On Gaymers and Cons

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Looking at the comic... did he just compare being gay to a religion? And then compare it to a gender?

*headdesk*

He's not comparing homosexuality to any of those things, he's using different situations to point out how silly the mentality is.

By applying it in circumstances that are very different? He was drawing(pun!) comparisons...

I don't care if there is a gay-orientated gaming convention, but the cartoon doesn't strike me as being at all clever.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

On the topic of not liking gay people, it's not that I don't like gay people, it's just I hate flamboyance. I hate really camp people that are straight too. I mean it's probably just that all the gay guys I've met have been preening arseholes, but I don't judge every gay based on those guys twattishness.

I also think musicals are for retarded people who don't understand subtlety.

Not sure what your intent for that post was since you're really making a terrible case for yourself when you say you're not judgey then randomly insult people with different theatrical tastes than you.

 

[DataSnake]

Simple exercise for straight people who don't understand the appeal of Gaymercon: go there. Take note of how you feel in an environment specifically geared toward people whose sexuality is different from your own. You may notice you feel a bit uncomfortable because you're in the minority, even though (hopefully) nobody's being overtly or intentionally hostile to you. That's how gay people feel at "normal" cons. Is it any wonder they want a place where they can hang out with fellow gamers without that niggling discomfort prodding at the back of their mind?

 

[psijac]

That is a sandwich they serve at Denny's its grilled cheese with Mozzarella stick inserted between the slices. Just because you are combining two things you like doesn't make the new thing better. It probably won't provide a better experience than enjoying those thing separately.

Everyone in favor of this idea will take the easy way out like the author of the comic and say, "That's because you're just lactose intolerant."

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

"Straightmers" already exist. They're called gamers. That's why we have "girl gamers" too, because the default is the straight white male.

I think it is an important distinction to make that homosexuals and heterosexuals do not play video games, people do. That is to say that they are people first, everything else at least should come secondary. It is true that the majority of these people consequently happen to be heterosexual males. Currently this majority is being blatantly targeted in various ways in the industry and society in general, but a person's sexuality doesn't have to have anything to do with the medium or their way of living nor should it. It shouldn't be a defining factor, a simple piece of information that is consciously taken into account and misused.

I just don't see how further seperating people who for example happen to play video games into various sub-groups helps create equality in the long-term. A sense of recognition perhaps, but not of equality or unity.

I explain that here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=10#16243804]. The short version is "I call myself differently because that word doesn't apply to me." Women, LGBT people and people of colour are never going to get what they want (entertainment aimed at them) if they continue to be quiet while the entertainment industry pretends they don't exist. Quietly accepting the gamer label means quietly accepting the tacit implication that you're assumed to be a straight white male by the industry. That is not going to get you anywhere.

Do you not see the exclusion you're promoting, though? You're taking the perception that gays aren't welcome at regular cons, and basically saying "well, since we're not welcome there, you're not welcome in this discussion." It doesn't really come across as inclusive to me. It's not even really a debate, anyway. More some people expressing confusion at the need for a gay specific con, and then other people first saying "well you couldn't possibly understand," and once someone comes in saying they probably could, being told they don't have a place in the discussion, because they're straight. Which is really ironic, since this is supposed to be a completely inclusive convention. Although why they didn't just call it something like "gamers without labels" if that's what they wanted is beyond me.

You misunderstand. Nobody's saying that straight people can't ask about the gay specific con, I'm saying that straight people have no business inserting themselves in a discussion that doesn't affect them at all. It's like a man butting into a conversation between women to talk to them about periods or pregnancy. Unless he's a physician or similarly qualified expert, he has no business talking about something he's not a part of and will never affect him (unless he has a pregnant/menstruating wife/girlfriend, and even then he's being affected very indirectly).

One of the hallmarks of male privilege, for example, is the firm belief that you as a man have a right to have your opinion heard and taken seriously by women, regardless of subject, while at the same time rolling your eyes or dismissing women's opinion on topics like sports, cars, business or the like. This is what you're doing here. You're dismissing the problems, wants and needs of the LGBT community while complaining that your opinion ought to be taken seriously.

The convention isn't about equality or inclusion. It's about giving the LGBT community a safe space that caters to them and thinks about their problems and neglected wants and needs within the gamer community. Whether this is a good idea in the long term or not, and whether it's hypocritical of us as a community or not is up for debate, yes, but it's an internal matter within the community. It doesn't concern straight people because the problems that we face are not your problems, and the decisions we're making do not affect you at all. We don't have to include straight people in that discussion because it doesn't concern them at all. It would be like a random stranger from another city asking to be included in a conversation about what colour to paint your bedroom. It's absolutely irrelevant for them and you are not obligated to listen to their opinion at all.

Actually, I'm offering my opinion as a human being. If this con is about getting out and meeting other gay people in the context of a gaming convention, that's awesome. Conventions in general, for just about anything, tend to be hookup central anyway, and gay people have it harder with that by virtue of only making up 10% of the population. That wasn't a "gays are promiscuous" stereotype, it was a "people (period) hook up at conventions" truth.

