Morrowind 2011 Mod Collection Pulled After Complaints

[Fumbleumble]

I think it's your and their use of words like 'original' that piss people off.

Care to explain?

OK..

Their are NO original efforts here except those of Bethesda's... EVERYONE else's work (including the compiler) is derivative... and at the end of the day... no one can say jack about how free derviative work is used except the (real) original producer.. who is Bethesda.

His modification (and it isn't even that) of their work is EXACTLY the same as their modification of Bethesda's product.

No one owns anything except Bethesda.. and the fact that they explicitly allowed people to alter their product in the first place makes everyone else's objections moot....

And let's get this straight here before the thread gets off point..... were only talking GRAPHICS... and only alterations or derivative facsimilies at that....... it's not original work here it's all to make the original game LOOK better.

 

[Diligent]

Reality check? I already said I don't care who's right or wrong. And guess what? Modding with no permission from dev and releasing it for others to use is illegal but that doesn't stop people.

Really? Since when were mods illegal? Bethesda released modding tools to the public, which sort of implies permission and encourages people to do it.
If anything, a community built graphical overhaul of the game might make people who missed it the first time around look at it and decide to buy the game and try it with these mods.
Counterstrike started out as a mod that used assets from Halflife, and Valve hired the guys who made it. Look how popular it was/is.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

I hope he posts the usernames or emails of these assholes so they get spammed into oblivion and people know whos mods to stop supporting. I don't care who is right or wrong here, those people are fucking douchebags, plain and simple.

Yeah, those people are douchbags for not wanting someone to compile their mod [that they spent a lot of time and effort on, and then released to the community] in a package without their permission...

I think you need a reality check - the mod creators aren't in the wrong here, what the guy did was illegal, and what's more he clearly [well according to this news post anyway] didn't ask permission from the modders in the first place - and he's gaining positive publicity from their work...there's nothing wrong with them threatening action against him.

It has no legal basis. The EULA of the Elder Scrolls Construction Kit explicitly states that any content created is the property of Bethesda. People can do whatever the hell they want with it, provided they don't anger Bethesda.

Is it a good idea? Im a little on the fence here. While it definitely would have been a good idea to seek permission, the Morrowind mod community has always been very drama-mongering and it almost reminds me of the ridiculous kerfuffles over licensing that ROM and related MUDs had.

Bottom line, people were included and they were clearly identified as the authors of their work. There was no basis to say they weren't. The bone is over the fact that they didn't get asked, and frankly? Fuck that. You don't get to release freeware and then put arcane terms on it. Bethesda has very clearly outlined what you can and cant do with MODs, but the community has its own rules and regulations which I have always thought to amount to dramatic wankery.

 

[Internet Kraken]

I think it's your and their use of words like 'original' that piss people off.

Care to explain?

OK..

Their are NO original efforts here except those of Bethesda's... EVERYONE else's work (including the compiler) is derivative... and at the end of the day... no one can say jack about how free derviative work is used except the (real) original producer.. who is Bethesda.

His modification (and it isn't even that) of their work is EXACTLY the same as their modification of Bethesda's product.

No one owns anything except Bethesda.. and the fact that they explicitly allowed people to alter their product in the first place makes everyone else's objections moot....

And let's get this straight here before the thread gets off point..... were only talking GRAPHICS... and only alterations or derivative facsimilies at that....... it's not original work here it's all to make the original game LOOK better.

And somehow, nothing you just alters my opinion in anyway. At the end of the day, that guy took something that people put hard word and effort into, used it without their permission, and gave them barely any credit. Just because it's a mod doesn't mean you should just be allowed to disregard the opinion of the original creator's when you're using something they made. And clearly Bethesda agrees, considering they've sided with the modders in this.

 

[Mordwyl]

The guy was torrenting it so he wasn't really doing it for profit, not to mention crediting all the authors as deserved. Why?

 

[Fumbleumble]

I think it's your and their use of words like 'original' that piss people off.

Care to explain?

OK..

Their are NO original efforts here except those of Bethesda's... EVERYONE else's work (including the compiler) is derivative... and at the end of the day... no one can say jack about how free derviative work is used except the (real) original producer.. who is Bethesda.

His modification (and it isn't even that) of their work is EXACTLY the same as their modification of Bethesda's product.

No one owns anything except Bethesda.. and the fact that they explicitly allowed people to alter their product in the first place makes everyone else's objections moot....

And let's get this straight here before the thread gets off point..... were only talking GRAPHICS... and only alterations or derivative facsimilies at that....... it's not original work here it's all to make the original game LOOK better.

