An atmosphere does not 'hold in heat' better than a vacuum. In fact, nothing does. A vacuum is the best insulator known to man. The "average temperature in space" is misleading- empty space does not actually have a temperature. Temperature is something that matter has. The background radiation can be measured at about 2.73 Kelvin, but the "temperature" of the vacuum of space is no different than the "temperature" of a vacuum created on Earth with the lights turned off. Objects in space are only cold because they've had a very, very long time to radiate all of their heat away.Foshorror said:
Male Protagonists
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Recommended Videos
I feel that the "machos" place in gaming is for those games that are strictly to blow off steam. That's all they're good for.Therumancer said:
Leave the stories and adventures to the manly men.
As always, intelligently articulated valid points, oh Yahtzee master.
Massive muscles means you have devoted more than necessary time to physical training, you've only focused on the physical aspects as opposed to looking at strategies or other mental skills. Massive muscles also imply an unrealistic quality, much like the personality of the macho.arcstone said:
Like in Army of Two, perhaps? Not to be all "Simpsons did it".Dark Templar said:
In fairness, I did play Mercer as a decent-but-damaged individual who was in a terrible situation when I played through Prototype: I only engaged the military when absolutely necessary, and tried to minimize civilian casualties wherever/whenever possible (which admittedly would have been easier if they didn't insist on running right in front of my tank when I'm booking down a street at 60 mph).JBrasington said:
However, I am fairly certain that I'm in an especially small minority there (and I was less scrupulous in Hard mode, too), so good point anyway.
...
...Delicious Anathema said:
He's built like a macho man in Resi 5 (those ARMS), but his actual behaviour is manly, so yes, I agree. I think he's a great character (in the RE 'verse, anyway: take that as you will).
In regards to the Space Game:
Why would the engine freeze? Contrary to what Hollywood (or whatever your Australian equivalent is) might say, space is NOT cold. Nor is it hot. It is essentially the perfect insulator; convection heat transfer does not work. Nor would state changes be really practical. The only effective way to get rid of heat in space would be through radiation; concentrating the heat into specific points and emitting it as light and/or storing the energy in some sort of battery. Indeed, your engine wouldn't be liable to freeze up; it'd be more likely to overheat, burning fuel without the ability to dump excess heat in the form of propulsion.
Might I make a suggestion? You could have a stealth mode, where you don't move and don't emit radiation, making you much less detectable, but you run the risk of overheating. If your ship is powered by fusion, you could have a heavy water tank that served as both fuel and emergency coolant in case you run too hot.
Yeah, just a suggestion, take it as you will. Just keep in mind, if you have your engine start 'cooling off' and you aren't lighting up the sensors of every other ship for miles around (can't cool it off without emitting radiation massive amounts of radiation), there might be a problem with the game's realism.
Why would the engine freeze? Contrary to what Hollywood (or whatever your Australian equivalent is) might say, space is NOT cold. Nor is it hot. It is essentially the perfect insulator; convection heat transfer does not work. Nor would state changes be really practical. The only effective way to get rid of heat in space would be through radiation; concentrating the heat into specific points and emitting it as light and/or storing the energy in some sort of battery. Indeed, your engine wouldn't be liable to freeze up; it'd be more likely to overheat, burning fuel without the ability to dump excess heat in the form of propulsion.
Might I make a suggestion? You could have a stealth mode, where you don't move and don't emit radiation, making you much less detectable, but you run the risk of overheating. If your ship is powered by fusion, you could have a heavy water tank that served as both fuel and emergency coolant in case you run too hot.
Yeah, just a suggestion, take it as you will. Just keep in mind, if you have your engine start 'cooling off' and you aren't lighting up the sensors of every other ship for miles around (can't cool it off without emitting radiation massive amounts of radiation), there might be a problem with the game's realism.
Well, on the upside, Macho men won't be reproducing too much.
Interesting to hear about your ongoing game. The breaking-on-a-time-limit does sound like a great idea. Do you have any kind of temporary booster at all? Stopping on a dime is nice, but attempting to evade enemy fire when your only options are 'maintain speed or stop' seems a little... frustrating. Maybe boost speed could have the opposite problem of the engines being stopped (ie, rapid increase in temperature) and an even shorter life span...
Interesting to hear about your ongoing game. The breaking-on-a-time-limit does sound like a great idea. Do you have any kind of temporary booster at all? Stopping on a dime is nice, but attempting to evade enemy fire when your only options are 'maintain speed or stop' seems a little... frustrating. Maybe boost speed could have the opposite problem of the engines being stopped (ie, rapid increase in temperature) and an even shorter life span...
