On Gaymers and Cons

[Darken12]

I think it is less a issue of to many conventions and more a question of whether intentional segregation is really a good idea. To be honest I think the idea of having "Gay culture" is a terrible idea cause it implies that you are different and should be treated differently. To me if you are gay all it means is your interested in the same sex sexually and that is it nothing more nothing less. Gay culture strikes me as sorta stupid mostly just because basing your entire culture around your sexuality is very shallow if not incredibly boring. Your sexuality is only a tiny part of what defines anyone as a individual.

I mean to have separate events or places for people when it comes to sex and dating etc makes a good deal of sense but that isn't what a gaming con is. Either way though what ever makes people happy if your in a area where people are extremely bigoted I would imagine getting away would be much higher on the list of desires and I speak mostly out of what I am used to here. Around here nobody really cares about this, The whole issue sorta stopped being a thing with the majority of the population here almost a decade ago.

2 and 3 posts above you, me and Spot1990 tackled this. In the interest of seeing how long can I make a self-linkception, I will link you to both posts. Or you can scroll up, your choice.

Spot1990 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=13#16246618]. Me [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=13#16246538].

 

[aba1]

I think it is less a issue of to many conventions and more a question of whether intentional segregation is really a good idea. To be honest I think the idea of having "Gay culture" is a terrible idea cause it implies that you are different and should be treated differently. To me if you are gay all it means is your interested in the same sex sexually and that is it nothing more nothing less. Gay culture strikes me as sorta stupid mostly just because basing your entire culture around your sexuality is very shallow if not incredibly boring. Your sexuality is only a tiny part of what defines anyone as a individual.

I mean to have separate events or places for people when it comes to sex and dating etc makes a good deal of sense but that isn't what a gaming con is. Either way though what ever makes people happy if your in a area where people are extremely bigoted I would imagine getting away would be much higher on the list of desires and I speak mostly out of what I am used to here. Around here nobody really cares about this, The whole issue sorta stopped being a thing with the majority of the population here almost a decade ago.

2 and 3 posts above you, me and Spot1990 tackled this. In the interest of seeing how long can I make a self-linkception, I will link you to both posts. Or you can scroll up, your choice.

Spot1990 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=13#16246618]. Me [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=13#16246538].

I was looking at spots post there and some very valid points for sure which I think are mostly only as valid as the place the convention is being held at so still very valid. Like I said before if your in a area where there are a lot of bigots this convention makes a lot more sense but I don't know where it is and if it is in a area like where I live it seems like it would be more pointless and cause more harm than good. At the end of the day I don't really care, my only concern if for the future and that rather than nobody caring people will instead just separate themselves into groups I could be right I could be wrong all we can do is wait and see. You do see this nature when it comes to skin colour and even between men and women often and both sets of groups had very similar movements. Ahhh I might be just over thinking these things at the end of the day all I care about is that everyone gets along and is happy so what ev's.

 

[Darken12]

I was looking at spots post there and some very valid points for sure which I think are mostly only as valid as the place the convention is being held at so still very valid. Like I said before if your in a area where there are a lot of bigots this convention makes a lot more sense but I don't know where it is and if it is in a area like where I live it seems like it would be more pointless and cause more harm than good. At the end of the day I don't really care, my only concern if for the future and that rather than nobody caring people will instead just separate themselves into groups I could be right I could be wrong all we can do is wait and see. You do see this nature when it comes to skin colour and even between men and women often and both sets of groups had very similar movements. Ahhh I might be just over thinking these things at the end of the day all I care about is that everyone gets along and is happy so what ev's.

The thing is (and I will never tire of saying it over and over again): it's none of your business. Allow me to set up an algorithm for straight people:

Is it an LGBT issue? If not ==> Use another algorithm.
If yes ==> Are you LGBT? If yes ==> You can say whatever you want.
If not ==> Is this going to meaningfully and directly affect you in any way? If yes ==> You can say your piece.
If not ==> Do you have something nice, positive and/or supportive to say about it? If yes ==> Speak away.
If not ==> Shut. Up.

Captcha: fall guy. I don't know Captcha, I always saw myself as a winter guy.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

No. If I rip on a straight guy, there's a very real possibility (depending on where I am located geographically) that he's gonna get his straight bros and beat me up.

90% of the gay men I know are in better shape than the straight men I know, and are potentially even more likely to fight physically against a gay basher.

Either way, that's not what I'm saying.

I was saying that you guys got mad because I referenced obnoxiously, unnecessarily flamboyant homosexuals. You said that they would be "tired of that attitude".

Listen, I know some really nice bros. They're obnoxious, they go to Seaside all the time, drink Keystone Light, and pick up oompa-loompa's at the club, but they're the nicest people ever.

They feel as though they are constantly segregated against and hated because of who they are.

Is that really what it is?

No. Everyone hates them because they're fucking obnoxious and in your face about it.

