At first I thought the idea of a gay gamer con was silly, what do those have to do with each other and all that but thinking about it cons are about finding a place to fit in and I understand that it is nice to go to a place where everyone is of the same mind and that's what this is, a place where you can share a common interest and not worry about being judged for something, which does happen at least to a noticeable extent at several cons. It would be much better if there wasn't a need for Gaymercon but we aren't at the point yet.
Also your post under the comment is fine but the comic itself does a terrible job of making your point, talk about a slippery slope.
The 'segregation' argument from people baffles me. I mean, if you're going to look at it like that, surely gay pride parades/celebrations, or LGBT rights groups, or even university groups, of which I am involved in, would all also come under the same blanket.
It's nice to see that at least some people get it, its about fitting in, and to not have to worry about people treating you differently.
But they do come under the same blanket and are complained about and it's not about fitting in. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that gay people feel out of place at a fucking gaming convention, where nerds and outcasts parade around in bright costuming that they've spent a year creating.
Really? Gay pride and rights groups are not examples of 'segregation' and neither is a convention. Just because you aren't the target audience doesn't mean you're being segregated. Also, as someone who grew up openly gay, don't tell me where gay people may or may not feel out of place. I've been abused on the street for daring to walk holding hands with my girlfriend, so bigotry still exists wherever you are, and by extension, these things could also happen at gaming conventions. If you don't like the idea of Gaymercon, don't go. It's that simple.
Not to be a dick lizard, but some of them probably just want their own con so they have a better chance of getting laid. I mean, it's in (or near) a hotel, right? (Not that there's anything wrong with that, a la Seinfeld. More power to them.)
If that was the stated premise as to why they are making their own con, I wouldn't care less and more power to them. It is the premise that they are doing it becaue they feel alienated or made to feel uncomfortable at regular cons that alot of people have a problem with.
Oh, they just want lots of gay computer nerd hook ups?
Why didn't they just SAY so?
But seriously the whole thing is a bit depressing, it almost feels as though regular conventions have been insulting towards homosexuals in some manner. It's as though they don't want to hang out with the straight gamers anymore. They're gonna make their own convention. With black jack. And hookers.
Not sure what your intent for that post was since you're really making a terrible case for yourself when you say you're not judgey then randomly insult people with different theatrical tastes than you.
Oh no, I'm definitely judgmental, it's just I don't judge people on whether or not they fancy men, that doesn't really matter to me. I entirely reserve the right to hate people based on their opinions on theatre and their choice of clothes and all sorts of things.
I'm basically saying that I'm not specifically homophobic, I just hate a lot of stuff that typically (or stereotypically) gay people do.
Are you gay and forever uncomfortable? How much does a gay game convention differ from the more established conventions? And in what ways?
I obviously can't provide evidence for this, but as long as the convention is still focused on games, and not gay fan art and fan fiction(which I know it's not) then I think I would be plenty comfortable. At least as comfortable as someone who generally doesn't like crowds can be.
I've said before that I'm not bothered by any of this. I'm genuinly curious about how different it would be.
I'm not actually gay, but I was basing my comment on things my gay friends and sibling have told me. I do, however, have some similar experience; I'm no stranger to being the only atheist in a room full of Christians, for example, and it can get stressful at times, especially since I have to watch what I say because I'm not "out" to all my Christian friends. As to what would be different at a gay con, I don't know exactly, but I still say the best way to find out is to go to one and see for yourself.
As someone who's been involved with LGBT groups, I'm still a bit curious on the whole Gaymer thing.
I don't know, maybe it's just where I'm from, but there's very little discrimination towards gays or gay gamers for that matter considering that gaming has brought together so many of my friends.
I don't know. I'm just playing devil's advocate and am genuinely curious as to how this really works. I was not aware that gamers at default cons were so discriminating.
In relation to the trailers and box art, they're not appealing to straight white males, but rather to males in general. They show footage and images of attractive - sexy - males. That is, they're tall, muscular, tan, et cetera. Unless you're trying to say that gay males can't be muscular, which I very much doubt you're saying considering the tone of your post, I don't see how those trailers and box art apply. They do very much show how oriented towards males, and to whites, marketing is, though.
