lets collectively lol @ these "I need feminism because..." pics

Giftfromme

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evilthecat said:
Giftfromme said:
You look at a girl and she doesn't keep eye contact? She could be shy you know.
...Relevance to what I said? Because I'm not seeing any.

Forgive me if I sound a little condescending. I'm trying not to be, but I don't see how this is in any way difficult to understand.

Sexual harassment refers the act of making persistent and/or unwanted sexual advances. Sometimes, yes, you can't know whether an advance was unwanted or not, but you can usually have a pretty good guess. If you do something in full knowledge that it might make someone else uncomfortable, own your actions, don't push them off onto someone else because some bitches be totally down with that, accept that you were perfectly okay with the risk that you were making someone uncomfortable with your actions on the off-chance it might get you in their pants. What does that say about you? What does it say about the entire male gender role?

You're trying to break this down into "unacceptable" actions in order to demonstrate that having any kind of personal integrity in this regard is impossible. It's really not and I refuse to believe you're incapable of reasonable judgement in this regard. Staring at someone is fine. Staring at someone persistently when it's obvious (or should be obvious) that they don't want you to is pathetic. Hitting on someone is fine. Whipping your cock out at them or following them down the street is pathetic.

I'd say the worst part about being in any way pro-feminist is having to argue with men who will go to extreme lengths to defend the idea that they are fucking morons. Do you have any idea how insulting that is? Let's face it, you're perfectly capable of exercising sound judgement in this regard, and maybe the reason you sometimes don't is because sometimes the risk of harassing someone just doesn't seem like a very big deal to you, and why the fuck should it?

..unless of course you're willing to account for someone else's feelings as something more than a prolonged puzzle sequence with vagina as a reward.

If it's not obvious, I'm deliberately exaggerating. I'm not actually accusing you of anything, like I said I just have no fucking idea how anyone in the 21st century doesn't understand how to avoid harassing someone.

Giftfromme said:
But what is the point of enforcing equality in this arena?
Who is talking about enforcing equality?

Giftfromme said:
ou can't nor should you enforce people change their opinions on this arena.
I'm not. I'm arguing that they should.

Third time this thread, feminism is not mind-control.

Giftfromme said:
These opinions are formed over centuries and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand or considered irrelevant.
Why not? Is there some merit to these opinions? What do they actually do?

Giftfromme said:
You can negotiate gender roles and relationships over the course of a larger society, but you should never serve to neutralize these. That would defeat the ongoing negotiation in society on gender roles etc.
...

At this point, I'm really really confused as to what you think feminism is and, more importantly, what it does. Again, it's not mind control.

Giftfromme said:
These come with a long history and are not trivial or should be discarded.
Wrong on every count.

These ideas have always changed, were always trivial, and have always been discarded when they outlived their usefulness. Even today, there are multiple competing ideas about what constitutes each of these things, in fact our friend in picture number one represents just such a position. In terms of its mutability, our society is no different to any previous one. The only difference is that we have a new vocabulary with new concepts which enables us to actually talk about it.

Your logic, if I'm reading it correctly, is basically that society shouldn't change because it must be how it is for a reason. That's circular.

Giftfromme said:
It's not just men who decide social values, it's women too.
Relevance?

You're right, of course, but I don't see any relevance to anything.

Feminism, certainly modern feminism, isn't really about who "decides" social values, it's about who the beneficiaries are. Just because you're given a "decision" doesn't mean the decision is always fair.

Giftfromme said:
When we talk about evolutionary history, you need to understand that it's mostly institutions that we have put a blanket over our age-old ways that stops us from acting like we used to.
Oh right..

..so, if institutions can do that, why is evolutionary history even relevant?

Giftfromme said:
Surely in our new evolved society, such a trait, behaviour etc (or whatever you call it) that in fact evolved while we were on the savannah should have been wiped out by now?
Let me explain to me what you just did.

1) You took an incident which occurs in a modern society.
2) You randomly decided it is not only an instinct rather than learned skill (proposing a whole load of original assumptions in the process, which I'll cover in a second) but evolved in a very specific environment and for a specific purpose, all without any evidence beyond the fact that it exists and must have a cause.
3) You used this to make a broad claim about the nature of every single person in the world.

In order for this to be accurate, we have to propose several original or contested assumptions.

