Monster Hunter Tri

[Anaklusmos]

I do love how all the MHT defenders are focusing exclusively on the "tutorial = 10 hours" thing. Because when your argument rests entirely on a literal approach to one particular bit of exaggeration in someone's article, you know you have righteousness on your side, for certain sure.

And I do love how the sheeple here ignore posts, which calmly and reasonably point out misconceptions about this game.

Calmy and reasonably?

 

[Anaklusmos]

Personally, I thought it worked well in the Elder Scrolls games. But there it was a very gradual thing, in which it would generally take 2-3 quests before your weapon showed any signs of deteriorating.

And unlike games like Far Cry, there was no chance that the weapons would spontaneously not work; they just did reduced damage.

AND, unlike Fallout, they were easy to repair. What I hated about Fallout's mechanic is that it meant you had to lug around 4-5 copies of whatever gun you were using just so you'd be able to use it until you got to the next area. Whereas 1 or 2 1lb hammers could see you stay at 100% weapon damage for hours on end.

I think the person meant it's just a bad, and annoying idea. Whether the mechanics of it are presented well or not.

Also, can we please shut up about the whole "IT'S NOT REALLY TEN HOURS OMG HE LIED AND IS A LIAR AND EVERY OPINION HE HAS SHOULD BE SUBSEQUENTLY DISCARDED BECAUSE OF THIS AND OTHER THINGS ON THIS CHART I'VE MADE." shtick? I'm sure people have gathered by now that it's not actually that length of time and he's either horrendous at playing games, or he was simply exaggerating to prove a point. This, on no level, invalidates his opinion of the game.

It does however put his credibility on the line. He made the game sound like it was nothing but boring thing without any fucking thing to do(not even giant boss monsters existed in his review), and that is why people got angry in the first place, because he was incorrect about the game. He is entitled to his opinion as you are to yours and me to mine, but it is a whole other thing to just rant and rant and rant about the tutorial(all the things that he rants about? Goes away on the NEXT QUEST).

And does that magically remove their presence from the beginning, then? You have to remember that first impressions are important. Very important.

Well, it actually does. The first real combat that you get into is really really really good. Somethings that Yahtzee mentioned in the review and the EP, goes away later on in the game(AT this point they go away). So what if the game starts on a bumpy road? Tell me one game that is just an amazing ride of awesomeness that makes you shit bricks from the beginning

Ratchet & Clank.

Resident Evil 4.

Resident Evil 2.

God of War.

Devil May Cry 1 and 3.

Saint's Row 2.

There you go.

I would also like to throw in Prototype, BioShock 1, and Batman (AA)

 

[Kavachi]

I was disappointed by the bad review (not that he said the game was bad, but that he reviewed it poorly). I have a little more respect that he actually took the time to progress through to the Great Jaggi battle and get more feel for the game. I don't care if someone doesn't like Monster Hunter, as long as it is judged by more than the tutorial.

However, how the hell did you spend 10 hours on the tutorial? It's five quick gathering missions. It should take a new player 2 hours max, as in they took so long to figure out how to even draw their weapon that it would take two hours max. You can't even spend 10 hours doing them without failing due to the 50 minute time limit on missions!

A review isn't made it bad because you don't agree, and if you don't agree and you think it's just a fine game he shouldn't really get to you. So you can either just play that shitty game and enjoy yourself instead of wasting time whining about things "mean old Yahtzee" said. Why do you even bother, attention problems?

And about the tutorial. It is Yahtzee, he is known for over-exagguration. 10 hours is indeed ridiculous, however 50X5=250mins= more than 4 hours, so you're 2 hour max is pretty idiotic. However a real tutorial I think should be like the one from Brütal Legend. A 5 minute mission to roll you in, not 4 bloody hours of gathering horse shit, which probably will feel like 10 hours. So next time think before you actually post your bullshit.

so you take the maximum time to finish all the quests? it is 50 min limit, not you have to sit there for 50 min even after you finish the objective. So 2 hour max is not idiotic.