I dislike obnoxiously, unnecessarily flamboyant homosexuals as much as I hate obnoxiously aggressive, chauvinistic bros. Not for the nouns, but for the adjectives that describe them. You dig?

And then the police is going to look the other way because I started it and the f*g just got what he deserved.

Haha what kind of horrible world do you live in? This never* happens. As a matter of fact, like women, I would argue that homosexuals are more likely to win an assault case because they are generally viewed as victims.

It's not like homosexual assault is even REMOTELY common anymore either, but please keep pretending it is so everyone will feel bad for homosexuals. Yeah, it fucking happens, but the lowlives who assault homosexuals for being gay are more of a symptom of poverty than a symptom of prejudice.

There's an actual legal defence called "gay panic" which excuses assailants (almost always straight men) for inflicting violence on LGBT people because the victim "made untoward advances" or somehow made the attack justifiable by virtue of being LGBT.

You can claim gay panic just like you can claim temporary insanity. It NEVER* works.

Although, I don't think temporary insanity should be admissible in court for ANY assault or murder, but what do I know?

Let me put it this way: you don't get to decide if a word is suitable for the LGBT community or not. That's the business of the LGBT community. You may have the idealistic desire to see us all united, but that doesn't mean squat when you're not part of the LGBT community.

The LGBT community is the most full of itself group I've ever had to personally deal with.

The majority of LGBTers I know are making things worse for the average homosexual by making everything super offensive to them and thus distressing the average straight person when they are around homosexuals.

You wanna know why Dave Chappelle or Django Unchained are such great things for how we view racism, or why Wolfenstein and Inglorious Basterds were so great for how we view WWII?

Because it "bastardizes" those concepts, turns them into jokes from the past, and gives us all a common ground to look at these segregation as something of the past. Instead of going out and FIGHTING MILITANTLY, they take it in stride and admit that IT'S OVER.

The word "******" used to be an insult for old women. The word changed to refer to homosexuals in a time of severe homosexual bigotry.

[HEADING=2]THAT TIME IS OVER[/HEADING]

IT'S GENERALLY ACCEPTED THAT YOU SHOULDN'T CARE WHAT GENDER OR SEXUALITY SOMEONE IS.

A FUCKING HUUUGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DO NOT SEGREGATE BASED ON SEXUALITY OR AT THE VERY LEAST BELIEVE IT IS WRONG TO DO SO.

THE FIGHT IS OVER.

STOP FIGHTING.

YOU'RE MAKING IT WORSE.

See, most people don't care what gender or sexuality you are until you SHOVE IT DOWN THEIR THROATS, GET IN THEIR FACE AND SAY, "LOOK AT ME, I'M [blank], GOT A FUCKING PROBLEM?"

The only problem I have is that you won't get out of my fucking face, you know what I'm saying?

(Hint: It's a metaphor for having gay-only groups for events that have ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY NOTHING to do with sexuality.)

Oh yeah... and the word "******"... It's changed again. Now it is an even more general term to refer to someone who's being an obnoxious prick. The word "******" doesn't mean gay anymore to practically ANYONE, but the gay community CONSTANTLY reminds you it, and it will stay that way until the LGBT can finally accept that the word has changed. It's funny, the word "sissy" was an insult for gays around the same time as "******", but no one gives a fuck when you use that word.

You don't see handicapped people revolting when people use the word "lame", do you?

What's juvenile is that STILL it has to be explained that this is not segregation because people are still screaming that it is with no reason. Over and over again, as it has been done over the past ten pages.

Segregation n. - The action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart. (Merriam-Webster)

I didn't scream anything, but I understand how ignorance can make people scream sometimes.

*: Almost never for you literalists.

 

[Blind Sight]

How is this a goddamn issue? It's a voluntary association that is not actively discriminating against people the event isn't tailored towards. Also from what I can gather the event will have gaming panels discussing topics that aren't likely to appear at normal conventions and are of particular interest to sexual minorities: http://gaymerconnect.com/panels

Another medium, film, has been doing this for freaking decades (Gay/Lesbian film festivals). Has that resulted in some kind of segregation within the film industry/culture? Of course not. I'm getting sick of this collectivist crap about 'gaming culture', as if people have some kind of cultural obligation to fulfill certain standards in order to take part.

That being said, Mr. Carter carries a certain ego-driven smugness as he preaches on his soapbox about these numerous social issues.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

Is it an LGBT issue? If not ==> Use another algorithm.
If yes ==> Are you LGBT? If yes ==> You can say whatever you want.
If not ==> Is this going to meaningfully and directly affect you in any way? If yes ==> You can say your piece.
If not ==> Do you have something nice, positive and/or supportive to say about it? If yes ==> Speak away.
If not ==> Shut. Up.

"Is it an LGBT issue?"

