On Gaymers and Cons
- Thread starter The Wooster
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The Last Panel is REALLY out of touch considering we moving into the age of unisex bathrooms so there will be no need to make assumptions about one's gender. Everyone keeps forgetting about the T in LGBT.
I wouldn't say that, At some colleges they are still implementing them in large groups, not just for visiting family or people who are. I believe ASU has a couple set up.matthew_lane said:
Hi there! I'm lesbian, and I can't stand the conventional model of beauty which is usually aggressively selected for booth babe modelling. I find over-done hair, glossy and brightly-colored lips, excessive makeup, brightly-colored long false fingernails, clothing which exaggerates the breasts and butt, and high-heeled shoes which push the legs and hips into a supposedly-more-shapely posture to all be aesthetically displeasing. I also find it degrading and repulsive that they are there as straight guy bait, to drag attention to a product. It demeans them and it demeans the business that this is considered a normal behavior, and it demeans the attendees of the convention.th3dark3rsh33p said:
So yes, please do speak for only yourself.
I think the idea of "cons" is already rather deplorable, but I showed this to a gay mate of mine who's interested in gaming, and he honestly couldn't give a crap.
Then again the area we live in is rather open minded, but still, his reason is that (and I quote) "I could just go to a normal con and get the same treatment, I don't exactly advertise that I'm gay, and I'd only go if I had a bunch of friends, gay or otherwise to go with"
I slightly disagree, as people are entitled to cons such as this, but I fail to see the attraction to go to any sort of them.
If that makes sense.
It probably doesn't.
I also doubt that a profit (Which let's face it, is a big factor in this) will be made, what with rather a niche selection and target market.
Then again the area we live in is rather open minded, but still, his reason is that (and I quote) "I could just go to a normal con and get the same treatment, I don't exactly advertise that I'm gay, and I'd only go if I had a bunch of friends, gay or otherwise to go with"
I slightly disagree, as people are entitled to cons such as this, but I fail to see the attraction to go to any sort of them.
If that makes sense.
It probably doesn't.
I also doubt that a profit (Which let's face it, is a big factor in this) will be made, what with rather a niche selection and target market.
And your fine to have your opinion. I disagree that all of them are as forced and unnatural as your portrayel. My time at PAX the last few years I went, had Booth Babes, but it was rather tame. I mean they were modelling for a game but they didn't look so makeup'd up that they fall into the uncanny valley. That's at least the picture you seem to be painting. However my point was not to disagree that there were women who did feel that way, just that it wasn't all or even the vast majority such as 80%. I know just as many women who have vapid and shallow standards for relationships that are just as harmful and objectifying as the demeaning behavior who enjoy that kind of thing. Personally, at the end of the day, the girls are just making money, and I can respect that. I can also appreciate the female form in just about any state aesthetically, so yes I always do enjoy seeing a pretty woman displaying herself. I don't think it's demeaning for either of us. So long as no one is forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do, then all power to her.Novaova said:
However I was speaking for myself...so...yeah... I wasn't saying how ALL lesbians feel, just that we're people too, and we can be just as shallow and vapid as a horny teenage boy with unrealistic standards of beauty. We can also be really nice and empathetic people who want emotional and caring relationships. None of these are definitive of the title of lesbian, these are just a common traits of being every day run of the mill people, who all have their goods and bads associated with them.
Stop dividing groups based on arbitrary distinctions of one's character is what I'm trying to say. Lesbianism is irrevelent to how one acts as a person and does not dictate anything about their personality other then they are attractied to women.
etc etc etc.... I think I've made my point 3 times now and am typing just to see myself type.
Be reassured that it will happen eventually. Unfortunately, we're still in that intermediary step.Darken12 said:
That is the one very positive thing I'm assured of. So long as education on the subject exists all these things will eventually straighten up and no one will care. I don't know how long it'll be, but we've made significant progress in the last 10 years in my mind... so hopefully things are starting to go faster.Zachary Amaranth said:
While I might disagree on the con's premise, I can say this. This couldn't have been done ten years ago, and that alone is a great sign.
Fair enough. As a 18 y.o asexual male booth babes are kind of silly to me but they are also completely irrelevant. Besides the mild annoyance that they are essentially advertising for "you" there isn't much difference between booth babes and some legit cosplayers.TheRealCJ said:
Implying that hermaphrodites are the only other sex.matthew_lane said:
Also ignoring intersexed individuals.
And it always makes the difference. You can't just use the wrong terminology and claim that there's no difference between words with very different meanings.
OK, so yeah, I've read through a lot of these posts and I feel the need to add my 2 cents. And this is going to be a wide reaching response not just centralized on being a gaymer in general.