And somehow, nothing you just alters my opinion in anyway. At the end of the day, that guy took something that people put hard word and effort into, used it without their permission, and gave them barely any credit. Just because it's a mod doesn't mean you should just be allowed to disregard the opinion of the original creator's when you're using something they made. And clearly Bethesda agrees, considering they've sided with the modders in this.

Which puts Bethesda ENTIRELY in the wrong in this matter... for Bethesda themselves to start getting pissy over someones alteration of an alteration... makes them nothing short of hypocrites.....and I dare say that LEGALLY, should it be tested... that they would not be able to censor him.. without censoring the other's for EXACTLY the same reason.

What HE has done to the mod makers, is no different to what the mod makers themselves have done to Bethesda....and Bethesda's OPINION of what can be done with their work is no longer an issue when EVERYTHING has become part of a LEGALLY binding matter. Bethesda owns it ALL.. which means that EVERYONE has to abide by Bethesda's ORIGINAL arrangement with the community... and that's that people can do what they want with the modding tools as long as no one is making money.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Which puts Bethesda ENTIRELY in the wrong in this matter... for Bethesda themselves to start getting pissy over someones alteration of an alteration... makes them nothing short of hypocrites.....and I dare say that LEGALLY, should it be tested... that they would not be able to censor him.. without censoring the other;s for EXACTLY the same reason.

So you think it's perfectly fine to completley disregard the efforts of modders?

 

[Fumbleumble]

Which puts Bethesda ENTIRELY in the wrong in this matter... for Bethesda themselves to start getting pissy over someones alteration of an alteration... makes them nothing short of hypocrites.....and I dare say that LEGALLY, should it be tested... that they would not be able to censor him.. without censoring the other;s for EXACTLY the same reason.

So you think it's perfectly fine to completley disregard the efforts of modders?

He didn't... he gave them credit...Just as they did for Bethesda. They can't enforce how their work is used seeing as they don't own any rights to it.

...AND the modders accepted those conditions as soon as they opened the toolset.

 

[kebab4you]

Which puts Bethesda ENTIRELY in the wrong in this matter... for Bethesda themselves to start getting pissy over someones alteration of an alteration... makes them nothing short of hypocrites.....and I dare say that LEGALLY, should it be tested... that they would not be able to censor him.. without censoring the other;s for EXACTLY the same reason.

So you think it's perfectly fine to completley disregard the efforts of modders?

The second they put it out to the public(even during work it was Bethesda that owned the mod), all there work went to Bethesda, and since Bethesda allow people to mod there game the creator off this mod package didn't do anything wrong. Sure, not asking if he can compile there work into one big package wasn't that smart or nice but nothing on earth the modders could have done to him.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

So you think it's perfectly fine to completley disregard the efforts of modders?

They're essentially releasing something they have no rights to do so. The onus is on Bethesda to regulate mods and the community as they see fit. So really in the end, that's the opinion that matters.

He didn't... he gave them credit...Just as they did for Bethesda. They can't enforce how their work is used seeing as they don't own any rights to it.

Bethesda can. And they did. Really should be the end of it, IMO.

 

[Internet Kraken]

He didn't... he gave them credit...Just as they did for Bethesda. They can't enforce how their work is used seeing as they don't own any rights to it.

Mentioning the names of the authors in a zip file is hardly substantial credit. At least it doesn't seem to be, otherwise the creators wouldn't be so pissed off. Maybe he should have asked each creator what they would consider to be substantial credit. But he didn't do that, and now he's suffering the consequences.

And I'd be kind of irked if someone took all my Dwarf Fortress mods, threw them in with a bunch of others without even telling me, and then the only acknowledgment of my work was one line of text in a file.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

Actually I think you'll find it's more like copying a picture of the Mona Lisa, putting a moustache on it.. then getting pissed because someone framed it, and hung it in a free gallery of similarly derived works because he thought they were all really well done.

(EDIT...Not mentioning the sign on the door saying "HEY.. come see what other people have done")

(EDIT EDIT... nor the added mood lighting because looking at some of them in their original form made your eyes bleed.)

I think using your analogy it would be more accurate to say:
you making a picture of monalisa with a moustache, then having someone take the moustache, along with an afro from another monalisa edit and sunglasses from a third, and so on, gluing them all together, and then getting praised for their great work creating a monalisa with a moustache, afro, sunglasses, ect.

