No Dedicated Servers for Modern Warfare 2 PC, Fans Freak Out
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
You have to be kidding me. You must seriously think that we are ignorant people and believe what we read without question or any doubts. PC games for the Longest time had the option to Quick Connect to a server (For people who didnt know how to find there server.. or were too lazy) Or the option to Search for there own dedicated server.. (for top connection benefits, to meet up with there player community/Friends, and for player difficulty or game setting purposes). What activision simply did was remove the second option (To search for your own dedicated server). Activision did not create any special and advanced or futeristic feature for connecting to servers.. they simply removed an advanced and what PC gamers consider a manditory Feature. And also they removed or are "dissallowing" mods which for the longest time free of charge gaming communitys and players created for extra content towards the game which consisted of; New maps, New weapon/class customizations, and in general new content that at "GAME RELEASE" the game didnt offer. Which also prolonged the game since content was constantly added (New things to offer for an old game). Which I just got word that its because they plan on making more money off of DLC. Which to my conclusion meens that this is mostly inspite of dedicated server providers and for Greed(Them having the USE of DLC so players pay for new Content). I hope the petition sighners boycott the game.. I was a huge fan of COD4 this news is dissapointing. And I know alot of people who are pissed off and already cancelled there pre orders. Not that this is going to change anything anyway 
But hopefully send a messege out to other game developers as said many times before.
But hopefully send a messege out to other game developers as said many times before.
I found this article to be almost offensive. So what if it takes 20 minutes how to teach someone to use a server browser? They're all pretty much the same, consider it a life skill. Are people honestly so fucking lazy and impatient they can't be bothered to learn something as simple as a list you can sort by values? By this reasoning no one should bother learning how to play any new game since you have to take time to learn it.
And forced matchmaking is AWFUL. DoW2 has some pretty bad matchmaking and so much of it would have been solved by a lobby and a server list. We aren't complaining cause IW changed the connection method, we're complaining because they changed it to one that's FAR worse in terms of choice, ease and otherwise.
Also, forced matchmaking does nothing for the sense of community. Just playing with some random people means nothing, they're faceless. But if you can go on to the same server every day and play with the same people you can actually make friends.
The console owners have been getting the shaft since Day 1. Not only is multiplayer far too simplified, on the 360 you even have to pay MS the sanctified fucking HONOUR to use their mediocre system, which basically acts as a hub to connect you to a game someone else (not even microsoft) is hosting.
Lastly, this is simply the last nail in the coffin for fears of PC gamers. Games are too easy and too simplified now a days, and things just keep getting more and more accessible. We like complicated because it's generally far more rewarding customizable. Options are GOOD not bad. If you want a "DUURRRR PLAY GAME NOW" button I honestly weep.
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.
And forced matchmaking is AWFUL. DoW2 has some pretty bad matchmaking and so much of it would have been solved by a lobby and a server list. We aren't complaining cause IW changed the connection method, we're complaining because they changed it to one that's FAR worse in terms of choice, ease and otherwise.
Also, forced matchmaking does nothing for the sense of community. Just playing with some random people means nothing, they're faceless. But if you can go on to the same server every day and play with the same people you can actually make friends.
The console owners have been getting the shaft since Day 1. Not only is multiplayer far too simplified, on the 360 you even have to pay MS the sanctified fucking HONOUR to use their mediocre system, which basically acts as a hub to connect you to a game someone else (not even microsoft) is hosting.
Lastly, this is simply the last nail in the coffin for fears of PC gamers. Games are too easy and too simplified now a days, and things just keep getting more and more accessible. We like complicated because it's generally far more rewarding customizable. Options are GOOD not bad. If you want a "DUURRRR PLAY GAME NOW" button I honestly weep.
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.
Actually guy, Ive played in MM as well, so im not generalizing, it is an inferior option because it is laggy as hell, in servers the connection is stable, depending on the server, and since I wasnt planning on saying that you have no experience, nor do I care, youre the one that can go fuck off, I don't suffer e-thugs gladly child. You can't intimidate people over the net, and you're a sad individual for trying.teh_gunslinger said:
Also the whole Idea was to make the Gaming consoles more like the PC.. not to make the PC more like the Gaming Consoles... I meen thats taking a step backwards in no way taking a step forwards. And if you have a complaint about how PC Games function... then come on... I was 7 years old and easily figured out how to work a computer and runnimg my games.. I dont know anyone who doesnt accept for people who just straight up dont use computers or play games. So what are you telling me its better to limit us with options? Its better to make the community need to know far less then what they easily are capable of knowing? Are you telling me that we are all ignorant and should stay that way? Look to the future and aim to be smarter and more understanding of technology. Not more ignorant to it!