The problem I have with this convention, is that's not what it's being framed as. It's being framed as this awesome step for gay rights, when it's really not. If anything, if that's the goal, it's a step back, not forward. Calling white privilege doesn't make my opinion on /that/ any less valid. For cryin' out loud, my parents (and therefore I) were heavily involved with the ACLU while I was growing up, and would be today if my mother and I weren't too busy completing our degrees (my Bachelors, her Law degree) to be involved. So not only have I lived activism, I've been formally trained on a lot of good ways to do it. Gone to Washington to lobby and everything. Plus, my degree is in social science ed -- I've studied a lot of this from an academic perspective, too. But I'm straight, so obviously my opinion doesn't count. Gotcha.

Edit: Hell, "Problem" is too strong of a word. I started out playing devil's advocate and pointing out that certain people who were defending it in the name of tolerance were being themselves intolerant. Then internet arguments being the polarizing cesspits they are, I wound up getting more and more personally invested in something that really, I don't give two craps about. It's a convention for gays, cool. That's not what really bothers me. What bothers me is people saying "well you're white, straight, and male, so even though you're a gamer who is involved enough in the hobby to be posting on a forum dedicated to it, and are therefore probably a huge nerd (which means you were also probably a social outcast growing up) you're straight, and therefore you know nothing about being a social outcast." Don't just call white privilege and be done with it if you want things to change. When you're talking to people with that privilege, try putting it into terms they can understand. Like, say, reminding a nerd of middle or high school bullying. They just might get it.

 

[maninahat]

My two cents is that this can be a dangerous course to take. Humans have a long and sad history of turning specialty groups and events into exclusive groups and events. Acceptence has never been found by seperating one group from another.

Nonsense. Acceptance tends to increase as a direct consequence of greater cultural exposure - and nothing gives greater exposure than a highly publicized, public event. That's why when black people used to hold marches and protests, the result was a greater acceptance of black people. It didn't result in folks shaking their heads and going "why are blacks segregating themselves with 'black marches'?"

Besides, gay conventions (or for that matter, black protests) don't segregate. Heterosexuals are free to go to these events too. In fact it would be nice if people did, but heterosexuals tend to avoid going, for fear of being the odd one out, or feeling vulnerable (ironically what minorities tend to have to deal with on a regular basis).

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Simple exercise for straight people who don't understand the appeal of Gaymercon: go there. Take note of how you feel in an environment specifically geared toward people whose sexuality is different from your own. You may notice you feel a bit uncomfortable because you're in the minority, even though (hopefully) nobody's being overtly or intentionally hostile to you. That's how gay people feel at "normal" cons. Is it any wonder they want a place where they can hang out with fellow gamers without that niggling discomfort prodding at the back of their mind?

Are you gay and forever uncomfortable? How much does a gay game convention differ from the more established conventions? And in what ways?

I obviously can't provide evidence for this, but as long as the convention is still focused on games, and not gay fan art and fan fiction(which I know it's not) then I think I would be plenty comfortable. At least as comfortable as someone who generally doesn't like crowds can be.

I've said before that I'm not bothered by any of this. I'm genuinly curious about how different it would be.

 

[shemoanscazrex3]

I know a lot of people will ask why does the LGBT community need a gaming con, why do people need cons in the first place? Its so people with like minded interest can get together and share conversations and ideas without being frowned upon. Sure in a perfect world we wouldn't need this but it isn't perfect. So I'm fine with "Gaymers" however lame that title is to have their own con if it promotes positivity why not

 

[Saviordd1]

Unless gaming conventions are REALLY homphobic events

Imagine Xbox live in person.

I kid.

Xbox live is probably friendlier.

Hilarity of my jokes aside, why do you care if they have a gaymer con? Need or not, they want it and since these thing exist entirely to satisfy want there is one.

I never found cons to be that bad at all.

Comic con was a very friendly place, probably friendlier than most big gatherings of people. (I'm looking at you baseball)

 

[alphamalet]

Simple exercise for straight people who don't understand the appeal of Gaymercon: go there. Take note of how you feel in an environment specifically geared toward people whose sexuality is different from your own. You may notice you feel a bit uncomfortable because you're in the minority, even though (hopefully) nobody's being overtly or intentionally hostile to you. That's how gay people feel at "normal" cons. Is it any wonder they want a place where they can hang out with fellow gamers without that niggling discomfort prodding at the back of their mind?

Are you gay and forever uncomfortable? How much does a gay game convention differ from the more established conventions? And in what ways?

I obviously can't provide evidence for this, but as long as the convention is still focused on games, and not gay fan art and fan fiction(which I know it's not) then I think I would be plenty comfortable. At least as comfortable as someone who generally doesn't like crowds can be.