As for the Laura Croft/Nathan Drake angle, your analysis is completely true. In fact I'm only writing this because you forgot to mention that Nathan Drake is a sexy beast.
True, but the difference is how the attractiveness is portrayed. In the case of males, the attractiveness is simply another facet of who they are, it's part of the power fantasy for males ("play this game: feel hot and desirable!"), in the case of women, the attractiveness is highly emphasised and "put on display", so to speak, as an attempt to entice straight males. Nathan Drake might be a sexy beast, but in order to be comparable with Lara Croft, he should have been wearing something like this:
Tight, impractical, uncomfortable, minuscule, etc.
And even in the case where the male lead gets to show some skin, look at the poses in the DAO trailer, they have him be an arm, shoulder and head behind Morrigan, who is displaying her cleavage to the audience. I think there's a pose where we can see the side of his torso, but that's about it. It's not meant to entice women or gay men, it's meant to convey that your avatar will be attractive (among other things).
And yes, gay men do like the power fantasy, it's probably a big reason why we play videogames. The problem is that in many games, our power fantasy is annoyingly straight (not even bicurious!) and it shatters our immersion (and the point of the power fantasy) when that happens. That's just another way in which we are repeatedly told by the industry that it thinks we're invisible or not worth considering.
Owyn_Merrilin said:
Actually, I'm offering my opinion as a human being. If this con is about getting out and meeting other gay people in the context of a gaming convention, that's awesome. Conventions in general, for just about anything, tend to be hookup central anyway, and gay people have it harder with that by virtue of only making up 10% of the population. That wasn't a "gays are promiscuous" stereotype, it was a "people (period) hook up at conventions" truth.
The problem I have with this convention, is that's not what it's being framed as. It's being framed as this awesome step for gay rights, when it's really not. If anything, if that's the goal, it's a step back, not forward. Calling white privilege doesn't make my opinion on /that/ any less valid. For cryin' out loud, my parents (and therefore I) were heavily involved with the ACLU while I was growing up, and would be today if my mother and I weren't too busy completing our degrees (my Bachelors, her Law degree) to be involved. So not only have I lived activism, I've been formally trained on a lot of good ways to do it. Gone to Washington to lobby and everything. Plus, my degree is in social science ed -- I've studied a lot of this from an academic perspective, too. But I'm straight, so obviously my opinion doesn't count. Gotcha.
Edit: Hell, "Problem" is too strong of a word. I started out playing devil's advocate and pointing out that certain people who were defending it in the name of tolerance were being themselves intolerant. Then internet arguments being the polarizing cesspits they are, I wound up getting more and more personally invested in something that really, I don't give two craps about. It's a convention for gays, cool. That's not what really bothers me. What bothers me is people saying "well you're white, straight, and male, so even though you're a gamer who is involved enough in the hobby to be posting on a forum dedicated to it, and are therefore probably a huge nerd (which means you were also probably a social outcast growing up) you're straight, and therefore you know nothing about being a social outcast." Don't just call white privilege and be done with it if you want things to change. When you're talking to people with that privilege, try putting it into terms they can understand. Like, say, reminding a nerd of middle or high school bullying. They just might get it.
Listen. I will repeat myself, since it's not really coming across: I am not saying that this con is a step in the right direction for equality or inclusion. Some people might say that, but I don't. What I'm saying is that we want to decide this for ourselves. I think the point that you're missing here is that we live at the mercy of what straight people say and do. If it was up to us, gay marriage and adoption would be legalised worldwide. But it's not up to us, and that's the whole point: it's never up to us. The entire point of "this is none of your business" is to have one conversation of importance where straight people don't tell us what to do, if this is a right step for equality or not, and what we should think and feel about the subject. You may have the best intentions and qualifications, but the most respectful thing to do is to let us have what little power we can scrounge up, and let us decide for ourselves.
