Obesity Discrimination

[Bertylicious]

Better yet, ditch healthcare systems all together. I really, really don't understand why we have them. You give the greedy assholes more money than you will ever use on healthcare, then some of it is used to help strangers who may or may not have caused their own problems. If people want to be in that sort of a system, let them. But in my country everyone pays for basic healthcare through taxes. That's bullshit.

Example: I attempted suicide and ended up in hospital for a month or so. Why should anyone else have to pay for my treatment? I made that choice. Same with smokers; someone smokes, knowing it'll fuck them, gets sick and then has everyone pay for their care.

At the risk of being called an Obama-loving, hippy, fuck, don't you think that societies should look after people? I mean, what if you've got a person who has worked in a physical job and develops a musculoskeletal condition and needs treatment? Should they just be thrown on the scrap-heap or should their only recourse be legal action against all the employers they've ever had?

I mean to say; if you don't have a society that has looking after people as a kind of categorical imperative, won't you just have a bitter land of recrimination that benefits nobody apart from lawyers?

OT: Discriminating against fat people is fine because they're fat. Like, you wouldn't let a massive, 40 stone, man onto a plane because he weighs 40 stone. It's not like you're not letting a person on to a plane because he's of low caste and might dishonour the other passengers.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Better yet, ditch healthcare systems all together. I really, really don't understand why we have them. You give the greedy assholes more money than you will ever use on healthcare, then some of it is used to help strangers who may or may not have caused their own problems. If people want to be in that sort of a system, let them. But in my country everyone pays for basic healthcare through taxes. That's bullshit.

Example: I attempted suicide and ended up in hospital for a month or so. Why should anyone else have to pay for my treatment? I made that choice. Same with smokers; someone smokes, knowing it'll fuck them, gets sick and then has everyone pay for their care.

At the risk of being called an Obama-loving, hippy, fuck, don't you think that societies should look after people? I mean, what if you've got a person who has worked in a physical job and develops a musculoskeletal condition and needs treatment? Should they just be thrown on the scrap-heap or should their only recourse be legal action against all the employers they've ever had?

I mean to say; if you don't have a society that has looking after people as a kind of categorical imperative, won't you just have a bitter land of recrimination that benefits nobody apart from lawyers?

OT: Discriminating against fat people is fine because they're fat. Like, you wouldn't let a massive, 40 stone, man onto a plane because he weighs 40 stone. It's not like you're not letting a person on to a plane because he's of low caste and might dishonour the other passengers.

Because you are forced to pay for charity. If you want to, then fine. Awesome. Go ahead. But to force everyone to pay for other people's issues is absurd. I don't want to pay for Joe Blog to have heart surgery because they ate themselves into a heart attack, or for Jane Smith to have a transplanted organ 'cause she ruined the last one on drugs and alcohol, or for Random Person #3 to get treated for cancer after smoking a pack a day for thirty years.

Forcing people to pay for other people's medical care is absurd. It'd be no different than if the government came out tomorrow and said they are increasing taxes to make everyone pay the bills for the poor.

Opt in and opt out healthcare? Great. Forcing hardworking people who never need healthcare to pay for some unhealthy bastard's hospital trip? Inane.

 

[Bertylicious]

Because you are forced to pay for charity. If you want to, then fine. Awesome. Go ahead. But to force everyone to pay for other people's issues is absurd. I don't want to pay for Joe Blog to have heart surgery because they ate themselves into a heart attack, or for Jane Smith to have a transplanted organ 'cause she ruined the last one on drugs and alcohol, or for Random Person #3 to get treated for cancer after smoking a pack a day for thirty years.

Forcing people to pay for other people's medical care is absurd. It'd be no different than if the government came out tomorrow and said they are increasing taxes to make everyone pay the bills for the poor.

Opt in and opt out healthcare? Great. Forcing hardworking people who never need healthcare to pay for some unhealthy bastard's hospital trip? Inane.

Actually I'm quite happy about stopping poor people from living in grinding poverty. Still, I respect your position although I do believe it carries the drawback of making healthcare something only the wealthy elite can have. I think we may have fundamentally different views on what society is for, which might be a good laugh to explore.

So, bringing us back to the original topic, you reckon fat people should be denied health-care, along with smokers and sad people?

