Obesity Discrimination

[Mau95]

I dislike the idea of being fat and how accepted it is compared to smoking or drinking but it's nothing against fat people personally.

Doesn't obesity kill more people than smoking? Pretty sure it does.

Weird in that case how smoking is so reviled but being overweight is seen as normal.

Not that I give a shit what you wanna do with your life, lol.

I was just reading your Diablo 3 piracy thread. Glad that you don't care about what I do with my life though.

Oh, that wasn't aimed at you. I mean I don't care if people want to be fat or to smoke or to take drugs. Not my life and not my body.

Or maybe you got that and I'm missing something... That could also be it.

Very well, then I shall stop giving a damn.

 

[Mikkaddo]

Save the whales, harpoon a fat chick

[sub]Can't remember where I heard that line but it's freakin' terrible [/sub]

Being fat is associated with greed and/or a lack of self control/discipline.

It's understandable that people would want to paint those personality traits in a negative light, but at the same time, fat jokes stopped being funny a long time ago.

I've never hated on someone because they were fat, but at the same time, I never tiptoed around the issue either.

Besides, there's a difference between being a bit chubby, and being obese.

if you ask anyone in governmental positions no there's not. I'm about 5 foot 7, and close to 256 pounds, healthy as shit and can easily lift more than my body weight, BUT according to the government. I'm dangerously overweight! because OH NO I'm over 200pounds

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Because you are forced to pay for charity. If you want to, then fine. Awesome. Go ahead. But to force everyone to pay for other people's issues is absurd. I don't want to pay for Joe Blog to have heart surgery because they ate themselves into a heart attack, or for Jane Smith to have a transplanted organ 'cause she ruined the last one on drugs and alcohol, or for Random Person #3 to get treated for cancer after smoking a pack a day for thirty years.

Forcing people to pay for other people's medical care is absurd. It'd be no different than if the government came out tomorrow and said they are increasing taxes to make everyone pay the bills for the poor.

Opt in and opt out healthcare? Great. Forcing hardworking people who never need healthcare to pay for some unhealthy bastard's hospital trip? Inane.

Actually I'm quite happy about stopping poor people from living in grinding poverty. Still, I respect your position although I do believe it carries the drawback of making healthcare something only the wealthy elite can have. I think we may have fundamentally different views on what society is for, which might be a good laugh to explore.

So, bringing us back to the original topic, you reckon fat people should be denied health-care, along with smokers and sad people?

Denied? No. I think healthcare system should be opt in and out. If you want to pay the bills/tax, you and everyone else on the system can use the healthcare when you need it. If you don't want to pay the bills/tax, you can't use the system when you need it and must pay in full (as in 99% of cases, healthcare just pays for some of the bill, not all of it, anyay).

Should fat people pay more? Also, what happens to poor people who haven't opted in when they get ill? Will the state lay on the cost of a sedative for them as they climb into a pit with all the other opt outs to be filled in with dirt or will it just be two stout lads with iron bars?

Maybe we should do the same with education? I mean, I don't plan on having any kids so maybe I shouldn't have to subsidise breeders?

In most countries your health does dictate how much you pay for the service, with the older and less healthy you are, the more you pay in premiums. So yeah, this is already in affect. It's just a shame some countries (the one I live in, for one) force compulsory health tax. I'm fairly certain the majority (if not the vast majority) of countries do not use this form of unavoidable healthcare.

I don't know about education. It's a different issue and I'd have to look into it before commenting.

Okay, solid.

One problem thoughl; isn't the fact that Greece have a kind of unofficial 'opt out' for taxes kind of why they're in a world of shit? I mean, they spend like they don't have an opt out, what with it being unofficial and all so... hmmm... okay that kind of buggers that as an argument. Wait, no it doesn't! Right, so, you've got people opting out of health care spending left, right, and centre so that means you can't really provide any social healthcare because it's expensive. Therefore it has to be privately financed, which means medical insurance, which is what you'd have in order to 'opt in'.

So that means you've got vast swathes of the population with no access to healthcare unless the insurance is mandatory, in which case you might as well have tax funded healthcare.

I don't think you understand where I'm coming from. Let me explain: I don't want to pay for other people's problems. They can't pay for medical attention? Sucks to be them. Not my problem. So the scenario you're describing isn't against my argument--though, it's not for it, either.

