Please let Pokemon gracefully exit.

[Gennadios]

Graceful exits aren't something that Capitalism does. Particularly Nintendo, they keep franchises alive longer than any other game company that I know of.

The only way Pokemon will die is if people stop buying the games, and there doesn't seem to be any danger of that happening any time soon. I don't think the people in charge of the series are trying to do the gaming equivalent of Seinfeld, they won't simply stop when they think the series is peaking.

 

[Rose and Thorn]

1- None of this buy Red version or Blue version for pokemon exclusives. Make one version with every pokemon available. I get pokemon is a lot about trading...but it really shouldn't be. It seems like more of a money grab, because a lot of "Fans" will buy both versions regardless.

2- Another trade issue is evolving. You can't level a good chunk of pokemon until you TRADE them? Ummm stupid. "I love my pokemon and wish for him to get stronger, I know I'll give him away so he can get bigger muscles." Silly.

3- Rare pokemon are cool, but ultra rare ones that you can't get without like moving to japan or going to some event in New York city? Argcack. Make every pokemon available to everyone, although make rare ones hard to find and capture, not impossible.

I dunno, trading was part of the fun. As was the duplication glitch

Well I'm not saying to take out the trading, just not to make it mandatory for those that want a completely single player experience without the need to get help from someone else, especially to evolve my damn Haunter.

 

[Innegativeion]

*snip*

I like trading, as Kahuna said. I'd always get my friends to buy the version I wasn't getting so we could get the exclusives.

Also, Ninntendo seems to be distributing pretty much all of their event pokemon over wi fi nowadays. No longer do you have to treck out to the pokemon center to get the "secret legendary" of each generation.

Man... I remember when being privileged enough to nab a Mew made you a legend yourself.

 

[thereverend7]

I can see where your coming from, OP. Pokemon was a big part of my childhood as well. So it's easy to get jaded after all the years after the original roster of 151 has tripled (hell, probably quadrupled... yes i'm too lazy to google how many pokemon we are up to now) and so you want the series to bow out gracefully, while its at its peak, instead of working down into something bad, or being a sell-out. However, Pokemon black and white is just as much fun, if not MORE FUN, then the original red and blue/yellow. Why? Because it still has the heart of what makes pokemon such a blast (catching/battling, etc) while still adding enough to be new.

It would be like getting upset at a new mario game. Sure its the same thing, but why fix what isn't broke? If people still enjoy platforming in all the new levels nintendo can come up with, why would they discontinue it?

If Pokemon is ever going to "bow out" its going to be past the point of no return, when people no longer care about it. But while its still making money, and is as fun as its ever been? why would they stop now?

 

[SAMAS]

Pokemon doesn't need to exit, it needs to evolve (dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-duuuuuuun...)

What I think the franchise needs is a (slightly) more serious/mature (note that I didn't say darker) and detailed game for those people who got into the series since Red/Blue/Yellow.

 

[Kahunaburger]

The Physical/Special split is important in minute ways that seem important only to hardcore fans.

Special attack/defense (or just special, if it's gen I) governs special attacks, vanilla attack and defense governs physical attacks. What's there to understand?

But to be fair, I knew that when I was 10, too.

The Physical/Special Split was the gameplay change introduced in Diamond and Pearl, where an Attack's Type was no longer the sole determining factor for being a Special or Physical Attack. So before when all Psychic moves were Special and all Ground moves were Physical, now we can have Physical Psychic moves and Special Ground moves too.

Back in my day we didn't have these newfangled physical psychic attacks and special rock attacks. And we only had one special stat to go around. And we walked uphill both ways through Mt. Moon.

 

[Gxas]

It's important to realize something. POKEMON IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN FOR KIDS.

Find me a child under 10 who has a firm grasp on EVs, IVs, breeding, and the metagame. Please.

Fine me one who understands why the Physical/Special split was so important. Please.

Don't say that they don't change things for previous fans of the series. You're incredibly wrong in that statement.

