McDonald's incident

[RaikuFA]

There were plenty of other options open to him.[/quote]

ive said it before and ill say it again: MANAGERS DONT DO SHIT!!! THEY ARE LIKE TEACHERS WHEN IT COMES TO BULLYING, THEY TURN THE OTHER WAY!!!

Still leaves your coworkers, several places where you can go where this woman cannot follow and the police. Cutting option A out of the problem still leaves options B,C and D.

and what have the coworkers get fired over it? you know theyd get fired for even touching her

 

[Engarde]

So because someone argues with me and slaps me the majority thinks I am in the right to knock them to the ground with a metal bar? Everyone deserves the sentence they received, it seems.

You don't see the difference between "argue and slap" and "jump the counter and chase after someone in their place of work"?

Law is the law. I still don't see the need to knock someone to the floor with a metal bar, but a valid point nonetheless.

 

[ckam]

The metal rod was uncalled for, but so was the jumping and the actual initiating of the fighting by the women. I wouldn't say she deserved it, but please expect retaliation when you start a fight.

 

[Vivi22]

so... someone smacks you with their purse as you walk away, jumps over a counter in order to continue beating you and you wouldn't do anything to retaliate what so ever?

I wouldn't need a metal rod to defend myself against two unarmed women. The response was absolutely not proportionate to the threat they presented in that video. Not only did he hit them with the rod, knocking them to the floor, but he clearly continued to hit them once they were down. Just because he was defending himself does not give him a free pass to use whatever amount of force he feels like exercising at the time. That was excessive.

 

[Darius Brogan]

It was never self defense? In what way? He obviously tried to walk away. They obviously intended to prevent that, and assaulted him. Regardless of whether or not they were using deadly weapons, they assaulted the man with the intent of causing bodily harm. When he fought back, it was self defense. The fact that he got carried away is directly related to his prior anger management issues.

The simple fact that he tried to walk away is evidence enough that he was attempting to avoid physical conflict, and these women wouldn't let him walk away. His reaction is perfectly understandable given his mental stability, and the situation at hand.

Like I said, that's the law in Massachusetts. If you punch me in the face, I can't take a hammer and hit you with it multiple times. But that doesn't matter, because he threw the defense out the window when he continued to attack her after she stopped being a threat.

He did, but sadly, its not we attempt to do, its what we end up doing. There are several people back there with him, most likely one of them is a manager. There is probably a door leading outside back there and there is probably a good chance that there is a phone back there to call the cops should he need to.

There were plenty of other options open to him.

Yes, there was probably a plethora of alternative options open to most people, however, he has a history of violence, and is more than likely not completely stable.
His reaction to the situation is exactly was would be expected of someone with major anger issues.

If you noticed when he grabbed the bar, he had to seriously reach over the back, telling me that there wasn't much opportunity to get into the back via an open path, and he therefore couldn't have gone out the back door.

The two women deliberately penned him in so he couldn't get away from them, presumably so they could continue their verbal and physical assault.

The simple fact that the man attempted to walk away in the first place, given his mental instability, is a sign of self control. When the women penned him in, it was obviously the end of his rope.

 

[RaikuFA]

Still leaves your coworkers, several places where you can go where this woman cannot follow and the police. Cutting option A out of the problem still leaves options B,C and D.

While I disagree with the person you quoted's hatred for managers.. who are almost always as helpless in situations like this as staff...

...most fast food places do NOT have somewhere you can go that this woman cannot follow.. for health and safety reasons you can't just lock a place away that cannot be accessed. The best I suppose he could do, is lock himself in a staff toilet.

Of course.. that leaves your coworkers.. as I've posted before, there are reasons people work in fast food and for the most part that is because they are teenagers... so a fully grown adult should leave a bunch of teenagers to deal with a violent threat?

As for the police.. well, they take time to get there.

which is exactly why they turn the other way to leave the lower class to the abuse

 

[Craorach]

Law is the law. I still don't see the need to knock someone to the floor with a metal bar, but a valid point nonetheless.

First thing that comes to hand in a moment of violence.

Frankly, there are many FAR more dangerous things he could have done or used. Just as an example off the top of my head, a fryer basket fresh from 200 degree oil.

 

[Raddra]

The youtube comments are quite mixed.. but considering all that happened, he had a right to defend himself. We cannot see what was going on below the counter, so we don't know what the thugs were doing. And we also cannot really hear because of the yelling person.