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Because you are forced to pay for charity. If you want to, then fine. Awesome. Go ahead. But to force everyone to pay for other people's issues is absurd. I don't want to pay for Joe Blog to have heart surgery because they ate themselves into a heart attack, or for Jane Smith to have a transplanted organ 'cause she ruined the last one on drugs and alcohol, or for Random Person #3 to get treated for cancer after smoking a pack a day for thirty years.

Forcing people to pay for other people's medical care is absurd. It'd be no different than if the government came out tomorrow and said they are increasing taxes to make everyone pay the bills for the poor.

Opt in and opt out healthcare? Great. Forcing hardworking people who never need healthcare to pay for some unhealthy bastard's hospital trip? Inane.

Actually I'm quite happy about stopping poor people from living in grinding poverty. Still, I respect your position although I do believe it carries the drawback of making healthcare something only the wealthy elite can have. I think we may have fundamentally different views on what society is for, which might be a good laugh to explore.

So, bringing us back to the original topic, you reckon fat people should be denied health-care, along with smokers and sad people?

Denied? No. I think healthcare system should be opt in and out. If you want to pay the bills/tax, you and everyone else on the system can use the healthcare when you need it. If you don't want to pay the bills/tax, you can't use the system when you need it and must pay in full (as in 99% of cases, healthcare just pays for some of the bill, not all of it, anyay).

 

[Bertylicious]

Because you are forced to pay for charity. If you want to, then fine. Awesome. Go ahead. But to force everyone to pay for other people's issues is absurd. I don't want to pay for Joe Blog to have heart surgery because they ate themselves into a heart attack, or for Jane Smith to have a transplanted organ 'cause she ruined the last one on drugs and alcohol, or for Random Person #3 to get treated for cancer after smoking a pack a day for thirty years.

Forcing people to pay for other people's medical care is absurd. It'd be no different than if the government came out tomorrow and said they are increasing taxes to make everyone pay the bills for the poor.

Opt in and opt out healthcare? Great. Forcing hardworking people who never need healthcare to pay for some unhealthy bastard's hospital trip? Inane.

Actually I'm quite happy about stopping poor people from living in grinding poverty. Still, I respect your position although I do believe it carries the drawback of making healthcare something only the wealthy elite can have. I think we may have fundamentally different views on what society is for, which might be a good laugh to explore.

So, bringing us back to the original topic, you reckon fat people should be denied health-care, along with smokers and sad people?

Denied? No. I think healthcare system should be opt in and out. If you want to pay the bills/tax, you and everyone else on the system can use the healthcare when you need it. If you don't want to pay the bills/tax, you can't use the system when you need it and must pay in full (as in 99% of cases, healthcare just pays for some of the bill, not all of it, anyay).

Should fat people pay more? Also, what happens to poor people who haven't opted in when they get ill? Will the state lay on the cost of a sedative for them as they climb into a pit with all the other opt outs to be filled in with dirt or will it just be two stout lads with iron bars?

Maybe we should do the same with education? I mean, I don't plan on having any kids so maybe I shouldn't have to subsidise breeders?

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Because you are forced to pay for charity. If you want to, then fine. Awesome. Go ahead. But to force everyone to pay for other people's issues is absurd. I don't want to pay for Joe Blog to have heart surgery because they ate themselves into a heart attack, or for Jane Smith to have a transplanted organ 'cause she ruined the last one on drugs and alcohol, or for Random Person #3 to get treated for cancer after smoking a pack a day for thirty years.

Forcing people to pay for other people's medical care is absurd. It'd be no different than if the government came out tomorrow and said they are increasing taxes to make everyone pay the bills for the poor.

Opt in and opt out healthcare? Great. Forcing hardworking people who never need healthcare to pay for some unhealthy bastard's hospital trip? Inane.

Actually I'm quite happy about stopping poor people from living in grinding poverty. Still, I respect your position although I do believe it carries the drawback of making healthcare something only the wealthy elite can have. I think we may have fundamentally different views on what society is for, which might be a good laugh to explore.

So, bringing us back to the original topic, you reckon fat people should be denied health-care, along with smokers and sad people?

Denied? No. I think healthcare system should be opt in and out. If you want to pay the bills/tax, you and everyone else on the system can use the healthcare when you need it. If you don't want to pay the bills/tax, you can't use the system when you need it and must pay in full (as in 99% of cases, healthcare just pays for some of the bill, not all of it, anyay).

Should fat people pay more? Also, what happens to poor people who haven't opted in when they get ill? Will the state lay on the cost of a sedative for them as they climb into a pit with all the other opt outs to be filled in with dirt or will it just be two stout lads with iron bars?

