Obesity Discrimination

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I think my biggest problem with this is how judgemental it is.

You have absolutely no idea why someone is unfit or overweight. It would be like hating someone because they have burn scars.

Yes some people are just greedy but others might have mental difficulties or physical problems.
How can you go around judging people when you don't know anything about them.

Humans like to do that. Be it witches, other religions, teh gayz, or just black people in general.

Yeah... We are pretty good at being huge pricks to one another. Blame evolution and our hardwired urge to dislike and distrust anything different out of fear.

Also: who hates people because they have burn scars? Or was that just hypothetical? NEVERMIND. I do actually have about a dozen 30cm+ scars on my back. I actually let that ruin my first proper relationship. See, this girl I was serious with (enough to be arranging moving in together) was continually hinting, in lesser and lesser degrees of subtly that she wanted to have sex. She eventually just walked up to me and gave me some condoms, lol. Anyway, I never could find the courage to sleep with her due to the scars (no one knows about them, really) and it saw the demise of our relationship.

/random, totally unrelated rant for no apparent reason

 

[MetalMagpie]

Besides, there's a difference between being a bit chubby, and being obese.

if you ask anyone in governmental positions no there's not. I'm about 5 foot 7, and close to 256 pounds, healthy as shit and can easily lift more than my body weight, BUT according to the government. I'm dangerously overweight! because OH NO I'm over 200pounds

I think some people just find it quite difficult to get their head around the idea that there is such a huge variety in body shapes. They want everyone to match a template.

I'll confess that (without being able to see you) those numbers sound scary to me simply because you're the same height as me, but weigh over double what I do. But that's my problem not yours. I just have to remember that I'm a slender (and depressingly curve-less) individual. If you're healthy and happy, then it's the right shape for you and the government can f**k right off.

 

[Bertylicious]

I don't think you understand where I'm coming from. Let me explain: I don't want to pay for other people's problems. They can't pay for medical attention? Sucks to be them. Not my problem. So the scenario you're describing isn't against my argument--though, it's not for it, either.

I don't want to pay for some random guy in my state to get his shit kidney switched out for the same reason I don't want to pay African taxes--it's just not my problem. If you really care about all these people and stuff, awesome. I hope you give to charity and go overseas to help feed and shelter the 2billion or so people living in poverty. Me? I'm selfish and only care about my friends, their families and my family.

Indeed I did not! Glad we got that sorted. It is refreshing to see a sincere position for a change.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I don't think you understand where I'm coming from. Let me explain: I don't want to pay for other people's problems. They can't pay for medical attention? Sucks to be them. Not my problem. So the scenario you're describing isn't against my argument--though, it's not for it, either.

I don't want to pay for some random guy in my state to get his shit kidney switched out for the same reason I don't want to pay African taxes--it's just not my problem. If you really care about all these people and stuff, awesome. I hope you give to charity and go overseas to help feed and shelter the 2billion or so people living in poverty. Me? I'm selfish and only care about my friends, their families and my family.

Indeed I did not! Glad we got that sorted. It is refreshing to see a sincere position for a change.

The internet makes this shit hard, lol. All you have to go by is text and it's almost impossible to fully grasp context when the simple act of reading the message means you receive the information from your own perspective.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Besides, there's a difference between being a bit chubby, and being obese.

if you ask anyone in governmental positions no there's not. I'm about 5 foot 7, and close to 256 pounds, healthy as shit and can easily lift more than my body weight, BUT according to the government. I'm dangerously overweight! because OH NO I'm over 200pounds

I think some people just find it quite difficult to get their head around the idea that there is such a huge variety in body shapes. They want everyone to match a template.

I'll confess that (without being able to see you) those numbers sound scary to me simply because you're the same height as me, but weigh over double what I do. But that's my problem not yours. I just have to remember that I'm a slender (and depressingly curve-less) individual. If you're healthy and happy, then it's the right shape for you and the government can f**k right off.

Why is that depressing? Some people happen to find no curves quite cute and pretty. I think it's very selfish of you to not consider our feelings when discussing your body-type.

 

[Mikkaddo]

Besides, there's a difference between being a bit chubby, and being obese.

if you ask anyone in governmental positions no there's not. I'm about 5 foot 7, and close to 256 pounds, healthy as shit and can easily lift more than my body weight, BUT according to the government. I'm dangerously overweight! because OH NO I'm over 200pounds

I think some people just find it quite difficult to get their head around the idea that there is such a huge variety in body shapes. They want everyone to match a template.

I'll confess that (without being able to see you) those numbers sound scary to me simply because you're the same height as me, but weigh over double what I do. But that's my problem not yours. I just have to remember that I'm a slender (and depressingly curve-less) individual. If you're healthy and happy, then it's the right shape for you and the government can f**k right off.