On the off-chance that Yahtzee notices this:
Considering your choice of Emgine Temperature as a mechanic in FSG:TG, in order to avoid a common trope that can lead to some jarring raised eyebrows, namely Space Is Cold, may I suggest you flip the terminology?
Space is a terribly good isolator, and if you are anywhere near a star, heat, praradoxically, not cold is your main problem in spacecraft operations. Assuming your craft is powered by some sort of near-eternal atomic/fusion/anti-matter/phlebotinum engine, let the problem with staying still be not that it freezes, but rather that the engine core builds up heat.
Venting the engine champer (by moving, and maybe as a later upgrade through a device that lets you remain stationary longer, if you want to go the route of upgrading crafts), cools it off again. Same mechanic, slightly more realistic reason.
Considering your choice of Emgine Temperature as a mechanic in FSG:TG, in order to avoid a common trope that can lead to some jarring raised eyebrows, namely Space Is Cold, may I suggest you flip the terminology?
Space is a terribly good isolator, and if you are anywhere near a star, heat, praradoxically, not cold is your main problem in spacecraft operations. Assuming your craft is powered by some sort of near-eternal atomic/fusion/anti-matter/phlebotinum engine, let the problem with staying still be not that it freezes, but rather that the engine core builds up heat.
Venting the engine champer (by moving, and maybe as a later upgrade through a device that lets you remain stationary longer, if you want to go the route of upgrading crafts), cools it off again. Same mechanic, slightly more realistic reason.
This is pretty much what I was going to suggest. Assuming it has some kind of fusion drive core or something which is always running, and they're *not* throwing ions out the back to keep the ship moving (and not otherwise radiating heat away) it's going to heat up like mad, potentially melting and/or frying everyone in the ship. And if they do start radiating more heat to compensate, their stealth level will be decreasing rapidly (assuming enemies have thermal sensors, which seems likely).Maulkin said:
Even with some other kind of drive core that doesn't produce heat or can be instantly switched on or off, radiation is required to get rid of body heat from the crew, or it'll get really uncomfortable.
This again. It's uncanny how I got more quotes for saying "space isn't cold" than for the actual topic of macho men.Foshorror said:
No, space isn't cold. Temperature is a property of matter, and deep space has surprisingly little. The background temperature of 3 Kelvin merely means that any exposed matter will radiate heat until it reaches that temperature, but unlike heat transfer (in a medium such as air or water), heat radiation is a slow process. Space isn't "hot" in the vicinity of a star, it isn't anything. There's nothing to be heated. It's just that sunlight still hits anything drifting around, and without an insulation from an atmosphere, the thing heats up really fast.
And no, an engine running with no radiators will not have trouble keeping warm; in fact, it'll likely melt itself. Operating a rocket engine produces enormous amounts of heat, which is all fine while you're in the atmosphere, since the heat is transferred to the surrounding air. While you're in space, the heat has nowhere to go via conduction since the ship is touching nothing, and it's created at a far greater pace than it is radiated.
The "faulty cooling system that keeps pumping even when the engines are off" sounds much more plausible, and it actually explains the effect that Yahtzee wants. Especially if it's the future and cooling technology has become awesome - except when you can't shut it down.
Male Commander Shepard fits both descriptions perfectly. Manly man paragon, macho man renegade. Would have liked the voice actor to put a little more effort and emotion into his voice, but we'll see with ME3.
Had to slim down the quote, so this post wasn't wayyy too long =)InterAirplay said:
Anyway, I know what kind of character he is talking about...Marcus Phoenix. But, the fact of the matter is....I really like Marcus as a character. Before I get people saying that I am a 13 year old XBL kid who thinks that is what it means to be a real man; I am 19, and have dial-up (so no XBL). I, personally, don't want a protagonist that is vulnerable or soft; I just want a badass who blows **** up!
I don't know about anyone else, but I play video games to feel powerful (i know this says something about my psychological state, but lets not go into that right now....i'm looking at you Freud...), and not to play as the average Joe in an unaverage situation. To me, these characters are the escapism I'm looking for in games. But, it all boils down to personal taste; so there is nothing I can say to change anyone's mind, I'm simply trying to state why I, personally, like characters like Marcus Phoenix.
Being a mans man, who likes to blow shit up doesn't necessarily make a character macho (in Yahtzees terminology). You also don't have to be a suave softie to be manly rather than macho. The problem comes when you stray into Stupid Evil territory.
