McDonald's incident

[Eggsnham]

Is anybody else a little disturbed by the fact that he killed one of his classmates?

I mean, I know he smacked a couple of bitchy customers with a metal rod, but jesus. The dude killed one of his classmates!

Besides, as far as we know, the people who got smacked are healthy.

 

[Furbyz]

<quote=thedailywh.at>McIntosh, who spent several years in prison for killing a high school classmate...

"Several years"?
Is that all you get for taking a life nowadays? Several years?

What happened to the death penalty, or life imprisonment for countries who don't have the former?
What is happening to this world where you can take the life from a young high school classmate and then just go out into the real world and get a job and get on with your life while the person you killed lies in a grave while you go along with his/her stolen years and next to nothing to pay for what you've done.

Why are people like this let back into society?

*insert long line of unprintable words here*

Spoiler: This is a good example of my feelings. But doesn't nearly do it justice.

First off, we don't know the circumstances of how the other person was killed. For all we know, it was a complete accident, DUI, or maybe even a kill or be killed situation. We don't know if it was murder. Perhaps you don't believe this, but life in prison or the death penalty are not always the best solutions when dealing with manslaughter. In some cases, yes, punishments are far too lenient. Without further information, I don't think it right to judge if they are in this case are not.

I'm guessing the guy was 16-18 when it happened and he was 31 at the time of this video. That's 13-15 years in jail, assuming he was a recent parolee. That's a maximum of 42-48% of this guy's life spent behind bars. In that context, I'm completely unsurprised that he resorted to such excessive means when actively and physically threatened by anyone.

Someone(don't remember who) asked how this guy got the job in the first place. My guess would be it is part of his parole requirements and his Parole Officer may have gotten it for him. Or it could be as simple as he lied on his resume.

 

[RaikuFA]

He was getting paid and everybody knows what they're getting into when they get a job in that industry. If you're not prepared to take shit from people, you shouldn't be in the fast food industry.

Let me make this quite clear... you represent everything that is wrong with the mindset of the fast food industry, and customer service industries in general.

There are NO circumstances in which it is acceptable to either verbally or, worse, physically, abuse someone who is just doing their job.

The customer service industry does a disgusting job of protecting it's staff from abuse by unreasonable individuals. The phrase "The Customer Is Always Right" has been discredited for the most part, but has left an indelible mark on these industries where people can get away with threatening and even performing violence for the tiniest of problems and not be dealt with.

Management in many of these companies are little more protected and able to deal with situations than the staff themselves. In fact, because the staff come from a wide variety of backgrounds, many of the staff are likely more capable. Both Staff and Management are paid pittance compared to other jobs, and expected to put up with the most atrocious abuse while knowing.. for certain.. that their company will not support them no matter what the situation.

Until you see the customer service industry doing what even, for example, my local rubbish tip, does for it's staff... protecting them from abuse and ensuring that anyone who is abusive is refunded and escorted from the premisses no matter what the situation, we will see incidences such as this.. where those of us who work in this industry know we have no choice but to protect ourselves and our own.

thank you. i work in retail and get abused a lot from people and i just get told "deal with i" and "the customer is always right" its immedietly discredited when you see a customer taking hundreds of dollars worth of merch saying its free because "the customer is always right"

Fully justified. He shouldn't have been charged with anything. Those two fucking cunts should have gotten some jail time, though.
If you're gonna jump over the counter or go behind the counter in any way, you FUCKING deserve what's coming to you. That something just so happened to be a metal rod.

Now those cunts are gonna remember not to fuck with people who have terrible McJobs.

"I just got assaulted by two customers. Rather then talk to my manager or call the cops, I'm going to severely beat this woman with a metal rod and possibly get thrown in jail for attempted murder in the 1st degree, because that seems like the logical thing to do right now."

Justified my ass. He was getting paid and everybody knows what they're getting into when they get a job in that industry. If you're not prepared to take shit from people, you shouldn't be in the fast food industry. By now its too late for hindsight and now two woman are mentally scarred for life and a man is in jail because everyone was being an goddamn idiot, but Mr. Mcintosh is probably the biggest idiot in that video simply because he was in the position to walk away and he chose not to. Now he's going to jail and he is facing a very serious felony charge, and you know what, I hope they convict his ass, because I don't want a man who thinks the best way out of a situation is to beat someone with a metal rod walking on the streets.