Well, you see I carry most of it in legs and arms, the only part of me that's "swollen" looking is my stomach and that's not much bigger than what's considered normal. Hell most of my friends claim I'm not actually fat, even though my belly jiggles like santa when I laugh >.>

Basically, I'm not huge, hell I wear a 42 pants and XL shirts, which is damn near normal for most anyone over 5 foot 5 XD

 

[Spineyguy]

Again it's about having the willpower. Most people choose to lose weight based on some absurd aesthetic ideal or because they think that a few extra months of ill health and agony at the end of their life is worth it, then they remember that they like cake and suffer a relapse. It takes a lot of hard work and discipline to lose weight and maintaining that level of concentration is even harder.

Yes, it's easy (and, in the current environment, even tempting) to accuse failed dieters of lacking "willpower" and being overly fond of cake.

But that ignores the fact that the whole system is flawed. Again, even modern medicine knows it's flawed. But there's some big bucks to be had in keeping the population in a constant state of body dysphoria; tacking a trumped-up health scare onto it just makes it easier.

When all is said and done, it's simply not worth the effort in my mind. I, however, am tremendously lucky that I am not naturally prone to gaining weight.

I can tell. While you did accuse failed dieters of being weak-willed, you weren't rabid about it.

Failed dieters, by definition, fail at dieting. And the basis of dieting is in taking care to eat things that are good for you rather than things that are not. Failed dieters, therefore, do indeed lack willpower. But willpower is a relative thing; a reforming drug addict needs more willpower to kick the habit of a lifetime than I do to get off my lazy backside and do some work. A dieter, in turn, needs even more willpower because they have to strike a balance and maintain it.

A lack of willpower is nothing unusual in human beings. I lack the willpower to study hard and get good marks, but I don't feel guilty about it because I know that willpower is just as much a part of what we call 'capability' as anything genetic. The frustration that failed dieters feel is not entirely an 'Oh cruel world, why won't you let me lose weight?!' thing, there is an element of self-criticism in there because they know that it is they who ultimately made the choice to have cake instead of fruit

With food there is an added level of difficulty. A reforming drug addict does not ineed drugs to survive, I do not need to piss about on internet forums instead of writing essays, but everyone needs food, so a dieter cannot possibly go 'cold turkey' (unless such bland things are part of the regime) without damaging their health, even more so than eating too much did.

So the kind of willpower that a failed dieter lacks is not the same as the kind of willpower that a lazy person lacks, it's much harder to come by and sustain.

 

[MetalMagpie]

I just have to remember that I'm a slender (and depressingly curve-less) individual. If you're healthy and happy, then it's the right shape for you and the government can f**k right off.

Why is that depressing? Some people happen to find no curves quite cute and pretty. I think it's very selfish of you to not consider our feelings when discussing your body-type.

*laughs* Sorry, I was speaking purely for myself there. My boyfriend clearly has no problem with my body shape. I just have the occasional moment of looking at some of my friends (the ones with proper hour-glass figures) and wishing I had a little more flesh in the relevant areas.

In true grass-is-always-greener fashion, one of those friends is currently trying to lose weight, and claims to be madly jealous that I can scoff down Thai food and still fit my arse into (UK) size 8 jeans. She is utterly gorgeous (F cups and a big round bum, with a tiny waist in between), so I do wonder whether the whole slimming-to-fit-a-dress thing may just be to challenge herself. Who knows.

Thinking about it, what we really need is some sort of "exchangeable-bodies-for-different-occasions" technology. So I can have a pair of massive boobs (plus matching hips) for going on a night out, but change back to my normal body for playing sport (and squeezing on to commuter trains in the morning).

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I just have to remember that I'm a slender (and depressingly curve-less) individual. If you're healthy and happy, then it's the right shape for you and the government can f**k right off.

Why is that depressing? Some people happen to find no curves quite cute and pretty. I think it's very selfish of you to not consider our feelings when discussing your body-type.

*laughs* Sorry, I was speaking purely for myself there. My boyfriend clearly has no problem with my body shape. I just have the occasional moment of looking at some of my friends (the ones with proper hour-glass figures) and wishing I had a little more flesh in the relevant areas.

In true grass-is-always-greener fashion, one of those friends is currently trying to lose weight, and claims to be madly jealous that I can scoff down Thai food and still fit my arse into (UK) size 8 jeans. She is utterly gorgeous (F cups and a big round bum, with a tiny waist in between), so I do wonder whether the whole slimming-to-fit-a-dress thing may just be to challenge herself. Who knows.

