On Dialogue Menus

[badgersprite]

Ha! Sounds like you've been stealing my thoughts.

It honestly wouldn't be too hard to innovate the dialogue system. At the very least, if they wanted to maintain simplicity, they could implement, "Positive/Negative" responses with the D-Pad, which would work in a first-person sort of game, since you could use it in the world and not just in conversation. Up button is equivalent to your character saying yes, down button for no.

We even have a good model for mood/response/interaction that other developers could use. If the expression wheel system from Fable were implemented seriously instead of just being about farting, it could be very effective. If they combined that system with complex, scripted dialogue, it could flow quite well. Sure, that system doesn't give your character much of a sense of personality compared to seeing or hearing what they say, but choosing between three predetermined dialogue choices usually ends up making your character seem kind of schizophrenic anyway.

 

[duchaked]

remember when Doomsday Arcade did the parody of Fallout 3's dialogue? haha if game dialogue was that exaggerated, I'd read it through just for the heck of it (altho game companies would need to hire writers to come up with a lot of insults)

 

[katsabas]

This sounds a bit complex but it could work. Yahtzee should also consider something like the Gamespeak system introduced in Abe's Oddysee. That worked quite well.

 

[Nazrel]

His idea seems similar to the system in the upcoming Sakura Wars game.

http://www.sakurawars.us/system/

 

[Voltano]

Well...I'm not sure I follow how Yahtzee's dialogue idea works here. I get the idea of the two analog sticks, but it just sounds like he wants the same dialog menu but saying the options in various emotions.

Anyways, dialogues are something that came out of the ancient point-and-click era games and...I'm kind of mixed on them. On one hand they are repetitive and slow down the game tremendously (which, unfortunately, makes it hard for me to get into games like this like any Bioware game or even "Planescape: Torment"). On the other hand, they do give an interactive element to dialog that works...I guess...for a game. I'd rather take this option over a cinema in a JRPG because at least you can *choose* what is coming out of the protagonist's mouth.

I always liked the dialogue system in the old "Shadowrun" game for the SNES actually. Okay so the characters still stand still in the conversation, but since dialogues are about getting information from NPCs I think the SNES "Shadowrun" did it best. Your character would acquire words during conversations that you can instantly ask any NPC you chat with. They could give you a simple answer of something like "I don't know anything about that", or reveal something to you if you tell them the proper word.

I'm not sure I would like to make a mini-game for dialogues to spice it up (like what "Magna Cum Laude" does)--or even the dreaded idea of making it a quick-time event.

 

[Worgen]

they actualy did that in legend of kyrandia 3, you could select the kind of attitude your char would have in conversation and that would either make some npcs like you or dislike you, it was amusing but Im not sure if it really would work with a game like dragon age

 

[SantoUno]

This is quite interesting. Yes I would really like to play a game with an innovative dialogue mechanic that doesn't feel like just selecting questions to get a preprogrammed response.

 

[Supp]

With me so far? Okay. Conversation proceeds automatically, and while one character is talking, the other gives appropriate feedback - nods, "uh huhs," "reallys," that sort of thing. The left stick is used for choosing Topic. The right stick is for Attitude. Topic varies from character to character of course, but one of the options will always be Unimportant Small Talk. Attitude varies from topic to topic, and can be things like Bored, Glib, Creepily Enthusiastic, and there will always be the option to Want To Leave.

"Remember, press L2 to inhale and R2 to exhale. Mash X repeatedly to digest your lunch."

Was the first thing that came to mind after reading this.

And what happens when you revert to small talk, then come back in a few hours? Will the person just awkwardly pause at you?

 

[Swaki]

sounds like an...idea, real life conversations arent really interesting until you've had a few beers,

Then again, in the systemo of Leisure Suit Larry: magna cum laude (yay! I remembered the name I forgot on another topic yesterday!) if larry had a few beers the game would get much harder, with a harder to control sperm... Quite realistic, I suppose...

while i never played any of the Leisure Suit Larry games, i do work as an bartender and i get more than my share of beers, so i consider myself a drunk conversation expert, and while its true that some goal, such as convincing a sober woman to sleep whit you, gets hard, its rare that you drink alone and still have some one to talk too (well, some times right after we open there will be drunk talking to me) and then talking gets easier, i don't know if it just me but looking at my friends now i realize we didn't really become friends before we had a few beers together.

but that wouldn't save the original problem as we both got into in our original posts, Mr. Croshaw's idea is just bad.

 

[The Random One]

Internet decency laws? Ha!

The worst thing is that this might work, but only if designers are willing to eschew voice acting. Creating a series of generic responses works, but only if the player inputs the appropriate tone to them. One of the worst things about the dialogue in Fallout 3 (although not quite as bad as your conversation partners' eerie, glowy zombie eyes) is that sometimes if you say something bad the character will get angry, then the next conversation choice they're all mellow again.

And no one will willingly risk losing sales and getting bad reviews due to a lack of voice acting, just as no one will risk creating a game that has interesting, complex mechanics but needs to have worse graphics to run it. That's the foot the industry is in right now - risks are too high for anyone to attempt actual innovation. Fortunately, it will soon collapse and we can start making something interesting then.

 

[hathfallen]

I'm reminded of a scene in Grim Fandango where Manny seduces the airport security guard and she starts rambling about random things, and Manny's dialogue choices change in real time as she's talking. Something like that made more commonplace in a game might be at least a step in the right direction. I don't think Yahtzee's idea is all that feasible (in fact it sounds like the kind of thing he'd end up complaining about in a ZP video)

 

[Tharwen]

Well, Mr Croshaw. It appears you have had a good idea. That simply won't do.

 

[Aurora219]

I disagree with you. The idea of a minigame is all well and good, but if you spanner it, what then? You can't do the quest? You're stuck?

Regardless, I think the conversation scription in Dragon Age is stellar compared to most other RPGs. The text is flowing, witty, and although ridiculously long (9 novels worth?!) you don't HAVE to talk to everyone if you don't want to.

I guess you're the kind of guy who prefers to talk with his six foot sword instead, eh?

 

[RedFox042]

they where gonna do something like that in Alpha Protocol. but then it got pushed back til NEXT YEAR! not with the dual stick conversation, but with the you just choose what type of response ( happy, angry, domineering. etc. ) you wanted and it filled in the dialog, and if you took to long to respond it just went with what you did last time.

 

[thatstheguy]

Sounds like a good idea to make conversations in games more human. Having said that though, there is still probably a better way. This method might make talking to NPCs a chore, especially in RPGs where you have to manipulate others to get what you want. Could work though.

 

[AlbeyAmakiir]

Play 'Trust and Betrayal: The Legacy of Siboot'. Best conversation system ever. Inverse parser. The guy is now making 'Storytron' which is like that but even better. Yes, I know 'better than best' makes no sense, but I like being excited.

 

[Stormshadow243]

I remember you mentioning this in the live interview at the Games X convention, I was hoping you'd bring it up again.

 

[Vohn_exel]

Pretty good idea, although it could get a bit tedious when you just want to run around and hurt stuff. Doesn't Alpha Protocol have something where you just kind of influence the tone of the conversation or something like that? Maybe thats the way to go.