Youtube comment:

"The young man served 10 years, had a job and is trying to put his life back together. Some ghetto queen "thug wanna be's" called him a pussy and he did nothing. One of them slapped him in the face and he retreated to away from the confrontation. Both "thug wanna be's" jumped the counter and pursued. In many states multiple assailants allows the use of deadly force. He shouted at them to stay down they kept grabbing at him. He beat them until they stopped. Give him a medal.

 

[docSpitfire]

start as an act of self-defense

It was never self-defense. These people were not a threat to him and even if they were, you can't claim self-defense with a deadly weapon (such as a metal rod) unless they're equally armed. That's the law in Massachusetts, but regardless of where this is, he threw the self-defense idea out the window when he continued to beat her. He'll probably still get anger management, but he's going to go to those lessons via prison transport. You don't assault someone with a deadly weapon multiple times and not get thrown in jail because the person you were striking pissed you off. The world doesn't work that way.

It took place in New York where I'm guessing that law is not in effect.

Also if it had been insults and slapping, you'd be correct, it was the hopping over the counter and pursuing someone into the kitchen that suggests to me that they were going to continue to assault him, and I think anyone working a fast food job like that would assume the same.

Also are we looking at the same "metal rod" I mean that is not really a "lethal weapon" anymore than "heavy shoes" are. yes you could kill someone with that with enough repeated assault, but then again with enough repeated assault you can kill someone without a weapon. In my mind a deadly weapon would be more, gun, blade, baseball bat (mass of this is enough to kill a person in a single blow)

So I think he was justified in picking up the rod and threatening them, and if they continued to approach (as self defense does not require that you actually be assaulted just that the reasonable threat of being attacked exists.) striking them as a means of defending himself. I do not think repeatedly striking them on the ground was justified (which is why I said it started as a defensive action but clearly he crossed the line from defense to aggression pretty quickly) I do think the charges he received were completely spot on.

Also quick note about one of your other posts (in which you mention he should have called a manager) if the NY McDonalds is anything like the ones I've been to on the west coast, the one in red not doing anything like the rest of the employees was either a shift-leader or a manager.

 

[JMV]

Hit me with a metal rod once, shame on me. Hit me with a metal rod several times, bashing my head in the process, shame on you.

 

[Aviyur]

Fuck it, maybe those cunts won't be so leary in the future. Infact I can pretty much guarantee they're very quiet now.

Even if you're an employee in a fast food joint you have a right to feel safe at your workplace. They got what they deserved.

They instigated and lost. Shit happens.

 

[TonyVonTonyus]

They deserve it. He could have been acting in self defense. If I worked at a store and two people jumped over the counter at me I'd try to beat them with a metal rod as well.

 

[Kurokami]

Who took a video of this and why?

They deserve it. He could have been acting in self defense. If I worked at a store and two people jumped over the counter at me I'd try to beat them with a metal rod as well.

You miss the point. Hitting a person when they try to assault you is fine, beating them senseless afterwords, that's not the same.

 

[Saltyk]

As soon as the guy hit the person who jumped over the counter when they were down on the ground - the worker was in the wrong.

At least in my state - Someone comes at me I will drop them like a bad habit. With a bat - gun or what ever. If I do anything to the person once they are down - I would be in the wrong. At least in my state.

For any carry permit holders out there - if you pull your piece and you fire when someone was on the ground - you are a criminal at that point. Guy in Oklahoma just got locked up for finishing off a guy trying to hold him up.

You can use deadly force if there is a threat. Not after the threat has passed.

Exactly. He was the "victim" until he started beating them senseless with a metal rod. He should have just gone to his manager and had them deal with the situation while he cooled off in the manager's office. Then, he would have been okay. Of course we don't know all the details. The video seems to start after the trouble had already started. And the link provided has no info other than what is already in the OP. For all we know, he cussed them out to begin with.

The guy in Oklahoma. Was he working at a Pharmacy? Because I recall hearing about a guy that worked at a Pharmacy stopping a robbery by two punk kids (they might have had guns). He shot the first one in the head, which apparently left him unconscious, and the other ran out. He returned and put about six more bullets in the kid's chest. It's really sad, because up until that point, the guy was a hero. He saved all the customers and his coworkers from who knows what fate (being robbed at minimal). But then he has to just be a complete psychopath and murder the defenseless punk. I think he was sentenced to life in prison, but maybe the death penalty, and he didn't think he had done anything wrong. Even his son thought he did the right thing.

