New hard game comes out. Idiot press wants easy mode.
- Thread starter CritialGaming
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I said "OR" in there because my initial feeling would be based on how they said it (tone and all that stuff). So many people put Souls on a pedestal it doesn't deserve. Rurikhan sums up the pretentious Souls attitude [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67xtj8LY1nY&feature=youtu.be&t=348] (all queued up at the exact spot) perfectly when talking about God of War's difficulty. Because of that, I have to make a determination about whether someone just played Dark Souls because they simply like the game or they are one of the twats as described by Rurikhan. I'd most likely say to them "ah, cool" either way but I'd still have to mentally make that quick determination because of the Souls community.Kerg3927 said:
Finding cheese methods in Souls happens by accident half the time. Just playing the game normally, you can easily see merely strafing is cheese in DS1, the bow and arrow is cheese, magic is cheese, playing co-op is cheese, etc. You don't need to go to wikis or Youtube to figure that stuff out. Easy difficulty doesn't equate to just playing the game with 0 challenge either, it's not god mode. Some playing through a Souls game on an easy difficulty learning the "pro" style would be more of an accomplishment than someone cheesing on default. You have to know how someone played the game to determine how much of an accomplishment there was in beating it. Just beating it alone tells me almost nothing except like I said before they liked the game or they're a Souls twat. The act of just beating Dark Souls is as meaningless as beating any normal game out there.
Also this...
CaitSeith said:
It doesn't matter if you believe in Cain and Able or not, the comparison has implications that non-religious people understand, in the same way that non Neo-Pagans can understand comparisons to Greek and Norse mythology. I wouldn't compare Loki arranging the death of Baldr to anything less serious than a murder. Because it wouldn't make any sense otherwise. It really baffles me at how tone deaf that comment was and how you're just denying it. Why? Because I think comparing people who think an easy mode would benefit them to a goddamn murderer is easily one of the most asinine things I've ever heard of in my life. Also, remember when I said earlier that I have what is apparently a superpower? The ability to care about people that aren't in a group I identity is.Kerg3927 said:
Yes, yes they do. End of story. Maybe if you get out of your bubble you can actually meet some of them. None of these people are complaining? You know, I think you've lost track of this, but a lot of us generally hold the idea that an easy mode in Dark Souls wouldn't be a bad idea. That's it. Also. Pft. Ha. You're funny. You really think I need a proxy to point out how there's a good portion of Souls fans need to stop taking themselves so goddamn seriously. I'm not sorry that you're apparently offended by it. This is a garden that has more than a few self-righteous twats in it, and if you get offended by that and want to deny it, well, that's your problem.
You've been on the defensive. Except you started off by comparing people who want an easy mode to murderers. Yeah. Real defensive. Also, implying that it's wrong and "immoral." No I didn't, please quote where I called it immortal, except you can't because I didn't. Do not lie about me because you don't like my ideas for your favorite piece of electronic entertainment.
You're free to walk away whenever you want. I'm not forcing you to reply to me. And I find it a bit rich saying that you gave up on trying to change my mind, considering the sheer volume of people you're arguing with in this thread.
Three million customers is not a niche audience, end of story. Dark Souls is not exactly a rare and hyper specialized title anymore anyway, not when everyone and their mother is trying to copy it. Death's Gambit, Salt and Sanctuary, Nioh, Lords of the Fallen, the Surge, Necropolis. Just to name some.
Who wants to tell him about Elagabalus? The Roman Emperor who was "delighted to be called the mistress, the wife, the queen of Hierocles"Kerg3927 said:
The other thing is, yes games are a unique medium being interactive, but a good chunk of their appeal is the aspect of challenge and discovery. The old Zelda games were great for this, and I think FROM realized there was a void in the industry for people who grew up with those challenging games and wanted something that recaptured that feeling but also thematically more mature (for lack of better word). Some people talk about having games where every little variable can be changed from a gameplay standpoint before they even get started, but why even bother at that point if you?re just going to throw the ruleset out? It literally makes the developer?s efforts appear hollow and rather inconsequential. Games need rules to function, and if players can just subvert them all at a whim, then they?re only cheating themselves and sabotaging the intended experience. You can see it in the attitudes across the spectrum of gamers as plain as day. It reminds me of the saying, if you don?t stand for something you?ll fall for anything.
Hence, yet another example [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YD7CAL7f60c] of how this is true. But really, tomayto, tomahto. Chicken, meet egg. People are ultimately going to form their own conclusions and confirmation bias will prevail as this thread has demonstrated over the last 11 pages. The only question left is, why such a small selection of games shouldn?t be allowed to continue as they?ve been designed, considering how strong of an affinity they?ve built over the last decade partly because of it. The irony that?s left is the people asking for an easy mode are typically the least likely to care in the end, since they?d naturally have the least amount of virtual skin invested in these kinds of games. To them they?d more than likely just wind up another item on the buffet of digital consumption.