You're right, review isn't made bade because one doesn't agree, but this is really a bad one. He has played the tutorial and judged the whole game just on that little part. It took me about an hour to get there, seeing as he's a critic he was probably exploring and such so maybe that's why it took him so long, but took me an hour, shouldn't take him more than 3 even if he was fooling around a lot. But that is not the point, the point is that he is wrong on certain things that he points out in the review, and that is why the review is bad, because it gives false impressions and wrong information

I knew someone would respond XD Maybe I got attention problems 2

All right: first of all, why would there be a max time if people don't take that long to do it? And 1 hour tutorial is still bullshit, when a tutorial takes longer than 15 minutes, I stop playing (the main reason I had to try Oblivion multiple times before I finally made it through the boring tutorial, great game though). And who are you to say he didn't played long enough, did you spy on him or something?
Also you're using the same argument that every MH3 lover says: It gets better later. And as many people already said, that argument is obselete because a game that is good has to take you in from the start. That is why I still think of Oblivion as a game that needs improvements, for I almost discarded it because of the horrible start. And Yahtzee discribed a boss battle, which will spawn those bosses everywhere, and getting a gather quest for it. That is also a thing that is just plainly bad. It also reminds me of Oblivion when all those bloody Oblivion gates open. It may be fun for 1 or 2 times, but when you stand inf ront of gate 25, it gets old. I did some more research and all over the internet those main points come to light. Yahtzee only exaggurates it, that doesn't mean his review is bad, for the information he gives is still correct.

 

[feather240]

Couldn't agree more. "It gets better later" is absolute bullshit. If it isn't good now, why the hell would I wait for it to get better?

A ten hour tutorial can fuck right off too.

Unless it's fun of course.

 

[golbleen]

Well Yahtzee did do fighting aswell as the herb picking and management tasks...how much more to the game is actually left to do after the time he spent...the combat doesn't magically get better

Spoiler alert but the combat in the tutorial against tiny little monsters is nothing liketo say, fighting boss monsters like Rathian or Barroth aside from the general control scheme being similar.

I'll repeat this for posterity, but the tutorial takes an hour or two tops. An hour or two. Two hours. If you were given a full week to play a game and give a professional opinion on it, would you only spend two hours on it?

All non-event quests have a time limit of fifty minutes. This doesn't mean the game expects you to spend that long on them; gathering quests should take ten to fifteen minutes each tops. Even fighting a giant boss monster with friends only takes around a half hour. Fifty minutes on a quest is roughly the point where a solo player is either doing something wrong, didn't bring enough healing items, or is still using an ancient, vastly outdated weapon. You're more likely to die than fail a quest due to the time limit.

The review would have been more credible if he had actually described the Great Jaggi fight ala the second page in the article instead of, say, spending two minutes nitpicking the short intro cinematic.

I'm going to reiterate this one more time.

Two hours. Two. Hours.

 

[Mindmaker]

Calmy and reasonably?

milskidasith for example.
He was making good points (which got ignored, as were mine) for more than a dozen pages before he got pissed (in the original thread).
As were some others, but he was the most noteworthy.

 

[troqu]

I was disappointed by the bad review (not that he said the game was bad, but that he reviewed it poorly). I have a little more respect that he actually took the time to progress through to the Great Jaggi battle and get more feel for the game. I don't care if someone doesn't like Monster Hunter, as long as it is judged by more than the tutorial.

However, how the hell did you spend 10 hours on the tutorial? It's five quick gathering missions. It should take a new player 2 hours max, as in they took so long to figure out how to even draw their weapon that it would take two hours max. You can't even spend 10 hours doing them without failing due to the 50 minute time limit on missions!

A review isn't made it bad because you don't agree, and if you don't agree and you think it's just a fine game he shouldn't really get to you. So you can either just play that shitty game and enjoy yourself instead of wasting time whining about things "mean old Yahtzee" said. Why do you even bother, attention problems?

And about the tutorial. It is Yahtzee, he is known for over-exagguration. 10 hours is indeed ridiculous, however 50X5=250mins= more than 4 hours, so you're 2 hour max is pretty idiotic. However a real tutorial I think should be like the one from Brütal Legend. A 5 minute mission to roll you in, not 4 bloody hours of gathering horse shit, which probably will feel like 10 hours. So next time think before you actually post your bullshit.

so you take the maximum time to finish all the quests? it is 50 min limit, not you have to sit there for 50 min even after you finish the objective. So 2 hour max is not idiotic.