Then, on the back of the frame against the wall is the sign saying "HEY.. come see what other people have done"

 

[mdk31]

I hope the people who wanted it pulled realize that the internet, being the internet, never forgets any piece of data. That mod compilation is out in the wild now, and there's nothing they can do that will change that. Period.

 

[Fumbleumble]

He didn't... he gave them credit...Just as they did for Bethesda. They can't enforce how their work is used seeing as they don't own any rights to it.

Bethesda can. And they did. Really should be the end of it, IMO.

But your opinion, or Bethesda's for that matter, has ABSOLUTELY no legal bearing on the matter...

The whole kit and kaboodle falls under Bethesda's original legally binding agreement... Censoring him, without censoring EVERYONE else is against that agreement and in no way binding to anyone....

The guy should sue to have his account reinstated OR to have EVERY MORROWIND MOD ON THE PLANET pulled!

 

[Drakmorg]

Thankfully I downloaded the package yesterday, looks like I snagged it just in time.

Finally gives me an excuse to actually play this game. My cousin gave me the GOTY edition like 12 yonks ago because he didn't like it, and up until now I've never gotten around to playing it since I'm just superficial enough about graphics that the game was a bit too fugly for my tastes up until now.

 

[Fumbleumble]

Actually I think you'll find it's more like copying a picture of the Mona Lisa, putting a moustache on it.. then getting pissed because someone framed it, and hung it in a free gallery of similarly derived works because he thought they were all really well done.

(EDIT...Not mentioning the sign on the door saying "HEY.. come see what other people have done")

(EDIT EDIT... nor the added mood lighting because looking at some of them in their original form made your eyes bleed.)

I think using your analogy it would be more accurate to say:
you making a picture of monalisa with a moustache, then having someone take the moustache, along with an afro from another monalisa edit and sunglasses from a third, and so on, gluing them all together, and then getting praised for their great work creating a monalisa with a moustache, afro, sunglasses, ect.

Then, on the back of the frame against the wall is the sign saying "HEY.. come see what other people have done"

Not if you consider the gallery to be Morrowind itself...then it's everyone's work on display in the same place.

He didn't alter any one person's work... and that's what you infer....Everyone's work is on display equally....

..and as far as the sign goes... he could have stuck it in the bin in the corner for all it matters..... because his sign is on 'display' in exactly the same manner as those making the protests.

 

[Liiizard]

I can't comprehend the logic of the mod authors who are threatening to sue.

"I've labored away at this mod of this old game, it's a very niche thing, and I'll be lucky to have over 1000 people see my work. Wait a second, someone has used my work, in conjunction with the work of hundreds of other modders like me, to create a wonderful re-release of this game I love so much, and now my work may be seen by millions!"

Should I :

a) Thank the person responsible and ask them to include a link to my website on theirs so I can increase traffic and attention to my work, maybe ask them to highlight what parts of the package were my contributions.

b)Smile about this thing happening, then go back to modding

c)THREATEN THAT JERK WITH LEGAL ACTION FOR DARING TO USE MY WORK WITHOUT ASKING!!!!!

I think my avatar says it all. *facepalm*

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

He didn't... he gave them credit...Just as they did for Bethesda. They can't enforce how their work is used seeing as they don't own any rights to it.

Bethesda can. And they did. Really should be the end of it, IMO.

But your opinion, or Bethesda's for that matter, has ABSOLUTELY no legal bearing on the matter...

The whole kit and kaboodle falls under Bethesda's original legally binding agreement... Censoring him, without censoring EVERYONE else is against that agreement and in no way binding to anyone....

The guy should sue to have his account reinstated OR to have EVERY MORROWIND MOD ON THE PLANET pulled!

You obviously have no understanding of intellectual property law. The End-User License Agreement of the Construction Kit states that anything created with it is the property of Bethesda. Which means they can do whatever they want with it. Anything. At all.

Personally I think its a pretty raw deal for modders. Bethesda could come around, put together a mod or a bunch of mods, and turn around and sell it, and the modders would have absolutely no legal recourse. Which is why I would never put serious effort into modding for those games.

But regardless, the agreement states that the mods are Bethesda's. They can do whatever they want with them. They're not bound by anything other than law.

 

[Alpha Maeko]

I don't know whether to find this funny or sad.

Clearly, not asking permission from anyone was wrong, but who the hell does this shit? Practically threatening legal action?

OBJECTION!

 

[Fumbleumble]

Mentioning the names of the authors in a zip file is hardly substantial credit.

This is irrelevent.... this is the way thing have been accptably done since modding began (and it's EXACTLY the same way in which the modders themselves have given credit)...... it has become "law through usage", until tested.