I don't want to pay for some random guy in my state to get his shit kidney switched out for the same reason I don't want to pay African taxes--it's just not my problem. If you really care about all these people and stuff, awesome. I hope you give to charity and go overseas to help feed and shelter the 2billion or so people living in poverty. Me? I'm selfish and only care about my friends, their families and my family.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Well when I see an obese person I make 2 distinctions. They are dumb and probably don't care about themselves, since obesity is avoidable. I will still talk to them and interact with them, but I will never find them attractive, or assume they deserve my full respect, since I don't feel they respect themselves.

Since one does weight determine intelligence? Just because you don't want to slim doesn't mean you can't be smart, yo.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think my biggest problem with this is how judgemental it is.

You have absolutely no idea why someone is unfit or overweight. It would be like hating someone because they have burn scars.

Yes some people are just greedy but others might have mental difficulties or physical problems.
How can you go around judging people when you don't know anything about them.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I think my biggest problem with this is how judgemental it is.

You have absolutely no idea why someone is unfit or overweight. It would be like hating someone because they have burn scars.

Yes some people are just greedy but others might have mental difficulties or physical problems.
How can you go around judging people when you don't know anything about them.

Humans like to do that. Be it witches, other religions, teh gayz, or just black people in general.

Yeah... We are pretty good at being huge pricks to one another. Blame evolution and our hardwired urge to dislike and distrust anything different out of fear.

Also: who hates people because they have burn scars? Or was that just hypothetical? NEVERMIND. I do actually have about a dozen 30cm+ scars on my back. I actually let that ruin my first proper relationship. See, this girl I was serious with (enough to be arranging moving in together) was continually hinting, in lesser and lesser degrees of subtly that she wanted to have sex. She eventually just walked up to me and gave me some condoms, lol. Anyway, I never could find the courage to sleep with her due to the scars (no one knows about them, really) and it saw the demise of our relationship.

/random, totally unrelated rant for no apparent reason

 

[MetalMagpie]

Besides, there's a difference between being a bit chubby, and being obese.

if you ask anyone in governmental positions no there's not. I'm about 5 foot 7, and close to 256 pounds, healthy as shit and can easily lift more than my body weight, BUT according to the government. I'm dangerously overweight! because OH NO I'm over 200pounds

I think some people just find it quite difficult to get their head around the idea that there is such a huge variety in body shapes. They want everyone to match a template.

I'll confess that (without being able to see you) those numbers sound scary to me simply because you're the same height as me, but weigh over double what I do. But that's my problem not yours. I just have to remember that I'm a slender (and depressingly curve-less) individual. If you're healthy and happy, then it's the right shape for you and the government can f**k right off.

 

[Bertylicious]

I don't think you understand where I'm coming from. Let me explain: I don't want to pay for other people's problems. They can't pay for medical attention? Sucks to be them. Not my problem. So the scenario you're describing isn't against my argument--though, it's not for it, either.

I don't want to pay for some random guy in my state to get his shit kidney switched out for the same reason I don't want to pay African taxes--it's just not my problem. If you really care about all these people and stuff, awesome. I hope you give to charity and go overseas to help feed and shelter the 2billion or so people living in poverty. Me? I'm selfish and only care about my friends, their families and my family.

Indeed I did not! Glad we got that sorted. It is refreshing to see a sincere position for a change.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I don't think you understand where I'm coming from. Let me explain: I don't want to pay for other people's problems. They can't pay for medical attention? Sucks to be them. Not my problem. So the scenario you're describing isn't against my argument--though, it's not for it, either.

I don't want to pay for some random guy in my state to get his shit kidney switched out for the same reason I don't want to pay African taxes--it's just not my problem. If you really care about all these people and stuff, awesome. I hope you give to charity and go overseas to help feed and shelter the 2billion or so people living in poverty. Me? I'm selfish and only care about my friends, their families and my family.

Indeed I did not! Glad we got that sorted. It is refreshing to see a sincere position for a change.

The internet makes this shit hard, lol. All you have to go by is text and it's almost impossible to fully grasp context when the simple act of reading the message means you receive the information from your own perspective.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Besides, there's a difference between being a bit chubby, and being obese.

if you ask anyone in governmental positions no there's not. I'm about 5 foot 7, and close to 256 pounds, healthy as shit and can easily lift more than my body weight, BUT according to the government. I'm dangerously overweight! because OH NO I'm over 200pounds

I think some people just find it quite difficult to get their head around the idea that there is such a huge variety in body shapes. They want everyone to match a template.

