Mar-A-Lago Raid

SilentPony

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Oh look, an ex-White House official under Trump is using the unredacted names of the FBI agents listed in the warrant Trump leaked to Breitbart to look of the agents' emails, work phones, addresses and their childrens' names and social media.
But we better not do anything about that, or they might get mad.
 
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Silvanus

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So would not doing it because the Republican plan is to not have elections anymore and just take over and no one is stopping them because it would be too politically damaging to NOT let them destroy the nation.
So I guess that's it then. Republicans win. The democracy is over, time of death 12:45 pm.
Stop equating an objection over one specific impossible approach with an objection to any action whatsoever. This is silly hyperbole.
 
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SilentPony

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Stop equating an objection over one specific impossible approach with an objection to any action whatsoever. This is silly hyperbole.
Except your alternative, just vote, is laughable. Its old fashioned. Its before Jan 6th levels of old school. It won't work. The GOP is already putting in party loyalists in the county and state clerk level to actually count the votes, and establishing new laws to give state legislators the power to overturn their state's vote total and select their own electors.
They're literally removing the power of the vote. No amount of "vote more, vote harder" matters if they just declare your vote to be non-canon. I said it earlier, you're playing on the honor system and Republicans are fresh out of honor.
 

Silvanus

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Except your alternative, just vote, is laughable. Its old fashioned. Its before Jan 6th levels of old school. It won't work.
Gonna just stop you right there and remind you again that my alternative is not "just vote". I've already given several other actions I'd want taken.
 

Trunkage

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So is letting them get away with it. We have people declaring open war against the Government and Democrats, and the response is oh well? Sucks to be them?
How about expel members of Congress that support the Big Lie? Or the calls to arms? How about holding any Republican to any legal standard at all?
'cause at this point it really does seem like your position is let them kill Democrats and take over the Government, because we'd hate to do anything to rile them up and cause them to act out. I believe we call this the Chamberlain Approach.
Fascists will lie

It doesn't matter if you do something about it. They will lie and turn it against you

It doesn't matter if you DON'T do something about it. They will lie and turn it against you

Fascists will use anything to win and pretend to be the victim.
 
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Seanchaidh

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Oh look, an ex-White House official under Trump is using the unredacted names of the FBI agents listed in the warrant Trump leaked to Breitbart to look of the agents' emails, work phones, addresses and their childrens' names and social media.
But we better not do anything about that, or they might get mad.
oh no, not harm coming to FBI agents
 

Agema

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Except your alternative, just vote, is laughable. Its old fashioned. Its before Jan 6th levels of old school. It won't work. The GOP is already putting in party loyalists in the county and state clerk level to actually count the votes, and establishing new laws to give state legislators the power to overturn their state's vote total and select their own electors.
They're literally removing the power of the vote. No amount of "vote more, vote harder" matters if they just declare your vote to be non-canon. I said it earlier, you're playing on the honor system and Republicans are fresh out of honor.
Yes, there's a reason that they are inviting people like Viktor Orban over and hailing them as heroes, as Orban is at the forefront of degrading democratic rule.

But it also stands that if the American public are not inclined to stop them, then - as a whole - they get everything they deserve. Voting is a perfectly viable way to stop these GOP plans: it's just the US public won't, because the ones who might care are so complacent.
 
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Schadrach

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It really depends. Relevant to their search for top secret docs? Yeah, probably grabbed more than they needed. But if they're just regular presidential docs, that's still needs to be taken. Trump doesn't own shit, the US government does. And he can't just declare its all his. That's not how presidential archives works.
Sure, but again, one would imagine the FBI wasn't terribly discriminatory when seizing documents - it's likely that some non-government docs got seized in the process, and he's got every right to request those be returned.