Vault boy Eddie said:
Mmmyess. Are you referring to me? If so, what on earth are you talking about? If you actually read my posts you would see that I frequently state that MM is an inferior option to dedicated servers. I also don't think I was telling anyone to 'fuck off' nor was I trying to intimidate anyone. That would be pretty futile.
My last post was actually meant as a summary of my opinion. By removing dedicated servers IW are refusing to cater to a user base. I would prefer to have both options, that is, both dedi servers and MM. That would allow me to enjoy my dedicated servers as well as the guy I was talking to enjoy random matches.
Then I lamented the attitude of many console players (or at least a vocal subset) that seem to think that we (pc gamers) had it coming and that it serves us right. Hence: "I just don't see the same solidarity from the other side. It's all 'Hahahah! Fuck you for having better multi player.'"
I honestly don't think that I was in any way trying to intimidate anyone in my posts (have you even read them?). If anyone is acting intimidating I would say it's you.
(Fixed a bit of punctuation there for you)
Shows how important it is to quote the right guy. I'm sure No_remainders would have been less confused if he had been quoted instead of me.
There seems to be a lot of emphasis on the matchmaking part. The other factor is that removing dedicated servers removes the possibility of mods.
I'm concerned about this because when I was into COD4 I played almost exclusively the 'Search and Destroy' game mode on Hardcore. That's the mode like Counter-strike where there are rounds with no respawning. This mode was broken in the orginal because of people being able to grenade and Grenade launch into the spawn early in the game on some maps.
Mods were created to kick players who Naded/Tubed early and I played exclusively on those servers.
I want to play this game but now I probably won't purchase at launch for full price because of this announcement.
IW just made it clear they don't understand their PC audience and they're catering to a group that doesn't exist hoping to boost sales.
Time will tell but I don't think it'll work.
Edit: Not to mention mods that kicks for Martyrdom. -_-
I'm concerned about this because when I was into COD4 I played almost exclusively the 'Search and Destroy' game mode on Hardcore. That's the mode like Counter-strike where there are rounds with no respawning. This mode was broken in the orginal because of people being able to grenade and Grenade launch into the spawn early in the game on some maps.
Mods were created to kick players who Naded/Tubed early and I played exclusively on those servers.
I want to play this game but now I probably won't purchase at launch for full price because of this announcement.
IW just made it clear they don't understand their PC audience and they're catering to a group that doesn't exist hoping to boost sales.
Time will tell but I don't think it'll work.
Edit: Not to mention mods that kicks for Martyrdom. -_-
Well, I WAS going to buy this game. Without dedicated servers, there's no point in FPS games for me.
Let me tell you why.
I play FPS games for the community and for competition. Random opponents are no competition for me, I want my opposition to be organized and deadly. Putting a couple dozen random people on a team and having them improvise tactics while half of them are deaf mutes (they don't talk or acknowledge anyone talking to them) does not result in advanced teamwork.
I am part of a clan called Hell's Elite Legion, or [HEL]. In "Battlefield 2142" we were #1 on both TWL and TGL ladders. We like to compete. Without private servers, we cannot arrange our own tournaments, and we cannot run our own server, that we paid for ourselves. Having our own servers was a huge deal for us. We had one for general play, and we had one for tournament practice. We would all get together on our practice server a couple days a week and work on general tactics, team cohesion, the best ways to run whatever map we were scheduled on next, and strategies to beat whatever team we were playing next.
But the real fun was on our general server. We had no rules other than "no aim-bots or wall hacks." We would split the clan in half and have at it for many hours on end. It was a public server, so we had plenty of cannon fodder on both teams as well. But after we got bored destroying each other, we would find and raid other clan servers. Now this was fun. We'd jump on their server and start up a clan war. The opposing clan usually fought valiantly, but we never lost a clan war even once. The honorable clans loved the competition, and it was very common for them to attempt a raid on our server in the future.
Times were good.