I wonder how all these people saying that the women in this situation deserved being beaten would react to a story about a man killing a unconscious criminal.

 

[Moromillas]

The title should be 'McDonald's hero defends himself, gets arrested.'

 

[Torrasque]

start as an act of self-defense

It was never self-defense. These people were not a threat to him and even if they were, you can't claim self-defense with a deadly weapon (such as a metal rod) unless they're equally armed. That's the law in Massachusetts, but regardless of where this is, he threw the self-defense idea out the window when he continued to beat her. He'll probably still get anger management, but he's going to go to those lessons via prison transport. You don't assault someone with a deadly weapon multiple times and not get thrown in jail because the person you were striking pissed you off. The world doesn't work that way.

It took place in New York where I'm guessing that law is not in effect.

Also if it had been insults and slapping, you'd be correct, it was the hopping over the counter and pursuing someone into the kitchen that suggests to me that they were going to continue to assault him, and I think anyone working a fast food job like that would assume the same.

Also are we looking at the same "metal rod" I mean that is not really a "lethal weapon" anymore than "heavy shoes" are. yes you could kill someone with that with enough repeated assault, but then again with enough repeated assault you can kill someone without a weapon. In my mind a deadly weapon would be more, gun, blade, baseball bat (mass of this is enough to kill a person in a single blow)

So I think he was justified in picking up the rod and threatening them, and if they continued to approach (as self defense does not require that you actually be assaulted just that the reasonable threat of being attacked exists.) striking them as a means of defending himself. I do not think repeatedly striking them on the ground was justified (which is why I said it started as a defensive action but clearly he crossed the line from defense to aggression pretty quickly) I do think the charges he received were completely spot on.

Also quick note about one of your other posts (in which you mention he should have called a manager) if the NY McDonalds is anything like the ones I've been to on the west coast, the one in red not doing anything like the rest of the employees was either a shift-leader or a manager.

That is a good point about weapons, and I shall adress it.
As far as court cases go, "assault with a weapon" is probably just a technicality that means "assault with an extension of their body that has a certain potential to cause harm". That reminds of people who get a certain degree of martial arts, that "makes their hands count as deadly weapons". So as far as "assault with a weapon", it is just a technicality I don't really care for.
Of course, that doesn't rule out the fact that he still beat them with a metal rod. I just don't think "ZOMG METAL ROD! THIS GUY MUST BE THE FABLED ROD KILLER OF 98!". He could have just kicked them when they were down, and it would have been to the same effect.
Several people have exaggerated the damage that the metal rod could have done, and of course it shouldn't be ruled out, but it is not a lead pipe people...

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

Most comments on the TDW site say "bitches deserved it" which I have to agree with.
You don't poke an angry bear and then chase it into a corner.

I have to disagree. The bear analogy is fine until you remember that this is a rational human being who should know when to stop. Retaliation: fine. Beating them with a metal rod when they're down: not fine. That's taking it too far.

 

[Chiiru]

What happened to, "We reserve the right to refuse service"? Why didn't this individual just tell them to GTFO if they can't act like civilized customers (is that an oxymoron yet?)

 

[Saltyk]

Who took a video of this and why?

They deserve it. He could have been acting in self defense. If I worked at a store and two people jumped over the counter at me I'd try to beat them with a metal rod as well.

You miss the point. Hitting a person when they try to assault you is fine, beating them senseless afterwords, that's not the same.

From what I can tell, it looks like this was going on for a moment. Most likely the customer was upset about [insert minor blown out of proportion issue here] and started yelling at the cashier. Perhaps he yelled back or even started the yelling, we don't know. Some other random person then decides to record it for some reason-I'm betting they saw it as Youtube fodder-and catches something far different than what they actually expected.

Also, I agree. Self defense is one thing. But you can go way too far. This is one of those way too far instances.

 

[Jegsimmons]

1. mcDonald employees are assholes
2. Customers at mcDonalds are BIGGER assholes who turn the employees into assholes because they accidently gave the little bastard pickles in his happy meal when 7 people have to fill 100 orders in 10 minutes.
3. He should have used a bigger rod.