Morrowind 2011 Mod Collection Pulled After Complaints

[Fumbleumble]

Anyway, i understand the mod creators completely.
Its like you painting a picture, spending a lot of time and effort getting it how you want it. Then some guy grabs the picture, puts it together with a second picture, then gets up on a stage showing it off to people, getting praised for his fantastic work.

Actually I think you'll find it's more like copying a picture of the Mona Lisa, putting a moustache on it.. then getting pissed because someone framed it, and hung it in a free gallery of similarly derived works because he thought they were all really well done.

(EDIT...Not mentioning the sign on the door saying "HEY.. come see what other people have done")

(EDIT EDIT... nor the added mood lighting because looking at some of them in their original form made your eyes bleed.)

 

[-Samurai-]

OU CAN'T CLAIM COPYRIGHT ON MODS, DUMBASSES!

Pretty sure they can claim copyright on all of their contributions Within the mod, such as graphics, music, code, etc.

Unless i'm mistaken.

If it was in the mod, they don't own it.

I can compose a musical masterpiece as background music for a map, but as soon as I put it in that map and release it to the public, it isn't mine. It belongs to the public, and more importantly, the company that made the game I modded. Especially if I used their tools to do it.

It would still be my work, but I wouldn't own any rights to it.

 

[Lenny Magic]

Gawd damn it, get my copy of Morrowind out of storage, set the torrent going the whole day, go to sleep for 2 hours and wake up to find it 80% done! I am way beyond furious, but I understand why he had to take it offline. Just quite a annoying thing for the mod makers to do, and somewhat counter productive IMO.

Then again asking for permission first is usually a very good idea for this kind of thing.

 

[Internet Kraken]

I don't understand how people can consider the original mod authors to be in the wrong. Many of them spent a lot of time on these mods, putting tons of effort into them. It's not wrong to want a little recognition for your work. Then you find out some guy has taken your mod along with many others and thrown them all together, and is being praised by the entire internet for it. Almost nobody even knows what you did to make that mod possible. The creator didn't ask for your permission, he just took your work without saying a word.

Even if he did give them credit in a text file, that's hardly giving enough credit to the creators. The fact that he didn't even ask the mod creators if they were okay with this shows he has little respect for them.

 

[Fumbleumble]

I don't understand how people can consider the original mod authors to be in the wrong. Many of them spent a lot of time on these mods, putting tons of effort into them. It's not wrong to want a little recognition for your work. Then you find out some guy has taken your mod along with many others and thrown them all together, and is being praised by the entire internet for it. Almost nobody even knows what you did to make that mod possible. The creator didn't ask for your permission, he just took your work without saying a word.

Even if he did give them credit in a text file, that's hardly giving enough credit to the creators. The fact that he didn't even ask the mod creators if they were okay with this shows he has little respect for them.

I think it's your and their use of words like 'original' that piss people off.

 

[-Samurai-]

I don't understand how people can consider the original mod authors to be in the wrong. Many of them spent a lot of time on these mods, putting tons of effort into them. It's not wrong to want a little recognition for your work. Then you find out some guy has taken your mod along with many others and thrown them all together, and is being praised by the entire internet for it. Almost nobody even knows what you did to make that mod possible. The creator didn't ask for your permission, he just took your work without saying a word.

Even if he did give them credit in a text file, that's hardly giving enough credit to the creators. The fact that he didn't even ask the mod creators if they were okay with this shows he has little respect for them.

All of that is perfectly reasonable. Expecting credit for your work isn't wrong. What's wrong is threatening legal action over violation of a copyright you don't own.

He should have kept it up just to spite them. Their legal claims have no merit whatsoever.

 

[unacomn]

This reminds me of that story about that cancer research charity using donated money to sue those other cancer research charity for using the same motto.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

If it was in the mod, they don't own it.

I can compose a musical masterpiece as background music for a map, but as soon as I put it in that map and release it to the public, it isn't mine. It belongs to the public, and more importantly, the company that made the game I modded. Especially if I used their tools to do it.

It would still be my work, but I wouldn't own any rights to it.

See, now i remember there being upset a while ago about proposed changes to how the automatic rights of intellectual property worked, where they wanted to change it so that your intellectual property was no longer automatically recognised and protected.