1) That early hominids formed long-term pair bondings.
2) That despite doing so, they would still mate with other individuals in secret.
3) That there was some reason why it was important to know when this was happening.

There's a much simpler explanation, which is generally when you marry someone you spend a large proportion of your time with them. It's very hard to lie perfectly to someone who knows you very well, particularly when said lie manifests in your behavior.

This is just random theorizing. I know it's bad form to critique a study you've never read, but I fail to see how this one could have produced the conclusion you stated scientifically.

Giftfromme said:
Dunno what else to say about the rape thing. Biological urges are powerful and any amount of mental acrobatics can be done to justify a particular act. A man might look at all the advertising and think that everyone bar him is getting laid. He might then use that as an excuse to get rape if he's desperate enough. Anything could be used as an excuse. Education will hardly stop that from happening.
If "biological urges" are so powerful that men simply can't control their urge to rape, then why don't all men do it? Why do some women? Why do so many men rape their current or former sexual partners? Why do men in seemingly healthy sexual relationships commit rape? Why do some rapists fail to ejaculate or get an erection during the act?

"Desperation" really doesn't seem to come into it for most people who commit the crime.

It's impossible to concretely say at this point to say if "education" can genuinely effect men's chances of committing rape, but there is too much evidence that it can to simply dismiss the possibility out of hand based on unwarranted personal conviction. There are plenty of studies suggesting rape myth acceptance as a strong predictor of the likelihood of someone committing rape, for example.
Ok we can agree on that definition of harassment. Men will always feel entitled to act this way, no matter what education there is. Unless of course we change in the future and we see that it's not predominantly men who are chasing woman, if you will.

Institutions are historical artifacts. They didn't come out of nowhere. Evolutionary history is how we evolved, how these became hardwired. For instance, when I touch a hot stove, I don't think to myself "oh this is very hot, I better take my hand away" I take my hand away by instinct and very quickly too. This is a trait built up over our time on the savannah. We were only able to build these stable and long lasting institutions given the psychology built up over our time. One is not irrelevant because of the other.

"1) That early hominids formed long-term pair bondings.
2) That despite doing so, they would still mate with other individuals in secret.
3) That there was some reason why it was important to know when this was happening."

Those are actually correct according to our best theories of our time on the savannah. "Long-term" being relative since people were lucky to see the age of 30, but long term by those standards. Women did in fact cheat on their partners as of course did men. Women might even trade sex for food or might partner up with a successful man who can provide for her children, but then actually have sex with another man who has better genes to actually have the children. Have her pie and eat it if you will. Modern women that cheat typically do it when either consciously or unconsciously they know they are most likely to have children. Whether or not they plan to have children, is at at that particular time in the cycle when they will cheat. This behaviour was common enough to develop instincts around it.

Got nothing else to say on the rape thing really.

I guess this is all getting off topic, but it was nice debating this.
 

Calibanbutcher

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2009
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marcooos said:
Zenron said:


Can we talk about this I need feminism picture instead? Seems like it would be about as productive.

Sure, most of those pictures don't have much to do with feminism or are just fundamentally flawed but that doesn't mean it's not childish to laugh at them.
Goddamn bigoted meerkat hating on mens rights

We all need to be a bit childish sometimes...

Also, f*ck that bigoted meerkat hating on human problems, dirty bigotted chauvinist man-hating meerkat...
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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matthew_lane said:
Sure & back in the victorian era is was fashionable to be morbidly obese, as it denoted extreme wealthy... It was however still as unhealthy as fuck. Also you know what else was really popular in that same time period? Dying of imaginary illnessess & things we treat in childhood... So lets not pretend that somethign done in an arse backward social climate is suddenly good.
I wonder how many "actually" morbidly obese people there were back then....anyway once again missing my point

the point being that people have different body types (ones body is not a binary "skinny as hell" and "morbidly obease) that and what society considers beautiful changes culturally

you cant tell me that being thin to the point of anorexia is much better than being morbidly obease healthwise
 

maninahat

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Padwolf said:
Well. That second one is completely stupid. The university is named after a male because they achieved something. Are we to completely ignore the achievements of men now? My old university, St Mary's was named after a woman. Go to a different university if you don't agree that it should honour someone who achieved something great in their life. Really that one was just silly.

