feed 'fake nerd girls' attention. No, that doesn't render the girl trying to provoke the attention completely innocent because it's plausibly deniable and not ideal to admit that 'maybe she was asking for it'.

 

[mechalynx]

I find Fake Nerd Girls annoying, just like I find Fake Anything Anyone annoying. Maybe a bit more even, since I'm a female gamer. And the reason for this is, because people like that are attention whores, that rarely give a shit about what actually interests you. I have met a few and all the encounters went something like this:

"Oh, you like video games!! Me too!!"

"That's nice. Fave genres? RPG, JRPG, RTS...."

*Blank stare*

"Oh all of them.. They're just so much fun!"

Then I tentitavely throw up a few well known recent or classic titles, to get a discussion started, since by then I assume that the person actually wants to talk video games. At best I get a recognition for titles only, sometimes even "Oh I saw my bf/brother/previous victim play it." Minutes after they change topics entirely and/or start talking about themselves. And at this point I lose all interest in this "nerd".

I just find stuff like this insulting, because it gives off an impression that gaming isn't a worthy hobby (or lifestyle for some lucky individuals) and those who enjoy it are just lesser minded people, ready to worship those who feign even the slightest interest. It's not ego stroking, it's the fact that the person blatantly lies to you for no other reasons that self assertion or whatever, and not because they genuinely care what you think.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Yeah. Nerds are some real persecuted people I can tell you that. The subject of Oscar bait in a good 60-70 years time.

Bein a gamer worse than slavery it is!

harmonica plays

GOD HELP ME NOW!.....CANT PUT MY CONTROLLER DOWN!....CANT GET ME A GIRL!!!! WHAT CAN I DDOOOOOOOOO


lmao

 

[Alaster Angelo]

Fake gamer girl? Hasn't this type of thing been around since that UltraNeko incident a few years ago?

 

[AngloDoom]

Kinda missing the point, I think. Emotional manipulation is emotional manipulation.

I think this is as much ?emotional manipulation? as laughing at a joke you don?t find funny or wearing your best outfit that gives you blisters, but that?s just me. I guess we just think differently there.

You know, you just went from snarking at a generalisation about you being a stripper to making a generalisation about trying to fit in.

I'm pretty sure I don't. I also don't try not to fit in, because I'm not into counter-culture any more than culture.

I also don't think it's fun to try and fit in. Ask your average closeted homosexual or transsexual how they feel.

I don?t think it?s too absurd to believe that the majority of people on the planet would like to get on with the majority of the other people on the planet. When most people go into a new workplace I?m sure it wouldn?t be too ridiculous to suggest that they?d prefer it if the people on the shift were similar enough to them to get on. On the other hand, I do think it is absurd to believe that ?tits = not geek?.

Fair enough, maybe you aren?t the type to try and fit in or not fit in, but those types of people are few and far between. Most people, again, do not want to be the only person in a new workplace who feels like they can?t get on with the rest of the staff. We naturally like to get on with other people and people in total isolation often come off worse for it. You may say you don?t try to fit in, but I?m sure you can think of things you do to not draw attention to yourself even though you?d like to otherwise ? like go to the shops in clothes instead of your nice warm pyjamas. I may be wrong since I know nothing about you, but that?s just my opinion since I?ve yet to encounter someone who truly was indifferent about people who wasn?t suffering from something such as depression.

Also, the closeted sexuality thing is on a different level to what I?m suggesting. When I made that statement I meant things such as dyeing your hair, or trying a new style. You?re doing it to, most likely, solicit a response from others and gain their approval. I don?t think it?s strange to say that many people enjoy feeling like they?re getting ready to go somewhere and progressively making themselves more attractive in what they are doing, but again I speak from anecdotal experience. I don?t think failing to fit in is fun, but I certainly think that people do enjoy trying to keep up with fashions; I see more people looking at fashion magazines for fun ideas than desperately trying to hide their secret lack of style.

So yeah, hope I clarified my points a bit better there.

