Morrowind 2011 Mod Collection Pulled After Complaints

[-Samurai-]

It's his problem and he has to deal with it now, he should have got the permission first other wise he isn't any better than the guy who made the Knights of the force expansion for JKA III.

Hope he resolves it though, some mod authors are too uptight.

Oh god. Why the hell would you bring KoTF into this?! Now I'll never be able to sleep!

[small]*Goes off mumbling about how Tim stole my work, then made a profit from donations and so on and so forth*[/small]

 

[sdfasdfhfgfgjtyisdgdfdfj]

I thought the Morrowind modding community was better then this, I guess it isn't then.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Again it seems that basic decency and politeness could have stopped the entire problem at it's source, but instead, a foolish decision causes strife for many.

IF he'd just emailed each mod creator and said' Hey, I've been working on a mod compilation, knowing that it's tricky to make multiple ones work together, and I've got it working to this level *youtube link*, can I include your mod in the compilation as a full release? I'll obviously give you full credit for your part in it.', then I believe 90% would have gladly said yes, and probably offered help, and the remaining one or two would have probably given in when they saw the quality of the work, and that everyone else had accepted.

Instead, I'm sure it appeared to the modders, that this guy came along, stuck a bunch of their hard work in a zip file and went 'look at me I'm so awesome lolz', when of course he'd done a fair bit to make things work smoothly.

Rule for life, if you're not sure if something you'll do will piss people off, and you don't actually want to bug them, just ask... most people react positively to a polite request, so long as you're not standing in town holding a clipboard and wearing a tabard.

 

[Fumbleumble]

You obviously have no understanding of intellectual property law. The End-User License Agreement of the Construction Kit states that anything created with it is the property of Bethesda. Which means they can do whatever they want with it. Anything. At all.

No offence mate... but that's absolute garbage.

EVERYONE has to abide by the same agreement... Bethesda CANNOT start making up rules for one person and not for others. If Bethesda makes an agreement... that agreement binds EVERYONE.. whether Bethesda likes it or not, because the matter has become LEGALLY BINDING.. it's the LAW that decides, NOT Bethesda...

Bethesda wrote their original conditions and it is the law's job to enforce those conditions AS WRITTEN, if Bethesda decide they have made a mistake, tough titty on them. YOU have no understanding of how the law works.

What is sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

No offence mate... but that's absolute garbage.

EVERYONE has to abide by the same agreement... Bethesda CANNOT start making up rules for one person and not for others. If Bethesda makes an agreement... that agreement binds EVERYONE.. whether Bethesda likes it or not... YOU have no understanding of how the law works.

What is sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander.

Sure they can. Its their property. They own it. It may or may not be morally correct, or ethical, for them to do certain things with it, but so long as they don't break any laws, they can do whatever the fuck they want with MODs made using TESCK.

[edit]: I suspect this is good reading for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property

 

[Internet Kraken]

This is irrelevent.... this is the way thing have been accptably done since modding began (and it's EXACTLY the same way in which the modders themselves have given credit)...... it has become "law through usage", until tested.

Obviously you're wrong, otherwise the mod creators wouldn't be outraged. Or maybe their just pissed off about this guy not even asking for permission. Either way, if the original mod creators wanted this taken down, I'd have to agree with them. It's their work.

 

[Fumbleumble]

No offence mate... but that's absolute garbage.

EVERYONE has to abide by the same agreement... Bethesda CANNOT start making up rules for one person and not for others. If Bethesda makes an agreement... that agreement binds EVERYONE.. whether Bethesda likes it or not... YOU have no understanding of how the law works.

What is sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander.

Sure they can. Its their property. They own it. It may or may not be morally correct, or ethical, for them to do certain things with it, but so long as they don't break any laws, they can do whatever the fuck they want with MODs made using TESCK.

[edit]: I suspect this is good reading for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property

Dude.... you've MISUNDERSTOOD what you have read..... Once Bethesda create a set of conditions and 'asks' the law to enforce those conditions... those conditions then become SET IN STONE, even if Bethesda don't like it.

Have you never heard the expression 'The Law is a Double edged weapon'... that's what it means.

 

[Fumbleumble]

This is irrelevent.... this is the way thing have been accptably done since modding began (and it's EXACTLY the same way in which the modders themselves have given credit)...... it has become "law through usage", until tested.

Obviously you're wrong, otherwise the mod creators wouldn't be outraged. Or maybe their just pissed off about this guy not even asking for permission. Either way, if the original mod creators wanted this taken down, I'd have to agree with them. It's their work.

You've said that I'm wrong because they wouldn't be upset otherwise...You've assumed them to be correct bolstering that fact that I'm wrong.. it's the other way around. They don't have a 'right' to be perturbed, other than the fact that they don't like it.