Considering one of them jumped over the counter in pursuit, and the other walked around the counter, I don't think he could have walked away if he wanted to.

There are at least 5 people back there, a manager, a phone to call the cops and at least one door. I'm pretty sure he could have got that ***** away from him without hitting her if he really wanted to.

ive said it before and ill say it again: MANAGERS DONT DO SHIT!!! THEY ARE LIKE TEACHERS WHEN IT COMES TO BULLYING, THEY TURN THE OTHER WAY!!!

 

[Darius Brogan]

Hey, I just noticed something about this incident. The end of the movie 'The Losers' is a perfect example of this situation. Jensen get in the refs face at his nieces soccer game, and the ref gets right pissy and starts calling him a loser and whatnot, trying to play the part of the big-tough-woman, not realizing that any one of the guys holding Jensen back, as well as Jensen himself, could take her apart joint by joint in their sleep.

You never know who you're insulting, or assaulting, so it's best to not do it.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

mentally scarred? are you kidding me? they attacked someone over counterfeit money, they deserve everything they got. just because someone works in retail dosent mean they have to take crap from others. its the equivelent of workplace bullying.

but then again with the type of attitude you have about retail youre the type of person who throws a tantrum if the cashier is wearing the wrong color shirt and demand a $50 gift card for it. or at least you agree with people who act like that.

I'm not saying they have to take that shit. I'm saying they need to expect it and work around it and find a way to preform their job calmly. If they cannot, they can deny service to that customer. Obviously this woman was acting aggressive, but that doesn't mean he should beat them with a METAL FUCKING ROD! And I don't know about you, but if some man who had a weapon in his hand was beating me senseless, I'd be pretty messed up too. You can hear the woman screaming in there, but he keeps fucking going. She may have been an idiot and a bully, but he just proved he's a psychopath. And if that's the equivalent to workplace bullying, then he just committed the equivalent of trying to kill your bully!

And I like the ad hominiem at the end. Ya, because apparently you can judge a man by a single post he made on the internet. Bravo sir, bravo.

I think you are both getting carried away with the size and strength of the metal rod, it does not appear to be very large or made of a particularly strong metal since it bends so easily after a few blows. Still probably hurts, but is not the +2 iron bludgeon that you guys make it seem.

Still constitutes a deadly weapon my friend and regardless of what you see, it still probably fucking hurts to bludgeoned with that thing. It doesn't take much to kill someone via bludgeoning either.

It was never self defense? In what way? He obviously tried to walk away. They obviously intended to prevent that, and assaulted him. Regardless of whether or not they were using deadly weapons, they assaulted the man with the intent of causing bodily harm. When he fought back, it was self defense. The fact that he got carried away is directly related to his prior anger management issues.

The simple fact that he tried to walk away is evidence enough that he was attempting to avoid physical conflict, and these women wouldn't let him walk away. His reaction is perfectly understandable given his mental stability, and the situation at hand.

Like I said, that's the law in Massachusetts. If you punch me in the face, I can't take a hammer and hit you with it multiple times. But that doesn't matter, because he threw the defense out the window when he continued to attack her after she stopped being a threat.

He did, but sadly, its not we attempt to do, its what we end up doing. There are several people back there with him, most likely one of them is a manager. There is probably a door leading outside back there and there is probably a good chance that there is a phone back there to call the cops should he need to.

There were plenty of other options open to him.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

ive said it before and ill say it again: MANAGERS DONT DO SHIT!!! THEY ARE LIKE TEACHERS WHEN IT COMES TO BULLYING, THEY TURN THE OTHER WAY!!!

Still leaves your coworkers, several places where you can go where this woman cannot follow and the police. Cutting option A out of the problem still leaves options B,C and D.

 

[mjc0961]

See, the women obviously deserve to be charged. The guy, I don't know. You can't see what's going on behind the counter. They could be trying to get up, they could have pulled out a weapon, we don't know from that film. If they were just lying there then yes, he was wrong too, but for all we know they were still trying to attack and he was justified in the continued beating.

Funny how stuff like that doesn't happen here. Makes you think there's something in the water over there. -.-

Nope. You guys just start riots and fight with police at soccer games. That's soooooo much better.