Not really... it's more of a segregation within the gaming community issue, but it has relevance to gays and trannys so let's continue.

"Are you LGBT, if yes, you can say whatever you want."

Um... I know this seems to be how the LGBT works, but no... you cant. As a matter of fact, I believe the LGBT community says some really stupid things that hurt the gay community and make me dislike the group.

I like animals, but PETA is a bunch of stupid assholes who want there to be a problem so they have something to fight. So they create rallys and protests hoping to GOD someone will come by and argue with them so they can feel like they achieved something.

Sound familiar?

"Is this going to meaningfully and directly affect you in any way?"
"Do you have something nice, positive and/or supportive to say about it?"

This is a forum. A forum is a place to convey your opinions and discuss things. It's not a place to jerk each other off and say how right everyone else is.

I disagree with you. Get the fuck over it, I'm allowed to.

Objectively, I think this convention is a fucking stupid idea and the word gaymer in and of itself generates more hate than you would ever find at a con (practically none what-so-ever).

You know, a lot of people don't like me because of the way I look. I'm a big boy though, and I'll go to a convention regardless of that because I don't care what people think. I'm not gonna make a new convention because I can't handle other people "looking at me funny".

"Shut. Up."

no u

EDIT: I think the real problem is the topic at hand has been skewed.

I don't think most of the people arguing against it care that much that it exists.

Do I think it's a stupid idea?

Fuck yeah.

But I'm not gonna go start a rally against it. I just think it's causing more harm than good.

 

[aba1]

I was looking at spots post there and some very valid points for sure which I think are mostly only as valid as the place the convention is being held at so still very valid. Like I said before if your in a area where there are a lot of bigots this convention makes a lot more sense but I don't know where it is and if it is in a area like where I live it seems like it would be more pointless and cause more harm than good. At the end of the day I don't really care, my only concern if for the future and that rather than nobody caring people will instead just separate themselves into groups I could be right I could be wrong all we can do is wait and see. You do see this nature when it comes to skin colour and even between men and women often and both sets of groups had very similar movements. Ahhh I might be just over thinking these things at the end of the day all I care about is that everyone gets along and is happy so what ev's.

The thing is (and I will never tire of saying it over and over again): it's none of your business. Allow me to set up an algorithm for straight people:

Is it an LGBT issue? If not ==> Use another algorithm.
If yes ==> Are you LGBT? If yes ==> You can say whatever you want.
If not ==> Is this going to meaningfully and directly affect you in any way? If yes ==> You can say your piece.
If not ==> Do you have something nice, positive and/or supportive to say about it? If yes ==> Speak away.
If not ==> Shut. Up.

Captcha: fall guy. I don't know Captcha, I always saw myself as a winter guy.

Well that was immature... You don't even know anything about my sexuality but you assume I am straight then you proceed to tell me it is none of my business which I would agree with you if it wasn't a full on movement with a very in your face attitude and even all that aside it could effect any number of people directly tied to me including my friends family even my own children even if I was straight. So ya I feel it is my business after all if this is going to be a public thing than it effects everyone directly or indirectly. It very much so matters to me how people in my community and society and culture treat each other, I don't think anyone should be subject to pressure or obligation to be in any group or feel like they are predefined to act or be any way they do not necessarily want to be.

Now as I said before I don't care if you disagree with me people are entitled to their opinions all I ask is you be open to my ideas as much as I am open to yours. If you aren't willing to consider anyone else's opinions there is no point is discussing things with you. Me personally I refuse to let myself simply be told what is right or wrong I want to discuss and consider possibilities good or bad rather than remain ignorant.

 

[Zen Toombs]

Feminism has a great concept called "the kyriarchy" (from the Greek word kyrios, meaning Lord or Master), which is a way to analyse our current society as a system of interlocking oppression. In it, one integrates racism, sexism, homophobia, classism and all the other -isms and -phobias as a network-like pyramid of oppression. What you're saying amounts to "the kyriarchy is okay because most of us are oppressed one way or another". And that's just tragic, really, because it's the best way to keep us all feeling feeling awful and keeping our society from improving.

Just because most of us are victims of the kyriarchy in one way or another doesn't mean that we should put each other down. It means we should help each other instead.

Helping each other is overrated. We should all just go about our business, Mad Max style!

I don't mean to preach to the choir, but that's really well said. Keep on being awesome, Darken!

PS: Oh LORD has this thread continued to explode.

 

[Darken12]

90% of the gay men I know are in better shape than the straight men I know, and are potentially even more likely to fight physically against a gay basher.

Usually hate crimes are committed in groups. Very rarely assailants act alone. They also often have weapons. A gay basher doesn't want a fair fight. They want to inflict a one-sided beat down.

I dislike obnoxiously, unnecessarily flamboyant homosexuals as much as I hate obnoxiously aggressive, chauvinistic bros. Not for the nouns, but for the adjectives that describe them. You dig?