Maybe we should do the same with education? I mean, I don't plan on having any kids so maybe I shouldn't have to subsidise breeders?

In most countries your health does dictate how much you pay for the service, with the older and less healthy you are, the more you pay in premiums. So yeah, this is already in affect. It's just a shame some countries (the one I live in, for one) force compulsory health tax. I'm fairly certain the majority (if not the vast majority) of countries do not use this form of unavoidable healthcare.

I don't know about education. It's a different issue and I'd have to look into it before commenting.

 

[MetalMagpie]

I don't have a problem with people carrying a bit of extra weight. I have a problem with people who think that being fat is a disability that they should get special benefits for.

Be fat if you like. I really couldn't care less. But stop demanding that the government pay for your gym membership. If I have to pay rip-off rates to take my un-special body to the gym, then I don't see why someone else should get it for free just because they weigh more than I do.

Note: Having a diagnosed medical problem that causes excessive weight gain is a disability. Just being fat is not.

I actually agree with this. (People seriously do that?)

Yep. The NHS (National Health Service) in the UK has an on-and-off scheme to buy gym membership for obese people in order to help them to lose weight. The argument has been that some people are "too poor" to be able to lose weight, as they can't pay for healthy food or expensive gym membership.

Not only is this a colossal waste of money, it has led to (admittedly, a small minority) seeing the free gym membership as one of their human rights, and becoming outraged when the scheme is withdrawn from their area due to budget cuts.

I had to go for a very long walk to cool down after watching a woman on the news protesting that she was being "discriminated against" because (in her words), "If I had any other type of disability, the NHS would have to help me. But because I'm fat, they can cut off my support any time they like!"

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I don't have a problem with people carrying a bit of extra weight. I have a problem with people who think that being fat is a disability that they should get special benefits for.

Be fat if you like. I really couldn't care less. But stop demanding that the government pay for your gym membership. If I have to pay rip-off rates to take my un-special body to the gym, then I don't see why someone else should get it for free just because they weigh more than I do.

Note: Having a diagnosed medical problem that causes excessive weight gain is a disability. Just being fat is not.

I actually agree with this. (People seriously do that?)

Yep. The NHS (National Health Service) in the UK has an on-and-off scheme to buy gym membership for obese people in order to help them to lose weight. The argument has been that some people are "too poor" to be able to lose weight, as they can't pay for healthy food or expensive gym membership.

Not only is this a colossal waste of money, it has led to (admittedly, a small minority) seeing the free gym membership is one of their human rights, and becoming outraged when the scheme is withdrawn from their area due to budget cuts.

I had to go for a very long walk to cool down after watching a woman on the news protesting that she was being "discriminated against" because (in her words), "If I had any other type of disability, the NHS would have to help me. But because I'm fat, they can cut off my support any time they like!"

Same deal with education; everyone has to pay for higher education, right? Wrong. Break the law, get sent to prison and they'll pay for it for you. Hell, if you want, they'll give you special tutors that teach you one-on-one. Poor? No degree. Criminal? Free bachelor of arts, lol.

 

[Mau95]

I dislike the idea of being fat and how accepted it is compared to smoking or drinking but it's nothing against fat people personally.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I dislike the idea of being fat and how accepted it is compared to smoking or drinking but it's nothing against fat people personally.

Doesn't obesity kill more people than smoking? Pretty sure it does.

Weird in that case how smoking is so reviled but being overweight is seen as normal.

Not that I give a shit what you wanna do with your life, lol.

 

[Mau95]

I dislike the idea of being fat and how accepted it is compared to smoking or drinking but it's nothing against fat people personally.

Doesn't obesity kill more people than smoking? Pretty sure it does.

Weird in that case how smoking is so reviled but being overweight is seen as normal.

Not that I give a shit what you wanna do with your life, lol.

I was just reading your Diablo 3 piracy thread. Glad that you don't care about what I do with my life though.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I dislike the idea of being fat and how accepted it is compared to smoking or drinking but it's nothing against fat people personally.

Doesn't obesity kill more people than smoking? Pretty sure it does.

Weird in that case how smoking is so reviled but being overweight is seen as normal.

Not that I give a shit what you wanna do with your life, lol.

I was just reading your Diablo 3 piracy thread. Glad that you don't care about what I do with my life though.