I'll confess that (without being able to see you) those numbers sound scary to me simply because you're the same height as me, but weigh over double what I do. But that's my problem not yours. I just have to remember that I'm a slender (and depressingly curve-less) individual. If you're healthy and happy, then it's the right shape for you and the government can f**k right off.

Why is that depressing? Some people happen to find no curves quite cute and pretty. I think it's very selfish of you to not consider our feelings when discussing your body-type.

 

[Mikkaddo]

Besides, there's a difference between being a bit chubby, and being obese.

if you ask anyone in governmental positions no there's not. I'm about 5 foot 7, and close to 256 pounds, healthy as shit and can easily lift more than my body weight, BUT according to the government. I'm dangerously overweight! because OH NO I'm over 200pounds

I think some people just find it quite difficult to get their head around the idea that there is such a huge variety in body shapes. They want everyone to match a template.

I'll confess that (without being able to see you) those numbers sound scary to me simply because you're the same height as me, but weigh over double what I do. But that's my problem not yours. I just have to remember that I'm a slender (and depressingly curve-less) individual. If you're healthy and happy, then it's the right shape for you and the government can f**k right off.

Well, you see I carry most of it in legs and arms, the only part of me that's "swollen" looking is my stomach and that's not much bigger than what's considered normal. Hell most of my friends claim I'm not actually fat, even though my belly jiggles like santa when I laugh >.>

Basically, I'm not huge, hell I wear a 42 pants and XL shirts, which is damn near normal for most anyone over 5 foot 5 XD

 

[Spineyguy]

Again it's about having the willpower. Most people choose to lose weight based on some absurd aesthetic ideal or because they think that a few extra months of ill health and agony at the end of their life is worth it, then they remember that they like cake and suffer a relapse. It takes a lot of hard work and discipline to lose weight and maintaining that level of concentration is even harder.

Yes, it's easy (and, in the current environment, even tempting) to accuse failed dieters of lacking "willpower" and being overly fond of cake.

But that ignores the fact that the whole system is flawed. Again, even modern medicine knows it's flawed. But there's some big bucks to be had in keeping the population in a constant state of body dysphoria; tacking a trumped-up health scare onto it just makes it easier.

When all is said and done, it's simply not worth the effort in my mind. I, however, am tremendously lucky that I am not naturally prone to gaining weight.

I can tell. While you did accuse failed dieters of being weak-willed, you weren't rabid about it.

Failed dieters, by definition, fail at dieting. And the basis of dieting is in taking care to eat things that are good for you rather than things that are not. Failed dieters, therefore, do indeed lack willpower. But willpower is a relative thing; a reforming drug addict needs more willpower to kick the habit of a lifetime than I do to get off my lazy backside and do some work. A dieter, in turn, needs even more willpower because they have to strike a balance and maintain it.

A lack of willpower is nothing unusual in human beings. I lack the willpower to study hard and get good marks, but I don't feel guilty about it because I know that willpower is just as much a part of what we call 'capability' as anything genetic. The frustration that failed dieters feel is not entirely an 'Oh cruel world, why won't you let me lose weight?!' thing, there is an element of self-criticism in there because they know that it is they who ultimately made the choice to have cake instead of fruit

With food there is an added level of difficulty. A reforming drug addict does not ineed drugs to survive, I do not need to piss about on internet forums instead of writing essays, but everyone needs food, so a dieter cannot possibly go 'cold turkey' (unless such bland things are part of the regime) without damaging their health, even more so than eating too much did.

So the kind of willpower that a failed dieter lacks is not the same as the kind of willpower that a lazy person lacks, it's much harder to come by and sustain.

 

[MetalMagpie]

I just have to remember that I'm a slender (and depressingly curve-less) individual. If you're healthy and happy, then it's the right shape for you and the government can f**k right off.

Why is that depressing? Some people happen to find no curves quite cute and pretty. I think it's very selfish of you to not consider our feelings when discussing your body-type.

*laughs* Sorry, I was speaking purely for myself there. My boyfriend clearly has no problem with my body shape. I just have the occasional moment of looking at some of my friends (the ones with proper hour-glass figures) and wishing I had a little more flesh in the relevant areas.

