On Kinect and PlayStation Move

[whaleswiththumbs]

Sorry if this is off-topic, but when will we start getting updates from your space-game again?

I also wonde, but Yahtzee is a fairly busy[small] and sexy[/small] man. So i can understand the problem that he probably has no more done than what he said in his last update. Although he can is free to disprove me.[small]insert gay joke-extension here[/small]

OT:
I forgot what the article said in the course of typing the above....... Although I remember the Henry VII joke....

 

[Fuhjem]

Oh, and Yahtzee. Have you forgotten all about that wonderful thing called Emotiv [http://www.emotiv.com/]?

Sure, I wouldn't want a giant tarantula on my head eating my thoughts, but it's a step forward.

Plus imagine wearing that while you sleep. Your game would be fucked up.

 

[kazriko]

I agree on motion control, it's a step backwards on the whole brain-game interface.

Stereoscopic 3d though...

Was standard definition TV just a crude imitation of a hypothetical future technology? Was Black and White TV just a crude imitation of a hypothetical future technology? No, it was a stepping stone on the way to a future technology. I'm not as optimistic as him about the prospect of holographic televisions BTW. I greatly doubt that such things will be possible in the next 40 years, so stereoscopic is about the best we're going to get for a long time.

Cinematographers will figure out the techniques that they relied on to give the impression of 3d on a 2d plane and stop using them for 3d, and that should improve the whole thing drastically as well. (They need to switch to more pinhole type cameras and eliminate the out-of-focus foreground and background when you're dealing with 3d. They need to quit trying to use lighting to force a 3d effect as well.) As the whole 3d technique matures, the whole thing will mature and the gimmicks of things flying at you will decrease, the gimmicks of the 2d past will disappear, and new gimmicks and parlor tricks will show up to make the best of 3d technologies in a less obtrusive manner.

In a way, using focus blur and shadows to give the impression of 3d on 2d is a parlor trick and was a stand-in for a hypothetical future technology that has finally materialized...

I've heard that the effect is good, and that it ends up just becoming a part of the experience and you stop really noticing that it's in 3d once you get into the game. It's not in the way, it's improving the experience. I imagine that when the children these days grow up having 3d stereoscopic movies and games, they're not going to have any of the eyestrain problems that we adults have now.

 

[kaijyuu]

I disagree that motion controls are a step backwards... well partially anyway.

For anything that needs force feedback (sword fighting, fishing, ect) motion controls most definitely are as bad as you make them out. Indeed, "things that need force feedback" includes most everything. There are a couple exceptions I can think of offhand, though: a steering wheel for racing games, and maybe a calligraphy game of some sort. It really doesn't matter if our real bodies are moving or not (in the hypothetical future of total immersion they probably will be, just to get us some damn exercise), so long as we think about the hunk of plastic in our hands as little as possible.

The best interface is the one you don't notice. That's possible with motion controls, though perhaps with too few potential games that can effectively use them.

 

[Yer man o'er yonder]

What? Wheatley sounds nothing like Yahtzee! Silly people...

Hey Thar, it looks as if your about to shoot whoever is in that screenshot.

Also 3D must die. It is nothing but a useless extra. We already percieve images on a 2d screen in 3d thanks to depth perception. We don't need any help in this from fancy technology.

 

[jak1165]

I know for the most part that even hinting at support for the Wii normally results in shunning, but it seems that Yahtzee hasn't yet grasped the primary reason why the Wii has so thoroughly dominated this round in the console battle. Its not that it solely appeals to Mom, Dad, and Grandma, nor is it the "arm-flailing controls". Its the fact that four people can sit down in one room and *SHOCK* socialize with people face to face AND PLAY A GAME AT THE SAME TIME *GASP*. Whether its Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Wii Sports, Guitar Hero, or WarioWare(lol), people can still play games with other people without getting called a fag by some kiddie on a headset when you kill them

 

[Dr Snakeman]

if anything. i'm actually afraid to be excited for portal 2. trying to make sequals to games that were concidered perfect don't usually come out to well.