It didn't end up happening as far as i know, so i'm pretty sure you are wrong.

Although i certainly welcome solid proof one way or another.

 

[Internet Kraken]

I think it's your and their use of words like 'original' that piss people off.

Care to explain?

All of that is perfectly reasonable. Expecting credit for your work isn't wrong. What's wrong is threatening legal action over violation of a copyright you don't own.

He should have kept it up just to spite them. Their legal claims have no merit whatsoever.

Honestly I don't know jack about the legal issues surrounding mods and what can or can not be considered copyright infringement in this area. I think threatening legal action was going to far, but they were perfectly within their right to demand this guy take the mod down.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

I'm shocked he did not get the permission of the authors whose mods he compiled into Morrowind 2011. That is simply the way it's done. Right or wrong, this is exactly how I would expect the authors of these mods to react. They believe they should have creative control of their work (after Bethesda, of course) and will not take kindly to being so slighted.

EDIT: Even though no modder owns the work he has created in any legal sense (that I know of), there are expectations and customs adhered to by the mod community. Major sites and notable modders almost always respect the author's wishes regarding "their" work. Even popular mods disappear from major sites at the author's whim.

 

[-Samurai-]

All of that is perfectly reasonable. Expecting credit for your work isn't wrong. What's wrong is threatening legal action over violation of a copyright you don't own.

He should have kept it up just to spite them. Their legal claims have no merit whatsoever.

Honestly I don't know jack about the legal issues surrounding mods and what can or can not be considered copyright infringement in this area. I think threatening legal action was going to far, but they were perfectly within their right to demand this guy take the mod down.

With that I will agree. He used their work without their permission. They have the right to be angry about it.

Out of respect for their work, it would have been right to take it down. Had he chosen not to, though, there would have been absolutely nothing they could do about it.

The EULA for games(and usually in the modding tools as well) state that you have no claim of ownership over the works you create, and you can't sell them for profit.

But, instead of asking him to remove their work, they decide to throw legal threats at him that have no merit. That's why they look bad here.

 

[Fumbleumble]

I think it's your and their use of words like 'original' that piss people off.

Care to explain?

OK..

Their are NO original efforts here except those of Bethesda's... EVERYONE else's work (including the compiler) is derivative... and at the end of the day... no one can say jack about how free derviative work is used except the (real) original producer.. who is Bethesda.

His modification (and it isn't even that) of their work is EXACTLY the same as their modification of Bethesda's product.

No one owns anything except Bethesda.. and the fact that they explicitly allowed people to alter their product in the first place makes everyone else's objections moot....

And let's get this straight here before the thread gets off point..... were only talking GRAPHICS... and only alterations or derivative facsimilies at that....... it's not original work here it's all to make the original game LOOK better.

 

[Diligent]

Reality check? I already said I don't care who's right or wrong. And guess what? Modding with no permission from dev and releasing it for others to use is illegal but that doesn't stop people.

Really? Since when were mods illegal? Bethesda released modding tools to the public, which sort of implies permission and encourages people to do it.
If anything, a community built graphical overhaul of the game might make people who missed it the first time around look at it and decide to buy the game and try it with these mods.
Counterstrike started out as a mod that used assets from Halflife, and Valve hired the guys who made it. Look how popular it was/is.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

I hope he posts the usernames or emails of these assholes so they get spammed into oblivion and people know whos mods to stop supporting. I don't care who is right or wrong here, those people are fucking douchebags, plain and simple.

Yeah, those people are douchbags for not wanting someone to compile their mod [that they spent a lot of time and effort on, and then released to the community] in a package without their permission...

I think you need a reality check - the mod creators aren't in the wrong here, what the guy did was illegal, and what's more he clearly [well according to this news post anyway] didn't ask permission from the modders in the first place - and he's gaining positive publicity from their work...there's nothing wrong with them threatening action against him.

It has no legal basis. The EULA of the Elder Scrolls Construction Kit explicitly states that any content created is the property of Bethesda. People can do whatever the hell they want with it, provided they don't anger Bethesda.

Is it a good idea? Im a little on the fence here. While it definitely would have been a good idea to seek permission, the Morrowind mod community has always been very drama-mongering and it almost reminds me of the ridiculous kerfuffles over licensing that ROM and related MUDs had.