In true grass-is-always-greener fashion, one of those friends is currently trying to lose weight, and claims to be madly jealous that I can scoff down Thai food and still fit my arse into (UK) size 8 jeans. She is utterly gorgeous (F cups and a big round bum, with a tiny waist in between), so I do wonder whether the whole slimming-to-fit-a-dress thing may just be to challenge herself. Who knows.

Thinking about it, what we really need is some sort of "exchangeable-bodies-for-different-occasions" technology. So I can have a pair of massive boobs (plus matching hips) for going on a night out, but change back to my normal body for playing sport (and squeezing on to commuter trains in the morning).

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I just have to remember that I'm a slender (and depressingly curve-less) individual. If you're healthy and happy, then it's the right shape for you and the government can f**k right off.

Why is that depressing? Some people happen to find no curves quite cute and pretty. I think it's very selfish of you to not consider our feelings when discussing your body-type.

*laughs* Sorry, I was speaking purely for myself there. My boyfriend clearly has no problem with my body shape. I just have the occasional moment of looking at some of my friends (the ones with proper hour-glass figures) and wishing I had a little more flesh in the relevant areas.

In true grass-is-always-greener fashion, one of those friends is currently trying to lose weight, and claims to be madly jealous that I can scoff down Thai food and still fit my arse into (UK) size 8 jeans. She is utterly gorgeous (F cups and a big round bum, with a tiny waist in between), so I do wonder whether the whole slimming-to-fit-a-dress thing may just be to challenge herself. Who knows.

Thinking about it, what we really need is some sort of "exchangeable-bodies-for-different-occasions" technology. So I can have a pair of massive boobs (plus matching hips) for going on a night out, but change back to my normal body for playing sport (and squeezing on to commuter trains in the morning).

Oh the wonders of the future. Cures for cancers and AIDS. World hunger solved. Teleportation and light-speed travel. But most importantly... magic booby machines!

I actually prefer A's or small B's on my female partners (I'm not too fond of breasts on my boyfriends) it's so cute and sex :33

 

[Kinokohatake]

Well I'm chubby. And I discriminate against super skinny people and muscular people. So it's okay.

 

[A_Play_On_Words]

Do you think that people, or the country in general, discriminate against those who are "obese"?

Yes. But as it has been pointed out, we discriminate against anything we see as different from us or the same as us (if we are ashamed of it). Is it fair to single out the obese? No. we can't know why they are; it could be a metabolism issue, or an unhealthy knee-jerk physical reaction to psychological stimuli that causes it. Perhaps, for some, it could even be old habits, very hard to shake. It is unlikely, though possible, that it could be just that they are lazy and gluttonous, but it is a gross oversimplification to assume everyone who is obese is.
If what I said sounds like something already stated, then it is.

 

[twohundredpercent]

lol who gives a shit.

All's I know is dudes who were fat but lost a lot of weight and aren't fat anymore tend to be annoying douchebags. The get all smug and shit. Which makes it way funnier when they regain the weight.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Anyone who deviates from the social or physical norm in any country is fair game for discrimination. It's sad, but true. If you want to feel better, though, consider that Quatar is about to outclass the US as the fattest country in existence, with a 40% obesity rate.

The reason why? It's one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and there's a cultural tradition of servitude (not slavery, actually paid waiting staff).

Discrimination sucks, obviously, but obesity is usually one of the few instances where the afflicted can choose to do something about it. I'll be the first to support a chunky guy on his new and genuine journey towards weight loss, but if he just sits there and complains that people have no consideration, I'll just hang my head in shame.

Plus, I'm all for self-love and general positive attitudes prior to going on a serious diet or getting surgery, but stuff like fat admirer movements really creep me out. Seeing as it's largely non-pornographic, you can find a ton of "gainer" videos on YouTube. The problem, society's developed a subculture where huge rolls of fat on a mature man are now considered as sexually attractive elements. Between being aware of the problem and more or less twisting it into an object of desire; there's a whole spectrum of general thought and overall attraction I'm seriously not willing to explore.

 

[Platypus540]

I think that some degree of 'weight discrimination' is needed, especially for certain jobs. For example, all police officers should definitely have to meet certain physical fitness standards or risk demotion or some other professional consequence.

Being overweight really shouldn't be considered a medical condition. It's your own damn fault if you weigh 300-some-odd pounds, not a disease.

Yes, I do recognize that some people have actual medical issues (thyroid problems, etc.) that make them overweight, but these are not exactly common problems.

 

[renegade7]

How exactly are they being discriminated against?