You're right, review isn't made bade because one doesn't agree, but this is really a bad one. He has played the tutorial and judged the whole game just on that little part. It took me about an hour to get there, seeing as he's a critic he was probably exploring and such so maybe that's why it took him so long, but took me an hour, shouldn't take him more than 3 even if he was fooling around a lot. But that is not the point, the point is that he is wrong on certain things that he points out in the review, and that is why the review is bad, because it gives false impressions and wrong information

I knew someone would respond XD Maybe I got attention problems 2

All right: first of all, why would there be a max time if people don't take that long to do it? And 1 hour tutorial is still bullshit, when a tutorial takes longer than 15 minutes, I stop playing (the main reason I had to try Oblivion multiple times before I finally made it through the boring tutorial, great game though). And who are you to say he didn't played long enough, did you spy on him or something?
Also you're using the same argument that every MH3 lover says: It gets better later. And as many people already said, that argument is obselete because a game that is good has to take you in from the start. That is why I still think of Oblivion as a game that needs improvements, for I almost discarded it because of the horrible start. And Yahtzee discribed a boss battle, which will spawn those bosses everywhere, and getting a gather quest for it. That is also a thing that is just plainly bad. It also reminds me of Oblivion when all those bloody Oblivion gates open. It may be fun for 1 or 2 times, but when you stand inf ront of gate 25, it gets old. I did some more research and all over the internet those main points come to light. Yahtzee only exaggurates it, that doesn't mean his review is bad, for the information he gives is still correct.

To be fair the 50 minute time limit is standard for quests. Whether the quest is to go there and pick 2 flowers and return (should take you like 2 minutes max) or slay Altereon the destroyer of all. The only time it's different is when they shorten it to make some quests harder. It doesn't change the fact that if you don't enjoy the game it won't matter though.

 

[shadowmarth]

I knew someone would respond XD Maybe I got attention problems 2

All right: first of all, why would there be a max time if people don't take that long to do it? And 1 hour tutorial is still bullshit, when a tutorial takes longer than 15 minutes, I stop playing (the main reason I had to try Oblivion multiple times before I finally made it through the boring tutorial, great game though). And who are you to say he didn't played long enough, did you spy on him or something?
Also you're using the same argument that every MH3 lover says: It gets better later. And as many people already said, that argument is obselete because a game that is good has to take you in from the start. That is why I still think of Oblivion as a game that needs improvements, for I almost discarded it because of the horrible start. And Yahtzee discribed a boss battle, which will spawn those bosses everywhere, and getting a gather quest for it. That is also a thing that is just plainly bad. It also reminds me of Oblivion when all those bloody Oblivion gates open. It may be fun for 1 or 2 times, but when you stand inf ront of gate 25, it gets old. I did some more research and all over the internet those main points come to light. Yahtzee only exaggurates it, that doesn't mean his review is bad, for the information he gives is still correct.

The max time is the same for every mission. 50 minutes. It's just there for the boss fights really. Most non-bigass-monster missions take 5-15 minutes. And the only times you ever bump up against the time limit is if you A) Are never hitting the damned monster because you can't keep up with it, or B) You have an incredibly shitty weapon and haven't upgraded in a half dozen monsters.

Furthermore, if you hate any game that is not immediately awesome in the first 15 minutes of playing it, you are extremely impatient and are missing out on many, many great games. In fact that precludes you from being able to enjoy whole genres. It's sad really. Don't act like we're "wrong" to like the game because we have human attention spans.

 

[thevikktor]

It honestly only took me about an hour to do the tutorial, but whatever.

 

[shadowmarth]

I have a question....

The whole tutorial takes x time, is that based off how fast you guys all personally did it or some generic time that everyone is magically supposed to do it by? If it took him 10 hours, then maybe he did do it wrong, maybe he did take forever, who knows. All I know is, everyone has their own pace. Yahtzee clearly did not like this game, so his figure is somewhat more believable for me. Just because you guys or your friends finished it in x time, doesn't mean he should have too.

Honestly, everyone is different.

