Neither side of the debate ever acknowledges how the other defines the term.
Shanicus said:
The Friend Zone is the idiotic concept that the reason a woman has rejected a man is because she is only interested in dating 'assholes', shunting all the 'nice guys' she knows into the Friend Zone as she only wants to be 'good friends' with them.
See? Just like this. When you re-define the phrase, all the arguments, direct insults and name calling later on seem reasonable.
For my money, I believe everything happens and that it's silly to say a social concept "doesn't exist" in any sense.
Sometimes people want to be in a relationship with another person, but the feelings are only seen as friendship.
I also absolutely believe there are instances where one or both parties try to take advantage of the situation and manipulate the other person, either because they know the feelings the other has toward them or because they want to force the other person to feel the same way they do.
I'm not sure how the concept of the "friend zone" is at all tied to the selfish people that expect sex for being nice. Just because there's assholes out there doesn't mean that the phenomenon doesn't exist. That's like saying animal bites don't exist because only people that abused animals ever get bit. Animals bite for any reason, it's how the recipient handles the situation and why it happened in the first place that colors our perception of it.
Yeah it's possible to have romantic interest in a close friend and not have that affection reciprocated. A lot of people will have experience such a situation. There's a difference between that and being some creepy fuckwit on Tumblr stalking people online and claiming you were "friendzoned" when people blacklist you.
It exists insofar as people will always think of other people as friends rather than potential mates.
But generally speaking, the sort of person who complains about the Friendzone was attempting to use a faux friendship to go after what they really wanted. I've asked out friends and if you truly think of them as your friend you accept their rejection without anger.
Yeah, as pretty much the first 2 or 3 posters and a good number of others have said, I'd always taken it to a way to describe a situation where one person is interested in another romantically but the other is only interested in friendship.
That said it's probably been used a lot in other ways as well.
That's the problem with these ill defined slang phrases, they mean different things to different people.
Considering I am friends with some women I wouldn't want a romantic relationship with yes, yes it is real.
The Lunatic said:
I don't think the "Friendzone" exists as a conscious thing in men or women. I think it just happens, and it doesn't really appear to be the fault of anyone in particular.
Considering I am friends with some women I wouldn't want a romantic relationship with yes, yes it is real.
The Lunatic said:
I don't think the "Friendzone" exists as a conscious thing in men or women. I think it just happens, and it doesn't really appear to be the fault of anyone in particular.
The Friendzone as noun seems an apt way to describe the feeling.
It's Friendzoned and Friendzoning (verbs) which is the objection. It wasn't done to you, it just is.
And, yes, it sucks but it's no one's fault. Just about everyone has done the unrequited love thing with a friend. You just have to accept the feelings aren't returned.
A little conundrum that got into my head after hearing an argument last night while playing. Its curious cause some say its a real thing while others think its a stupid nonexistent concept.
A likes B , A wants to ask B out, A doesnt have the confidence to go for it, A aims lower and claims "i just want to be friends"
A friendzones self, B finds out A likes them but its too late the relationship rules have been set, A starts drinking cheap cider and asks the wrong questions of god and the universe in general.
There's a time limit on creating female attraction, and what happens when it runs out is commonly called the friendzone by guys who don't know how to get a woman to be attracted to them. If you get game then the concept becomes meaningless, it's fundamentally a beta male concept.
This idea is part of the reason why I say that the friendzone doesn't exist. There is no concrete time range. You can't bypass rejection, or increase your odds for acceptance, just by asking right a way. In some cases a woman will know immediately, in others feelings may develop or change. Just like how a guy will either know immediately if he wants to ask someone out, or how his feelings may change once he gets to know someone. But usually you know if you are interested in someone romantically the first time you meet them because the first time you meet them you will decide if they are attractive or not. In most cases romantic feeling will develop over time, not disinterest. And on occasion someone who you think is cute can become less attractive because you discover that they have a shitty attitude.
But there is no switch that turns off in a woman's brain if a guy who is friendly to her doesn't immediately ask. And there is no way to create "female attraction". She either thinks a dude is cute and starts to wait for said dude to ask her out because gender roles. Or she thinks that the dude has enough similar interests to be friends with.
I have to point out the guy your quoting is using 'pick up artist' terminology - 'game' and 'beta male'. He probably subscribes to the belief his 'game' can get him into any sexual relationship he desires.
(said 'games' can include gaslighting and sexual assault, and are general more about getting the PUA laid, and not really about creating a healthy relationship)
I think the friendzone exists but the term gets frequently over-applied to any example of unrequited love.
And yeah, the situation does exist where a guy can feel "entitled" to a relationship because he's invested time, money, has confessed his love, etc. This is usually awkward, often turns out pretty damn ugly, but isn't exclusive to men.