As for the "street harassment" one. What do they want? do they want men to harass women to make them feel more attractive? Really? Seems a bit more of a personal issues than anything. The armpit hair one too, that's more a personal issue than a feminist issue.
I think the university one is a broader observation about female accomplishment, recognition, and prestige. Historically, women weren't allowed into most positions of authority or higher education, and as many universities (or other such institutions) were founded during these periods, these places would inevitably be named after a pioneering man. So the name kind of serves as a permanent reminder of male superiority, which will remain with us long after having more women in leadership or educational roles. Even the universities or institutes named after women tend to refer to religious figures, rather than famous secular achievers. Not to diminish the positive things that Saints did, I'd prefer we praised women who make valuable material contributions to society.

The street harassment refers to how attractive women are regularly harassed in public, whilst ugly women are ignored - not just by street jerks, but also by society and the media at large. Women are often regarded first by their looks, and then second by their achievements. With that in mind, harassment becomes a perverted form of gauging a woman's value. It's a double criticism of public harassment, and of how society prioritizes women based on looks.

Arm pit hair is a personal choice, but personal choice is greatly influenced by society. Just why should women have to shave under their arms? Society thinks they should, and acts all kinds of repulsed when they don't. I could see how grooming under arms would feel like a frustrating and arbitrary requirement, especially as being a man, no one ever comments on how horribly my armpit hair looks. Unshaven armpits are treated as a universal symbol of freakish, repulsive, disgusting feminists who don't behave "normally". That tells you a lot about what we require of women.
 

Shock and Awe

Winter is Coming
Sep 6, 2008
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boots said:
Shock and Awe said:
You keep asking me if I care about these issues I come back with. Do you care about them? As much as womens' issues? Thats really the heart of what we are talking about here. Feminists love to talk about how objectified and put down women are but really are rarely interested in actually trying to make things more equal.
Except for in the links I posted above, which all show feminists actively speaking out against injustices against men.

Instead they are interested in trying to make things better for women, even when it makes no sense. Feminists were jumping for joy when Women were allowed to enter Combat MOSs here in the US, but did anyone start clamoring for Women to start having to sign up for the draft? Not a chance in hell.
Because the draft is not a good thing! The way to earn equality there would be to abolish the draft altogether, not force women to sign up for it as well. That would be insane. That would be like combating workplace death inequality by murdering more women in the workplace to balance things out.

And funnily enough, feminists have been arguing against the draft since the eighties [http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1951&dat=19800221&id=d4suAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qocFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3028,6565769].

Go on, keep on with the "feminists don't care about X issue of sexism against men" arguments, and I'll keep coming back with feminists who do care, and who care a hell of a lot more than the people who bring up these issues only when they feel like going on an anti-feminist rant.

The reason people always come back in these threads with issues that effect men is because the people talking about how poor life is for women totally ignore them despite the fact that things are just as bad for men as they are for women.
That is a complete and utter projection. You assume that any person who talks about issues affecting women is automatically also saying that men have no problems. That's like assuming that a person who starts a thread about apples is deliberately ignoring the existence of oranges.
Well if the things you are bringing up were the norm for the modern feminist movement there would be no issue, because really it ceases to be feminist and is (at the risk of sounding like Amon) Equalist. Unfortunately this isn't the driving force behind the movement today. In fact its a lot like modern Christian Conservative movements in which it mainly just reacts violently towards things it doesn't like. A good example of a look at modern feminism is at what happened at the University of Toronto when Warren Farrel tried to give a lecture there. (Link [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0]) Instead of acknowledging problems like you and the people you referenced have they basically just cover their ears, close their eyes, and scream "patriarchy" over and over. Thats the modern feminist movement. Its not fighting against the draft or equal pay for equal work, its about talking "rape culture" and "patriarchy" and other nasty sounding buzz words.
 

Insanely Asinine

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00slash00 said:
hey i wanna play!

i need feminism because republicans spent the better part of last year attacking womens reproductive rights

i need feminism because republicans continue to try and make abortion illegal

i need feminism because, working in construction, my male co-workers all treat me like a fragile child incapable of handling any physical labor or crude humor

haha god feminism is so stupid! lets just get rid of it because as we all know, once a group has achieved acceptance and is mostly equal, it will stay that way forever
The first two are good and so is the first half of the last one.
Now the other half,on the crude humor, is fear of getting sued or fired for sexual harassment.
Edit: Also they're probably putting you, assuming you are of the female gender by your phrasing if not I apologize post haste, on a peddle stool that makes them think you are an angel among lowly miscreants.
 