The problem is that you're not saying "flamboyant people", you're specifically saying "flamboyant gay people".

Haha what kind of horrible world do you live in? This never* happens. As a matter of fact, like women, I would argue that homosexuals are more likely to win an assault case because they are generally viewed as victims.

It's not like homosexual assault is even REMOTELY common anymore either, but please keep pretending it is so everyone will feel bad for homosexuals. Yeah, it fucking happens, but the lowlives who assault homosexuals for being gay are more of a symptom of poverty than a symptom of prejudice.

I'm not from the US, but a quick google search brings this up: http://www.examiner.com/article/mayor-police-chief-make-promises-to-portland-s-gay-community

Portland has plenty of cases of the police looking away. I'm sure if you took more than the 14 seconds I spent on that google search, you'd find an equivalent for most states in the US.

You can claim gay panic just like you can claim temporary insanity. It NEVER* works.

It works [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense]. Repeatedly. Do a google search and investigate further.

THE FIGHT IS OVER.

STOP FIGHTING.

YOU'RE MAKING IT WORSE.

This is exactly the problem. It's not your fight, and yet you want it to end because it inconveniences you or you disapprove of it. Let me put it in the most polite way I can: Let the LGBT people decide when the fight is over. That's the reason people get so bristly: because we already have straight people in the government making decisions that affect our lives, the entertainment industry is aimed at straight people (where LGBT people are either erased or stereotyped), and we have to deal with casual, subtle or overt homophobia in our daily lives, and on top of that, we have to be quiet because we're bothering the straight people. And we are supposed to accept the wisdom of the straights when it comes to equality. They have to tell us when we've reached equality, when the fight is over and when we're being too much 'in your face' about ourselves. Guess we're just too gosh-darned stupid to think and decide for ourselves on matters that pertain our community. Gosh darn it. Why did we choose to be LGBT?

"Is it an LGBT issue?"

Not really... it's more of a segregation within the gaming community issue, but it has relevance to gays and trannys so let's continue.

Oh gee. I wonder how my dumb, LGBT eyes missed the obvious fact that wanting an LGBT-focused con was not an LGBT issue. Gosh-darn my feeble LGBT brain.

"Are you LGBT, if yes, you can say whatever you want."

Um... I know this seems to be how the LGBT works, but no... you cant. As a matter of fact, I believe the LGBT community says some really stupid things that hurt the gay community and make me dislike the group.

I like animals, but PETA is a bunch of stupid assholes who want there to be a problem so they have something to fight. So they create rallys and protests hoping to GOD someone will come by and argue with them so they can feel like they achieved something.

Sound familiar?

No. It does not. Because PETA is not made up of animals. They are not a group whose interests are focused on themselves, so the comparison cannot apply. The LGBT community's main focus is issues that concern itself. That's why I keep telling straight people that it's none of their business, because they are not part of the group nor of the group's interests.

"Is this going to meaningfully and directly affect you in any way?"
"Do you have something nice, positive and/or supportive to say about it?"

This is a forum. A forum is a place to convey your opinions and discuss things. It's not a place to jerk each other off and say how right everyone else is.

I disagree with you. Get the fuck over it, I'm allowed to.

That's fine, just don't expect your opinion to be taken seriously or heard when you're not making the effort to be respectful. All the LGBT people and straight allies in this thread have been patiently explaining things to straight people so that we can all better understand each other. But there comes a point where if someone doesn't want to listen to you and all they want to do is rant about the evils of the homosexuals, you need to tune them out and stop giving them respect and consideration they haven't given to you.

Well that was immature... You don't even know anything about my sexuality but you assume I am straight then you proceed to tell me it is none of my business which I would agree with you if it wasn't a full on movement with a very in your face attitude and even all that aside it could effect any number of people directly tied to me including my friends family even my own children even if I was straight. So ya I feel it is my business after all if this is going to be a public thing than it effects everyone directly or indirectly. It very much so matters to me how people in my community and society and culture treat each other, I don't think anyone should be subject to pressure or obligation to be in any group or feel like they are predefined to act or be any way they do not necessarily want to be.

Now as I said before I don't care if you disagree with me people are entitled to their opinions all I ask is you be open to my ideas as much as I am open to yours. If you aren't willing to consider anyone else's opinions there is no point is discussing things with you. Me personally I refuse to let myself simply be told what is right or wrong I want to discuss and consider possibilities good or bad rather than remain ignorant.

Well, I'm sorry if I mistook you for straight, but it's the truth. It might be a movement that draws many people, but it doesn't affect straight people at all. It's our business, not theirs. If they want to come, the con is open for them, nobody's going to discriminate. The thing is, we need to draw the line around our safe spaces and discussions. We need to stop the avalanche of entitled straight people and say "sorry, but your opinion on this particular subject doesn't matter" because it's the truth. We've been playing nice from the start, letting straight people decide practically every aspect in our lives, and we've had to fight tooth and nail for every accomplishment. And if straight people can't understand (can't even be bothered to try to understand) then that's too bad for them. They need to start accepting the fact that there will be spaces where they will not be welcome or heard.