I'm pretty scared, too... but I just can't help feeling giddy that they are making a new one.
Valve, please don't break my heart.

Back on topic, yes. Just yes to everything in this article. Yahtzee pinpointed just why motion controls suck so that I didn't have to figure it out on my own.

 

[Jason Danger Keyes]

Extra Punctuation: On Kinect and PlayStation Move

Some people asked me if it was actually me doing the voice of the robot sidekick in the most recent gameplay video. I can now put on record that it is most definitely not. Not that I'd be unwilling to do so if you'd be willing to pay for the flight out again, Valve.

This is the best thing I've ever read in my life. YES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YES!!

 

[MasterChief892039]

As long as controller-based games are still available after the release of the kinect/move, I don't give a crap what corporate f*ckheads and their mindless followers do with their gimmicks. I imagine that gaming will split off into two separate factions, controller and motion, much in the same way that there are RPG fans that play video games versus those that go out and LARP. They're both vaguely connected, but they are not the same thing and they attract entirely different groups of people.

 

[rapchee]

'so if you'd be willing to pay for the flight out again, Valve.' again? when was the first time?
queuing to the space-game update crowd.
also: no reactions about Rebecca Mayes Muses's love-song? :3

 

[Arcanist]

I know for the most part that even hinting at support for the Wii normally results in shunning, but it seems that Yahtzee hasn't yet grasped the primary reason why the Wii has so thoroughly dominated this round in the console battle. Its not that it solely appeals to Mom, Dad, and Grandma, nor is it the "arm-flailing controls". Its the fact that four people can sit down in one room and *SHOCK* socialize with people face to face AND PLAY A GAME AT THE SAME TIME *GASP*. Whether its Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Wii Sports, Guitar Hero, or WarioWare(lol), people can still play games with other people without getting called a fag by some kiddie on a headset when you kill them

You can do that with other consoles, you know. It's not like they have an implant that shocks you whenever you plug in another controller(Well, the PS3 does, but it's Sony. What did you expect?).

 

[Ravek]

The ultimate future of the TV screen would be some kind of holographic output, where the viewscreen perfectly resembles an actual window into the world beyond, rather than an animating 2D image. Stereoscopic 3D is just a parlor trick. It's an interesting effect that is an unusual quirk of humans having two eyes.

You know that having an actual 3D object or two 2D images of the object, from suitable angles, presented to your eyes seperately, is completely indistinguishable, right? Your retinas both receive a 2D image anyway, you can't get around that.

 

[_Nocturnal]

Stereoscopic 3D is just a parlor trick. It's an interesting effect that is an unusual quirk of humans having two eyes.

Funny you should say it. Another thing that started the same way: "motion pictures".
Critics should learn from past's mistakes and stop underestimating the potential of parlor tricks.
Those who specialize in shooting things down, of course, are exempt. Heh.
Ultimately though, it's game designers and filmmakers who will or won't reveal to us the full potenital of those technologies.
It's their job, not the critics'.

Still, thanks for a great read!

 

[Namewithheld]

I actually think that a virtual reality sort of world where you 'think' and it happens would be bad for the gaming industry, because then any sort of test of skill would be thrown out the window. You wouldn't have to aim your gun at the enemy, you'd just think "shoot him!" And bam, he'd be dead. There would be no point to competitive shooter games or action games or any games like that. The 'hardcore' gamers would cease to exist, because hardcore gamers are distinguished by their skill in the games they play, and if there's no test of any relevant skill, Q.E.D. no gamers.

Admittedly you could do an RPG game using that style, but if you're in a virtual world, an RPG would be a horrible idea because it would feel incredibly unrealistic and you'd be immediately reminded that this isn't a real world, which, considering how immersive the virtual world would be in the first place, would pretty much spoil the experience.

I'm pretty sure any VR game would have you think "move arm to hold gun to shoot and hopefully hit enemy" simulation.