Cellseam

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Video Gamers...

Arent you always arguing how you hate when the general media assumes that your just of group of violent irresponsible mysogenists, and then you make a forum topic called "lets collectively lol @ these "I need feminism because..." pics, how exactly you making your demographic look better? You complain about people not taking video games seriously and insulting you, and then you laugh at others genuine call for civility. This isnt even about feminism, its about being a decent human being and deciding what exactly to laugh at. its one thing to disagree with the arguements the people in these pictures are making and talk about them, but the title is literally saying 'lets laugh at these idiots'. And didnt we have an even recently about video gamers freuenting the words rape and *****, and the 'contributing to rape culture' didnt resonate with anyone?

I need feminism because....

Too many people still think its something to laugh at.
 

Darken12

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Cellseam said:
Video Gamers...

Arent you always arguing how you hate when the general media assumes that your just of group of violent irresponsible mysogenists, and then you make a forum topic called "lets collectively lol @ these "I need feminism because..." pics, how exactly you making your demographic look better? You complain about people not taking video games seriously and insulting you, and then you laugh at others genuine call for civility. This isnt even about feminism, its about being a decent human being and deciding what exactly to laugh at. its one thing to disagree with the arguements the people in these pictures are making and talk about them, but the title is literally saying 'lets laugh at these idiots'. And didnt we have an even recently about video gamers freuenting the words rape and *****, and the 'contributing to rape culture' didnt resonate with anyone?

I need feminism because....

Too many people still think its something to laugh at.
Excellently said, very well put.

Of course, the very people who want to laugh at feminism are those who think that people who complain about gamers being misogynists and contributing to rape culture are overreacting and hypersensitive. So the irony will be missed on them, unfortunately.
 

Odbarc

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Jun 30, 2010
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I need feminism because dinner dates are expensive and I like my 50% off coupon.
 

Quadocky

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Shock and Awe said:
Well if the things you are bringing up were the norm for the modern feminist movement there would be no issue, because really it ceases to be feminist and is (at the risk of sounding like Amon) Equalist. Unfortunately this isn't the driving force behind the movement today. In fact its a lot like modern Christian Conservative movements in which it mainly just reacts violently towards things it doesn't like. A good example of a look at modern feminism is at what happened at the University of Toronto when Warren Farrel tried to give a lecture there. (Link [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0]) Instead of acknowledging problems like you and the people you referenced have they basically just cover their ears, close their eyes, and scream "patriarchy" over and over. Thats the modern feminist movement. Its not fighting against the draft or equal pay for equal work, its about talking "rape culture" and "patriarchy" and other nasty sounding buzz words.
Correction: that is an example of a Warren Farrel being held accountable for his ideas, not a 'look at modern Feminism'.
 

Quadocky

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Darken12 said:
Cellseam said:
Video Gamers...

Arent you always arguing how you hate when the general media assumes that your just of group of violent irresponsible mysogenists, and then you make a forum topic called "lets collectively lol @ these "I need feminism because..." pics, how exactly you making your demographic look better? You complain about people not taking video games seriously and insulting you, and then you laugh at others genuine call for civility. This isnt even about feminism, its about being a decent human being and deciding what exactly to laugh at. its one thing to disagree with the arguements the people in these pictures are making and talk about them, but the title is literally saying 'lets laugh at these idiots'. And didnt we have an even recently about video gamers freuenting the words rape and *****, and the 'contributing to rape culture' didnt resonate with anyone?

I need feminism because....

Too many people still think its something to laugh at.
Excellently said, very well put.

Of course, the very people who want to laugh at feminism are those who think that people who complain about gamers being misogynists and contributing to rape culture are overreacting and hypersensitive. So the irony will be missed on them, unfortunately.
That is probably one of the most aggravating things as they are saying "WELL ITS YOUR FAULT FOR EXISTING!"
 

darkfox85

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matthew_lane said:
Hahahahahahaha, no. I'm sorry, but this one is objectively a big old no. If i have an engineering degree i'm taught how to become an engineer... If you have a womens study degree you are equipped to become a.... woman? A study? a what? I mean women studies is right up there with philosophy as a major... Heck once you've finished a degree in either you only need to learn six more words to be employable: Would you like fries with that.
Every time I post in threads like these I get a sickening lurch in my stomach, and I know I'm going to regret this, but I just couldn?t pass without saying this is one the snobbiest and most vitriolic things I?ve read in a while without being cartoonish.