True enough. But the only reason he could have possibly taken 10 hours (of course he didn't and that's an extreme exaggeration) is if he fucked around in free-roam for most of it. Which would suggest he enjoys that. But if he doesn't, he's only punishing himself, and then taking it out on the game...

 

[teisjm]

You tell 'em yahtzee, that game is horrible.
I mean, i haven't played it myself, but the chick with a huge rack from PETA (Pornstars for the Erotic Treatment of Animals) said that digital monsters are people too, and killing them is as bad as murdering vegetarian orphans, and a long explanation, which i can't remember, cause i was too occupied i was with admiring real lifes jiggle physics.

 

[AwesomeFerret]

I agree completely with all the good people who have defended Tri. I had wanted Yahtzee to look at Tri, not because I wanted this disaster, but because its funny to see decent and good humoured bashes on games, as was his normal style. Then there was this. He used the game as a scapegoat to rant on about the Japanese and things he doesn't like about them and things he doesn't like about other RPG's. Then he completely ignored us, and after discovering that people would not stand for such a thing where such a good game is concerned, he tried to shield himself with lies and exaggeration. I, up until this point have liked ZP, but now I'm not sure I can ever watch it the same way again. He complains that he didn't have time to play, but then he needs to consider if all the things he claims get in the way are more important than his job of playing games through and through before a review. I have to wonder if The Escapist has ever considered having a word with him about it.

 

[feather240]

I would also like to throw in Prototype, BioShock 1, and Batman (AA)

Hurray for the beginning of Batman (AA)!


...and GEP! (Gotham Electric & Plumbing)

 

[golbleen]

I have a question....

The whole tutorial takes x time, is that based off how fast you guys all personally did it or some generic time that everyone is magically supposed to do it by?

I spent less than a half hour on it.

The 'tutorial takes x time' figure people are repeating are most likely various personal figures with an approximate leeway for how long a slightly more or slightly less skilled player will take, compounded with the general 'feel' of the game's pacing (a vital element of its design.)

We are noting that Yahtzee's experience is an inaccurate one to demonstrate to the public, because it represents a strong statistical outlier. The common figures mentioned in this thread all vary, roughly from 30-90 minutes. No one spent nine or eleven hours on the tutorial, or even five - you would have to be extremely exceptionally slow at this rate; at which point, Yahtzee calling the game extremely exceptionally slow to take off is his own fault, not the game's, because it would have to slow down for him.

 

[Quorothorn]

Personally, I thought it worked well in the Elder Scrolls games. But there it was a very gradual thing, in which it would generally take 2-3 quests before your weapon showed any signs of deteriorating.

And unlike games like Far Cry, there was no chance that the weapons would spontaneously not work; they just did reduced damage.

AND, unlike Fallout, they were easy to repair. What I hated about Fallout's mechanic is that it meant you had to lug around 4-5 copies of whatever gun you were using just so you'd be able to use it until you got to the next area. Whereas 1 or 2 1lb hammers could see you stay at 100% weapon damage for hours on end.

I think the person meant it's just a bad, and annoying idea. Whether the mechanics of it are presented well or not.

Also, can we please shut up about the whole "IT'S NOT REALLY TEN HOURS OMG HE LIED AND IS A LIAR AND EVERY OPINION HE HAS SHOULD BE SUBSEQUENTLY DISCARDED BECAUSE OF THIS AND OTHER THINGS ON THIS CHART I'VE MADE." shtick? I'm sure people have gathered by now that it's not actually that length of time and he's either horrendous at playing games, or he was simply exaggerating to prove a point. This, on no level, invalidates his opinion of the game.

It does however put his credibility on the line. He made the game sound like it was nothing but boring thing without any fucking thing to do(not even giant boss monsters existed in his review), and that is why people got angry in the first place, because he was incorrect about the game. He is entitled to his opinion as you are to yours and me to mine, but it is a whole other thing to just rant and rant and rant about the tutorial(all the things that he rants about? Goes away on the NEXT QUEST).

And does that magically remove their presence from the beginning, then? You have to remember that first impressions are important. Very important.