First of all..........I'm just going to be blunt. If you're not a straight ally or actual member of the non-heterosexual, non-cisgender community, please take a seat. Take a SEAT. I am TIRED of having to hear your opinions on this matter of Gaymercon. This is actually the reason why this event exists, one of the primary ones. Why there is gay pride, why there are gay ghettos and specialized gay events. Point blank, we don't want to deal with your questions 24/7. We don't want to deal with the fact you guys don't get it, and the fact we have to baby you and walk on eggshells. Sorry, but we're in the stage now where as a community, we're breaking out, we're taking a stand, and we're living our lives as we see fit. And the constant questions get tiring. Honestly. Just a day where we can be comfortable, hell, even 6 hours, where we can just be. And just exist without the spotlight would be perfect.
That's my biggest annoyance. Sometimes, it's best to just accept and not ask questions. Especially when you don't really know what you're talking about. Sit down, listen and accept. Stop questioning us. We know more than you. Straight allies know more than you. If you're *wanting* to get it, great. We'll take the time to enlighten you, to take you through that process and grow closer. But that gets tiring after a while.
Secondly, Gaymercon isn't all about flaunting or promoting non-hetero sexuality. It's about promoting games and promoting individuals who are non-mainstream and are either non-hetero or make games that are more "alternative" and not geared to..........you guessed it, straight white guys. A lot of straight people have this mentality that gay inclusion is perfect, yadda yadda. No, actually, in the gamer world and in the real world, everything still runs through straight white guys and you all DO NOT SEE IT because you don't have to deal with it and the hatred is less blatant than it has been in the past. It still exists on a major scale. The lack of acceptance is more subtle.
And when I say acceptance, I mean the ability to not just be gay, but be OPENLY gay, be OPENLY non-heterosexual, and not feel any need to be reserved. Not feel any reservation, judgment. At all. No risk of it. Where we're the normal ones. There is a big difference between accepting the fact someone is gay and outright accepting gayness. The gamer world still isn't that great towards homosexuality. Actual makers of games are starting to budge in the right direction, but hardcore gamers? Fans of gaming? Not really. I've seen tons of homophobic shit on this forum. Homophobia EXISTS people.
So why are we being condemned for wanting to avoid it instead of dealing with it upfront? Because it makes straight people feel bad? Live in our shoes. Hell, live in the shoes of a straight ally. The straight allies who get presumed as gay, and deal with much of the same abuse as out gay people do. Why SHOULD we have to deal with the constant hesitation and insecurity?
No. It's not going to happen. That's why Gaymercon is here. That's why we segregate ourselves. Actually, we don't do want to do it. We'd love acceptance. Every day straight people segregate gay people and anyone straight who supports gay rights. You don't do enough to promote inclusion, acceptance, support. You don't do enough to promote acceptance of straight people who aren't stereotypically heterosexual in behavior. You call straight people for gay rights gay. So don't expect us to be buddy buddy. Don't expect us not to have a wall up. It's not about playing victim. It's protection. And it's standing up for ourselves. If you want inclusion, you have to be inclusive. It's annoying how people want to hang out at our clubs, our parties, our social gatherings and community events, without doing the work to make things better for us. It's not enough to say "you can join in our club" aka average game events, average events in general. It's not enough. You don't need to coddle me. But to actually feel welcomed would be a great start and to RESPECT what we do deal with and empathize. Until that happens, you're going to see gay people and straight allies separating ourselves as much as every day straight people separate us. It is what it is. Don't blame us for the society you've created for yourselves.
First of all..........I'm just going to be blunt. If you're not a straight ally or actual member of the non-heterosexual, non-cisgender community, please take a seat. Take a SEAT. I am TIRED of having to hear your opinions on this matter of Gaymercon. This is actually the reason why this event exists, one of the primary ones. Why there is gay pride, why there are gay ghettos and specialized gay events. Point blank, we don't want to deal with your questions 24/7. We don't want to deal with the fact you guys don't get it, and the fact we have to baby you and walk on eggshells. Sorry, but we're in the stage now where as a community, we're breaking out, we're taking a stand, and we're living our lives as we see fit. And the constant questions get tiring. Honestly. Just a day where we can be comfortable, hell, even 6 hours, where we can just be. And just exist without the spotlight would be perfect.
That's my biggest annoyance. Sometimes, it's best to just accept and not ask questions. Especially when you don't really know what you're talking about. Sit down, listen and accept. Stop questioning us. We know more than you. Straight allies know more than you. If you're *wanting* to get it, great. We'll take the time to enlighten you, to take you through that process and grow closer. But that gets tiring after a while.