EDIT - OHDEARFUCK I didn't realise I wrote that much. Apologies, I'm on my first week of night-shifts and apparently the editing section of my brain is asleep.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Fucking awful argument, Aardvaarkman. Your first paragraph is completely irrelevant, it doesn't address anything I contested, even in passing, and the second paragraph misses the point completely.

How is it irrelevant? Females are absolutely treated differently to males, and this addresses your narrative of male victimization.

You are being exploited by someone who's falsely assuming a role in order to provoke a certain type of response from you for their personal gain,

How are you being exploited by them, unless you choose to be? And what is the supposed benefit to them?

(though it's not out of the question because they're intentionally trying to present themselves in a way which does forcefully involve you)

This makes no sense - who are you talking about who used force against you? The discussion has so far been about females who supposedly wear certain clothes, or pretend to be something they're not, in order to deceive. It has not been about females who use violence to force males to do their bidding.

I asserted that they're a nuisance and worthy of contempt, whether they directly have an affect on me as a physical being is irrelevant.

Why is that irrelevant? If they pose no threat to you, then what's the problem?

No, that doesn't render the girl trying to provoke the attention completely innocent because it's plausibly deniable and not ideal to admit that 'maybe she was asking for it'.

What the hell? What was she supposedly "asking for"? And who are you talking about?

 

[Astro]

What narrative of male victimization are you talking about? I didn't mention anything about something being unfair for males, I'm referring to a gender dynamic that could coincidentally be perceived as such, but that isn't an aspect of the point I'm making.

You're being exploited by them because they present themselves in a way which is intentionally exploitative of the male psyche for sexually-charged attention, and it makes no difference that you can choose to ignore them, that doesn't change what it is or why it's contemptible. When a girl is trying to be sexually desired she isn't putting on a display for one person, she's using her physical assets and attitude in an attempt to capture all male attention in her vicinity, whether she likes it or not - that's the nature of it. You can ignore her, but she's still intentionally coercing men, including you or me, into being affected by her if you, as a man, happen to be nearby. Can we force her to stop doing it? Not really, but that doesn't make her less of a nuisance.

'Forcefully' isn't necessarily physical. When you're a heterosexual male and this: [ http://i.imgur.com/10x6H.jpg ] is the kind of caliber of intentionally honed presentation you're dealing with (and in the context of 'fake nerd girls' it often is), you can't choose whether you're affected by it. Physical causality, beyond 'fake nerd girls' trying to make themselves known for getting attention, isn't the root issue.

The problem is that I don't like it. What else could the problem be? I've already explained why I don't like it, if you're going to ask that next.

It's already clearly explained in what you read. A hypothetical 'fake nerd girl' passively pandering to the male psyche to provoke them into giving her attention, often sexually-charged attention.

 

[Vault101]

17 pages

.........17 bloody pages

what is it about females that makes people go insane?

 

[chozo_hybrid]

17 pages

.........17 bloody pages

what is it about females that makes people go insane?

I have no idea, I just wish people would all get along. Games are for entertainment, what does it matter who likes them or pretends to like them, I don't think it really hurts anyone.

 

[BreakfastMan]

17 pages

.........17 bloody pages

what is it about females that makes people go insane?

I think we all know what it is. Some people just never got out of highschool, mentally.

 

[Vault101]

I think we all know what it is. Some people just never got out of highschool, mentally.

I think you may be onto somthing there

that and peoples "martyr entitlement" complex

[i/]I suffered for your SINS! thou shalt not play games without aproval![/i]

 

[BreakfastMan]

I think we all know what it is. Some people just never got out of highschool, mentally.

I think you may be onto somthing there

that and peoples "martyr entitlement" complex

[i/]I suffered for your SINS! thou shalt not play games without aproval![/i]

And persecution complexes! Don't forget all the persecution complexes! Because teh wimens/mainstream wants to take away my fun and vidja games!

 

[Overusedname]

17 pages

.........17 bloody pages

what is it about females that makes people go insane?

This site seems to be growing a mentality that women have to work harder for the mere right to exist happily, then turns around and claims gaming does not have a sexism problem.

My biggest issue with 'Fake nerd's' is that no one has ever presented any proof that they exist. At all. It's literally complaining that someone enjoys the same thing you do, but not nearly enough.