In rare cases, the opposing team's server admins would become butthurt from being knifed too much and having transport helicopters do touch-and-go's off their heads, and they would perma-ban our clan. We never cheated, and we always followed current server rules, so a ban to us was the other team's way of saying "we're afraid of you." And so we started keeping track of how many servers we were banned from as a badge of honor.
This, my friends, is what FPS games are all about to me. Playing with and against the best players in the world, either destroying all who oppose us, or losing and coming back for more.
Without this, CoD:MW2 is not worth my money, and isn't even worth my time if I somehow got a free copy.
Let me tell you why.
I play FPS games for the community and for competition. Random opponents are no competition for me, I want my opposition to be organized and deadly. Putting a couple dozen random people on a team and having them improvise tactics while half of them are deaf mutes (they don't talk or acknowledge anyone talking to them) does not result in advanced teamwork.
I am part of a clan called Hell's Elite Legion, or [HEL]. In "Battlefield 2142" we were #1 on both TWL and TGL ladders. We like to compete. Without private servers, we cannot arrange our own tournaments, and we cannot run our own server, that we paid for ourselves. Having our own servers was a huge deal for us. We had one for general play, and we had one for tournament practice. We would all get together on our practice server a couple days a week and work on general tactics, team cohesion, the best ways to run whatever map we were scheduled on next, and strategies to beat whatever team we were playing next.
But the real fun was on our general server. We had no rules other than "no aim-bots or wall hacks." We would split the clan in half and have at it for many hours on end. It was a public server, so we had plenty of cannon fodder on both teams as well. But after we got bored destroying each other, we would find and raid other clan servers. Now this was fun. We'd jump on their server and start up a clan war. The opposing clan usually fought valiantly, but we never lost a clan war even once. The honorable clans loved the competition, and it was very common for them to attempt a raid on our server in the future.
Times were good.
In rare cases, the opposing team's server admins would become butthurt from being knifed too much and having transport helicopters do touch-and-go's off their heads, and they would perma-ban our clan. We never cheated, and we always followed current server rules, so a ban to us was the other team's way of saying "we're afraid of you." And so we started keeping track of how many servers we were banned from as a badge of honor.
This, my friends, is what FPS games are all about to me. Playing with and against the best players in the world, either destroying all who oppose us, or losing and coming back for more.
Without this, CoD:MW2 is not worth my money, and isn't even worth my time if I somehow got a free copy.
I would be outraged, but I don't really like CoD...
On the other hand, what is this general shift towards consoles? Us PC gamers have rights, too! Rights to LAN, rights to dedicated servers, and by gum we'd better get our PC exclusives!!!
On the other hand, what is this general shift towards consoles? Us PC gamers have rights, too! Rights to LAN, rights to dedicated servers, and by gum we'd better get our PC exclusives!!!
As much as I hat eto say this all of the arguments and igorance happen to be a mute point. IW has pretty much made their decision. Everything can be summed up rather easily...
Console gamers:
Most of you will never truely understand PC gaming; be it due to the money you need to invest in a PC to really enjoy the genre, or the the fact that jumping from the "its done for me" Console level to the "I might have to learn something" PC level. Either way its simply put that if your defending the MM system then you truely dont understand what a dedicated server is or its benifits. Trying to argue that is akin to saying your skate board is faster then my motorcycle becuase it has 4 wheels. Your missing the point and and only showing your inexperiance by trying to tell us otherwise. The 'ease' and simplicity of a MM system was designed for the fact that "most" console gamers are young. So its design is relevent to the market. Almost ALL gamers started off on a console. So when a PC gamers says "I don't want Matchmaking" they are saying it because they have dealt with it before. Not becuase were arrogant, ignorant or "elitist". Experiance comes from doing; not pretending. And in the long run you should be defending the PC gamers. You have just as much a voice as we do; use it. If you are jealous of what PC gamers get then you should be yelling at the Devs, not us. But most of you wouldnt understant that. So just go play last years madden with this years rostes that you paid 60 dollars for and pretend your getting your monies worth.
PC Gamers:
I hate to say this but its a lost cause. We only have One choice left to us. And thats to not by the game. Writing on forums, signing petitions and all of this rhetoric and complaining will achieve nothing if every one still goes out on 11-10 and buys the game. Money will speak louder then words, and even if IW can't hear over the "CHA-CHING" of the console gamers cashing in like the good little lemmings they are; it will send a dramatic message to every other game company that PC gamers won't stand for a company charging us more, for what in the end amounts to a watered down game and a giant step in the wrong direction.