 

[Breaker deGodot]

I hope this wasn't Twilight related. The last thing we need is Fox News covering how the Twilight books are killing society.

...actually that'd be pretty funny.

 

[Tharwen]

What? Wheatley sounds nothing like Yahtzee! Silly people...

Hey Thar, it looks as if your about to shoot whoever is in that screenshot.

.>
<.<

He didn't even see it coming.

 

[kewne]

I happen to agree with Yahtzee on the fact that the regular controllers are really well suited to the vast majority of games.

I am, however, also a fan of the sport called "golf", which is, imo, one of the niches where motions controllers REALLY could make a difference. Having tried PGA Tour 10, I must say that the prospect of swinging with something that is handled like a club is far more interesting that swinging a joystick with a thumb.
Shooters are the other type of game which could benefit from motion controllers, as, for one, you can actually shoot something without it having to be in the middle of the screen by using one controller in each hand, one to look and the other to point and shoot. Would definitely improve immersion on console shooters and be attractive to the most serious of gamers out there.

Other than that, love to read Yahtzee's articles. And yes, I did sign up to post this.

 

[Wicky_42]

What this is is the shortest possible connection between intention and in-game action. "Shoot that guy," think you, and lo is that guy shot. Thought &#8594; action. That's what technology should be working towards. Standard controllers have a far shorter brain-action delay than motion controls. The movement of our actual, physical bodies is minimized to the tiny finger-jerks it takes to press a button. Thought &#8594; tiny movement &#8594; action. You can't yet put your mind wholly into the game, but you can channel it through your thumbs while the rest of your body lies as dead and motionless as it would in our hypothetical future Matrix containment tubes. It takes a little while to get used to it, and figure out what buttons apply to what actions, but hey, it took a while for you to learn how to read, too.

I'd counter point that even though the shortest way to swing a sword at someone might be a button-press, it would be infinitely more immersive to swing your arm whilst holding a sword-shaped peripheral, and have your avatar mimic your movements exactly. No amount of experience wiggling a joystick and mashing a couple of buttons is going to make it more realistic or immersive, that's just a barrier between the control interface and your desires.

Take, say, Legend of Zelda: any of the 3D ones. Press A and Link swings his sword horizontally, press it three times and his combo finishes with an upward slash. Lock-on and attack and he'll do a downward jumping attack. Lock-on, press forwards and attack and he'll do a jab. But what if I want to swipe at an enemy's legs? Block with my sword? Back-swing into an enemy's head? There isn't a button for that, just as there's no button for 'spin around to the side of the target and slice him in half' - at least, not without some QTE, and not in Zelda.

The point is, whilst buttons allow you to do things in the game quickly and easily through an abstract control interface, the potential of motion controlling, especially controller-less motion controlling is that you can do things the developers didn't have to explicitly program, perform animations that they didn't create, and interact with the world in a more natural manner than simply pressing a button and watching things happen on the screen.

After all, isn't the disparity between the button-press and the onscreen action what really rankles about quicktime events?

 

[JaymesFogarty]

I whole-heartedly agree with you Yahtzee! (That will probably be the only time I will say that.) Motion controls and 3D are rather annoying gimmicks, which detract more than they bring in to the experience. Sorry if this is off-topic, but has anyone bought Yahtzee's book yet? Is it any good?

Its not out yet, I think Amazon said it was going to be released early september, but incase you missed it, heres a snippet from the book itself
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/7715-Yahtzee-Wrote-a-Book

Shit, I didn't realise it was for Mmorpg players. I must have missed about thirty game references in that. Thanks for the link. At least I know it's not worth getting now.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Sorry if this is off-topic, but when will we start getting updates from your space-game again?

Speaking of space games, if I'm not mistaken the 360 port of Darkstar One coming out soon? The PC version was fairly entertaining in my book. I'd be interested to see what the port is like as I played the game using a 360 controller anyhow.