As a feminist ally and a staunch supporter of people of colour, I understand that there are spaces where I am not welcome because of my gender and/or race. And I respect that, because I understand the need for those spaces. This is not a bad thing. A lot of times, one of the best things I can do for women as a feminist ally is to let them decide things for themselves without inserting my male opinion on the subject, even when it's something that might theoretically affect me or concern me. Again, it's a matter or respect.

Feminism has a great concept called "the kyriarchy" (from the Greek word kyrios, meaning Lord or Master), which is a way to analyse our current society as a system of interlocking oppression. In it, one integrates racism, sexism, homophobia, classism and all the other -isms and -phobias as a network-like pyramid of oppression. What you're saying amounts to "the kyriarchy is okay because most of us are oppressed one way or another". And that's just tragic, really, because it's the best way to keep us all feeling feeling awful and keeping our society from improving.

Just because most of us are victims of the kyriarchy in one way or another doesn't mean that we should put each other down. It means we should help each other instead.

Helping each other is overrated. We should all just go about our business, Mad Max style!

I don't mean to preach to the choir, but that's really well said. Keep on being awesome, Darken!

PS: Oh LORD has this thread continued to explode.

Thank you, thank you, I am all flustered. But I'm glad I see a surprising number of people who actually get it, too. I frankly expected the gamer culture to be far worse. I'm glad to see people chiming in with support as well. It's uplifting.

It has exploded in ways you cannot even imagine.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

You know, a lot of people don't like me because of the way I look. I'm a big boy though, and I'll go to a convention regardless of that because I don't care what people think.

Did you actually just compare abuse, being legally discriminated against and every other issue LGBT people face to "people don't like me because of the way I look"?

I'm not gonna make a new convention because I can't handle other people "looking at me funny".

Looking at you funny? You have to be a troll. You must be. You can't honestly believe the worst thing that happens to gay people is that people look at them funny.

Oh and guess what, they're going to conventions too. Look at the list of panels. The point of this is to create an LGBT-centric con. Discussing issues that affect them.

The point of the Gaymer con is to discuss LGBT issues?

What the fuck does that have to do with games?

Why not just have a gay rights rally.

You can't honestly believe the worst thing that happens to gay people is that people look at them funny.

I never said that.

At all.

However that is the worst thing that happens to gays at gaming conventions, and it never really happens. As a matter of fact, I've NEVER seen any gay bashing at a con. I've seen nerds fighting over games, but that's it.

I go to a lot of conventions for a lot of things, and they are very accepting communities.

Also, LGBT has changed from being initials for deviant sexualities and gender identities to the LGBTQ... an oversensitive activist group that fights for stupid shit and makes it a point to shove their sexuality down everyone's throats. I mean, come on... they added a Q for people who don't know their sexual identity. Why?

What is the point of fighting for all of this shit that has little to no bearing on the homosexual accepting culture that we live in today?

Why is the LGBTQ so adamant about their fear-mongering bullshit when gay hate crimes are steadily declining anyway at an all time low?

They make it seem like we're in a world where a gay man can't walk down the street without being judged and spat on by the masses, when most gay men do perfectly well for themselves.

The LGBTQ has everyone on edge and thinking that they have to either fight for their sexuality, or feel bad that they are a straight male and be super cautious around anyone else.

That, my friend, is the final hurdle that needs to be crossed before homosexuality can finally not be an issue. As long as LGBTQ activism exists to force issues on society, homosexuals will always be looked at differently.

Homosexuals and transexuals are people who generally don't want to be considered different for their sexuality choices.

Having huge conventions with big signs everywhere that say THIS IS A CONVENTION FOR GAYS is a big step backwards in normalizing sexuality choices.

 

[Darken12]

Having huge conventions with big signs everywhere that say THIS IS A CONVENTION FOR GAYS is a big step backwards in normalizing sexuality choices.

I don't know how else to say it: it's not up to you to decide. If you care so much about equality and the future, listen to what this bedevilled LGBT crowd is saying instead of spewing ignorance from your mouth. If you don't care about equality, then stop talking about whether the actions of the bedevilled LGBT community are affecting equality positively or negatively.

It's that simple.

 

[Orekoya]

What's juvenile is that STILL it has to be explained that this is not segregation because people are still screaming that it is with no reason. Over and over again, as it has been done over the past ten pages.

Segregation n. - The action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart. (Merriam-Webster)

Thank you for quoting the dictionary since it saves me from doing so. Nobody is being barred entry and no effort is being made to set people apart. Therefore this is not segregation. As my quote states. Thank you again for supporting my point.