I'm 20 and I don't even understand what EV's and IV's are. Mostly because playing Pokemon is not something I do for hours on end, because there are a billion things in life more important than gaming.

The Physical/Special split is important in minute ways that seem important only to hardcore fans. The same way that +3 crit in WoW isn't important, but to an obsessive raider, it's like liquid gold.

Read the rest of my post and you'll catch my meaning. Don't cherry-pick my first sentence and try to talk big.

There was no cherry-picking or talking big. There was just highlighting your thesis and providing reasoning as to why it was wrong.

I read the entirety of your post and it still did not give me the meaning you thought it should have. However, the post you made after that cleared everything up.

But I will argue this: There may be a billion things in life more important than gaming, but nothing is more important than my happiness. And if spending a few hours a day breeding over 600 eggs for a Timid, female Gastly who is 26/23/29/31/31/31 makes me happy, then I'm damn well going to do it.

Hobbies are never a waste of time to those who have them. Please, do not attack or berate the hobby or the person who has it.

 

[theultimateend]

What I read...
OMFG GUYS GEN V IS SO DUMB LIKE LOOK AT THIS:

Love at first sight.

1- None of this buy Red version or Blue version for pokemon exclusives. Make one version with every pokemon available. I get pokemon is a lot about trading...but it really shouldn't be. It seems like more of a money grab, because a lot of "Fans" will buy both versions regardless.

2- Another trade issue is evolving. You can't level a good chunk of pokemon until you TRADE them? Ummm stupid. "I love my pokemon and wish for him to get stronger, I know I'll give him away so he can get bigger muscles." Silly.

3- Rare pokemon are cool, but ultra rare ones that you can't get without like moving to japan or going to some event in New York city? Argcack. Make every pokemon available to everyone, although make rare ones hard to find and capture, not impossible.

I dunno, trading was part of the fun. As was the duplication glitch

Well I'm not saying to take out the trading, just not to make it mandatory for those that want a completely single player experience without the need to get help from someone else, especially to evolve my damn Haunter.

At this point you are one starbucks away from being able to trade with anyone on the planet who owns this game.

Complaining about the two versions has been petty since they added the global trade service. I got it back with link cables, but not anymore.

Also not aware of any pokemon in the pokedex that anyone couldn't get just by being vigilant of events in their area. Or do you live somewhere that has no gamestops, targets, toysRus's, or walmarts?

>_>...

Otherwise it just kinda sounds like "I want a game without anything special going on, just have all that ish drop in the first route."

Which I know is oversimplifying but they aren't doing anything that hasn't been done for thousands of years in terms of special events and holidays having special treats tied to them.

Might be nitpicking also but 22 out of 649 is not "a good chunk" >_> 3%?

If I said "A good chunk of my paycheck is gone." and I still had 97% of it...I'd be damn happy.

REAL damn happy.

I don't think the people in charge of the series are trying to do the gaming equivalent of Seinfeld, they won't simply stop when they think the series is peaking.

Seems a bit presumptuous, shouldn't you wait to see if they don't stop once Pokemon actually peaks?

But you did basically say you were guessing.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

not adding any new pokemon is RELEASING THE SAME GAME TWICE.
This is Logic.

Bullshit. Thats not logic, that is ignorance.

I think you've ignored what they've added into Black and White 2, I have not played them yet because they are not available in english but from what I can tell, all the little additions make up for it, changes in gyms, changes in the pokemon available, new takes and such are all little things.

Pokemon has always been about little changes to the formula, ever since Pokemon Gold and Silver came out, it has always been about the little things, keeps the core gameplay but make changes that mix up the game bit by bit.

I call shenanigans.
You hear that noise of running water?
It's a river called DE-NILE.(Denial)
Pokemon never deviates from it's core story mechanic to far. The furthest it goes is the circumstance you get the starter under, massive plot changes in a pokemon do not and will not happen.
They said the exact same thing about platinum, and it was pretty much the same as D and P.

Yes but its obvious right from the fucking start its not the same game.