Thank you. I'm so sick of people from other countries acting like people in America are the only ones who have problems. They need to learn to stop and think about the fucked up things people in their own country have done before they decide to post some offensive bullshit that stereotypes an entire nation full of people. And if they don't, they need to be called out on it as often as possible. Seriously, most of the posts I see on this site anymore are pony garbage and people from countries with plenty of stupid people of their own acting like America is the only place where stupid people exist.

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

... Woah. That's... hmm...

Watching the video, I saw the first 2 hits which brought her to the gound swiftly, and stopped her attacking him. I was like "Well, at least he can say he was just defending himself."
But then he paused, thought about it, and then kept hitting her.

I mean...

They deserved to be beaten with a metal rod? That's too much for me to believe they deserved it. Honestly, that's a whole lot of violence to have "deserved it" in my book.
Then again, almost any amount of violence is too much for me so...

Pretty much this. In that kind of situation, you get a few other employee's help to push them out of the store. If they're still attacking, try to force them to the floor and call the police. That way, you've embarrassed them after they attacked you, they'll still get disciplinary action taken against them, and all the while you didn't cause them too much harm.
You don't, however, go beating them mercilessly with a metal rod, and the people who are saying they deserved to be horribly beaten with one should probably re-think that. >_>

 

[skullpile]

my only thoughts on that video are as always, is it really that hard to turn your phone 90 degrees to get a good video

 

[SovietX]

Threatening the she-beasts with the pipe probably would have been enough, even smacking a bench or fryer near by to scare them off.

He probably shouldn't have hit them with the rod but to be perfectly fair they did deserve some sort of immediate backlash. There is no reason for them to be acting like that, especially in a public place.

Both parties were to blame for this incident.

 

[Craorach]

Still leaves your coworkers, several places where you can go where this woman cannot follow and the police. Cutting option A out of the problem still leaves options B,C and D.

While I disagree with the person you quoted's hatred for managers.. who are almost always as helpless in situations like this as staff...

...most fast food places do NOT have somewhere you can go that this woman cannot follow.. for health and safety reasons you can't just lock a place away that cannot be accessed. The best I suppose he could do, is lock himself in a staff toilet.

Of course.. that leaves your coworkers.. as I've posted before, there are reasons people work in fast food and for the most part that is because they are teenagers... so a fully grown adult should leave a bunch of teenagers to deal with a violent threat?

As for the police.. well, they take time to get there.

 

[RaikuFA]

There were plenty of other options open to him.[/quote]

ive said it before and ill say it again: MANAGERS DONT DO SHIT!!! THEY ARE LIKE TEACHERS WHEN IT COMES TO BULLYING, THEY TURN THE OTHER WAY!!!

Still leaves your coworkers, several places where you can go where this woman cannot follow and the police. Cutting option A out of the problem still leaves options B,C and D.

and what have the coworkers get fired over it? you know theyd get fired for even touching her

 

[Engarde]

So because someone argues with me and slaps me the majority thinks I am in the right to knock them to the ground with a metal bar? Everyone deserves the sentence they received, it seems.

You don't see the difference between "argue and slap" and "jump the counter and chase after someone in their place of work"?

Law is the law. I still don't see the need to knock someone to the floor with a metal bar, but a valid point nonetheless.

 

[ckam]

The metal rod was uncalled for, but so was the jumping and the actual initiating of the fighting by the women. I wouldn't say she deserved it, but please expect retaliation when you start a fight.

 

[Vivi22]

so... someone smacks you with their purse as you walk away, jumps over a counter in order to continue beating you and you wouldn't do anything to retaliate what so ever?

I wouldn't need a metal rod to defend myself against two unarmed women. The response was absolutely not proportionate to the threat they presented in that video. Not only did he hit them with the rod, knocking them to the floor, but he clearly continued to hit them once they were down. Just because he was defending himself does not give him a free pass to use whatever amount of force he feels like exercising at the time. That was excessive.

 

[Darius Brogan]

It was never self defense? In what way? He obviously tried to walk away. They obviously intended to prevent that, and assaulted him. Regardless of whether or not they were using deadly weapons, they assaulted the man with the intent of causing bodily harm. When he fought back, it was self defense. The fact that he got carried away is directly related to his prior anger management issues.

The simple fact that he tried to walk away is evidence enough that he was attempting to avoid physical conflict, and these women wouldn't let him walk away. His reaction is perfectly understandable given his mental stability, and the situation at hand.

Like I said, that's the law in Massachusetts. If you punch me in the face, I can't take a hammer and hit you with it multiple times. But that doesn't matter, because he threw the defense out the window when he continued to attack her after she stopped being a threat.