I didn't scream anything, but I understand how ignorance can make people scream sometimes.

THAT TIME IS OVER

IT'S GENERALLY ACCEPTED THAT YOU SHOULDN'T CARE WHAT GENDER OR SEXUALITY SOMEONE IS.

A FUCKING HUUUGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DO NOT SEGREGATE BASED ON SEXUALITY OR AT THE VERY LEAST BELIEVE IT IS WRONG TO DO SO.

THE FIGHT IS OVER.

STOP FIGHTING.

YOU'RE MAKING IT WORSE.

Yes, I can see that.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

The LGBT community is the most full of itself group I've ever had to personally deal with.

And here, ladies and gentlemen is overly defensive homophobe #252462.

My best friend on this retarded planet is full blown gay...

And he hates LGBT activists and agrees with me on most of this.

THAT TIME IS OVER. IT'S GENERALLY ACCEPTED THAT YOU SHOULDN'T CARE WHAT GENDER OR SEXUALITY SOMEONE IS.

Like fuck it is. ... We haven't even begun to make the kind of progress necessary to say that.

Um, yes. We actually have, don't let the fear mongering psychos here let you think otherwise.

Oh yeah... and the word "******"... It's changed again.

Again, like fuck it has. "******" is still the horrible epithet against LGBT folks that it has been for a long time.

It's a word, and it only means what you want it to mean. I've had a nice, long conversation with aforementioned friend about this, and he disagreed initially, but we talked about it for a while and he changed his opinion.

The thing that got him was that the word "lame" is used super casually to mean boring/stupid, and NO ONE thinks about it as being a slur for the handicapped until someone mentions it.

I'm not from the US, but a quick google search brings this up: http://www.examiner.com/article/mayor-police-chief-make-promises-to-portland-s-gay-community

Portland has plenty of cases of the police looking away.

That article proves that crimes do happen.

What an amazing insight!

However, it DOES show how far the public and politics have come in acceptance of homosexuality.

You can claim gay panic just like you can claim temporary insanity. It NEVER* works.

It works [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense]. Repeatedly. Do a google search and investigate further.

Hey, thanks!

Not only does your link directly state that it almost never works, but I also found this [http://books.google.com/books?id=pPkRHairg3UC&pg=PA247&lpg=PA247&dq=gay+panic+defense+no+longer+admissible&source=bl&ots=2a2WesrZ38&sig=giQE8vTplI7KcImO3lNR_fvEXD0&hl=en&ei=HlWyTtjsNJObtwfZ4bDkAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false] article from Harvard with a nice amount of statistics to prove me right!

THE FIGHT IS OVER.

STOP FIGHTING.

YOU'RE MAKING IT WORSE.

This is exactly the problem. It's not your fight, and yet you want it to end because it inconveniences you or you disapprove of it. Let me put it in the most polite way I can: Let the LGBT people decide when the fight is over. That's the reason people get so bristly: because we already have straight people in the government making decisions that affect our lives, the entertainment industry is aimed at straight people (where LGBT people are either erased or stereotyped), and we have to deal with casual, subtle or overt homophobia in our daily lives, and on top of that, we have to be quiet because we're bothering the straight people. And we are supposed to accept the wisdom of the straights when it comes to equality. They have to tell us when we've reached equality, when the fight is over and when we're being too much 'in your face' about ourselves. Guess we're just too gosh-darned stupid to think and decide for ourselves on matters that pertain our community. Gosh darn it. Why did we choose to be LGBT?

See that trigger at the end?

That last insane thing you said implying that I said you chose to be gay and that gay people are stupid... which, you know... I didn't...

That proves almost every. single. thing. I'm saying.

You WANT me to be anti-gay so you can rise above like a god-damn phoenix of altruism and love. Pathetic.

You said it yourself. I want the fight to be over, and you want it to keep going.

Think about that.

"Is it an LGBT issue?"

Not really... it's more of a segregation within the gaming community issue

Oh gee. I wonder how my dumb, LGBT eyes missed the obvious fact that wanting an LGBT-focused con was not an LGBT issue. Gosh-darn my feeble LGBT brain.

Wow dude...

Again with the implying that I think gays are stupid.

Please, stop proving me right.

"Is this going to meaningfully and directly affect you in any way?"
"Do you have something nice, positive and/or supportive to say about it?"

This is a forum. A forum is a place to convey your opinions and discuss things. It's not a place to jerk each other off and say how right everyone else is.

I disagree with you. Get the fuck over it, I'm allowed to.

That's fine, just don't expect your opinion to be taken seriously or heard when you're not making the effort to be respectful.

You're the disrespectful asshole here.

You just accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a bigot.

Having huge conventions with big signs everywhere that say THIS IS A CONVENTION FOR GAYS is a big step backwards in normalizing sexuality choices.