And anyway.. it's NOT their work... they may have done the work, but they have no legal say in how it's used. All Rights Reserved... by Bethesda.

 

[Freyar]

This is a stupid knee-jerk reaction by people that think they are entitled to more than they are. You work on a mod for a copyrighted work to which the agreement to make a mod states you have no copyright claim for it, only to make a legal threat like that when it gets distributed along with high visibility on news sites?

This seems completely counter-intuitive to the end-goal for modders. I've written one or two here, I'd rather have my content distributed with my name on it, that's it. Bad form, mod-devs... how the hell can we PC gamers support you when this kind of flare up lights up the sky like a nuke from orbit [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q].

Console tards are laughing at us now aren't they? "We don't have to worry about things like that 'cause Activision is the only one that makes it!"

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

Dude.... you've MISUNDERSTOOD what you have read..... Once Bethesda create a set of conditions and 'asks' the law to enforce those conditions... those conditions then become SET IN STONE, even if Bethesda don't like it.

Have you never heard the expression 'The Law is a Double edged weapon'... that's what it means.

When you read the link I posted, we can continue this discussion, until then, I don't mean to be rude, but you very obviously don't grasp the legal concepts involved, so you shouldn't be commenting on them.

Court agreements in civil courts do not generally create binding precedent.

 

[Internet Kraken]

You've said that I'm wrong because they wouldn't be upset otherwise...You've assumed them to be correct bolstering that fact that I'm wrong.. it's the other way around. They don't have a 'right' to be perturbed, other than the fact that they don't like it.

And anyway.. it's NOT their work... they may have done the work, but they have no legal say in how it's used. All Rights Reserved... by Bethesda.

Just because they have no legal authority over how the mods is used doesn't mean their complaints are unjustified. If you honestly think this guy using their mods without asking and giving them next to no credit is fine, you don't have any respect for modders.

For the record though, I don't think the modders threatening him with legal action is acceptable.

 

[Fumbleumble]

Dude.... you've MISUNDERSTOOD what you have read..... Once Bethesda create a set of conditions and 'asks' the law to enforce those conditions... those conditions then become SET IN STONE, even if Bethesda don't like it.

Have you never heard the expression 'The Law is a Double edged weapon'... that's what it means.

When you read the link I posted, we can continue this discussion, until then, I don't mean to be rude, but you very obviously don't grasp the legal concepts involved, so you shouldn't be commenting on them.

Court agreements in civil courts do not generally create binding precedent.

They're not binding ANYTHING... Bethesda already set the conditions... they're 'just reading what it says on the tin'

So that means.. under YOUR way of thinking.. Bethesda could, one week sue someone for making their sky pink.... then in the next week sue someone else for NOT making their sky pink.

Bethesda CANNOT make the rules up as they go along... the rules are set.

Bethesda has AN OPTION to change the conditions, but then EVERYONE else has AN OPTION to take legal action against the new conditions.

Sony had to settle out of court for withdrawing their Linux support.. BECAUSE they changed THEIR legally binding conditions on how their hardware worked.

 

[Booze Zombie]

So, what, this guy puts together this great compilation of mods and works hard to make them work together without conflicting and people are complaining?

 

[Fumbleumble]

You've said that I'm wrong because they wouldn't be upset otherwise...You've assumed them to be correct bolstering that fact that I'm wrong.. it's the other way around. They don't have a 'right' to be perturbed, other than the fact that they don't like it.

And anyway.. it's NOT their work... they may have done the work, but they have no legal say in how it's used. All Rights Reserved... by Bethesda.

Just because they have no legal authority over how the mods is used doesn't mean their complaints are unjustified. If you honestly think this guy using their mods without asking and giving them next to no credit is fine, you don't have any respect for modders.

For the record though, I don't think the modders threatening him with legal action is acceptable.

Dude... we're not talking rightful or ethical justification here.....

If we WERE then I would quite happily consign the entire industry to the depths of hell.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Dude... we're not talking rightful or ethical justification here.....

That's exactly what I've been talking about.

 

[beef623]

You may not cause or permit the sale or other commercial distribution or commercial exploitation (e.g., by renting, licensing, sublicensing, leasing, disseminating, uploading, downloading, transmitting, whether on a pay-per-play basis or otherwise) of any New Materials without the express prior written consent of an authorized representative of Bethesda Softworks. This includes distributing New Materials as part of any compilation You and/or other Product users may create. You shall not create any New Materials that infringe upon the rights of others, or that are libelous, defamatory, harassing, or threatening, and You shall comply with all applicable laws in connection with the New Materials. You are only permitted to distribute the New Materials, without charge (i.e., on a strictly non-commercial basis), to other authorized users who have purchased the Product, solely for use with such users' own authorized copies of such Product and in accordance with and subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement and all applicable laws. If You distribute or otherwise make available New Materials, You automatically grant to Bethesda Softworks the irrevocable, perpetual, royalty free, sublicensable, right and license under all applicable copyrights and intellectual property rights laws to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, perform, display, distribute and otherwise exploit and/or dispose of the New Materials (or any part of the New Materials) in any way Bethesda Softworks, or its respective designee(s), sees fit. You also waive and agree never to assert against Bethesda Softworks or its licensees any moral rights or similar rights, however designated, that You may have in or to any of the New Materials. As noted below, if You commit any breach of this Agreement, Your license and this Agreement shall automatically terminate, without notice.