Bottom line, people were included and they were clearly identified as the authors of their work. There was no basis to say they weren't. The bone is over the fact that they didn't get asked, and frankly? Fuck that. You don't get to release freeware and then put arcane terms on it. Bethesda has very clearly outlined what you can and cant do with MODs, but the community has its own rules and regulations which I have always thought to amount to dramatic wankery.

 

[Internet Kraken]

I think it's your and their use of words like 'original' that piss people off.

Care to explain?

OK..

Their are NO original efforts here except those of Bethesda's... EVERYONE else's work (including the compiler) is derivative... and at the end of the day... no one can say jack about how free derviative work is used except the (real) original producer.. who is Bethesda.

His modification (and it isn't even that) of their work is EXACTLY the same as their modification of Bethesda's product.

No one owns anything except Bethesda.. and the fact that they explicitly allowed people to alter their product in the first place makes everyone else's objections moot....

And let's get this straight here before the thread gets off point..... were only talking GRAPHICS... and only alterations or derivative facsimilies at that....... it's not original work here it's all to make the original game LOOK better.

And somehow, nothing you just alters my opinion in anyway. At the end of the day, that guy took something that people put hard word and effort into, used it without their permission, and gave them barely any credit. Just because it's a mod doesn't mean you should just be allowed to disregard the opinion of the original creator's when you're using something they made. And clearly Bethesda agrees, considering they've sided with the modders in this.

 

[Mordwyl]

The guy was torrenting it so he wasn't really doing it for profit, not to mention crediting all the authors as deserved. Why?

 

[Fumbleumble]

I think it's your and their use of words like 'original' that piss people off.

Care to explain?

OK..

Their are NO original efforts here except those of Bethesda's... EVERYONE else's work (including the compiler) is derivative... and at the end of the day... no one can say jack about how free derviative work is used except the (real) original producer.. who is Bethesda.

His modification (and it isn't even that) of their work is EXACTLY the same as their modification of Bethesda's product.

No one owns anything except Bethesda.. and the fact that they explicitly allowed people to alter their product in the first place makes everyone else's objections moot....

And let's get this straight here before the thread gets off point..... were only talking GRAPHICS... and only alterations or derivative facsimilies at that....... it's not original work here it's all to make the original game LOOK better.

And somehow, nothing you just alters my opinion in anyway. At the end of the day, that guy took something that people put hard word and effort into, used it without their permission, and gave them barely any credit. Just because it's a mod doesn't mean you should just be allowed to disregard the opinion of the original creator's when you're using something they made. And clearly Bethesda agrees, considering they've sided with the modders in this.

Which puts Bethesda ENTIRELY in the wrong in this matter... for Bethesda themselves to start getting pissy over someones alteration of an alteration... makes them nothing short of hypocrites.....and I dare say that LEGALLY, should it be tested... that they would not be able to censor him.. without censoring the other's for EXACTLY the same reason.

What HE has done to the mod makers, is no different to what the mod makers themselves have done to Bethesda....and Bethesda's OPINION of what can be done with their work is no longer an issue when EVERYTHING has become part of a LEGALLY binding matter. Bethesda owns it ALL.. which means that EVERYONE has to abide by Bethesda's ORIGINAL arrangement with the community... and that's that people can do what they want with the modding tools as long as no one is making money.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Which puts Bethesda ENTIRELY in the wrong in this matter... for Bethesda themselves to start getting pissy over someones alteration of an alteration... makes them nothing short of hypocrites.....and I dare say that LEGALLY, should it be tested... that they would not be able to censor him.. without censoring the other;s for EXACTLY the same reason.

So you think it's perfectly fine to completley disregard the efforts of modders?

 

[Fumbleumble]

Which puts Bethesda ENTIRELY in the wrong in this matter... for Bethesda themselves to start getting pissy over someones alteration of an alteration... makes them nothing short of hypocrites.....and I dare say that LEGALLY, should it be tested... that they would not be able to censor him.. without censoring the other;s for EXACTLY the same reason.

So you think it's perfectly fine to completley disregard the efforts of modders?

He didn't... he gave them credit...Just as they did for Bethesda. They can't enforce how their work is used seeing as they don't own any rights to it.

...AND the modders accepted those conditions as soon as they opened the toolset.