I want you to look at my previous post, the one with the Metroid and Mario games on it, Platinum was much the same as those.

I want you to read my post at least 3 times and then try and find an argument to why its a sequel.

I refuse to read your previous post 3 times, because it was stupid the first time and It will only end up being 3 times more stupid if I read it again.
You are relying heavily on the assumption it will greatly change the plot or introduce some new game mechanic.
It won't.
No pokemon game has ever greatly shaken things up plot or function-wise.
There are what, 3 new pokemon being introduced?
They are the only difference.
I'm gonna put aside all criticisms I have of B and W 1, because at least that was a NEW pokemon game. I may not have liked it, but it was different from platinum, diamond and pearl due to the new pokemon.
B AND W 2 IS THE SAME AS B AND W 1. THIS IS A CON.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

So Black and white 2 is/are coming out soon. Oh joy. The least creative pokemon game with the worst designed pokemon and least innovation gets direct sequalage.

It is not the least creative Pokemon game in the series, and its Pokemon are not better or worse than any other generation. I get that you personally don't care for them. I hate Vanillite/Vanniluxe/other thing and Trubbish/Garbodor. But I don't look at the game and say "Wow hey that's like every pokemon they must all suck."

In an effort to not completly ruin what was a massive part of my childhood, I've been replaying the decent pokemon games in an effort to remind me that what was once good cannot be tainted by it's future sucking the hole at the bottom of the barrel to get some of the magic back.

You must give little value to your childhood experiences. It's interesting that you would discount them entirely.

As I "Upgraded" to the 3ds, I've been playing a lot of soulsilver...

"Guys, black and white 2 will be hellspawn because I am tired of Nintendo not innovating! They are totally milking cash cows and I hate it! By the way I totally love the Gold/Silver remake!"

I used to love pokemon. I would defend it to the death. Pokemon was a major part of my childhood, something I will be showing to my kids if and when I have them...

Good!

Pokemon is, essentially, always the same game. Which is fine, because it's a good game, and the plot isn't overly complex etc. It's simple fun, and the greatest thing about it,

So then why did you even bother to comment on Black/White's purported lack of innovation?

The pokemon largely suck and there aren't going to be many new ones.

Uhhhh...the pokemon in B/W are as different from previous generations as G/S/C was to R/B/Y; R/S/E to G/S/C, etc..

Heres the thing: Kanto was great, Johto was perfect, Hoenn... Good pokemon, didn't like the layout of the region, Sinnoh was pretty good all round, Unova... Crap pokemon, Okay layout, Crap pokemon.

Nope. I had a lot of fun in Unova. Since my opinion is no more or less valid than yours, it immediately cancels out your claim. So, sorry about that.

What I'm really saying is, Pokemon is not very far over the "Can't even remember what I saw in it" point yet.

That's a problem with you personally, not the series.

Remember the great times we had, the first pokemon we caught, the first pokemon we evolved, everything great that we did on our grand adventure in the world of pokemon. Share the adventure with our sons and daughters, let them carry on as we did, and always remember how great it was.

Or you could just introduce it to them and let them choose their favourites.

And If nintendo still wants to milk the cash cow, they can remake until there balls drop off.
No New games, we know you guys have run out of variants on every animal name ever.

I'd like to re-iterate that you bought SoulSilver when you could have most likely gone back and re-played your old copy of Silver.

I'd like to state that Pokemon Silver was my most beloved game in the series and the only game that I've completed the Pokedex in. Twice.

I'm sure I'll come off as a Game Freak fanboy or whatever, but it was just a lot of fun to pick apart this post. Much wrong with the logic.

My copy of pokemon silver and indeed my gameboy colour has been broken since 2004. That disassembles at least two third of your argument. I bought soulsilver because there was no other method of playing it. I'll take away my complaints about black and white one to essentially move my main point of: Black and white 2 are re-releases of Black and white 1. Not in the way that yellow crystal emerald etc were, because they at least served some function, to get whatever the regions third legendary pokemon was easier. Unova is not doing this in 2. Therefore black and white 2 is a con.