Your breach of this Section shall constitute a material breach of this Agreement and/or of applicable copyright and other intellectual property rights laws and treaties, and may subject You to civil and criminal liability.

My legalese isn't that great, but it sounds to me like the mod creators (not the guy that repackaged them) are the only ones who would be in violation of anything by threatening the guy that did the repackaging...

 

[Aquin]

Of course, everyone here is ignoring the fact that the dude in question is a Canadian.

I'm from Canada too. We don't have DMCA up here. In fact, we can pretty much pirate whatever we want with little in the way of legal consequences. I'm not saying that's what happened here and I'm not saying what's right or wrong.

But they can't nail him with a DMCA take-down notice or otherwise touch him. Not if he's running the operation from our country, anyway.

 

[Fumbleumble]

Dude... we're not talking rightful or ethical justification here.....

That's exactly what I've been talking about.

But you're condemning the guy for being in the right, which then makes everything you are saying a matter of opinion....but you 'state' it with such force as if your opinion in this matter actually means something. you can't do that.

The guy crumbled to UNFOUNDED legal threats backed up by shitty underhanded dealings by Bethesda... and you're all saying quite right.

I'm say NO F**KING WAY.

If you want to ***** and moan about how unfair the law is, then... .. be my guest... ***** about the law... but don't use that as justification to beat the guy about the head and neck with the broken bottle of rightousness.... when ALL he's done is EXACTLY the same as what EVERY modder has EVER done... except that that the only people who ACTUALLY DO GET A SAY IN THE MATTER, don't mind.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

You may not cause or permit the sale or other commercial distribution or commercial exploitation (e.g., by renting, licensing, sublicensing, leasing, disseminating, uploading, downloading, transmitting, whether on a pay-per-play basis or otherwise) of any New Materials without the express prior written consent of an authorized representative of Bethesda Softworks. This includes distributing New Materials as part of any compilation You and/or other Product users may create. You shall not create any New Materials that infringe upon the rights of others, or that are libelous, defamatory, harassing, or threatening, and You shall comply with all applicable laws in connection with the New Materials. You are only permitted to distribute the New Materials, without charge (i.e., on a strictly non-commercial basis), to other authorized users who have purchased the Product, solely for use with such users' own authorized copies of such Product and in accordance with and subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement and all applicable laws. If You distribute or otherwise make available New Materials, You automatically grant to Bethesda Softworks the irrevocable, perpetual, royalty free, sublicensable, right and license under all applicable copyrights and intellectual property rights laws to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, perform, display, distribute and otherwise exploit and/or dispose of the New Materials (or any part of the New Materials) in any way Bethesda Softworks, or its respective designee(s), sees fit. You also waive and agree never to assert against Bethesda Softworks or its licensees any moral rights or similar rights, however designated, that You may have in or to any of the New Materials. As noted below, if You commit any breach of this Agreement, Your license and this Agreement shall automatically terminate, without notice.

Your breach of this Section shall constitute a material breach of this Agreement and/or of applicable copyright and other intellectual property rights laws and treaties, and may subject You to civil and criminal liability.

My legalese isn't that great, but it sounds to me like the mod creators (not the guy that repackaged them) are the ones who would be in violation of anything by threatening the guy that did the repackaging...

Yes, they would be in violation of the agreement, and would not have a legal standing in the case if they were to sue, because they did not own the rights which were allegedly infringed upon.

 

[Freyar]

It may have been stupid not to ask for permission, granted. But threatening with legal consequences instead of trying to resolve this thing peacefully was just as retarded, if not even more. Now there is no way of de-escalating this.
And just as it is common courtesy to ask for permission, shouldn't it also be common courtesy to simply inform this guy that what he did was not correct, and that he should clarify the ownership of these mods a bit more prominently? I mean, what is this? "Make one mistake and your ass is mine"? "Don't fuck with us, because we are legion"? Is it really too much to ask for to resolve this like adults and not screaming children?

It just proves that while I'd like to see the stereotype of top-hat-and-monocle-wearing continue, it just goes to show that we aren't really that much better as a whole than other platform's community, if not less so.