I've said before that I'm not bothered by any of this. I'm genuinly curious about how different it would be.

Against my better judgement I'm going to jump in and second this post. I've had gay friends in the past, and gay roommates as well. I was constantly in an environment where people's sexuality was different from my own. It didn't make me feel uncomfortable. The reason why I never felt uncomfortable is because the environments I was always in were never explicitly aimed at a sexuality. Now I've never been to one, but from what I understand a gaming convention isn't exactly a place where a sexuality of any kind is a driving force behind the meet-up or the content there. It's a convention about gaming...

If the gay, lesbian, and bisexual community want to have their own convention, then fine, but to me it seems like interjecting a specific sexual orientation into a convention about something completely unrelated muddles up the point of the convention in the first place, gay or straight. If you care about games, and you want to go to a gaming convention, why does the majority of the people's sexuality matter?

That's why I think this entire comic is sort of a nonissue. I'd also like to say that I've only seen a couple of these comics, but if these guys never get off their soapbox, then I won't be looking into any more of them. The smug tone of it all just turns me off.

 

[Upbeat Zombie]

While the motivations for wanting to go to a gaymer-con may not be clear to people. The only thing that really matters is that homosexual gamers themselves want to attend these conventions.

It's not like homosexual gamers are being forced to attend a Gaymer-con over a normal gamer-con. They're going because they wan't to. And in the end what more reason do you need for it to exist, then that there is a demand for it?

 

[AngloDoom]

I just wish we could have more appealing to LGBT audiences within regular old Gaming Conventions. I'm sure the majority of people here who don't understand the reasons for Gaymercon are in exactly the same position - just wishing the two events could seamlessly combine without having to make a 'gay section' of the fanbase.

It's a shame we're not at that point yet, but I feel the reason why many people don't understand Gaymercon is that it makes the homosexual audiences in Gamescon even more invisible if some of the LGBT community is going elsewhere for their conventions. While I'm not going to pretend to understand the pressures that a homosexual, bisexual, or transsexual individual receives in such events (or in general life) I can at least say I'd much prefer a marching band of 'We're here, we're queer, get over it' through the 'regular' Gaming Conventions than seeing the same community funnelled into a different event and forgotten.

 

[Xanex]

My two cents is that this can be a dangerous course to take. Humans have a long and sad history of turning specialty groups and events into exclusive groups and events. Acceptence has never been found by seperating one group from another.

Nonsense. Acceptance tends to increase as a direct consequence of greater cultural exposure - and nothing gives greater exposure than a highly publicized, public event. That's why when black people used to hold marches and protests, the result was a greater acceptance of black people. It didn't result in folks shaking their heads and going "why are blacks segregating themselves with 'black marches'?"

Besides, gay conventions (or for that matter, black protests) don't segregate. Heterosexuals are free to go to these events too. In fact it would be nice if people did, but heterosexuals tend to avoid going, for fear of being the odd one out, or feeling vulnerable (ironically what minorities tend to have to deal with on a regular basis).

A gay gamer convention is not a protest, And if a protest is the goal then they would be protesting at the current cons to air the greivences not making their own. I am referencing things like political and social groups that started out as a place where minorities gathered because they felt unwelcome and became minority exclusive. There are several polictical and social groups where this HAS happened. And has done nothing for acceptence and tolerance in the group where they felt they were not welcome.

 

[Daveman]

Not sure what your intent for that post was since you're really making a terrible case for yourself when you say you're not judgey then randomly insult people with different theatrical tastes than you.

Oh no, I'm definitely judgmental, it's just I don't judge people on whether or not they fancy men, that doesn't really matter to me. I entirely reserve the right to hate people based on their opinions on theatre and their choice of clothes and all sorts of things.

I'm basically saying that I'm not specifically homophobic, I just hate a lot of stuff that typically (or stereotypically) gay people do.

On the topic of not liking gay people, it's not that I don't like gay people, it's just I hate flamboyance. I hate really camp people that are straight too. I mean it's probably just that all the gay guys I've met have been preening arseholes, but I don't judge every gay based on those guys twattishness.

well flamboyant people are gonna be famboyant people...gotta learn to deal with it

[quote/]I also think musicals are for retarded people who don't understand subtlety.

please don;t tell me your honestly serious[/quote]You're honestly serious. :O

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Not to be a dick lizard, but some of them probably just want their own con so they have a better chance of getting laid. I mean, it's in (or near) a hotel, right? (Not that there's anything wrong with that, a la Seinfeld. More power to them.)

 

[Xanex]

Not to be a dick lizard, but some of them probably just want their own con so they have a better chance of getting laid. I mean, it's in (or near) a hotel, right? (Not that there's anything wrong with that, a la Seinfeld. More power to them.)

If that was the stated premise as to why they are making their own con, I wouldn't care less and more power to them. It is the premise that they are doing it becaue they feel alienated or made to feel uncomfortable at regular cons that alot of people have a problem with.