Thinking about it, what we really need is some sort of "exchangeable-bodies-for-different-occasions" technology. So I can have a pair of massive boobs (plus matching hips) for going on a night out, but change back to my normal body for playing sport (and squeezing on to commuter trains in the morning).

Oh the wonders of the future. Cures for cancers and AIDS. World hunger solved. Teleportation and light-speed travel. But most importantly... magic booby machines!

I actually prefer A's or small B's on my female partners (I'm not too fond of breasts on my boyfriends) it's so cute and sex :33

 

[Kinokohatake]

Well I'm chubby. And I discriminate against super skinny people and muscular people. So it's okay.

 

[A_Play_On_Words]

Do you think that people, or the country in general, discriminate against those who are "obese"?

Yes. But as it has been pointed out, we discriminate against anything we see as different from us or the same as us (if we are ashamed of it). Is it fair to single out the obese? No. we can't know why they are; it could be a metabolism issue, or an unhealthy knee-jerk physical reaction to psychological stimuli that causes it. Perhaps, for some, it could even be old habits, very hard to shake. It is unlikely, though possible, that it could be just that they are lazy and gluttonous, but it is a gross oversimplification to assume everyone who is obese is.
If what I said sounds like something already stated, then it is.

 

[twohundredpercent]

lol who gives a shit.

All's I know is dudes who were fat but lost a lot of weight and aren't fat anymore tend to be annoying douchebags. The get all smug and shit. Which makes it way funnier when they regain the weight.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Anyone who deviates from the social or physical norm in any country is fair game for discrimination. It's sad, but true. If you want to feel better, though, consider that Quatar is about to outclass the US as the fattest country in existence, with a 40% obesity rate.

The reason why? It's one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and there's a cultural tradition of servitude (not slavery, actually paid waiting staff).

Discrimination sucks, obviously, but obesity is usually one of the few instances where the afflicted can choose to do something about it. I'll be the first to support a chunky guy on his new and genuine journey towards weight loss, but if he just sits there and complains that people have no consideration, I'll just hang my head in shame.

Plus, I'm all for self-love and general positive attitudes prior to going on a serious diet or getting surgery, but stuff like fat admirer movements really creep me out. Seeing as it's largely non-pornographic, you can find a ton of "gainer" videos on YouTube. The problem, society's developed a subculture where huge rolls of fat on a mature man are now considered as sexually attractive elements. Between being aware of the problem and more or less twisting it into an object of desire; there's a whole spectrum of general thought and overall attraction I'm seriously not willing to explore.

 

[Platypus540]

I think that some degree of 'weight discrimination' is needed, especially for certain jobs. For example, all police officers should definitely have to meet certain physical fitness standards or risk demotion or some other professional consequence.

Being overweight really shouldn't be considered a medical condition. It's your own damn fault if you weigh 300-some-odd pounds, not a disease.

Yes, I do recognize that some people have actual medical issues (thyroid problems, etc.) that make them overweight, but these are not exactly common problems.

 

[renegade7]

How exactly are they being discriminated against?

 

[JasonKaotic]

Wow. I never knew there were so many shallow people on the forum. I've seen several people genuinely trying to justify bullying against fat people and so far I've only seen people agree with them. I'm going to argue against the main points being shouted out because this has genuinely made me angry.

"It's their own fault they're fat!"
So fucking what? If they want to eat a lot, let them. If they don't want to exercise, don't make them. How they live is their decision, and you have no right to judge them for it. I can relate. I'm not exactly fat, but I'm in a similar situation: I hate doing sports. I find it boring and I don't have the energy to do it, and people criticize me endlessly for it, and like the guy ToastiestZombie moaned about near the start of the thread, I tell them to fuck off, because I don't want to do something I don't like doing just to please them and they can't make me. And need I mention, you especially don't have the right to make people feel shit about themselves for being overweight.

"Being fat is hazardous to their health!"
Again, that's their choice. If they don't care, why do you? There's two ways to live if you aren't interested in active things: Force yourself to keep fit and eat healthily anyway, prolonging your life but arguably wasting it away by spending it doing things you don't want to do, or carry on with your normal lifestyle, which will make you die earlier, possibly give you health problems, but at least you're doing what you enjoy with your life.

"They're just as bad to skinny people as skinny people are to them!"
I want you to do something for me. Imagine a pencil-skinny person, then imagine an obese person. Imagine them both standing on opposite ends of a room full of people. Which is going to draw the most negative light? The fat one. Every single part of society paints them in a negative light; magazines always humiliate celebrities for getting fat, models are skinny, TV programs constantly call out fat people as ugly, etc etc. It's not so bad over here as it is in places like America, but in school, fat people are about as loved as plague, while skinny people attract hordes of sympathizers showering them with comments on how they're beautiful no matter what. And you can blame fat people for taking out their problems on skinny people?