Hence, yet another example [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YD7CAL7f60c] of how this is true. But really, tomayto, tomahto. Chicken, meet egg. People are ultimately going to form their own conclusions and confirmation bias will prevail as this thread has demonstrated over the last 11 pages. The only question left is, why such a small selection of games shouldn?t be allowed to continue as they?ve been designed, considering how strong of an affinity they?ve built over the last decade partly because of it. The irony that?s left is the people asking for an easy mode are typically the least likely to care in the end, since they?d naturally have the least amount of virtual skin invested in these kinds of games. To them they?d more than likely just wind up another item on the buffet of digital consumption.
Interesting. I assume you think there's a oenis coming with those balls. Maybe that's a bad assumption. What would you call a person with a vagina and balls? I assume there is actually a person like this in the world.Kerg3927 said:
He didn't call them twats. He didn't even call them pretentious. He just said that Dark Souls was challenging, but not hard, once you understand the patterns of the bosses. Well, no shit, Sherlock. That's what the Souls games are all about. Learning the boss's patterns through repetition (dying) and then beating them. After you've memorized every move and have the timing down, of course it's not hard... anymore.Phoenixmgs said:
Strafe backstab doesn't work on every mob. Ranged weapons only work in certain situations. And neither works on most bosses. Co-op no doubt helps with some bosses. On others it can make things worse by raising the boss's hp, especially if you get unlucky and summon someone who is bad. These are just tactics built into the game. Gadgets in one's Batman utility belt. It's not the same as flipping a switch and making EVERYTHING about the game except maybe gravity easier across the board.Phoenixmgs said:
Kinda pretentious to claim beating Souls the cheesy way is the same as beating x game on easy mode.Phoenixmgs said:
One still requires the player to find the cheesy way, commit the considerable extra time involved to play it that way, still have to be careful between bonfires/lanterns to make any progress, let alone still be playing against the same strength character vs enemies that anyone playing ?pro? (more pretentiousness) would.
The other presents the player with far greater strength while enemies have far less, far more items, ammo, etc. than they?d normally have, checkpoints galore to guarantee progress by simply mashing buttons all the way through, whether it?s old school God of War or Devil May Cry (especially 2, which surprise surprise, is considered a blemish on the series).
Before Cain was a murderer, he was just jealous. The murder was incidental. What caused him to want to murder? Petty jealousy. Hence the main lesson is don't be jealous of others. You may disagree and interpret it differently, and that's fine. I'm not a biblical scholar. I haven't opened a bible in over 30 years.erttheking said:
Don't buy it. People don't argue for 11 pages about something they merely think "wouldn't be a bad idea." Your motivation goes much deeper than that, IMO. Or else you're just bored AF.erttheking said:
More name calling. I haven't heard that term in years, and now I've seen it twice in the same day from two different people. Anyway, as I've said before, I think this is your primary motivation, and it has little to do with the game and little to do with helping poor low-skilled gamers. You think myself and a "good portion of Souls fans" are twats. Well, I'm sorry that you feel that way. Can't be liked by everyone, I guess.erttheking said:
See above about Cain. I didn't intend to say anything about murderers. I was talking about jealousy. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.erttheking said:
And "implying" means to suggest something without coming right out and saying it. I can't quote you because you never said it outright. But you certainly implied it. For example, saying you care about others, implying that I don't. I care about others, too. We simply have different philosophies about how best to help someone. You seem to believe that anyone who wants something should have it handed to them, if possible. I believe they should instead, if possible, be put in a position where they can work for it and earn it, because it will be more rewarding that way and build self-confidence and self-pride.
And exactly WHY do you think all those companies are trying to copy the Souls formula, including its lack of an easy mode? Million dollar question. I mean, if the Souls games are so flawed because they don't have an easy mode, why not just copy everything else, but then add an easy mode and IMPROVE it? It's because adding an easy mode is not an improvement. Simple as that.erttheking said:
Interesting. He was also called "Caesar," and he apparently had balls.erttheking said:
Or they did what what the Git Gud folks told them to do and looked up videos and guides, ironically spoiling themselves on the experience of the game far more than an easy mode would've. It's a fundamental blind spot in the argument.Kerg3927 said:
Unless they fail out completely, thus giving up on a game they used to be excited about and possibly bitter about wasting money.Kerg3927 said:
Hi, I'm altnamejag and that's for DS3 worked out for me until a British madman helped me understand how Soul's games worked
Women can have balls Kerg, just like men don't have to. If devs have different difficulty modes or accessibility options, then using said options is "legitimate". Just like how adding an easy mode to Mega Man 2 put it on top of damn near everybody's "Best Mega Man game" list.Kerg3927 said:
I've got a different idea: it's because the Git Gud types will downplay literally every other reason a person might be interested an a Souls game to play up difficulty as it's sole selling point, and they get so damn loud about it they drown out other conversations. The Souls aesthetic is being sloppily copied similarly to Modern Military Shooters. If they bothered adding their own twist, they could be the next Mega Man 2 or Fortnight.Kerg3927 said:
Don't you realize you can do that in any other medium of games? PC games via mods have been doing that for years as well. The "vanilla" versions of some games, like Bethesda games, are considered just OK by many. It's not like it's some new radical thing to change the rules of a game. Video game devs are also by far the worst when it comes to game design in comparison to other mediums. How is lowing the time enemies search in Dishonored cheating yourself when all you're doing is lowering the amount of time you're going to wait for the enemies to reset? So many things in video games just waste time vs adding challenge, even the Souls death punishments just result in wasting time over making the game harder, and they don't even make thematic sense in Sekiro at all.hanselthecaretaker said:
I call them twats (just for conciseness), I never said he did. Did you not pay attention to how he described them? He said many Souls players have the attitude that Souls is "the real hard stuff" and that other games' super hard difficulties should be easy because they played Souls with Rurikhan saying you need to get "your heads out your asses". By claiming something to be more than it is, is literally the definition of pretentious. How is Souls special or different from other games when learning the mechanics and patterns is common to every action combat game? Many other action games have far harder enemy patterns to learn like say Sekiro. And Souls doesn't even make you learn enemy patterns because you can shield or use magic to bypass that anyway. Souls player talk up the game like its some massive challenge to beat when it's just not true.Kerg3927 said:
I didn't try strafe backstab on everything because that's boring but it worked on almost all the enemies I tried it on. There wouldn't be a comic on this very site about it if it wasn't true. Ranged weapons work in like every situation outside of boss battles because enemies don't stray out of their zones to come get you. The games are really just getting through trash mobs to get to a potentially challenging boss fight. The bosses' AI is not meant to fight against multiple players. Some people may want to just experience the boss fights and bypass the trash mobs because it's not engaging content to them so why not have the option to make that easier? And there is a Boss Rush mod on PC for Dark Souls for those that want to do that.