I hate the picture as well because it?s obviously fake but you are fucking, loathsome.
 

Insanely Asinine

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theultimateend said:
BreakfastMan said:
Well, this thread is going to go to crap faster than I can snap my fingers. And I can snap my fingers pretty damn fast.

OT: Most are valid, but there are a few I disagree with. Not much more to say than that... Also, obligatory "not all feminists are second-wave, Andrea Dworkin-type people", because I know someone is going to try to straw-man feminists sometime soon.
Is it possible to snap your fingers slowly?
Yes it makes the faintest of sounds like a fart from a goldfish with half the smell.
 

Terminal Blue

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TheLion said:
Which kinda begs the question; if the average woman isn't concerned with feminism beyond equal pay, body image, and sexual harassment, how relevant is this neo-feminist goal of destroying gender roles?
I wonder if maybe you aren't following what I said to its proper conclusion.

There is no singular "feminist movement", there is certainly no "neo-feminist" movement, so there is no goal. The theory gives us ways of examining gendering practices and inequalities in our society, it doesn't tell us what to do with that. The theory is not simple, it doesn't give rise to simple or predictable responses, and if it did it would be very boring. There are some really weird permutations of feminist thought out there, generally they haven't been taken up by many people because they're not good arguments.

You're acting like feminists are not people, like their ideas and opinions aren't part of "the will of people". As mentioned, almost everyone accepts certain assumptions at this point which they would not have been able to reach without feminism. We generally believe that men and women are equal and should both have some autonomy to dictate the course of their own lives, we may not put it into practice all the time, but we are more conscious of it than ever before. Sixty years ago this whole way of thinking was radical, today it is ubiquitous.

Again, isn't this just a variation of the argument that "social norms of today must exist for a reason, therefore we shouldn't try to change them". All social norms change, and they do so in response to social action and the kinds of debates which are happening on this very thread. If you can make an argument which is strong and convincing, that argument can change society.

Society is going to change. Gender roles are going to change. It may not be feminism which does that, it certainly won't be feminism alone, but feminism will continue to have its place in the day to day negotiation of these things, just as it has for a while now.

TheLion said:
I was never caught up on that idea of it being a women-only club, in fact I am a feminist by the classical definition. I'm saying that it seems very few people want to apply the more esoteric aspects of feminist theory to everyday life, and unless The People choose to implement those ideas, they're going to remain in the Ivory Tower. In other words, I'm concerned that feminism is beginning to represent no one, male or female.
You can scoff at the ivory tower, but the people living there are still people. What they think and believe is no more esoteric to them than what you think and believe. If theory can't survive contact with the world, even just through the experience of its creator, then it would never exist in the first place.

I don't know how far back you consider "classical feminism" to go, but it's likely your own beliefs began in the ivory tower, among a small number of relatively elite academics, writers or theoreticians who I'm sure were told at every turn that they were just a tiny minority, that they were utopian dreamers and dangerous social radicals who wanted to disrupt the natural order or were trying to deny reality, or that they were psychologically damaged and delusional, that their beliefs (grounded as they were in their own experience) couldn't possibly be meaningful in the lives of anyone in the real world because, you know, they weren't normal people, and they certainly weren't important people.

You want politics without theory, and that's not possible. Every world-changing idea has to start as theory.
 

Shock and Awe

Winter is Coming
Sep 6, 2008
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Quadocky said:
Shock and Awe said:
Well if the things you are bringing up were the norm for the modern feminist movement there would be no issue, because really it ceases to be feminist and is (at the risk of sounding like Amon) Equalist. Unfortunately this isn't the driving force behind the movement today. In fact its a lot like modern Christian Conservative movements in which it mainly just reacts violently towards things it doesn't like. A good example of a look at modern feminism is at what happened at the University of Toronto when Warren Farrel tried to give a lecture there. (Link [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0]) Instead of acknowledging problems like you and the people you referenced have they basically just cover their ears, close their eyes, and scream "patriarchy" over and over. Thats the modern feminist movement. Its not fighting against the draft or equal pay for equal work, its about talking "rape culture" and "patriarchy" and other nasty sounding buzz words.
Correction: that is an example of a Warren Farrel being held accountable for his ideas, not a 'look at modern Feminism'.
So screaming hyperbole and trying to block doors to keep people from hearing hims is "being held accountable"? I thought that is was pretty generally accepted that its better to make a well constructed counter argument then to just scream and drown people out.
 