EDIT: I should apologise. I know this doesn't sound fair at all, but it's a matter of having at least one conversation of importance without straight people butting in just because they feel they should have an opinion on the matter. I know it sucks to be dismissed or ignored, but it's not a personal thing. This is, in a way, similar to the reason for having the con. It''s about having a space where straight people aren't the norm (after all, look at this thread: a lot of straight people are getting down on us because they feel excluded when they wouldn't give a rat's ass if WE felt excluded at regular cons) and don't dictate what to do or what to think. It's not that you can't understand or that you don't know what you're talking about. It's that we're damn tired of straight people butting in and telling us what is and is not best for us.
Can someone define "Kyriarchy" clearly? I went on wikipedia to look it up, but I didn't really understand. It was like reading jetpack instructions written in Japanese. I've gotten it somewhat from the context of other people's posts, but not completely.
Also, to tack back on to topic, gay conventions like these aren't about sexuality, they're about feeling "normal" for a change. Everywhere you go nearly everyone is straight, and even when it's not being talked about, if you're gay, there's always that lingering feeling that you aren't entirely a part of the group, unless the groups you run with are really odd already. At gay oriented conventions, you get to be normal for a change.
If you're a straight male and have any gay friends, go to a gay bar (bar, not club. Big difference). You have to go with a friend so that you don't get hit on, but you can't go with a straight friend as you would have someone on your side. It doesn't matter how liberal you are, you're going to feel weird, even though no one there will actually talk much or at all about their sexuality. And if you want to feel even weirder and more obvious, if you're white you can go to an Asian market. Don't bring an Asian friend for that one. Same feeling, just more pronounced.
I don't really agree. I'm straight; I've gone to a gay bar with a gay friend. I got hit on by less guys than at a regular rave. I wasn't uncomfortable at all, I just said I that I was straight and I was just out for a night with my friend. They understood and that was that.
Also, in my youth, I frequented Chinatown in Toronto all the time. I actually felt pretty welcome, even though I didn't speak Mandarin or Cantonese and I'm white. Most shopkeepers seemed delighted to share their food and culture with me, I actually got some really good prices on some cool rice scroll paintings. I still have them!
Certainly, it was somewhat of a culture shock. I didn't know what everything was (like those cool cubed coconuts with a straw) but I didn't feel like I was unwanted.
The whole reverse segregation argument rings hollow to me. On their webpage they specifically state: "Gaymer X is open to all, whether you?re bisexual, transgender, gay, asexual or an ally (Read: Non-homophobic person who doesn't fit into one of the above categories) and we hope to make an experience that will be meaningful as well as educational and fascinating."
[Source: http://gaymerconnect.com/info/about]
It's not like they are trying to purposely exclude people. Instead, they are trying to create a comfortable, safe environment that may not be readily available to everyone. As long as they don't try to harm or exclude people on the basis on their gender, I don't see what the problem is with trying to attract a certain demographic of gamers, nerds and so forth.
Bloody hell, why are so many people getting so bent out of shape and missing the point of this comic?
The only point is it saying the question 'Why do X need their own Y' is dumb in a lot of contexts, including this one. It's just less obvious here because of there being misconstrued homophobia in the world.
In a less inflammatory context:
Bearing in mind gay singles, couples, dogging groups, whatever the hell can drink at any bar they choose, do you know why there are gay bars? Okay. You have now answered the question 'why is there a gay gamer convention?'
Why stop at making a gaming-centered event for gay people? What about a black-gay-dog owners convention where you have to wear white T-shirts?
Hell, I'm comfortable with my sexuality and yet I hate "gay pride". By creating a subculture, gays actually alienate themselves so its more noticeable. It distinguishes them as something different instead of being cool about it. Sexuality shouldn't have much to do with your personality yet alone who you appreciate games with. Its ridiculous! These events that "pander to minorities" are absurd and detrimental to their cause. I'm for equal rights and individualism. But it gets a bit silly making members only groups for such petty unrelated things. The picture linked was irrelevant and lame. The scenarios were completely different. "We need suitable place of worship for my religion." "We need appropriate toilets to suit our genders" "We need a gaming convention to go to being gamers. Also I need to be with gays like me also, so we need to ban heterosexual and perhaps even asexual's (a greater minority) from this gathering"
I think gays having their own toilets seem more logical than this?