I said some people that do play a game on easy difficulty can be more of accomplishment than others playing a game on normal due to the way the game was played by both parties. If someone is cheesing the hell out of default and the person on easy is learning the mechanics and combat system, then the person on easy accomplished more. How is that pretentious? Searching YouTube is not much of a skill. If you notice, I almost always put "pro" in quotes because of said pretentiousness but everyone knows the playstyle I'm talking about without constantly explaining it every time. Progression doesn't equate to accomplishment, learning the game and getting better equates to accomplishment.hanselthecaretaker said:
Frankly the more you talk about using that comparison, the more I feel like you used it without really thinking about it or understanding the implications behind it.Kerg3927 said:
You're arguing with around twice as many people as I'm arguing with. Pots shouldn't call kettles black. Also, this is, you know, a gaming forum. We talk about stupid stuff for long periods of times here. I mean, it's what you're doing.
You compared people who wanted an easy mode to murderers, you have no right to complain about name-calling. Also. Did I say that you were a twat? Please, go through my post and point out where I said that you were, or linked your actions to the twats. I didn't do it. You keep doing this. You keep making up things about what I said. And I find it very odd that you keep criticizing me for the way I'm talking to you when you keep pulling that stunt. But please, continue to construct baseless strawmen of me.
Again, it doesn't matter what you didn't mean to play up the murderer angle, you compared people who wanted an easy mode to the first biblical murder. If you didn't understand the subject matter, you shouldn't have brought it up. That's on you. I was implying that you don't care about others? Uh. I don't have to imply it. You said it yourself.
And once a-fucking-gain, you make shit up about me. You say that I think people should just have everything they want handed to them. Ok. You're either not actually reading what I write, or you're doing this on purpose. I have said multiple times that I think an easy mode should still be challenging to some degree. Can I ask you something? Did you honestly not see all the times I said that? Or are you just chosing to ignore me? Kindly answer this question.Kerg3927 said:
Uh-huh. No offense, that isn't exactly a watertight argument. In fact, it's borderline a Chewbaca Defense. Because as it turns out, simply copying a game doesn't make a good game. Look at Lords of the Fallen.
First of all, Caesar was the title to the heir of the Roman Emperor. The Emperor was called Augustus. Secondly, he greatly preferred to be called Agusta. And as ruler of the Roman Empire, he could do whatever the heck he wanted. And often did. He wasn't well liked.
In terms of difficulty I don?t care about mods as they only skew the game one way or another; that?s their main purpose after all. I?d rather have the intended design speak for itself for these types of games. The Daughters of Ash mod for Dark Souls sounds interesting if that?s how everyone plays it so they can share a common ground in discussion, but when people .cfg things one way or another those experiences are outliers, since it?s not how everyone is playing them so how can everyone be expected to relate to it.Phoenixmgs said:
I also don?t understand how playing a game without difficulty modes the ?easy? way automatically equates to cheesing everything, whereas a game with them means you?re still learning something, as if they?re designed so much better (which you stated to the contrary above in the first place yourself). Ive ?cheesed? through a decent chunk of areas in Demon?s Souls and Dark Souls and it still required far more of my concentration and deliberation than any action game I?ve played on easy or even normal difficulty. Hard is basically where you have to start paying attention and being careful with what and how your playing, because most of the time it simply means dying or depleting supplies faster.
Yet they find the need for them to change...why? So they can be less positive and memorable experiences? If they played them all it must not have been that bad; otherwise why would they unless theyCaitSeith said:
A. Enjoy suffering.
B. Suffer from the demands of their career which require completing games in a timely manner for review, hence the lure of easy modes to help assuage their personal situations.