 

[Smeggs]

Only 70 in Conquest? lightweight! XD

For anyone interested in it, do LOOK IN TO IT before you buy it. It's a tactics/strategy game, as opposed to what some parent buying a pokemon game for their kid might expect them to like.

As for the topic at hand, pokemon is as pokemon does. not all the new ones are gonna be 'win', not all the old ones were 'win' either. I've been thinking they should make some kind of actual pokemon MMO, though they'd need to restrict/not make legendaries available aside from boss encounters, and the like.

I bought it, and it was a good game, but it was...how do I put it? It was like, "Baby's first TBS." Each Pokemon only gets one attack and can only attack a certain way? Basically all it is is the same spamming as before, the only actual fight I had to truly plan for was the final battle against Nobunaga and his goons, and that's only because of you-know-what replacing your chosen monster. Would've killed them outright with my ultra-buff Beartic. Every other battle was just an affair of "Equip Dragon Breath users, surround enemy, spam for 40hp damage until victory."

If you manage to get Gyarados and Garchomp/Dragonite the game becomes almost laughably easy right up to the end.

What I read...
OMFG GUYS GEN V IS SO DUMB LIKE LOOK AT THIS:

Honestly, Trubbish and Garbodor have grown on me like the gross furry fungus that grows on them. They're adorable and honestly not that bad in a battle. My Garbodor swept the fighting Elite 4 for me in a hilarious turn of events.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

not adding any new pokemon is RELEASING THE SAME GAME TWICE.
This is Logic.

Oh my god! That means that every Mario game is the same game, every FPS ever released is the same game, every RPG ever is the same game...

*Sigh* one of you people again...
Mario games usually are the same game with graphical improvements and re-using OLD content from previous games. Yes, most of them are the same, or at least very similar.
Most Fps' have crap stories, but the crap stories are different to an extent as are the settings and generic marines.
Rpg's.... By definition CAN'T all be the same, they heavily rely on stories and characters with different game mechanics. Bringing this one up even Ironically makes no sense.

Black and White 2 Does not change the graphics from the first one, nor does it change the story of the first one, nor does it introduce a new gameplay mechanic, new pokemon, ANYTHING even slightly resembling change does not appear in black and white 2. Ergo, the only difference is the cover.

 

[Smeggs]

-snip-

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the entire game's premise at its most basic level is, "GUIZE, WE HAZ 2 STOP KYUREM!"

That...usually means you will fight him right before the Pokemon league.

one, nor does it change the story of the first one, nor does it introduce a new gameplay mechanic, new pokemon, ANYTHING even slightly resembling change does not appear in black and white 2. Ergo, the only difference is the cover.

THE STORY IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THE FIRST ONE.

THE MAP IS DIFFERENT.

THE CHARACTERS ARE DIFFERENT.

THERE IS AN ENTIRELY NEW STADIUM FEATURE AND POKEWOOD.

YOU ARE NOW ABLE TO OBTAIN POKEMON WHICH ORIGINALLY YOU'D NEED NO LESS THAN THREE GENERATIONS OF GAMES TO OBTAIN.

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

-snip-

And what exactly are the new Pokemon games doing to you that make you want to stop them so badly? Does it hurt you every time they make a new one? Do ten year olds come and whack you on the head with a crowbar *(Thats insensitive, I was once beaten to death by the joker with a crowbar)* for every new Pokemon they catch? Are the mountains of cash Nintendo accumulates from their consistently entertaining games and the young audience it keeps excited putting an obnoxious shadow over your front lawn?