Wait until you hear about civil forfeiture. The police can just assume your possessions are going to commit a crime and just take them. Happens all the time down here in St. Louis. The police think your $200 cash is suspicious. You're not suspicious, the cash is. So they just take the cash. And as cash isn't a citizen or entitled to due process, its just their cash now. Same with cars, expensive jewelry, booze. It really is just a way for the cops to steal from citizens.
Technically, property taken in civil forfeiture is subject to due process (and the claim against it is that it either was used in or was obtained using the proceeds of a crime). You can defend the property legally to get it returned, but it's not guaranteed and the cost of doing so is prohibitive enough that anything under ~$10,000 is going to cost you significantly more than replacement value. And it's held to a lower standard of evidence than criminal proceedings, so it only has to be slightly more likely than not that the accused drug dealer paid some part of his mortgage with drug money at least once for his house to be forfeit.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Fascists will lie

It doesn't matter if you do something about it. They will lie and turn it against you

It doesn't matter if you DON'T do something about it. They will lie and turn it against you

Fascists will use anything to win and pretend to be the victim.
Like when the Democrats said Trump wasn't a legitimate president over and over and over again...
 

Casual Shinji

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'Nuh-uh, the democrates!'

I'm sure MAGA facists have t-shirts with that printed on it.
 

SilentPony

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So now Trump is saying they took his passports. This means one of 3 things:
1. He's lying. This is the most likely.
2. They took them by accident. This is the least likely.
3. This investigation is WAY further along than we thought and they DoJ considers Trump a flight risk and a judge agreed. And you're only a flight risk when they think you'll flee to avoid prosecution. This is the middle ground likely one.
 
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Trunkage

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Like when the Democrats said Trump wasn't a legitimate president over and over and over again...
Hillary claimed that Trump did Jan 6 at Putin request

I don't believe a word of it. Hillary is a war hawk which is pretty close to faacie. It's probably good that she wasn't president during this Ukraine war
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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So now Trump is saying they took his passports. This means one of 3 things:
1. He's lying. This is the most likely.
2. They took them by accident. This is the least likely.
3. This investigation is WAY further along than we thought and they DoJ considers Trump a flight risk and a judge agreed. And you're only a flight risk when they think you'll flee to avoid prosecution. This is the middle ground likely one.
I think (2) is not so unlikely.

It's not like the cops enter your property, then set up camp in your sitting room for 2 weeks ordering takeaway pizza, pissing in your golden toilet and sleeping in your spare four-poster bedroom whilst they go through everything, just to make sure they don't accidentally cart away something irrelevant. They just look for things that might be suspicious or need to be checked out in more detail, and cart it all back to HQ for analysis. If your passports were stored with other sensitive-seeming material, they might well get swept up with the rest.
 

twistedmic

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Hillary claimed that Trump did Jan 6 at Putin request

I don't believe a word of it. Hillary is a war hawk which is pretty close to faacie. It's probably good that she wasn't president during this Ukraine war
Hillary would have handled the Covid pandemic far better. She would have handled a lot of things better and she wouldn’t have damaged America’s global standing or wasted time and money on a ineffective vanity project.
 

Eacaraxe

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Sure, but again, one would imagine the FBI wasn't terribly discriminatory when seizing documents - it's likely that some non-government docs got seized in the process, and he's got every right to request those be returned.
This is the fuckin' FBI we're talking about. They're competent at precisely two things: straw purchasing on the federal dime for violent right-wing extremists, and illegally surveilling and detaining civil rights activists (when not just summarily executing them).

Would not surprise me in the least if a fix is already in given the proliferation of ghost skins in federal law enforcement; likely, a convenient chain of custody violation or due process failure to render key evidence (if any was gathered) inadmissible.
 

Trunkage

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Hillary would have handled the Covid pandemic far better. She would have handled a lot of things better and she wouldn’t have damaged America’s global standing or wasted time and money on a ineffective vanity project.
She definitely would have dealt with Covid better. That doesn't mean she gets a second term. It also doesn't mean she wouldn't have A) kept the US in Afghanistan B) started a war with Rusdia.

Note: I think Trump would have perhaps bumbler himself into doing both these