Ninja Theory Defends Dante Redesign [UPDATED]

fulano

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They do have a point when they say the original Dante looked silly. I wonder what would have happened had they kept the exact same design but gave Dante white hair.

Either way, Dante still comes across as a pampered child that "doesn't give a shit" so I guess they're still doing their job right at Ninja Theory.
 

NinjaTigerXIII

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Oh my God, have any of people who are ripping apart the new Dante Actually looked at the new design? And I mean really look at it? He is wearing a red coat and red pants, they are just very dark red and the back of his hair is white and I'm guessing that throughout the course of the game his hair is going to get more white until he will be all Badass Dante again. And If that doesn't happen then yeah Ninja Theory you fail.
 

Bluesclues

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blakfayt said:
LunarCircle said:
"If Dante, dressed as he was, walked into any bar outside of Tokyo, he'd get laughed out..."
Hm. Interesting. I'd think that, in keeping with Dante's personality (especially with what he was wearing in DMC3), the character wouldn't care what others thought of his clothing choice.

I'm all for artistic license, and Ninja Theory is free to design things as they will, but since when did someone have to be "emo" to show that they had a traumatic past?
Actually I'd think that DMC3 Dante would probably scoff then continue to beat the shit out of every guy laughing and end with some quip about how they spilled his drink. Also, Dante doesn't live in Tokyo, watch the anime and it looks like some kind of 1970's Rome or somthing.

Personally I think it could work, I don't mind the emo look as long as he doesn't act emo. Honestly I think if you say "real fans will hate this!" you're more announcing that you aren't a fan because stagnation has killed games before, and demanding that they stay the same till they die is like what every fan of Heroes did, ***** until it's all like the first part (which was good) and stays that way until everyone with half a brain goes "wait a minute, nothings actually happening! It's just one big circle jerk!" and leaves. Seriously, give it a chance before burning a few effigies.
You can't use the Heroes arguement here because fans aren't asking for the entire game to be a carbon copy of one of the other four, they're just angry that the character was redesigned based on what Ninja Theory thought was cool, instead of what the fanbase thought (you know, the people who are going to initially buy the game?). If you're going to redesign the whole game or put a new twist to it fine, but there's no real reason for the character's general appearance to have been totally revamped.
 

David Bray

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LeonLethality said:
Since when was emo cooler than badass?
This.

I don't want to play some whimpy little whelp who spends more time combing his hair over his eye than actually fighting.
 

Brain_Cleanser

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LeonLethality said:
Since when was emo cooler than badass?
Styles and shit fly WAY different in Japan than they do in the US.

Anyway, being one of like, six people who actually like the redesign, I'm feeling there's no need to justify the redesign. It's a DMC game, all I care about is the combat and he HSQ cut scenes.
 

LeonLethality

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Brain_Cleanser said:
LeonLethality said:
Since when was emo cooler than badass?
Styles and shit fly WAY different in Japan than they do in the US.

Anyway, being one of like, six people who actually like the redesign, I'm feeling there's no need to justify the redesign. It's a DMC game, all I care about is the combat and he HSQ cut scenes.
Aesthetics count for a game too, every little thing adds up to the whole experience. Even if DMC really is all about its over the top gameplay but I don't think the badass look added to the over the top gameplay while this looks like it will not. I'm still going to give the game a shot despite how much I am hating the redesign but something tells me the looks alone will give the game a completely different feel.
 

Jared

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Jul 14, 2009
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Still dont like it - Loved the old Dante. Witty, awesome, and great design...the new one, just...dosnt have the same flare...
 

ChocoFace

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The only part i don't like about this, is his hair-colour. Not a big fan of what looks like highlighted hair, to be honest.
 

Therumancer

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Taking a well established character and modifying them this heavily is a bad idea. Dante is an iconic character that is popular as he was, and has been crossing over into everything from JRPGs (Nocturne) to fighting games nowadays. What's more the game was always intended to have niche appeal, being a very difficult action game, that was going for a sort of alternative vibe. It's not the kind of game that could, or should, be directed at the mainstream audience, and as such making the character more appealing to the market is kind of pointless.

To some extent this reminds me of the whole "Samus: Other M" conflict that is going on now, where they not only gave the character a voice through cinematics, which might have worked, but used that to change the entire character. Samus went from a ruthless anti-hero, sort of like a female Boba Fett, to an insecure little girl with a battle suit.

Of course, I also suspect that right now we're seeing an adaption to the change in international markets. Consider that most countries with decent amounts of money to spend on things like video games are on a giant censorship bandwagon right now. Even the US is engaged in a major battle over this right now. Germany, Australia, and differant parts of europe at varius times have also been having game content issues.