I find it difficult to play the evil or brutal person in games that allow those sorts of choices, and usually find the bad-for-badassness-sake character less interesting for much the same reason. Take f.inst Fallout 3: The choice to blow up Megaton is a good way to get an early jumpstart on being bad. But it feels utterly retarded to me that you would do it, even if you were an evil fuck who didn't care for the people: What could Tenpenny possibly offer you, that you couldn't get or steal in the town he proposes you blow up? You are hurting your own cause for a bit of cash and a chance to show you are a real bastard. Yay??
The "macho" characters often do this: shout angrily at people who are supposed to be allies, use explosives and guns as the first and only solution to any problem. They are, in a word, shallow, and often rather stupid in how they go about their particular apocalyptic crisis. Give us badass protagonists by all means; explosions, powerarmor and BFGs are cool enough. Just hand them a brain on the way out, please.
I find it difficult to play the evil or brutal person in games that allow those sorts of choices, and usually find the bad-for-badassness-sake character less interesting for much the same reason. Take f.inst Fallout 3: The choice to blow up Megaton is a good way to get an early jumpstart on being bad. But it feels utterly retarded to me that you would do it, even if you were an evil fuck who didn't care for the people: What could Tenpenny possibly offer you, that you couldn't get or steal in the town he proposes you blow up? You are hurting your own cause for a bit of cash and a chance to show you are a real bastard. Yay??
The "macho" characters often do this: shout angrily at people who are supposed to be allies, use explosives and guns as the first and only solution to any problem. They are, in a word, shallow, and often rather stupid in how they go about their particular apocalyptic crisis. Give us badass protagonists by all means; explosions, powerarmor and BFGs are cool enough. Just hand them a brain on the way out, please.
Isn't it a bit unfair to lump WW Prince in with the Macho crowd?
Sure, he's all angry and has tattoos on his arm, but other than that he still pretty much fits the "manly" description. Armour that's both streamlined and protective, swords designed for swift, acrobatic combat, and he doesn't have Liefeldian muscle mass. So really the only macho part was the personality, and even then he still managed to display some emotion other than just "Grr Grr Death Grr", specifically, "For the first time in my life, I am scared." Really, the only reason he was always angry was because he had no friends around to calm him down a bit. Or at the very least, some soothing tea.
Sure, he's all angry and has tattoos on his arm, but other than that he still pretty much fits the "manly" description. Armour that's both streamlined and protective, swords designed for swift, acrobatic combat, and he doesn't have Liefeldian muscle mass. So really the only macho part was the personality, and even then he still managed to display some emotion other than just "Grr Grr Death Grr", specifically, "For the first time in my life, I am scared." Really, the only reason he was always angry was because he had no friends around to calm him down a bit. Or at the very least, some soothing tea.
I actually came across a game a while back about a power-armored space marine type guy, except he was polite and actually soft-spoken. Kinda caught my attention a bit.
Shame the game sucked. And sucked hard.
*EDIT*
Oh, and if you want a very well done character that falls under the "can't do anything too well except kill", try watching Soldier.
Stars Kurt Russel as a man who was trained from birth to be a soldier, and nothing but.
Says maybe 40 words the whole film, and yet he MAKES the film. And when he does speak, his voice is very soft. And his backstory gives a good reason for him being crappy at housework. The guy was taken as a kid and raised to be a soldier, with no chance to get anything else. And yet, at the same time, he has emotions. Even if he's very poor at showing them in a normal manner.
Shame the game sucked. And sucked hard.
*EDIT*
Oh, and if you want a very well done character that falls under the "can't do anything too well except kill", try watching Soldier.
Stars Kurt Russel as a man who was trained from birth to be a soldier, and nothing but.
Says maybe 40 words the whole film, and yet he MAKES the film. And when he does speak, his voice is very soft. And his backstory gives a good reason for him being crappy at housework. The guy was taken as a kid and raised to be a soldier, with no chance to get anything else. And yet, at the same time, he has emotions. Even if he's very poor at showing them in a normal manner.
I felt that the original Dead to Rights Jack Slate was actually a fairly balanced character. He wasn't overly muscular, had a normal sounding voice, and made genuinely funny one liners. Not only that, but was blindsided by a woman he trusted even though he shouldn't have. Of course Dead to Rights 2 just turned him into a walking pile of muscles and rage, but that's another story. Overall, I feel that the whole professional wrestler, over the top psycho man is something that needs to by and large go away. There are times when it could be appropriate, in games where all you're doing is screaming and hitting things, but in a game that's supposed to have a decent story line, the main character should not be a walking pile of muscles and rage.