"But fat people are ugly! I don't like seeing them!"
If you have arguments to use that are related to attractiveness, I have nothing to say to you.

I could go on but I have better things to do. And I won't be replying to people that argue against what I've said, so don't bother trying to pick an argument. I can't be bothered. But it all boils down to this: They're a bit larger than most people. They eat more than most people. They maybe don't go outside that much. And this is not your problem whatsoever, and it is none of your business how healthy their lifestyle is. You have no right to tell them how to live their lives, and you have no right to bully them for it. You have no fucking idea what bullying does to people. Putting people through it just because they don't live the same way you do is pathetic.

TL;DR: Yes, they are being discriminated against.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Yep. The NHS (National Health Service) in the UK has an on-and-off scheme to buy gym membership for obese people in order to help them to lose weight. The argument has been that some people are "too poor" to be able to lose weight, as they can't pay for healthy food or expensive gym membership.

Not only is this a colossal waste of money, it has led to (admittedly, a small minority) seeing the free gym membership as one of their human rights, and becoming outraged when the scheme is withdrawn from their area due to budget cuts.

I had to go for a very long walk to cool down after watching a woman on the news protesting that she was being "discriminated against" because (in her words), "If I had any other type of disability, the NHS would have to help me. But because I'm fat, they can cut off my support any time they like!"

Oh, this is in the UK. That explains why I hadn't heard of it; I only rarely follow news from the other side of the pond.

Doesn't obesity kill more people than smoking? Pretty sure it does.

Weird in that case how smoking is so reviled but being overweight is seen as normal.

1) No, it doesn't.

2) Where is this?

Failed dieters, by definition, fail at dieting. And the basis of dieting is in taking care to eat things that are good for you rather than things that are not.

You don't know much about the typical weight-loss diet, do you? Because you're jumping to the conclusion that they focus on nutritional balance and "eating right." Hell, you seem to be conflating dieting with eating right. And that's not necessarily the case.

Failed dieters, therefore, do indeed lack willpower. But willpower is a relative thing; a reforming drug addict needs more willpower to kick the habit of a lifetime than I do to get off my lazy backside and do some work. A dieter, in turn, needs even more willpower because they have to strike a balance and maintain it.

A lack of willpower is nothing unusual in human beings. I lack the willpower to study hard and get good marks, but I don't feel guilty about it because I know that willpower is just as much a part of what we call 'capability' as anything genetic. The frustration that failed dieters feel is not entirely an 'Oh cruel world, why won't you let me lose weight?!' thing, there is an element of self-criticism in there because they know that it is they who ultimately made the choice to have cake instead of fruit

With food there is an added level of difficulty. A reforming drug addict does not ineed drugs to survive, I do not need to piss about on internet forums instead of writing essays, but everyone needs food, so a dieter cannot possibly go 'cold turkey' (unless such bland things are part of the regime) without damaging their health, even more so than eating too much did.

So the kind of willpower that a failed dieter lacks is not the same as the kind of willpower that a lazy person lacks, it's much harder to come by and sustain.

And by calling dieters "food addicts" and insisting that diets fail because people choose "to have cake instead of fruit," you still show a fundamental lack of understanding. Again, it's fairly clear that you've never dieted, don't know the difference between weight-loss dieting (and what it generally entails) and just eating right, and have never had any degree of body dysphoria.

All in all: all of this putting dropping a diet down to a lack of "willpower" sounds suspiciously like the words of (as they say) that jerk "Ana." Hell, if you--or my Hollywood-pudgy ass, for that matter--picked up the eating habits that are prescribed on weight-loss diets? No one would attribute it to concern about our "health," or call it "willpower," except Ana's willing entourage. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Wow. I never knew there were so many shallow people on the forum. I've seen several people genuinely trying to justify bullying against fat people and so far I've only seen people agree with them. I'm going to argue against the main points being shouted out because this has genuinely made me angry.

Oh, hey, now. I've been beating the "just eat your veggies and go play outside" drum since page 2.

For the record: I do think that the whole fat panic has gotten to its current degree for reasons based off of aesthetics (and possibly some degree of stealth classism and possibly even stealth racism, to boot; my husband has a rather complex theory involving the New Deal, industrialization, and the aftermath of WWII). I think the medical industry is just as vulnerable to these attitudes as anyone else. And I still say that their excessive focus on fat (rather than, say, cardiovascular health) is at best missing the point (if not entirely counter-intuitive or borderline concern trolling).