New hard game comes out. Idiot press wants easy mode.

[ChupathingyX]

It didn't help that the game doesn't describe any mechanics to you. Like unhallowing to get a buddy to help. Or being able to upgrade the number of estus flasks.

Estus upgrade is explained in the manual and online play is explained somewhat in the White Soapstone description and the manual.

Or being able to upgrade weapons. Becuase I missed all those on my first playthrough Anor Londo.

So you never spoke to Andre, a character you have to walk past in order to reach Anor Londo, and check all of his dialogue options?

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

You're giving me enough straw to build an army here man. Didn't like it? Isn't the concept clearly that they like the idea but struggle to get into it? Hence my suggestion, easy mode that is still challenging?

Yeah I know you used it as a metaphor for jealousy. It's just that using a metaphor on how someone was so jealous that he killed his brother when talking about the possibility of an easy mode in a video game is overdramatic, to say the least. Also it requires jealously to be present. It isn't. That's you imagining things and taking a video game way too seriously. And I'm gonna let you in on something. The games are special to me too. But I don't lose my shit over a suggested addition that I would never touch anyway. It's not hard.

"Test of gamer mantle." Oh please. I think Dark Souls is hard, but test of gamer mantle hard? Not even close.

My problem was not making biblical references. It was you thinking that comparing people who criticized an aspect of your game to the first murderer was somehow appropriate.

 

[EvilRoy]

New round of game critique comes out. Idiot alleged gamers cry foul at implication that people can enjoy the same hobby differently after they spent the majority of their life basing their self esteem, entire personality, and reason to live off achieving imaginary goals.

Fundamentally the argument for an easy mode is exactly the same as the one against. "I want more stuff for me." "No, I want more stuff for ME."

They're both appeals for more for yourself. The only difference between them is that one is arguing the default should remain, and the other is arguing the default should change. Default usually wins out because inviting yourself to a party and insisting it changes is usually considered the realm of assholes .

 

[Erttheking]

and the other is arguing the default should change.

Can I get a citation on people saying that easy should be the default mode? Pretty much everyone I've seen has suggested an easy mode

 

[EvilRoy]

and the other is arguing the default should change.

Can I get a citation on people saying that easy should be the default mode? Pretty much everyone I've seen has suggested an easy mode

Default being the situation as it exists.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

If every tall mountain on the planet had an elevator taking you to the top, the accomplishment of the mountain climber would be diminished.

...no it wouldn't. There are thousands of ships that go across the Atlantic Ocean every day, but the guy who rows across it is hailed as amazing.

 

[CritialGaming]

Some of us have things called 'jobs' that don't ALLOW us to 'master' every damn game that comes out.

I'd love to play this game, but I also know that I don't have the time (or the skill) to complete it.

Why do children, and the unemployed, think everyone has the 10s or 100s of hours to master every game out there?

Why should people feel the need to change a piece of entertainment to fit their personal life in order to enjoy it, rather than simply be able to accept it for what it is?

I guarantee that if SoulsBorne and Sekiro (and other games) had easy modes to pick from on a menu screen like the vast majority of games already do, a significant piece of their identity and reputation would change on a fundamental level. It?s a part of the creative?s conscious design choice, which is not even native to video games. The only thing arrogant or elitist about it would be if someone is feeling entitled enough to want it changed to suit them personally.

If I don?t not have the time or skill to beat Sekiro, then oh well; tough shit on me. If I really enjoy the lore or whatever then I?ll grab a beer and watch a Let?s Play, which would probably be more enjoyable anyways if I couldn?t be asked to respect the design choices made with it in the first place. It?s a far more efficient alternative that would take far less precious time and effort.

 

[CritialGaming]

I suppose all board games should play as simply as checkers too, or all novels should read at an adolescent level. Or hell, maybe all recipes in a cookbook should have an easy bake option because it wouldn?t change a damn thing right...?!

No, because that fundamentally changes the item to be different for ALL users -- it affects all users' experiences as those changes cannot be optional.

You can't make a board game as simple as draughts because you would have to fundamentally change the game FOR ALL USERS. You can, however, have optional rulesets, and some games do. Not seeing the outcry about that...

You can't make the same book read at an adolescent level for one person but not another, as the words on the page aren't optional. If you change them for the kids, they'll be different for the adult.

You can't have an easy-bake option for all recipes because that's just not how cooking works.

I guess what I'm saying is that none of your analogies work and none address the issue of this being optional.

The point was why does everything have to cater to the lowest common denominator or have options to do so with, when in some cases it only dilutes the intended purpose of the creative work?

 

[Trunkage]

It didn't help that the game doesn't describe any mechanics to you. Like unhallowing to get a buddy to help. Or being able to upgrade the number of estus flasks.

Estus upgrade is explained in the manual and online play is explained somewhat in the White Soapstone description and the manual.

Or being able to upgrade weapons. Becuase I missed all those on my first playthrough Anor Londo.

