Peter Molyneux: Natal Bigger Than The Mouse

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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The differance is that with The Mouse it's usefulness and improvement over the keyboard was obvious, which is why it was able to succeed despite a lot of missteps. For example the original "mice" were so buggy that I wound up using the keyboard for a while, and even avoiding some of the first games that required the use of a mouse.

With project Natal, it's less so. In part because it's a bloody motion sensor. In general I can sit down and mess around with my keyboard and mouse, or gamepad in a relatively small space, while sitting at a desk, with minimal distance between me and my system. Right now in my home we have 3 computers all placed in a relatively small computer room (mine, my father's, and my stepmothers. I'm disabled and live at home as I've mentioned, and also all three of us are gamers).

The thing with Natal is that in order to use it, I need to make space, get up, and wave my hands around to do stuff.

What's more the mouse, was a general operating device, that works with all kinds of programs not just for gaming. I can't for example see someone attaching this to a computer (since he's claiming a similar revolution, not just for a game console) and then using it to select functions in say a word processor in an office or cubicle farm.

What's more, I think Natal is being directed at trying to cut in on the popularity of the Wii. A system that has constantly been plagued by questions of "why don't serious games on it go anywhere?". The Wii involves like clearing out the entire living room to make space, and entertain the family for a couple of hours. It's also buggy enough where in general most complicated games tend to turn into junk quickly (as Yahtzee always pointed out), the games that work best are the most simplistic ones like bowling and such. I think the issue is that nobody wants undertake something like a potentially hundred hour epic game like say "Dragon Age Origins", standing there in the living room, doing wierd dances to cast spells and such.

As funny as it sounds, doing the bowling motions and such is a lot less silly looking/seeming from an objective standpoint, than dancing around like an idiot and performing some of the spazztastic motions more complex games require.
 

TheHitcher

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Sep 9, 2009
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Stilt-Man said:
And, of course, Peter Molyneux is always spot-on with his hype.
paketep said:
Only Peter Molyneux can spew stupidities of that caliber. He never disappoints.
zala-taichou said:
I like Peter Molyneux, he always makes me smile with his absurd view of the world. Natal amazingly revolutionary? Don't think so.
What these guys said.
 

Sonicron

Do the buttwalk!
Mar 11, 2009
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Kinda reminds me of when David Cage said that Heavy Rain would transcend its status as a game. It seems Mr Molyneux and Mr Cage both have bottling rights to the Well of Liquid Pretentiousness.
 

Plurralbles

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Jan 12, 2010
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he's always wrong about everything he says so... Takin' it with a nice big, "fuck you, you don't know what you're talking about"
 

xDHxD148L0

The Dissapointed Gamer
Apr 16, 2009
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Even though hes seriously exaggerating, its hard not to blame him for trying to hype up something that hes put a lot of time and effort on.
 

Kilo24

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Aug 20, 2008
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Carnagath said:
Mr. Molyneux either thinks we are stupid or has a very unique definition of "revolutionary".
Oh, it's very much the latter. Very much so.

mokes310 said:
What interests me more than anything else is the potential for Natal to do more than just assist us in gaming. I recall during the E3 demo of Natal; seeing people use it to browse through their Netflix queue, etc. That is where I see Natal being the precursor to additional motion/voice control capabilities.

What if you could come home, sit in front of your TV, say "on" and your entire media center powers up? Make a simple motion and change the channel. Say off and it turns off. Walk in to/out of a room and the lights turn on/off? In the mood for a romantic light setting, use simple motion and voice commands to adjust it to your liking. The point is that this technology not only helps innovate the world of gaming, but ushers in a new era in device convergence.

I, for one, am convinced that many of Natal's detractors will be looking awfully silly once they see the things that this device will allow us to do!
The point is not that the technology exists - voice and motion capture's essentially been around for a long while. The primary point is how well does it work. Voice controlled systems are notoriously imprecise (for a computer, it's a real pain to turn sound waves into words, then words into sensible sentences, then extract meaning from those sentences which is heavily dependent on context.) Motion control can get pretty nasty as well - this will all hinge on how accurately it's able to translate motion into instructions.