DevilWithaHalo

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Cellseam said:
Video Gamers...
Your first mistake was assuming a great deal about the character of the individuals on this thread merely because they happen to share a hobby. Case in point...
Cellseam said:
Arent you always arguing how you hate when the general media assumes that your just of group of violent irresponsible mysogenists,
...some of us know that we are not a group of violent, irresponsible, "misogynists". People have a right to their opinion, regardless of how incorrect it is. The odd part is that you are blaming others for the "medias" representation of you. Some people try, some people don't care and some people like trolling others for the lulz because other people won't change their opinion.
Cellseam said:
and then you make a forum topic called "lets collectively lol @ these "I need feminism because..." pics, how exactly you making your demographic look better?
Are we suppose to? Unless you're the typical gamer, who comes to a gaming website to join a gaming forum to talk about gaming; you're probably someone looking for something to take completely out of context to run on the front page of "omglookatthesetsupidgamerslol" magazine.

If you would like to elevate the stereotypical gamer demographic; one thing you could try to do is stop insulting every other gamer that happens to hold a different opinion than you do.
Cellseam said:
You complain about people not taking video games seriously and insulting you,
Just from my personal perspective, the complaints seem to focus more on how videogames are perceived as more than an entertainment choice and art form. You know; those people that claim the likes of MWF are training regiments for the likes of Columbine.

But I suppose you're absolutely right, we must remember that there are people that feel the need to come in an insult us because they having nothing productive to add to the conversation... like... yourself.
Cellseam said:
and then you laugh at others genuine call for civility.
It would be one thing if that's actually what they did, something along the lines of; "Hey, could you consider my feelings when you make comments about my choices? Maybe not be a dick to fat people because you don't find them attractive?" I doubt you would find many that would oppose such ideas. But that's not what they did was it? No, it was "smash patriarchy beauty standards" and "rape culture".
Cellseam said:
This isnt even about feminism,
Um... it kind of is. You can't really say "I need FEMINISM" isn't about feminism. Sure, I've argued similar saying it has more to do with their personal issues; but they brought feminism into it, not us.
Cellseam said:
its about being a decent human being
So why do they need feminism then?
Cellseam said:
and deciding what exactly to laugh at.
I laugh at what I find funny. You don't get to decide what I can and cannot laugh at.
Cellseam said:
its one thing to disagree with the arguements the people in these pictures are making and talk about them,
That's exactly what I did. Thanks for grouping me together with those that come in to a thread just to make fun of people who are posting in it... like you.
Cellseam said:
but the title is literally saying 'lets laugh at these idiots'.
Then you knew what to expect; why are you surprised?
Cellseam said:
And didnt we have an even recently about video gamers freuenting the words rape and *****,
News to me, where is this video? Perhaps it was from a contributor that I don't like; therefore choose to ignore... a wonderful lesson people need to learn. We even have that nifty "ignore button" to help spare each other headaches. I've got a few people on my list.
Cellseam said:
and the 'contributing to rape culture' didnt resonate with anyone?
No, because rape culture is bullshit.
Cellseam said:
I need feminism because....

Too many people still think its something to laugh at.
Because sometimes it is. Feminism that works to insure women have the opportunity to live a long and productive life? How can I help? Feminism that works to insure I call fat women beautiful? Fuck off. Feminism that works to insure women are protected equally under the law? I'll support any way that I can. Feminism that blames a law abiding moral citizen for rape culture? Fuck off.
Darken12 said:
Excellently said, very well put.
Really? I felt like it could have gone through at least one round of spell check to be honest.
Darken12 said:
Of course, the very people who want to laugh at feminism are those who think that people who complain about gamers being misogynists and contributing to rape culture are overreacting and hypersensitive.
Well, that's because they are. The problem, as EviltheCat has been constantly railing against, is the idea that feminism is a cohesive all encompassing movement; when it's not. Similarly, that gaming is a cohesive community; when it's not. This really isn't about feminism vs gaming. This is about a small collection of overly sensitive "feminists" raging against certain games portrayals of women.

http://www.esrb.org/about/images/vidGames04.png
http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp
http://www.onlineeducation.net/videogame
http://www.grabstats.com/statcategorymain.aspx?StatCatID=13
http://www.themarysue.com/gaming-statistics/

Your blaming a demographic that is comprised of 40-50%ish females of being misogynist rape culture supporters? I laugh at that assertion. Really, the claims and the statistics never add up. And when it's pointed out, it makes many of them seem even more foolish when they cling to their inaccurate notions.