So you never spoke to Andre, a character you have to walk past in order to reach Anor Londo, and check all of his dialogue options?

I got it on Steam, so I never looked at a manual, I didn't trust those Soapstone when they kept trolling me (eg. squash by boulder, jump in the wrong spot)

Now, when I first played Dark Souls, I was told by an aquiantence that you should go into Dark Souls blind to get the best experience. That was my first mistake.

I took the Master key. That was my second mistake. After the first bell, I went the back door into Blighttown. I never saw The Depths, the Capre Demon, and I didn't realise Undead Parish was connected to Sen's. I rang the second bell and had no idea what gate had been opened. I thought it might be forward but the lava stopped me. I actually saw those yellow forcefields and wondered what the hell was that. But, due to lava, I had to backtrack to that gate I opened with the master key.

I went through the Valley of the Drakes (well ran, because that was stupid, but the graveyard next to Firelink taught me that sometimes I just need to run), Darkroot Basin and into the back of Parish and found Sen's. I don't remember seeing Andre in the first time through. I cant remember now, but I think he's on a different level than I had gone. I didn't know any of this stuff until I researched things after Anor Londo.

 

[Trunkage]

The main question still remains: we live in a time where absolutely every AAA single-player game is easy as pie to the point they almost play themselves, then why must that one challenging game that is released once every blue moon be easy too? I really don't understand that entire mindset when there are so many easy games to choose from.

I also agree with that comment about the path of least resistance. It's human nature to want the quickest results for the least amount of effort. The only way to prevent this is to not have the easy option at all. And thankfully Fromsoftware understands this.

You are saying something totally different. If triple A got rid of hard modes, you'd have an argument. The hard mode is still there. It doesn't disappear if someone makes an easy mode too.

If you cant handle NOT choosing easy mode, that says something about you, not the game. Control yourself and stop blaming everyone else for your 'moral failings'. Or, you know, stop pretending its a moral failing. And stop forcing others to follow your personal morality.

I love challenge. I will always pick the hardest setting that's not an Ironman (except Xcoms, I can only do second hardest. I'm not good enough). Choosing the easiest path is not something I have to deal with, I naturally choose hard. But I'm not going to take an easy option away from others just because I like something.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Fundamentally the argument for an easy mode is exactly the same as the one against. "I want more stuff for me." "No, I want more stuff for ME."

They're both appeals for more for yourself.

No, one is arguing for more choice for themselves, and the other is happy with the way things are so they don't want more choices for other people that don't affect them.

An easy option doesn't affect people who don't choose the easy option. If it was mandatory, the only option, yes, there'd be an issue. It isn't so there isn't.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

So yeah, Mega Man was totally ruined by the existence of an easy mode option. Total ruined it?s reputation as Nintendo Hard. From Software should take the Mega Man two route and have a Normal Mode and a Difficult Mode.
[/sarc]

Of course, with MegaMan 2 ?Difficult? was the norm and only option in Japan, with ?Normal? added for the US release as an easy mode. Doesn?t seem to have hurt the game series at all. Like it?s been said, just because Easy is too Easy for you doesn?t mean the next guy isn?t gonna feel that oppressive and dire atmosphere. People saying ?but weak-willed players will just use Easy and cheat themselves out of an experience? like weak-willed players aren?t already spoiling themselves rotten by watching Let?s Plays to figure out boss fights and mechanics, let alone searching for cheese strats. An easier mode would at least let them hang in the game longer before they have to spoil the mystery and wonder by watching Jeff ?el? ?ardcore? McFlambe?s 87 part Twitch stream to figure out where to go next.

And another fucking thing, if you want players to experience the game themselves, why is y?all?s first piece of advice ?read up on the strats and watch some Let?s Plays?? Doesn?t that defeat the entire freaking purpose? What kind of advice is ?an easy mode would ruin the experience, so watch a Let?s Play instead?? The fuck kind of moon-logic is that?

 

[Casual Shinji]

The point was why does everything have to cater to the lowest common denominator or have options to do so with, when in some cases it only dilutes the intended purpose of the creative work?

And what is the intended purpose? To have the fact that you CAN'T change the difficulty constantly hang over your head? Because I never got that from these games. I got that they were hard. I also got that God of War on Challenging was hard, or that Horizon: Zero Dawn on Ultra-Hard was hard. And on those games I never felt enticed to lower the difficulty even when dying 10 times in a row to the same enemy.

Is Sekiro having an English dub catering to the lowest common denominator as well? It's not the way the game was intended (the Japanese language option is literally the default), does this option delute the experience? How about the fact that you can tweek and change the controls to suit your needs, or turn off the music all together? These people aren't getting the true, undiluted experience.