I don't know how else to say it: it's not up to you to decide. If you care so much about equality and the future, listen to what this bedevilled LGBT crowd is saying instead of spewing ignorance from your mouth. If you don't care about equality, then stop talking about whether the actions of the bedevilled LGBT community are affecting equality positively or negatively.

Wtf are you talking about?

I'm not being ignorant at all, what I said is 100 percent true.

Try actually bringing up, you know, some logic to prove me wrong or something.

Thank you for quoting the dictionary since it saves me from doing so. Nobody is being barred entry and no effort is being made to prevent set people apart. Therefore this is not segregation. As my quote states. Thank you again for supporting my point.

Segregation n. - The action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart. (Merriam-Webster)

I can do this all day.

EDIT: Everyone keeps saying that the Gaymer's are segregating themselves. This is true.

Thus this is segregation.

Segregation is when you acknowledge a difference between things and separate one group.

Do you see how that applies to this?

look at the list of panels, it's about gay issues in gaming.

Which should be discussed at a real convention as it is a gaming issue.

However that is the worst thing that happens to gays at gaming conventions, and it never really happens. As a matter of fact, I've NEVER seen any gay bashing at a con. I've seen nerds fighting over games, but that's it.

Oh well then obviously it doesn't happen.

Everyone we can relax now, TomLikesGuitar has never seen any gay bashing which means it's obviously all stopped now.

Have you? Has anyone here actually seen sexuality hate crimes at a convention?

No?

Because it's not an issue.

The homosexual accepting culture that doesn't allow gay marriage or adoption, where homosexuality can practically destroy a persons political aspirations and where hate crimes against homosexuals have risen (admittedly very slightly but that's still fucking awful) since the 90's

Homosexuality doesn't destroy a person's political aspirations.

Gay marriage is like marijuana legality. It's inevitable but antiquated laws are hard to strip. People who don't give a fuck about gay marriage will fight against it because it's their political affiliation's side.

The adoption issue is the same.

And please, 90% of hate crimes go unreported so those numbers don't mean shit other than what the author of the article wanted to say.

Edit: Sources [http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/1226-Factsheet-homophobia-hate-speech-crime_EN.pdf] for [http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/fbi-releases-annual-hate-crime-statistics-publication-for-2010] the [http://www.pridesource.com/article.html?article=29687] last [http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentaries/166340946.html?refer=y] statement [http://articles.latimes.com/1999/nov/29/local/me-38622]

They make it seem like we're in a world where a gay man can't walk down the street without being judged and spat on by the masses, when most gay men do perfectly well for themselves.

Define do perfectly well for themselves. Marry the person they love? Have a family? Jesus christ, that's like the bare minimum you'd imagine for a good life.

And most people agree with you. This shit takes time though.

Really? The final hurdle isn't any of the rights gay people are denied or any of the abuses they face? The only thing left now is for homosexuals to shut up?

No, the only thing left is for activists to stop making things worse. The rights "issue" is inevitably going to change as the older generations die out.

No it isn't. It shows that LGBT people are a large demographic and worth considering in the severely hetero-focused gaming industry.

First off, they aren't the main demographic, and never will be. Games will always be severely hetero-focused like most entertainment. Welcome to life.

And second, the number of gay gamers isn't a secret. Independent developers (especially Japanese ones) do an amazing job of integrating homosexuality into games.

Bethesda does an amazing job with Arcade Gannon, and even Mass Effect did it. Mass Effect kind of made it into too big of an issue though and it turned into a stupid conversation about making everyone in every game gay, which is obviously retarded.

TL;DR

Gaymer is an unnecessary and stupid term, and I believe its existence is making things worse for the average gay man.

You guys can have the last words, but I'd like to state for the record that I love everyone and want to live in a peaceful world where all races and genders can get along.

The only thing that bothers me more than soapbox preachers is segregation.

 

[Jessta]

it sort of feels like a gaymer con is a weird thing to have since gamers and gays are already sort of two different sub cultures. Like they are already welcome to come to regular conventions and be gay, do they have something special that happens at gay only conventions? Like is there a genre of specifically homosexual games that sort of overflow with gayness and non gay's can't enjoy? I guess what I'm saying here is I don't really see the connection between sexuality and games so I don't really understand the need for a gay only game convention.

Not to mention there's the whole point that this is a form of discriminating against people based on sexuality, if they 'gay' society can say no one straight can come to their party why is it the 'straight' society can't do the same? It's sort of a whole can of worms that doesn't really need to... be there?

 

[Shikua]

it sort of feels like a gaymer con is a weird thing to have since gamers and gays are already sort of two different sub cultures. Like they are already welcome to come to regular conventions and be gay, do they have something special that happens at gay only conventions? Like is there a genre of specifically homosexual games that sort of overflow with gayness and non gay's can't enjoy? I guess what I'm saying here is I don't really see the connection between sexuality and games so I don't really understand the need for a gay only game convention.