Pretty much, yes. (Metaphorically, yeah actually)

Look, there's only so many times you can do the same thing before it gets old and starts to ruin the previous times it's been done. Releasing black and white AGAIN takes the piss, and starts pokemon off on the slippery slope of terribad. What you're saying is fair enough, my personal preference about Black and White 1 are irrelevant. My opinions on B and W 2 are not, because it is LITERALLY THE SAME GAME, which is pretty crap of nintendo to do to their fans, especially the diehards who would accept it if they released pokemon brown edition in the region of Pooplova with every pokemon based on Hideo Kishima's (May have spelt that wrong) bowel movements. Nintendo mis-treats it's fanbase, this is the perfect example of them using adoration to blind people to the truth. It isn't fair.

 

[blah_ducks]

Pokemon has a very special place in my heart. Crystal was my first video game ever and I only became the gamer I am today because of pokemon. I get the nostalgia, my childhood was basically revolved around Pokemon (with Yu-Gi-Oh thrown in for good measure) which made me love Black/White even more.

While I don't care for the games now, I remember in Ruby (and to an extent Crystal) when I would go into a route and not have a clue who any of the pokemon were. They were all new and exciting and I would have to find out which ones were awesome from my older sister who was farther in the game than me. I never got that again after playing it a kazillion times and Diamond/Pearl felt (to me) like it was heavily populated in past pokemon. After the remakes I had forgotten what it was like to be thrust into a region where I didn't know a single pokemon. Maybe had I followed the leaks more closely or researched it I would not like it as much, but I think Gen 5 is one of the best games BECAUSE they only showcased the new pokemon instead of mixing them with the old. It made me connect with the new designs instead of being distracted by old favorites.

I found this Gen's designs top notch. Yes Allomolo or however the hell you spell it is a stupid luvdisc knockoff and yes Liepard is the worst dark type. Those are the only complaints I can think of for the entire-no wait, those weather legendary guys look kinda gross- designs. I have no idea why people hate on Garbodor because that is one of the cutest things ever (one of those so ugly it's cute things). And most people call Vanillite a derpy, dumb looking pokemon and to that I say...

this thing legit scares me. IT'S SATAN!! SATAN I SAY! WHY DOESN'T ANYONE ONE BELIEVE ME!

But my favorites would be Gen 2 (I'm aware I'm tainted by nostalgia) > 5 > 1 > 3 > 4

To sum up, I like the direction pokemon is going in and I would really like to see them do more of their games that just have that generation's pokemon.

Edit:

Honestly, Trubbish and Garbodor have grown on me like the gross furry fungus that grows on them. They're adorable and honestly not that bad in a battle. My Garbodor swept the fighting Elite 4 for me in a hilarious turn of events.

Yay, I'm not the only one! c:

 

[Smeggs]

My opinions on B and W 2 are not, because it is LITERALLY THE SAME GAME, which is pretty crap of nintendo to do to their fans, especially the diehards who would accept it if they released pokemon brown edition in the region of Pooplova with every pokemon based on Hideo Kishima's (May have spelt that wrong) bowel movements. Nintendo mis-treats it's fanbase, this is the perfect example of them using adoration to blind people to the truth. It isn't fair.

It's like...it's like your mind is incapable of taking in the information laid out before you.

Are you doing this to troll or-No. Know what? You go ahead and keep denying the facts. Meanhwile the rest of us who have eyes and ears will be fighting Team Plasma.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

Oh boy, someone who thinks his opinion about the design of the new Pokes is a fact...

Isn't that exactly what you're doing by implying that I'm wrong?

No. you see, he is not implying that he is right, he is saying that your opinion is not fact.

That you are wrong, because you posted as if your opinion on other generations was factually held together. Which it was not.

Your opinion is nothing more than how you personally feel.

Okay, my opinion on the design of B and W 1 is opinion, but everything I have said about black and white 2 is fact, due to the simple process of what nintendo has said, what the fans have said, and the history of pokemon as a whole. It looks something like this.

History: Pokemon has not deviated massively from it's plot in 15 years, the same can be said of B and W.
Fans: "B and W 2 fulfills the same role as Yellow, crystal, Emerald, platinum" The role of these games was easy access to the third legendary pokemon of the region. Pokemon Black and White 2 do not have a third Legendary to catch.
Nintendo: *See above.