That information is not something you will not get from a tech demo. I'm not enthused about it until they can show me a physical product that reliably functions, not just a spliced-together video of what one could be (that had all the bad takes edited out.)

The second major hurdle is what software will support it. This is a big Microsoft-sponsored project IIRC, so I'd guess they're strongly encouraging developers to use it. Which is a good thing, because if there's not enough application to make its purchase worthwhile, it'll sputter and die no matter how good the technology is. The tech demo is slightly more useful in this regard, but they won't show you the times that you'll need to pull out a real controller because the sensors/firmware's not precise enough. If it's well done, there won't be any times like that, but we won't know from only the promotional material that's been released.
 

SextusMaximus

Nightingale Assassin
May 20, 2009
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Cliff_m85 said:
I don't get the bullshit with bitching about Peter 'hyping'. He's putting time and money in this, ofcourse he's going to make it sound awesome. You don't hear McDonald's saying "The New Big Mac Wrap: It's edible!"

Peter is taking a large hands-on approach to hyping his shit, which means he obviously cares about what he does. You can all ***** about it falling short from what he might've presented it as being, but if you aim for the moon....right? It's his baby and he's obviously excited about it. Take every goddamn marketing statement with a grain of salt, but I dig this guy for being so excited about what he's doing. It shows he cares.

And his games make money, plenty have played and enjoyed them. I'm certain many will mess with Natal and have a fun time. So what if he tells us it gives virtual hummers as long as the ending product results in fun?
It's his track record of hype, you don't see McDonalds claiming they're better than say, Burger King.
 

NamesAreHardToPick

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Jan 7, 2010
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Treblaine said:
Populus89 said:
Anyone remember the EyeToy?
That was Sony's bad wasn't it, they said they have learned from their mistakes and they say that Microsoft are making all the same mistakes and think that just increasing the fidelity in the solution.

Well they would say that wouldn't they but do they have a point? Is Natal just "Eye Toy HD/3D"?
To be fair Natal has the software side as well, it's actually programmed to recognize human figures and track their position and movement. My PS3 EyeToy apps are more of the "hey! something's moving! OMG I heard a sound!" variety. That said, Mesmerize is still hella fun to play with.

I have huge doubts about motion controlled games, since there's no tactile feedback. I haven't seen anything yet that makes me think "oh wow this is really accessible and/or immersive"... in fact I find it's more frustrating when my character won't do exactly what I want in Wii games than with a normal control pad.
 

Mordwyl

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Feb 5, 2009
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Molyneux's Inverse Law of Potential: The more hype is put into something that has not seen the light of day the higher the chance it will disappoint.
 

Caradinist

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Nov 19, 2009
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What will be earth shattering is if Natal all of a sudden becomes a requirement in games.
 

Zenn3k

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Feb 2, 2009
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I used to really like Peter Molyneux, but he has just let me down too many times.

Black & White 2 - Fail
The Movies - Fail (great concept, but the actual gameplay was some of the most horrid micromanagement I've ever had to do)
Fable 2 - Fail

Pretty sure Natal is gonna fail too.
 

Brotherofwill

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Jan 25, 2009
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Therumancer said:
Wholeheartedly agree.

What confuses me is the simple idea of convenience that people seem to be forgetting here.

Why is the mouse so easy and good to use? It's accurate and you rest your hand on it, using minimal motion to move the cursor. You never have to lift your hand, it's genius and really comfortable. Now, if we had let's say one of those Minority Report interfaces where the person is spastaculously waving and flailing his arms around to navigate menus, would this really catch on for office work or computer usage? I highly doubt it. Too much work, arms tire too fast.

Natal= same problem.