He did, but sadly, its not we attempt to do, its what we end up doing. There are several people back there with him, most likely one of them is a manager. There is probably a door leading outside back there and there is probably a good chance that there is a phone back there to call the cops should he need to.

There were plenty of other options open to him.

Yes, there was probably a plethora of alternative options open to most people, however, he has a history of violence, and is more than likely not completely stable.
His reaction to the situation is exactly was would be expected of someone with major anger issues.

If you noticed when he grabbed the bar, he had to seriously reach over the back, telling me that there wasn't much opportunity to get into the back via an open path, and he therefore couldn't have gone out the back door.

The two women deliberately penned him in so he couldn't get away from them, presumably so they could continue their verbal and physical assault.

The simple fact that the man attempted to walk away in the first place, given his mental instability, is a sign of self control. When the women penned him in, it was obviously the end of his rope.

 

[RaikuFA]

Still leaves your coworkers, several places where you can go where this woman cannot follow and the police. Cutting option A out of the problem still leaves options B,C and D.

While I disagree with the person you quoted's hatred for managers.. who are almost always as helpless in situations like this as staff...

...most fast food places do NOT have somewhere you can go that this woman cannot follow.. for health and safety reasons you can't just lock a place away that cannot be accessed. The best I suppose he could do, is lock himself in a staff toilet.

Of course.. that leaves your coworkers.. as I've posted before, there are reasons people work in fast food and for the most part that is because they are teenagers... so a fully grown adult should leave a bunch of teenagers to deal with a violent threat?

As for the police.. well, they take time to get there.

which is exactly why they turn the other way to leave the lower class to the abuse

 

[Craorach]

Law is the law. I still don't see the need to knock someone to the floor with a metal bar, but a valid point nonetheless.

First thing that comes to hand in a moment of violence.

Frankly, there are many FAR more dangerous things he could have done or used. Just as an example off the top of my head, a fryer basket fresh from 200 degree oil.

 

[Raddra]

The youtube comments are quite mixed.. but considering all that happened, he had a right to defend himself. We cannot see what was going on below the counter, so we don't know what the thugs were doing. And we also cannot really hear because of the yelling person.

Youtube comment:

"The young man served 10 years,&#65279; had a job and is trying to put his life back together. Some ghetto queen "thug wanna be's" called him a pussy and he did nothing. One of them slapped him in the face and he retreated to away from the confrontation. Both "thug wanna be's" jumped the counter and pursued. In many states multiple assailants allows the use of deadly force. He shouted at them to stay down they kept grabbing at him. He beat them until they stopped. Give him a medal.

 

[docSpitfire]

start as an act of self-defense

It was never self-defense. These people were not a threat to him and even if they were, you can't claim self-defense with a deadly weapon (such as a metal rod) unless they're equally armed. That's the law in Massachusetts, but regardless of where this is, he threw the self-defense idea out the window when he continued to beat her. He'll probably still get anger management, but he's going to go to those lessons via prison transport. You don't assault someone with a deadly weapon multiple times and not get thrown in jail because the person you were striking pissed you off. The world doesn't work that way.

It took place in New York where I'm guessing that law is not in effect.

Also if it had been insults and slapping, you'd be correct, it was the hopping over the counter and pursuing someone into the kitchen that suggests to me that they were going to continue to assault him, and I think anyone working a fast food job like that would assume the same.

Also are we looking at the same "metal rod" I mean that is not really a "lethal weapon" anymore than "heavy shoes" are. yes you could kill someone with that with enough repeated assault, but then again with enough repeated assault you can kill someone without a weapon. In my mind a deadly weapon would be more, gun, blade, baseball bat (mass of this is enough to kill a person in a single blow)

So I think he was justified in picking up the rod and threatening them, and if they continued to approach (as self defense does not require that you actually be assaulted just that the reasonable threat of being attacked exists.) striking them as a means of defending himself. I do not think repeatedly striking them on the ground was justified (which is why I said it started as a defensive action but clearly he crossed the line from defense to aggression pretty quickly) I do think the charges he received were completely spot on.

Also quick note about one of your other posts (in which you mention he should have called a manager) if the NY McDonalds is anything like the ones I've been to on the west coast, the one in red not doing anything like the rest of the employees was either a shift-leader or a manager.