Not to mention there's the whole point that this is a form of discriminating against people based on sexuality, if they 'gay' society can say no one straight can come to their party why is it the 'straight' society can't do the same? It's sort of a whole can of worms that doesn't really need to... be there?

First off, it's not gay-exclusive, it's gay focused. Meaning straight people can come, no problems, but they aren't the target demographic.

The reason people want it is multifaceted. It has to do with how gay people are treated within the gaming culture. Gaming conventions are heterocentric, and gamer culture is full of anti-gay sentiment, both intended and unintended. A gay focused convention just helps provide a place gay gamers can feel more comfortable, and feel less likely to suffer from discrimination, both active and passive.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Simple exercise for straight people who don't understand the appeal of Gaymercon: go there. Take note of how you feel in an environment specifically geared toward people whose sexuality is different from your own. You may notice you feel a bit uncomfortable because you're in the minority, even though (hopefully) nobody's being overtly or intentionally hostile to you. That's how gay people feel at "normal" cons. Is it any wonder they want a place where they can hang out with fellow gamers without that niggling discomfort prodding at the back of their mind?

Are you gay and forever uncomfortable? How much does a gay game convention differ from the more established conventions? And in what ways?

I obviously can't provide evidence for this, but as long as the convention is still focused on games, and not gay fan art and fan fiction(which I know it's not) then I think I would be plenty comfortable. At least as comfortable as someone who generally doesn't like crowds can be.

I've said before that I'm not bothered by any of this. I'm genuinly curious about how different it would be.

Against my better judgement I'm going to jump in and second this post. I've had gay friends in the past, and gay roommates as well. I was constantly in an environment where people's sexuality was different from my own. It didn't make me feel uncomfortable. The reason why I never felt uncomfortable is because the environments I was always in were never explicitly aimed at a sexuality. Now I've never been to one, but from what I understand a gaming convention isn't exactly a place where a sexuality of any kind is a driving force behind the meet-up or the content there. It's a convention about gaming...

If the gay, lesbian, and bisexual community want to have their own convention, then fine, but to me it seems like interjecting a specific sexual orientation into a convention about something completely unrelated muddles up the point of the convention in the first place, gay or straight. If you care about games, and you want to go to a gaming convention, why does the majority of the people's sexuality matter?

That's why I think this entire comic is sort of a nonissue. I'd also like to say that I've only seen a couple of these comics, but if these guys never get off their soapbox, then I won't be looking into any more of them. The smug tone of it all just turns me off.

Thanks.

I also agree about the smug/know-it-all tone that alot of this stuff has, it's bothersome to me. I don't need, or want to be told how it is and how I should feel about it. I stopped watching Bob when broke out his soapbox and all.

Are you gay and forever uncomfortable? How much does a gay game convention differ from the more established conventions? And in what ways?

I obviously can't provide evidence for this, but as long as the convention is still focused on games, and not gay fan art and fan fiction(which I know it's not) then I think I would be plenty comfortable. At least as comfortable as someone who generally doesn't like crowds can be.

I've said before that I'm not bothered by any of this. I'm genuinly curious about how different it would be.

I'm not actually gay, but I was basing my comment on things my gay friends and sibling have told me. I do, however, have some similar experience; I'm no stranger to being the only atheist in a room full of Christians, for example, and it can get stressful at times, especially since I have to watch what I say because I'm not "out" to all my Christian friends. As to what would be different at a gay con, I don't know exactly, but I still say the best way to find out is to go to one and see for yourself.

Alrighty.

Are all of these people young? It doesn't make much sense to me unless these people are all young, and that-that would be the source of them not being sure of themselves.

 

[mechalynx]

You know what? I just came home from a string of awesome parties, and am not exactly sober. So instead of making an ass out of myself on facebook where all my friends can see and laugh at me, I thought I'd go to a random forum and unleash my drunken stupid there, on a topic that can really rile me up.

And Escapist delivered in spades.

I am not gay (that I am aware of). I cannot ever claim to understand the plight that gays had and still have to bear. However, I do not feel that there is any particular need for a Gaymer Con. Until this day I believed that gaming was for everyone. As far as I'm concerned everyone is fucking welcome.

A Gaymer Con rubs me the wrong way for the same reason as the Pride parade in Stockholm did two years ago. Two years ago it wa sdecided that there would be no admission fee and everyone was welcome. Suddenly there were all these people complaining that the pride parade was watered down now that all these hetero plebs were allowed to mingle for free. That was the reason that my friend and her girlfriend chose not to attend.

Or maybe it's all about a Con that celebates gay themes in the game industry that is more forward in its emotional evolution than the rest of the world (wishfulthinkingwishfulthinking). In that case, rock on, as long as my hetero ass is welcome.

Dunno, I've had way too may drinks to be rational about this. My point is, don't shut people out.