While nothing about Dante really offends on the levels being addressed so far, I think right now we're seeing the game industry trying to pre-emptively adapt by having characters that are less likely to offend. The whole "anti-hero" thing that Samus, along with her cold bloodedly dispatching monsters, can be tired into the whole "attitude of violence" some people are complaining about (which goes beyond the depiction of those events themselves). Making her more girly and insecure about it, presents a direction from which the character can be defended more easily than if she remained a more straight forward action her. Dante on the other hand looked like he was an alternative lifestyle poster child. Not gay, but the kind of guy you might see hanging out in a fetish club or whatever. This was an intentional thing, Dante is not supposed to be the kind of guy who would hang out in a "normal" bar but be on the cool edge of the alternative world so to speak. The new Dante on the other hand looks like he's a more socially acceptable kind of cool, and could wlak into an ordinary dance club dressed like that without a problem. That isn't the essence of the character as it's supposed to be, but it's also less likely to invoke attention for censors (both public and private) especially if they increase in their degree of concern. They win on the current stuff and they are going to move on to simple implication and innuendo.
 

LawlessSquirrel

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-Zen- said:
I mean really, if they want the main character to be that different from his predecessor, why don't they just make him an entirely new character?
That is my issue with it exactly. It looks like he's only Dante in name, in which case it's just fan service keeping that much, despite the backlash. They could change the name and the issue would be gone, or just the design, or even say it's an 'alternate universe' Dante; the way they have it isn't helping.
 

NickCaligo42

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WARNING: Long, rambling tirade approaching.


Uhh, guys?

[img src="http://www.infoaddict.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/superman1.jpg" /]

For your consideration. A character design that's more than 80 years old and still in circulation. This was never fashionable to begin with, but the iconography outweighs the realism or trendiness of any alternatives and thus no matter how many times they've tried to give old Sups an "update," DC always returns to this design--usually after no small amount of bashing from... well, everybody, fan and non-fan alike. You don't just change an image that's cemented into peoples' minds because you don't think it's "with it." In fact, the most certain way to make something feel incredibly dated is to try and "update" it instead of remain true to its original spirit. Changing the look and music to something that feels more "modern" means grounding it in stuff that will be completely out-of-style in less than five years.

All those general arguments aside, I've voiced my argument against this character design many a time, and it has nothing to do with whether or not it's the original Dante or not. This guy looks sickly and mangy, like he's been living in a dumpster. Devil May Cry--and Dante himself, in fact--is about stylishness. He's all about being a vain, showboating jackass. The FIRST THING the old Dante would say, looking at this guy? "Dude. it's called a COMB. Ya might wanna try one sometime. Phew! And a shower."

This is a guy who, facing a villain who had taken on the visage of his father--and then subsequently a giant blob, claiming that he had attained the power of "the REAL Sparda," simply replied, "Dude! My father wasn't so hideous! Ain't you ever gotten a look at me?" and proceeded to casually admire himself in the reflection of his sword before continuing to taunt him. He'd never stand for this getup. The fact that Ninja Theory can't hone in on that characterization is very concerning for fans, because that characterization is very closely linked to the style-based game mechanics--which means they could easily screw those up as well as the tone of the story.

I'm going to try and keep an open mind. Best-case scenario says that this western developer has a lot to offer and can give the DMC series better environments than it's had in a while. On the other hand I'm also a firm believer in Murphy's Law, and this is the same group responsible for Heavenly Sword, which illustrates very clearly how poor a grasp they've got on both storytelling and mechanics. Frankly if I can't trust them with their own IP, I'm not sure I can trust them with an entry in a major game franchise, either.

Furthermore, their attitude per this column suggests that of all the games to be handling they shouldn't be doing this one. They've got a strong sense of film envy; the original game was more arcadey in nature, which is something they'll miss or ignore in their attempts to imitate movies that DMC has nothing to do with. They're a western developer--based in England, in fact--and don't seem to have a good sense of Japanese pop culture; anybody who knows anything about it knows that DMC 1 or 3's Dante is pretty tame compared with some of the things people wear in downtown Tokyo.

Hey, Ninja Theory. Ever seen Gackt?



Yeah, that guy Square's based every character design they've made since 1998 on? News flash: Peak of fashion. Seriously, the guy's one of the biggest rock stars in Japan. You wanna tell me how THIS...



... is honestly any worse? And this isn't even taking into account the fact that people flounce around in Victorian-inspired dresses in public down there, among other absurd fashion trends. Seriously, Ninja Theory, you'd be so much more credible if you left the Tokyo fashion argument out of this. It just says to me that you don't know anything about Japanese pop culture and therefore don't understand a lot of the roots of the series--not just action films like Blade, but all the manga that Hideki Kamiya referenced in developing the original character concept as well. Two more things while we're on this track. First, it's at this time I want to draw to your attention that I'm an UNPAID FAN and I've done more research than they have. Second. Well.