Why stop at making a gaming-centered event for gay people? What about a black-gay-dog owners convention where you have to wear white T-shirts?
Hell, I'm comfortable with my sexuality and yet I hate "gay pride". By creating a subculture, gays actually alienate themselves so its more noticeable. It distinguishes them as something different instead of being cool about it. Sexuality shouldn't have much to do with your personality yet alone who you appreciate games with. Its ridiculous! These events that "pander to minorities" are absurd and detrimental to their cause. I'm for equal rights and individualism. But it gets a bit silly making members only groups for such petty unrelated things. The picture linked was irrelevant and lame. The scenarios were completely different. "We need suitable place of worship for my religion." "We need appropriate toilets to suit our genders" "We need a gaming convention to go to being gamers. Also I need to be with gays like me also, so we need to ban heterosexual and perhaps even asexual's (a greater minority) from this gathering"
I think gays having their own toilets seem more logical than this?
I will link you to a previous post on this thread about straight privilege [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=8#16242266]. And to another one on why we don't want to hear straight people telling us what's best for us [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=12#16246133] (it's under the second quote).
I don't really have to indulge your argument on whether this is a good thing or not, but let me put it this way: in this post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=7#16241470], I posit that the gaming industry sees straight white males as the only demographic worth considering. To the gaming industry, the LGBT crowd is invisible. When we go to regular cons (or stay at home because regular cons are unappealing/uncomfortable), we are tacitly reinforcing the image that we do not exist. One good thing that might come out of this con is the industry taking notice of how many of us there are, and how viable a market we are. A girl gamer con might have the same results for women, and so on.
But this indulgence aside, it's frankly none of your business. As I state before in the post I link above, straight people who are concerned about equality should start listening to us instead of telling us what to do.
This thread is a wonderful example of how the internet on a baseline level does not understand its own insensitivity and bigotry.
The point made in the comic is that sometimes it's nice to be in a place where you know you belong. You know people there are like you, and won't judge you for who you are.
A gay gamer's convention serves a double purpose.
It allows gay people (who in this case are also gamers) to get together in a single place and celebrate one of their favorite pastimes. And at the same time, they can connect with people and feel secure, because they're in a place where they know they can be completely open about themselves, with no one casting shifty glances in their direction, or saying unkind things behind their back or to their face. It's just an extension of the purpose of conventions in general. People with common interests getting a chance to spend some time with like-mined people in a fun environment.
Is this Con banning non-gay people from attending? (Answer: NO)
If the gay culture is not your thing, then give the convention a pass. All these complaints almost feel like people are afraid that having too many conventions will somehow deplete the non-renewable convention resource! (Hint: it won't, you can have a theoretical infinite number of conventions with infinite themes, given enough geek critical mass)
Discussing whether there is a need for this convention or not is exactly the same thing detractors of videogames or comics argue regarding those conventions. Just because you don't get it, it doesn't mean it's worthless.
I think it is less a issue of to many conventions and more a question of whether intentional segregation is really a good idea. To be honest I think the idea of having "Gay culture" is a terrible idea cause it implies that you are different and should be treated differently. To me if you are gay all it means is your interested in the same sex sexually and that is it nothing more nothing less. Gay culture strikes me as sorta stupid mostly just because basing your entire culture around your sexuality is very shallow if not incredibly boring. Your sexuality is only a tiny part of what defines anyone as a individual.
I mean to have separate events or places for people when it comes to sex and dating etc makes a good deal of sense but that isn't what a gaming con is. Either way though what ever makes people happy if your in a area where people are extremely bigoted I would imagine getting away would be much higher on the list of desires and I speak mostly out of what I am used to here. Around here nobody really cares about this, The whole issue sorta stopped being a thing with the majority of the population here almost a decade ago.
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