From this, what has been said by nintendo AND the fans, and the simple fact there are no new pokemon, we can deduce that Black and white 2, if it is indeed fulfilling the role that Y, C, E and Pl played before it, With no additional pokemon, it will not be any differnet to the first game, as Y, C etc did not change the plots of there respective games to any large extent, and the way it did was about the pokemon. Quid Pro Quo, Black And White 2 is a con.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

(Note, if your answer is: It always sucked, there is no place for you here)

So Black and white 2 is/are coming out soon. Oh joy. The least creative pokemon game with the worst designed pokemon and least innovation gets direct sequalage. Currently, I see a lot of expectant happy people out there looking forward to this atrocity. In an effort to not completly ruin what was a massive part of my childhood, I've been replaying the decent pokemon games in an effort to remind me that what was once good cannot be tainted by it's future sucking the hole at the bottom of the barrel to get some of the magic back.

As I "Upgraded" to the 3ds, I've been playing a lot of soulsilver and platinum recently.

I used to love pokemon. I would defend it to the death. Pokemon was a major part of my childhood, something I will be showing to my kids if and when I have them. UP TO A POINT.

Nintendo's cash machine is running low and therefore pokemon cannot be allowed to die. Which is sad. Pokemon as a franchise is like a coma patient, aware of its surroundings but unable to stop nintendo from wheeling it out in public every once in a while to get money from the people who want to keep it alive. It's intolerable, and Pokemon is suffering for it. Slowly we'll reach a point (Probably black and white 3) where pokemon has pushed itself past the point of redemption and no-one can look at it with fond memories anymore. There's only so many times you can release the exact same game and get away with it.

Pokemon is, essentially, always the same game. Which is fine, because it's a good game, and the plot isn't overly complex etc. It's simple fun, and the greatest thing about it, the only thing that always changes, is the variety of pokemon. (My personal favourite set of pokemon was Gen 2, overall there were not many I didn't want to catch). Pokemon sucks you in and makes you care about these little critters for one reason or another. As obvious as this sounds, the Pokemon make the game. Which is why Black and White wasn't very good, and the total lack of ANY new pokemon in black and white 2 is a piss take. The pokemon largely suck and there aren't going to be many new ones.

Heres the thing: Kanto was great, Johto was perfect, Hoenn... Good pokemon, didn't like the layout of the region, Sinnoh was pretty good all round, Unova... Crap pokemon, Okay layout, Crap pokemon.

What I'm really saying is, Pokemon is not very far over the "Can't even remember what I saw in it" point yet. If it ends with black and white 2, we can retain fond memories of what came before. But I think the best thing that we, the fans of pokemon can do, Is let go, let it pass on, and never forget it. Remember the great times we had, the first pokemon we caught, the first pokemon we evolved, everything great that we did on our grand adventure in the world of pokemon. Share the adventure with our sons and daughters, let them carry on as we did, and always remember how great it was.






And If nintendo still wants to milk the cash cow, they can remake until there balls drop off.
No New games, we know you guys have run out of variants on every animal name ever.

EDIT: I concede that Black and White one was fine as a pokemon game, it was new, introduce pokemon, a new region, etc.
Black and white 2 is still a collosal rip-off.

Oh, and from now on, I am only responding to the most clever arguments or the most pants on head retarded.

 

[moopig66]

After i bought Black it just made me want to play Soul Silver more... i guess im just doomed to stick to the re-releases or whatever you call them. I guess people still blindly love Pokemon now days even with the reduced quality, but the series has been going for so long its not really surprising

And i once had Pokemon bed sheets... thats sad...buuuuuuttttt if you dont like 'em dont buy 'em, vote with your money.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

I imported and played through White 2 when it came out in Japan. Was better than Black 1, an already great game, in my opinion. Black and White 1 and 2 are the first times in the Pokemon franchise that I've felt motivated by the story to continue onward; the whole time I was wanting to see the next part, rather than just get the next badge.