If the Gackt argument didn't win you over, here's Wesley Snipes. And you know what? He still looks damn good like that. What's the problem with Dante's old character design again? I wouldn't go out on the streets like that myself, but that's the thing--Blade's not a normal person. Gackt isn't a normal person. Most of all, Dante isn't a normal person. He's a freaking rock star, as are many heroes of this kind.

Okay. Rambling like hell, getting back on track.

They talk about this being an "origin story;" what origin? Dante was born to a human woman and a demon-turned-hero called Sparda, with an identical twin brother named Vergil. Shit hits the fan, all hell literally breaks loose. Who you gonna call? Devil May Cry. Dante at your service. That's the origin! There honestly ain't a lot to it, and most of it was told in DMC3. How many origins can the guy have? Or is it that Ninja Theory just wasn't paying attention and doesn't care? Being the pessimist, I'd lean more towards the latter. Remember, explaining shit that doesn't need to be explained often spoils a story. The Star Wars prequels taught us that much. Even if there is room to say more about Dante's backstory, that doesn't mean you should, because like with so many rogues and scoundrels a lot of the charm in him is the mystery.

Finally, they talk about Dante having to be cool, but they define "cool," visually, with a mangy, incredibly sickly-looking zombie raver man who looks like he got rejected from the set of "The Crow." Yeah. Arms like sticks, gaunt skin, sunken eyes, and hair that looks like it's recovering from leukemia treatment is totally cool. Meanwhile he's got that voice. That gravely-sounding, smouldering voice, like a volcano. Hold on, wasn't Dante in DMC3 and 4 voiced by the guy who played Adam from the original Power Rangers? Why the hell can't I have that? Was he too fun to listen to? Were the table scraps of Cole McGrath from inFamous 1 really more appealing? You notice Sucker Punch did that once and are changing his voice to something more normal for the second game. Gee, I wonder why. Could it be that gravely, ten-pack-a-day voices are trite, irritating, and distracting, and not cool in the slightest? Could it be that some of your creative choices are actually detracting from the credibility of your story rather than adding to it?

Like, say... Dante fighting the government? Really. The government? This is officially a 90's Image comic (for those who don't know about Image: just do an image search on "Rob Liefeld," and get the eye-wash ready). At least I assume that's the government. Somehow this actually takes the theme of rebellion throughout the series and makes it even more trite, turning it into a juvenile quest to stick it to the man rather than a tale about responsibility and family ties. I'm being unfair, though--we don't know all that much about the story yet. It's just a teaser, after all. Still, it does have that 90's "grim and gritty" comic book tone to it. Kind of reminds me more of inFamous, Prototype, and the Incredible Hulk than Devil May Cry. Maybe that's just me, though.

Suppose you look past all this. Keep an open mind about the character design and have some faith that if they've got pre-packaged mechanics to work with then maybe they won't mess up the game design or try to needlessly fix what ain't broke.

It still doesn't bode well at all that the very first thing that Ninja Theory had to do after releasing their first teaser was IMMEDIATELY rush to defend the character design. From a PR standpoint, that's either like admitting it's bad but saying "we don't care, we like it better anyway because we made it," or like telling all the fans that they're wrong and what they like is stupid. If that's what you think, what does that say about your interest in doing this game justice? Any way you slice it they're in a bad situation trying to sell this game to begin with and are at this point digging themselves into a hole.

Me? I'll be happy if the game doesn't suck, but I'll be bracing myself for the worst...
 

Vault Citizen

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The only part of the old look I really miss is the white hair. I think the old design stood out more where as this design doesn't have the same impact the first did.

I'll probably give this a look at some point, I can always go back to the old games if I decide I don't like it.
 

JPH330

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Jan 31, 2010
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In my opinion, Dante has needed to change for a long time now. Completely change. And not just in appearance, but in personality. Because whenever I watch a scene in any DMC game, he just makes me want to punch my TV screen.
 

Sixties Spidey

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We've yet to see the game and how this will reboot the story. Will he get his white hair back and look like the DMC3 Dante (that was a prequel after all, right?), or will it stay as is throughout the story?

Still, gameplay's where it's gonna count, so depending whether or not it's gonna be same old Devil May Cry shit or a vast improvement from that formula, it'll be pretty exciting to see it play out.
 

NickCaligo42

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Jedi Sasquatch said:
In my opinion, Dante has needed to change for a long time now. Completely changed. And not just in appearance, but in personality. Because whenever I watch a scene in any DMC cry game, he just makes me want to punch my TV screen.
Says the guy with Deadpool as his avatar. -_o