If on the 11th of November, Activision wakes up and see's PC sales are non-existant...who knows, we might even see them break and give us what we want. But if they see the money rolling in: its tad amount to selling the heritage of PC gaming for some shiny beads and a few bits of string. We've already seen Matchmaking rearing its ugly head on the PC platform. If it becomes Finacially viable; it will become the standerd, and then everything we should get for free: everything the Console are too stupid to realize THEY should get for free... we will have to pay for.
...And its not like EA is going to "keep it real" if they see a profit can be made.
Then the "pay to respawn" will appear...... god help us all.
Console gamers:
Most of you will never truely understand PC gaming; be it due to the money you need to invest in a PC to really enjoy the genre, or the the fact that jumping from the "its done for me" Console level to the "I might have to learn something" PC level. Either way its simply put that if your defending the MM system then you truely dont understand what a dedicated server is or its benifits. Trying to argue that is akin to saying your skate board is faster then my motorcycle becuase it has 4 wheels. Your missing the point and and only showing your inexperiance by trying to tell us otherwise. The 'ease' and simplicity of a MM system was designed for the fact that "most" console gamers are young. So its design is relevent to the market. Almost ALL gamers started off on a console. So when a PC gamers says "I don't want Matchmaking" they are saying it because they have dealt with it before. Not becuase were arrogant, ignorant or "elitist". Experiance comes from doing; not pretending. And in the long run you should be defending the PC gamers. You have just as much a voice as we do; use it. If you are jealous of what PC gamers get then you should be yelling at the Devs, not us. But most of you wouldnt understant that. So just go play last years madden with this years rostes that you paid 60 dollars for and pretend your getting your monies worth.
PC Gamers:
I hate to say this but its a lost cause. We only have One choice left to us. And thats to not by the game. Writing on forums, signing petitions and all of this rhetoric and complaining will achieve nothing if every one still goes out on 11-10 and buys the game. Money will speak louder then words, and even if IW can't hear over the "CHA-CHING" of the console gamers cashing in like the good little lemmings they are; it will send a dramatic message to every other game company that PC gamers won't stand for a company charging us more, for what in the end amounts to a watered down game and a giant step in the wrong direction.
If on the 11th of November, Activision wakes up and see's PC sales are non-existant...who knows, we might even see them break and give us what we want. But if they see the money rolling in: its tad amount to selling the heritage of PC gaming for some shiny beads and a few bits of string. We've already seen Matchmaking rearing its ugly head on the PC platform. If it becomes Finacially viable; it will become the standerd, and then everything we should get for free: everything the Console are too stupid to realize THEY should get for free... we will have to pay for.
...And its not like EA is going to "keep it real" if they see a profit can be made.
Then the "pay to respawn" will appear...... god help us all.
The only reason being that no matter what anyone says, the hardcore PC gamers are all elitist cunts who think console players are below them, so you can't really blame console players for not feeling sympathetic towards you not having dedis.teh_gunslinger said:
I wasn't even talking just about joining matches. I was more thinking that they actually think we care that they have slightly better graphics than us, the whole thing about controller VS keyboard/mouse, etc.Rutawitz said:
I'd actually like to make a point before any of you PC elitists decide to start quoting me on the whole controller v keyboard mouse thing. First of all, I hate the ones who say "It's a proven fact blah blah blah I may as well put on a dunce hat and sit in the corner now...", how can you prove that a controller isn't as good as a keyboard and mouse exactly? You can't prove it in any way.
If you say getting the best player with a keyboard and mouse and the best player with a controller and making them play together proves that whoever wins makes that the "better" gaming device, you really should be slapped several times across the back of the head, might knock some sense in to you.
The point is, something can only be proven if it happens 100% of the time. Example: gravity exists constantly on earth, therefore it is proven to exist (bad example, I know, but shut up).
The point being that there will always be people who will beat other people whether they're using a controller or a keyboard & mouse.