Well, it actually does. The first real combat that you get into is really really really good. Somethings that Yahtzee mentioned in the review and the EP, goes away later on in the game(AT this point they go away). So what if the game starts on a bumpy road? Tell me one game that is just an amazing ride of awesomeness that makes you shit bricks from the beginning

Ratchet & Clank.

Resident Evil 4.

Resident Evil 2.

God of War.

Devil May Cry 1 and 3.

Saint's Row 2.

There you go.

I would also like to throw in Prototype, BioShock 1, and Batman (AA)

I haven't played Bioshock yet, but so much agreement on Prototype. That game made the PS3 worth it all by itself. Batman's opening was sweet, too.

---

Well Yahtzee did do fighting aswell as the herb picking and management tasks...how much more to the game is actually left to do after the time he spent...the combat doesn't magically get better, and if he doesnt like this part of the game now, he wont like it after the tutorial whether its 5 minutes or 10 hours after.
As for exploring, well I agree with Yahtzee, the loading times completely take me out of any immersion in the game. Its not bad...but not great. The tedious sections Yahtzee have done and mentioned are actually a rare moment of him going out of his way to play longer in a game.

Actually the combat DOES get better, in a way. Because you get better at it. As the monster become more difficult, you really have to be extremely accurate and careful, or you get raped by a goddamned dragon.

You know for all the shit people talk about this game, the truth is that it's about SMASHING FUCKING DINOSAURS AND SEA MONSTERS' HEADS IN WITH YOUR FUCKING HAMMER, WITH YOUR FUCKING FRIENDS IF YOU SO DESIRE. It's a fun as hell game. The grind is WAAAAAY more fun that in MMOs, since you're actually playing fun boss fights rather than grinding on any particular mob or quest, and the rewards for it are fantastic.

Also every game tutorial ever sucks, just about. I really can't think of too many that don't. It's the boring part before the actual game, and every game with any depth has it. Deal with it?

I approve of the middle paragraph. Heartily. That's well-said.

Personally, I thought it worked well in the Elder Scrolls games. But there it was a very gradual thing, in which it would generally take 2-3 quests before your weapon showed any signs of deteriorating.

And unlike games like Far Cry, there was no chance that the weapons would spontaneously not work; they just did reduced damage.

AND, unlike Fallout, they were easy to repair. What I hated about Fallout's mechanic is that it meant you had to lug around 4-5 copies of whatever gun you were using just so you'd be able to use it until you got to the next area. Whereas 1 or 2 1lb hammers could see you stay at 100% weapon damage for hours on end.

I think the person meant it's just a bad, and annoying idea. Whether the mechanics of it are presented well or not.

Also, can we please shut up about the whole "IT'S NOT REALLY TEN HOURS OMG HE LIED AND IS A LIAR AND EVERY OPINION HE HAS SHOULD BE SUBSEQUENTLY DISCARDED BECAUSE OF THIS AND OTHER THINGS ON THIS CHART I'VE MADE." shtick? I'm sure people have gathered by now that it's not actually that length of time and he's either horrendous at playing games, or he was simply exaggerating to prove a point. This, on no level, invalidates his opinion of the game.

The problem is that people take his word for the words of god when it comes to video games, and to be honest I don't know why. I love his reviews, they're hilarious and often point out major flaws in the games that are interesting, but they're almost always exaggerated. All of the people here who watch ZP and decide not to buy a game must have a very sad library of games because Yahtzee almost never reviews things nicely and it's hilarious that he doesn't. I love video games in general, and want as many people as possible to play as many games as possible so people who take ZP seriously make me sad.

True. Personally, I use his reviews more to pinpoint games I could be interested in than to cross games off my list.

 

[Mindmaker]

Furthermore, if you hate any game that is not immediately awesome in the first 15 minutes of playing it, you are extremely impatient and are missing out on many, many great games. In fact that precludes you from being able to enjoy whole genres.

Exactly.
It saddens me that games in the quality of Baldurs Gate, Planescape: Torment, Fallout 1&2, The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind and similar ones, have died out.
Games like Fallout 3 don't deserve to be called RPG, if you compare them to their ancestors.

And all that because todays games are tailored to fit such people...