But hey, what were the top games of 20120?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2013/jan/11/us-top-10-games-2012

So which ones of those would we like to blame for being misogynist? Which ones supports rape culture?

Maybe 2011 was a more misogynist rape culture year... http://www.gamesradar.com/top-10-best-selling-games-2011-worldwide-includes-tons-warfare-and-dancing/

2010 perhaps? http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/01/14/the-best-selling-games-of-2010

Or maybe just everything together? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

Perhaps because Mario and Zelda are some of the best selling games of all time and people still buy them even though they've been recycled since they started; that fact they are both rescuing princess, must means the industry is misogynist and rapey.

Do you understand now? Do you get that those that look at a MASSIVE entertainment industry looking for confirmation bias will find it? I could pull the top 10 grossing films of 2012 and I'm sure the crazy "feminists" will be able to confirm their bias that they represent a rape culture full of misogyny. And I will laugh at them for it.
Darken12 said:
So the irony will be missed on them, unfortunately.
You really don't grasp the concept of irony do you?
 

Darken12

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Quadocky said:
That is probably one of the most aggravating things as they are saying "WELL ITS YOUR FAULT FOR EXISTING!"
This will happen, sadly, with every attempt at questioning the status quo. That is exactly how the privileged majorities react. They see the imbalances and inequities as normal and just, and any attempts to change that will seem to them unjust, unnecessary and malicious.

DevilWithaHalo said:
Well, that's because they are. The problem, as EviltheCat has been constantly railing against, is the idea that feminism is a cohesive all encompassing movement; when it's not. Similarly, that gaming is a cohesive community; when it's not. This really isn't about feminism vs gaming. This is about a small collection of overly sensitive "feminists" raging against certain games portrayals of women.
Whether that's true or not doesn't actually invalidate the points anyone might raise on the industry. In fact, I would wager that the "not all feminists think the same and not all gamers are alike" are diversion tactics to avoid dealing with the actual points being raised.

DevilWithaHalo said:
Your blaming a demographic that is comprised of 40-50%ish females of being misogynist rape culture supporters? I laugh at that assertion. Really, the claims and the statistics never add up. And when it's pointed out, it makes many of them seem even more foolish when they cling to their inaccurate notions.
Women do contribute to rape culture as well. Whenever a woman sees a rape report and says "well, no wonder she got raped, dressed like that..." she is contributing to rape culture. And that is but one example, of which there are very many. Nobody has ever said that women don't contribute to rape culture. Nobody said that women aren't misogynistic, either, as proven by books like 50 Shades of Grey, which are filled to the brim with male-worshipping misogyny, and are written and primarily consumed by women.

These facts do not make criticisms of misogyny any less valid.

DevilWithaHalo said:
Perhaps because Mario and Zelda are some of the best selling games of all time and people still buy them even though they've been recycled since they started; that fact they are both rescuing princess, must means the industry is misogynist and rapey.
Actually, the idea that women are a depersonalised ideal to inspire men to do great things, property to rescue from other men and prizes to award to the male hero for his heroism, do perpetuate the rape culture. But I wouldn't blame videogames exclusively for this, as literature, theatre and cinema have been doing it for far longer.

DevilWithaHalo said:
Do you understand now? Do you get that those that look at a MASSIVE entertainment industry looking for confirmation bias will find it? I could pull the top 10 grossing films of 2012 and I'm sure the crazy "feminists" will be able to confirm their bias that they represent a rape culture full of misogyny. And I will laugh at them for it.
Your argument seems to be that if I have a theory and find sufficient evidence of it, clearly I am crazy and my theory is invalid precisely because I have found sufficient evidence of it. That is so ridiculous it is actually hilarious.

DevilWithaHalo said:
You really don't grasp the concept of irony do you?
I have a sufficient grasp of it to recognise the multiple layers of irony in that very sentence, according to the context immediately preceding it.