Secondly, Gaymercon isn't all about flaunting or promoting non-hetero sexuality. It's about promoting games and promoting individuals who are non-mainstream and are either non-hetero or make games that are more "alternative" and not geared to..........you guessed it, straight white guys. A lot of straight people have this mentality that gay inclusion is perfect, yadda yadda. No, actually, in the gamer world and in the real world, everything still runs through straight white guys and you all DO NOT SEE IT because you don't have to deal with it and the hatred is less blatant than it has been in the past. It still exists on a major scale. The lack of acceptance is more subtle.
And when I say acceptance, I mean the ability to not just be gay, but be OPENLY gay, be OPENLY non-heterosexual, and not feel any need to be reserved. Not feel any reservation, judgment. At all. No risk of it. Where we're the normal ones. There is a big difference between accepting the fact someone is gay and outright accepting gayness. The gamer world still isn't that great towards homosexuality. Actual makers of games are starting to budge in the right direction, but hardcore gamers? Fans of gaming? Not really. I've seen tons of homophobic shit on this forum. Homophobia EXISTS people.
So why are we being condemned for wanting to avoid it instead of dealing with it upfront? Because it makes straight people feel bad? Live in our shoes. Hell, live in the shoes of a straight ally. The straight allies who get presumed as gay, and deal with much of the same abuse as out gay people do. Why SHOULD we have to deal with the constant hesitation and insecurity?
No. It's not going to happen. That's why Gaymercon is here. That's why we segregate ourselves. Actually, we don't do want to do it. We'd love acceptance. Every day straight people segregate gay people and anyone straight who supports gay rights. You don't do enough to promote inclusion, acceptance, support. You don't do enough to promote acceptance of straight people who aren't stereotypically heterosexual in behavior. You call straight people for gay rights gay. So don't expect us to be buddy buddy. Don't expect us not to have a wall up. It's not about playing victim. It's protection. And it's standing up for ourselves. If you want inclusion, you have to be inclusive. It's annoying how people want to hang out at our clubs, our parties, our social gatherings and community events, without doing the work to make things better for us. It's not enough to say "you can join in our club" aka average game events, average events in general. It's not enough. You don't need to coddle me. But to actually feel welcomed would be a great start and to RESPECT what we do deal with and empathize. Until that happens, you're going to see gay people and straight allies separating ourselves as much as every day straight people separate us. It is what it is. Don't blame us for the society you've created for yourselves.
I also have to say, you know whether you're a straight ally or not. You know whether or not you truly empathize, embrace and support the gay community, not just give token acceptance. I think a major amount of you are true straight allies and I love you all, respect you lots, you have your concerns, and that's fine and not the point of my post. The ones making abrasive statements, assumptions, presumptions, and trying to act as if they know when they don't are the point of my post. Heterosexism, heteronormativity and privileged arrogance is the point of my post.
The funny thing about the complaining I've seen on the web about Gaymercon is that straight people can go and I know of straight people who ARE going. Straight people are invited. It's not an anti-straight campaign we're on, more of an empowerment thing for us. It's not segregation from straight people. It's more open embracing of gaymers. It's easy to say what does sexuality have to do with gaming conventions when you're straight and you can, you know, actually talk about girls you find hot in games, talk to girls at conventions, and chill with your other straight friends, and given the fact most games are, yes, promoted to what straight men want to see. Some straight people are really blind. You don't see how your sexuality is referenced often. Very often. When gay people do basically the same thing it's stop flaunting your sexuality, stop bringing your sexuality into the situation. So what do we do? We go where we find comfort.
Sorry to the non-straight allies here, but it's not always about you. Deal with it.
Non-heterosexuals are DIFFERENT than straight people. Let me make that clear. We are different. We're equals, but different. Anyone who says otherwise is in denial. We're not the same in some very distinct ways. Those differences need to be respected and embraced. We have different desires and needs with particular things. That's why events like this are necessary. Not every single day is the day to fight culture wars. Some days we need our me time. Gaymercon, Gay Pride, Gay bars, gay social events is our me time, and we deserve that time.
Being inclusive and being accepting are not the same thing. Some of you need to understand the difference.
Sorry to the non-straight allies here, but it's not always about you. Deal with it.
Non-heterosexuals are DIFFERENT than straight people. Let me make that clear. We are different. We're equals, but different. Anyone who says otherwise is in denial. We're not the same in some very distinct ways. Those differences need to be respected and embraced. We have different desires and needs with particular things. That's why events like this are necessary. Not every single day is the day to fight culture wars. Some days we need our me time. Gaymercon, Gay Pride, Gay bars, gay social events is our me time, and we deserve that time.
Being inclusive and being accepting are not the same thing. Some of you need to understand the difference.