And here's the thing, people are going to find a way to make a game easier no matter what. All this talk of 'path of least resistence' is total BS. Whether it's Dark Souls, Bloodborne, or Sekiro, people will try to exploit the game's mechnics to cheat and make things easier on themselves. Eveyone who has played these games has done this; running past enemies to get back to a Boss, throwing rocks to kite enemies and deal with them one by one, or ofcourse staying in an area with easier enemies to grind for EXP. This is not the path of least resistence, it's expoitation. And there's nothing wrong with that, but don't try to make it out to be like these games are some kind of pure construction and that adding one measily little lower difficulty would tarnish it.

 

[Erttheking]

and the other is arguing the default should change.

Can I get a citation on people saying that easy should be the default mode? Pretty much everyone I've seen has suggested an easy mode

Default being the situation as it exists.

Let?s find out then.

Does anyone arguing for an easy mode want the easy mode to be the default?

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I'm not against the idea, but I don't care either way. Git gud or don't. It's all the same to me.

 

[dreng3]

Having played a fair bit I'd say that Sekiro could, in a sense, use an easy mode, and by easy mode I mean reintroducing some features from Dark Souls 1 through 3. In DS you could, if you hadn't gotten gud yet, always stay and grind some more souls to improve your stats to better your chances of taking down the next section. In Sekiro it is all about skills which makes mechanical improvement more difficult.

 

[Squilookle]

Let me ask you this: if you made a game with an easy mode and a hard mode, and lets say there were areas you could only access and abilities/cheats/weapons you could only unlock from the hard mode... would that be more fair? time-poor players can still get the story, while the masochists are rewarded for slugging it out on the hardest difficulty. Plus those rewards are an incentive for the unskilled to get gud, as they say...

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

Arguing against easy mode is entiteled nonsense. How does it detract from your experience if someone less good at the game than yourself has a chance to finish it? Do they break into your house, steal your copy of the game and permanently rewrite the code to lock it in easy mode? No? Then maybe stop complaining and enjoy the game. Is the enjoyment of FromSoftware games finite or something? If you have to resort to this kind of petty and aggressive gatekeeping to enjoy a game, maybe take a step back and re-evaluate your actions

 

[EvilRoy]

and the other is arguing the default should change.

Can I get a citation on people saying that easy should be the default mode? Pretty much everyone I've seen has suggested an easy mode

Default being the situation as it exists.

Let?s find out then.

Does anyone arguing for an easy mode want the easy mode to be the default?

I don't really see what you aren't getting. I already explained you didn't read default as I intended it.

Fundamentally the argument for an easy mode is exactly the same as the one against. "I want more stuff for me." "No, I want more stuff for ME."

They're both appeals for more for yourself.

No, one is arguing for more choice for themselves, and the other is happy with the way things are so they don't want more choices for other people that don't affect them.

An easy option doesn't affect people who don't choose the easy option. If it was mandatory, the only option, yes, there'd be an issue. It isn't so there isn't.

Only works if you don't consider time and money as limited resources. "I want you spend more time and money on me" "no, spend it on ME". Adding an easy mode is not a free or instant action, and therefore necessarily doing so means less time or money for something else. If you asked me "Evilroy, would you give up some portion of content or polish in this game so someone else can have an easier version of this game to play" my answer would be no, out of self interest. And that is basically what you are asking for here - if you've ever worked on large projects with a PM or as a PM then you'll have felt this head on. There is a certain amount of time before a due date, and a certain number of manhours in the budget. Add one thing, reduce another.

You can make an argument that adding an easy mode would attract more players and thus more money, but I honestly question that on the basis that I'm not sure saying that a game is good, but you'll have to play on easy, is much of a selling point. Adding an easy mode might help people get to the end of the game, but I don't see "don't worry, no matter what we'll get you to the end" as being a particular draw to new customers.

 

[Casual Shinji]

An easy option doesn't affect people who don't choose the easy option. If it was mandatory, the only option, yes, there'd be an issue. It isn't so there isn't.

Only works if you don't consider time and money as limited resources. "I want you spend more time and money on me" "no, spend it on ME". Adding an easy mode is not a free or instant action, and therefore necessarily doing so means less time or money for something else. If you asked me "Evilroy, would you give up some portion of content or polish in this game so someone else can have an easier version of this game to play" my answer would be no, out of self interest. And that is basically what you are asking for here - if you've ever worked on large projects with a PM or as a PM then you'll have felt this head on. There is a certain amount of time before a due date, and a certain number of manhours in the budget. Add one thing, reduce another.

Dailing down some numbers and/or turning some up would barely cost much of either. Fromsoft patches their games all the time, changing numbers, so an Easy mode would hardly cost them an arm and a leg. And being backed by Activision I doubt they were working on a shoestring budget.

You can make an argument that adding an easy mode would attract more players and thus more money, but I honestly question that on the basis that I'm not sure saying that a game is good, but you'll have to play on easy, is much of a selling point. Adding an easy mode might help people get to the end of the game, but I don't see "don't worry, no matter what we'll get you to the end" as being a particular draw to new customers.

Not everyone plays games the way you do. Some people prefer to play on Easy, to them it's not an insult or patronizing as you seem to think.