Oh, that wasn't aimed at you. I mean I don't care if people want to be fat or to smoke or to take drugs. Not my life and not my body.

Or maybe you got that and I'm missing something... That could also be it.

 

[Bertylicious]

Because you are forced to pay for charity. If you want to, then fine. Awesome. Go ahead. But to force everyone to pay for other people's issues is absurd. I don't want to pay for Joe Blog to have heart surgery because they ate themselves into a heart attack, or for Jane Smith to have a transplanted organ 'cause she ruined the last one on drugs and alcohol, or for Random Person #3 to get treated for cancer after smoking a pack a day for thirty years.

Forcing people to pay for other people's medical care is absurd. It'd be no different than if the government came out tomorrow and said they are increasing taxes to make everyone pay the bills for the poor.

Opt in and opt out healthcare? Great. Forcing hardworking people who never need healthcare to pay for some unhealthy bastard's hospital trip? Inane.

Actually I'm quite happy about stopping poor people from living in grinding poverty. Still, I respect your position although I do believe it carries the drawback of making healthcare something only the wealthy elite can have. I think we may have fundamentally different views on what society is for, which might be a good laugh to explore.

So, bringing us back to the original topic, you reckon fat people should be denied health-care, along with smokers and sad people?

Denied? No. I think healthcare system should be opt in and out. If you want to pay the bills/tax, you and everyone else on the system can use the healthcare when you need it. If you don't want to pay the bills/tax, you can't use the system when you need it and must pay in full (as in 99% of cases, healthcare just pays for some of the bill, not all of it, anyay).

Should fat people pay more? Also, what happens to poor people who haven't opted in when they get ill? Will the state lay on the cost of a sedative for them as they climb into a pit with all the other opt outs to be filled in with dirt or will it just be two stout lads with iron bars?

Maybe we should do the same with education? I mean, I don't plan on having any kids so maybe I shouldn't have to subsidise breeders?

In most countries your health does dictate how much you pay for the service, with the older and less healthy you are, the more you pay in premiums. So yeah, this is already in affect. It's just a shame some countries (the one I live in, for one) force compulsory health tax. I'm fairly certain the majority (if not the vast majority) of countries do not use this form of unavoidable healthcare.

I don't know about education. It's a different issue and I'd have to look into it before commenting.

Okay, solid.

One problem thoughl; isn't the fact that Greece have a kind of unofficial 'opt out' for taxes kind of why they're in a world of shit? I mean, they spend like they don't have an opt out, what with it being unofficial and all so... hmmm... okay that kind of buggers that as an argument. Wait, no it doesn't! Right, so, you've got people opting out of health care spending left, right, and centre so that means you can't really provide any social healthcare because it's expensive. Therefore it has to be privately financed, which means medical insurance, which is what you'd have in order to 'opt in'.

So that means you've got vast swathes of the population with no access to healthcare unless the insurance is mandatory, in which case you might as well have tax funded healthcare.

 

[Sandytimeman]

I'm 5' 5" and 240 lbs. I have a size 44 waist. I am not happy with my weight. I work two minimum wage jobs and they both require me to sit all day. On top of that I have energy problems staying awake while sitting for so long.

I pound caffeine all day long and that only adds to my weight problems. I've also thrown out my lower back due to lack of abdominal muscle strength.


I've ordered a treadmill and a punching bag both of which will be installed at the first of the month. I plan on getting back to 130-140 lbs area. I don't really consider being fat something that's worth me trying to push civil rights movement. If your fat its usually a lifestyle choice (as mine is) and you always have the ability to change your habits and lose the weight.

 

[Mau95]

I dislike the idea of being fat and how accepted it is compared to smoking or drinking but it's nothing against fat people personally.

Doesn't obesity kill more people than smoking? Pretty sure it does.

Weird in that case how smoking is so reviled but being overweight is seen as normal.

Not that I give a shit what you wanna do with your life, lol.

I was just reading your Diablo 3 piracy thread. Glad that you don't care about what I do with my life though.

Oh, that wasn't aimed at you. I mean I don't care if people want to be fat or to smoke or to take drugs. Not my life and not my body.

Or maybe you got that and I'm missing something... That could also be it.

Very well, then I shall stop giving a damn.

 

[Mikkaddo]

Save the whales, harpoon a fat chick

[sub]Can't remember where I heard that line but it's freakin' terrible [/sub]

Being fat is associated with greed and/or a lack of self control/discipline.