Why would anyone wave his arm to the side to move to the next item in a dashboard instead of just moving an analogue stick half a centimeter? I don't get it.
 

mokes310

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Oct 13, 2008
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Kilo24 said:
mokes310 said:
What interests me more than anything else is the potential for Natal to do more than just assist us in gaming. I recall during the E3 demo of Natal; seeing people use it to browse through their Netflix queue, etc. That is where I see Natal being the precursor to additional motion/voice control capabilities.

What if you could come home, sit in front of your TV, say "on" and your entire media center powers up? Make a simple motion and change the channel. Say off and it turns off. Walk in to/out of a room and the lights turn on/off? In the mood for a romantic light setting, use simple motion and voice commands to adjust it to your liking. The point is that this technology not only helps innovate the world of gaming, but ushers in a new era in device convergence.

I, for one, am convinced that many of Natal's detractors will be looking awfully silly once they see the things that this device will allow us to do!
The point is not that the technology exists - voice and motion capture's essentially been around for a long while. The primary point is how well does it work. Voice controlled systems are notoriously imprecise (for a computer, it's a real pain to turn sound waves into words, then words into sensible sentences, then extract meaning from those sentences which is heavily dependent on context.) Motion control can get pretty nasty as well - this will all hinge on how accurately it's able to translate motion into instructions.

That information is not something you will not get from a tech demo. I'm not enthused about it until they can show me a physical product that reliably functions, not just a spliced-together video of what one could be (that had all the bad takes edited out.)

The second major hurdle is what software will support it. This is a big Microsoft-sponsored project IIRC, so I'd guess they're strongly encouraging developers to use it. Which is a good thing, because if there's not enough application to make its purchase worthwhile, it'll sputter and die no matter how good the technology is. The tech demo is slightly more useful in this regard, but they won't show you the times that you'll need to pull out a real controller because the sensors/firmware's not precise enough. If it's well done, there won't be any times like that, but we won't know from only the promotional material that's been released.
I agree with you to a certain extent, and yes, it is hard to make concrete assertions when only provided with short, preprogrammed tech demos. Natal's potential success' will definitely hinge on it's accuracy and adaptability.

I also agree with you, to a certain extent, about the software side of Natal and it's applications. Where I differ from you is that I can see this peripheral being utilized not just by the XBOX 360, but by a PC install base of MILLIONS. Put yourself in the shoes of a Microsoft Executive and it's very easy to see that this project could be utilized by many different platforms, not just the 360, and that's why I feel, provided it's solid tech, Natal will surpass all expectations. You don't invest this kind of cash to limit a tech to one platform...that's what Apple does ;)

Sure, the potential for Natal to change the face of gaming as we know it is relatively small, but the potential for Natal to change how we interact with our media devices on a daily basis is limited only by the hardware. Does that make any sense?
 

Crash 9000

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Oct 22, 2009
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A slightly better EyeToy will be as technologically changing as the mouse?

I guess he also thinks that if you fart and sneeze at the same time, God will come down from Heaven and have a fight with a nearby walrus, lose then fart off into space and blow up the Sun as obviously his logic functions about as well as his truth-telling skills.
 

Jaebird

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Aug 19, 2008
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Who are we to question this Moluneux's word? After all, Fable II revolutionized console gaming forever. Dragon Age: Origins and Final Fantasy can't hold a candle to that.

But seriously; to say the mouse was a better innovation than the microprocessor? Really? The one component that advanced computing further to allow such tools as a mouse to be conceivably possible? I don't want to knock the guy down for being over-zealous about his work, but he has to think about limiting the hype somewhere. Otherwise, he might as well add salt and pepper to his foot before shoving it in his mouth.
 

Comma-Kazie

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Sep 2, 2009
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I think Yahtzee put it best when he said Peter Molyneux "tends to promise the world and be ultimately crippled by his own ambitions." I know I will be shocked if Pete is right on this one.