 

[Kavachi]

I knew someone would respond XD Maybe I got attention problems 2

All right: first of all, why would there be a max time if people don't take that long to do it? And 1 hour tutorial is still bullshit, when a tutorial takes longer than 15 minutes, I stop playing (the main reason I had to try Oblivion multiple times before I finally made it through the boring tutorial, great game though). And who are you to say he didn't played long enough, did you spy on him or something?
Also you're using the same argument that every MH3 lover says: It gets better later. And as many people already said, that argument is obselete because a game that is good has to take you in from the start. That is why I still think of Oblivion as a game that needs improvements, for I almost discarded it because of the horrible start. And Yahtzee discribed a boss battle, which will spawn those bosses everywhere, and getting a gather quest for it. That is also a thing that is just plainly bad. It also reminds me of Oblivion when all those bloody Oblivion gates open. It may be fun for 1 or 2 times, but when you stand inf ront of gate 25, it gets old. I did some more research and all over the internet those main points come to light. Yahtzee only exaggurates it, that doesn't mean his review is bad, for the information he gives is still correct.

The max time is the same for every mission. 50 minutes. It's just there for the boss fights really. Most non-bigass-monster missions take 5-15 minutes. And the only times you ever bump up against the time limit is if you A) Are never hitting the damned monster because you can't keep up with it, or B) You have an incredibly shitty weapon and haven't upgraded in a half dozen monsters.

Furthermore, if you hate any game that is not immediately awesome in the first 15 minutes of playing it, you are extremely impatient and are missing out on many, many great games. In fact that precludes you from being able to enjoy whole genres. It's sad really. Don't act like we're "wrong" to like the game because we have human attention spans.

Oh dear, to get this out of the way: I am not saying that a person who likes this game is bad. As you will find in my original post is that I said he could very well like the game, but that he should not whine about somebody else's opinion, because that is basicly what you guys are doing. So who is actually saying somebody else is "wrong" here, for all you MH3 fans were the driving force to get Yahtzee to write this piece in the first place. It is not an offensive position I'm taking, it is defensive, and I'm sorry if anything I said offended you.
So, now you know how I feel about it I would find it odd if you would still take offence to me talking back in this discussion.
I'm not the only one who has a short patience, but that is because I got more stuff to do, like hanging with my buds, playing better games that don't suck in the beginning (there were pretty good examples in earlier posts). And the games that are worth playing through the tutorial I will play. (To use my example again: Oblivion). And boss-fights, like in more than one? What good tutorial is so huge that it has more than one boss-fight? I don't know you're definition of a boss-fight, but to me it is a small part at the beginning that learns you the basic controls and gameplay mechanics of the game, and I'm not sure how you need more than 15 minutes to do that.

 

[Anaklusmos]

I just loved the Prototype beggining I mean 10 seconds in your first instruction is "Throw this car at this helicopter" and one minute later "Eat this guy"

EDIT: One thing that I've just thought of, maybe Yahtzee doesn't consider the tutorial to be what you guys think the tutorial is. Like maybe you guys think it is the "Real tutorial" while Yahtzee thinks that the tutorial ends when you fight that monster that took 30 mins for him to kill? You know just throwing that out there.

 

[antigodoflife]

Bullshit, this is the same excuse people made about Final Fantasy XIII. "Oh it opens up 20 hours in." Jesus titty-fucking Christ, I do not have the time to play a shitty game for 20 fucking hours before it gets good.

I'd like to rephrase that... it takes 20 - 30 hours for it to become OPEN, not good... just not linear. It really is the worst Final Fantasy in 20 years.

 

[Uber Waddles]

Yahtzee has always been one of the more honest reviewers for games, in my experience. There are some genres and games where you should learn to take what he says with a grain of salt; but usually he's right no the dot.

Perhaps Yahtzee wasnt talking about the Tutorial, but the slow points after the tutorial. After a game says "X is attack, Y is block, Z is Punch, H is heal" most of them dont throw you against endgame enemies. The "Tutorial" Phase he was referring to was the phase where the action was low, and the game was still holding your hand; atleast thats my interpretation.

Either way, hes a game Critic, he criticizes games for a living. If you had fun with Monster Hunter Tri, then Yahtzees opinion shouldnt change that (I had fun with SSBB, and thought his review to be funny).