It's understandable that people would want to paint those personality traits in a negative light, but at the same time, fat jokes stopped being funny a long time ago.

I've never hated on someone because they were fat, but at the same time, I never tiptoed around the issue either.

Besides, there's a difference between being a bit chubby, and being obese.

if you ask anyone in governmental positions no there's not. I'm about 5 foot 7, and close to 256 pounds, healthy as shit and can easily lift more than my body weight, BUT according to the government. I'm dangerously overweight! because OH NO I'm over 200pounds

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Because you are forced to pay for charity. If you want to, then fine. Awesome. Go ahead. But to force everyone to pay for other people's issues is absurd. I don't want to pay for Joe Blog to have heart surgery because they ate themselves into a heart attack, or for Jane Smith to have a transplanted organ 'cause she ruined the last one on drugs and alcohol, or for Random Person #3 to get treated for cancer after smoking a pack a day for thirty years.

Forcing people to pay for other people's medical care is absurd. It'd be no different than if the government came out tomorrow and said they are increasing taxes to make everyone pay the bills for the poor.

Opt in and opt out healthcare? Great. Forcing hardworking people who never need healthcare to pay for some unhealthy bastard's hospital trip? Inane.

Actually I'm quite happy about stopping poor people from living in grinding poverty. Still, I respect your position although I do believe it carries the drawback of making healthcare something only the wealthy elite can have. I think we may have fundamentally different views on what society is for, which might be a good laugh to explore.

So, bringing us back to the original topic, you reckon fat people should be denied health-care, along with smokers and sad people?

Denied? No. I think healthcare system should be opt in and out. If you want to pay the bills/tax, you and everyone else on the system can use the healthcare when you need it. If you don't want to pay the bills/tax, you can't use the system when you need it and must pay in full (as in 99% of cases, healthcare just pays for some of the bill, not all of it, anyay).

Should fat people pay more? Also, what happens to poor people who haven't opted in when they get ill? Will the state lay on the cost of a sedative for them as they climb into a pit with all the other opt outs to be filled in with dirt or will it just be two stout lads with iron bars?

Maybe we should do the same with education? I mean, I don't plan on having any kids so maybe I shouldn't have to subsidise breeders?

In most countries your health does dictate how much you pay for the service, with the older and less healthy you are, the more you pay in premiums. So yeah, this is already in affect. It's just a shame some countries (the one I live in, for one) force compulsory health tax. I'm fairly certain the majority (if not the vast majority) of countries do not use this form of unavoidable healthcare.

I don't know about education. It's a different issue and I'd have to look into it before commenting.

Okay, solid.

One problem thoughl; isn't the fact that Greece have a kind of unofficial 'opt out' for taxes kind of why they're in a world of shit? I mean, they spend like they don't have an opt out, what with it being unofficial and all so... hmmm... okay that kind of buggers that as an argument. Wait, no it doesn't! Right, so, you've got people opting out of health care spending left, right, and centre so that means you can't really provide any social healthcare because it's expensive. Therefore it has to be privately financed, which means medical insurance, which is what you'd have in order to 'opt in'.

So that means you've got vast swathes of the population with no access to healthcare unless the insurance is mandatory, in which case you might as well have tax funded healthcare.

I don't think you understand where I'm coming from. Let me explain: I don't want to pay for other people's problems. They can't pay for medical attention? Sucks to be them. Not my problem. So the scenario you're describing isn't against my argument--though, it's not for it, either.

I don't want to pay for some random guy in my state to get his shit kidney switched out for the same reason I don't want to pay African taxes--it's just not my problem. If you really care about all these people and stuff, awesome. I hope you give to charity and go overseas to help feed and shelter the 2billion or so people living in poverty. Me? I'm selfish and only care about my friends, their families and my family.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Well when I see an obese person I make 2 distinctions. They are dumb and probably don't care about themselves, since obesity is avoidable. I will still talk to them and interact with them, but I will never find them attractive, or assume they deserve my full respect, since I don't feel they respect themselves.

Since one does weight determine intelligence? Just because you don't want to slim doesn't mean you can't be smart, yo.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think my biggest problem with this is how judgemental it is.

You have absolutely no idea why someone is unfit or overweight. It would be like hating someone because they have burn scars.

Yes some people are just greedy but others might have mental difficulties or physical problems.
How can you go around judging people when you don't know anything about them.