Oh, and before anyone is enough of a generalising idiot to say anything about auto-aim, on any FPS I turn it off because it's not useful. Some people like it, frankly, I think it's irritating because I like to be able to turn the entire way around without my crosshairs slowing on every enemy along the way.
close the IE window. take you mouse and put it at the start icon. Then quickly move it to the recycle bin. then open back up the IE window and then immediately minimize it. Now imagine doing it THAT fast with a control stick. If you make it too slow, you'll have control but it goes too slow. If you make it fast, you'll overshoot everything.No_Remainders said:
If it really took 20 minutes to teach "sort by ping/players, hide locked games," then there's a lot more wrong with your friend than lack of experience. Besides the point, if you have to teach functions that have existed on innumerable websites and other applications for years (how to sort a list) AT ALL, then you're dealing with somebody that hasn't even sat in front of a computer for any considerable amount of time and probably shouldn't be jumping straight into games.
If you could do it, why can't everyone else? You weren't the hardcore PC gamer you are today, why do WE have to give up the freedom to choose our own server and the security of always having a place to play with familiar people and a set of rules that we like, so that the new guys don't have to spend the minute it would take to read the words right in front of them? We weren't born hardwired, we figured things out. Why are you trying to perpetuate the mental atrophy of our youth? Freedom > convenience, and if you REALLY have to have that matchmaking system, you can always do what Left 4 Dead did on PC and have BOTH.CantFaketheFunk said:
I don't wanna get involved, but that's what you do with a computer. Not a game.slopeslider said:
You try playing a game like Armored Core or Demon's Souls on a computer. Not everything can be hot keyed.
You have to have a firm grip on something. And pardon me, but I just can't see a keyboard replacing controllers.
If you think I'm wrong for liking a controller, that makes you an elitist. No arguments about it.
Also, I feel i have to say this:
If anyone buys Modern Warfare 2, you have no right to complain whatsoever. You're giving Activision your money despite them taking out a great feature. So it's your fault! You don't like hearing it? Too bad. It's the truth. You pay for this game, you automatically tell Activision you love having no dedicated servers.
If you wanna make a difference, you could boycott the game and play another FPS until they throw in free servers. Goodness knows there's about 3000 of them floating around the market. And there's no difference between them. Nothing but tiny little points that somehow people think makes the whole game.
And in my honest opinion, Modern Warfare 2 is not game of the year after all. I don't know why people want it so much.
The only reasons I see are:
"ooh, they give you night vision" or "zomg, the gloss on my machine gun is 10% more sparkly, best game of the year!1!1!!"
That's the mentality I see. And if you PC fans are really hyped up over that, you shouldn't be talking down to console owners. Pot and kettle.
In fact, (and I know I'm gonna be flamed to the fiery pits of hell and back for saying this), from a distance I see little difference between Modern Warfare and Halo.
Space Marines, US Marines. Flying machines. Realistic machines. Both vastly overrated and getting constant sequels. The fans constantly defending them both. Really, if you skinned those games down to their cores, they'd probably be the same bland FPS that's repainted and sold by hundreds of companies.
So going straight to the point, if you buy this game, you will never have dedicated servers again. So good day.
First of all, elitist isn't an insult. You have to be elite to be elitist, and it's called having standards. If having standards were wrong, we would still be living in caves.No_Remainders said:
Secondly, you're basing your opinion on the people presenting the case, and not the case itself, which invalidates anything you have to say. I think the average console gamer is short-sighted, immature, unreasonable, overzealous, quick to judge on faulty pretenses, willfully ignorant, violently loyal without just cause, and cannot survive off the bandwagon. That doesn't mean any point a console user makes is invalid, just the fallacious ones. Just like some black sheep among PC users fallaciously defend their platform with reasoning like superior graphics or more expensive equals better.
Some console users actually have good reasons to have a console. I have a Wii, PS3, DS, and PSP myself, along with nearly every successful console all the way back to the Atari 2600, and they have their advantages, but I still think the PC is superior, partly because of that "elitist" mentality. PC gamers put quality before convenience. They don't take crap, and that includes crappy elements in their community. Of course PC elitists don't respect you, it's because this is how you react. Your reaction to being disrespected is why you continue to be disrespected. If you can't understand why that is, then we don't want you playing with us, and I for one am very happy that the servers I play on have the right to ban people we feel brings down our experience. Matchmaking doesn't allow that sort of selectiveness, so I don't see myself playing any game that uses it exclusively for any significant amount of time.
Look at your analog sticks. Look below the joystick part, at the hole in the controller that it's sitting in. You see how it's surrounded by a circle of hard plastic? There's your proof.No_Remainders said:
Done.