What I think might constitute a genuine "friendzone" is when one person is making no real pretense about how they feel, the other person knows damn well they're leading them on, but rather than being honest or cutting them loose, they perpetuate the situation because it benefits them in some way. Perhaps the attention is an ego-boost, maybe they get bought gifts, maybe they're relying on that person for transport, and so on.
Because of the societal norms we live by, the person doing the "giving" is usually male, and the person doing the "withholding" is usually female. Man as provider, female chastity is valued, etc. Can men ever lead on women in a similar way? Sure, but due to gender roles that's often in the form of, say, a guy using a girl for sex when she is hoping for a long-term relationship. Or a man getting rent-free accommodation with his girlfriend, because he's letting her believe that there will be a child and marriage in it for her eventually. This kind of thing isn't usually called friendzoning, but I think it's the equivalent asymmetric relationship.
Examples of males in the friendzone?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not for a minute saying that friendzoned guys are "owed" sex, or affection, or whatever. What they're owed is compassion and honesty. Unrequited love sucks - we've all been there, right? - and being strung along and being given false hope is an act of cruelty. And if that's happening because their money, or transport, or emotional support is considered a useful commodity, then that's an act of exploitation - and that's wrong, even if you're a pretty, popular girl.
Yes, unrequited love happens and it sucks and its okay to be sad and whine about it. It stops being okay, however, when you start blaming the person who rejected you, that's just selfish and dickish.
From my experience, the people who use the phrase "friend zone" are usually the ones being jerks about it, so I don't know if it's a good term to use for unrequited love when it has such negative connotations. If you say you are being "friend zoned" if can't help but think about this pathetic guy:
The friend zone exists but only as just that, a state of being in friendship. The friend zone people ***** about is a lie. The "good" guys who wind up put in the friend zone end up there because they aren't actually good guys. They ingratiate themselves to people and do favors for them while they wait for a moment of vulnerability to make their move and hopefully win over another person's love. If not for their romantic feelings, these "nice guys" wouldn't be doing all of the sucking up that they do. You can be a nice guy without being a deceitful barnacle. Being nice to people does not make you deserving of their love or genitals. Being nice to people should be a given. Make your intentions known, go after what you want, and be willing to face rejection rather than exist within an amorphous friend with feelings relationship. The friend zone makes it sound like being friends with someone of the opposite sex is a bad thing when it really isn't. Friends are great! But people need to come to terms with the fact that romantic feelings are very often not reciprocated in life and that that's okay.
You're one of those heretics who plays Sonic 2 with solo Sonic?
And I thought we were friends.
OT: I can't really add anything new here.
Insofar as "I have feelings for them but they don't for me" is concerned, yes, as far as "I am a perfect gentleman, DATE ME NOW!!!!" is concerned, not really.
I did enjoy all the shadowboxing in this thread against some nebulous Nice Guys (with the capitals). I'm not gonna name anyone here because that will get me a warning, but some of those tirades read like a neckbeard doormat manifesto. What, you think women can't give false signals and then backpaddle for their personal gains? Batou667 gave some easy examples. I can't comment on how common this is, but it's certainly a thing that's happening. Now, the concept has certainly been abused to shift the "blame" for unrequited love on the rejecting party. 'Suppose venting your weltschmerz by assigning blame is the easiest way, even though nobody really is at fault in this situation. Just tough luck.
But you guys keep fighting the good fight and stick it to those Nice Guys in the shadows. Gotta have someone to look down on, right?
I'm of the opinion that the 'friend zone' is a term used by pant-shittingly hateful people when they refuse to acknowledge that other humans are, well, human and not, well, fuckable NPCs or something. If you'll please excuse the wording.
People are allowed to change their mind.
People act stupidly sometimes.
People aren't always sure.
People are allowed to say 'no' or 'I'm not sure'.
People are sometimes scared and flip-flop in their dealings with you.
People are allowed to pursue those are not you.
People sometimes choose to use you right back if they realise you are trying to use them, "Nice" Person.
Yes, it exists. And contrary to what that implies, it's actually the most desirable relationship to have with a woman. A strong romantic relationship can only happen if there is a stronger friendship, so you need to stop looking for a romantic relationship altogether and just make friends with people. After a few years, maybe you'll have a best friend who uplifts and supports you and you do likewise. That friendship must be strong enough to survive romance. If so, ask that person to marry you. The relationship did NOT just become "something more." You're still best friends. That's what a working relationship is. Friendship. You should never try for anything else. Just be friends without hoping for something more. That's the only way you're guaranteed to find someone worth spending the rest of your life with.
In popular culture, friend zone refers to a platonic relationship wherein one person, most commonly a man, wishes to enter into a romantic or sexual relationship, while the other does not.
Going by this definition, yes it exists. It's not uncommon for a person to have romantic feelings for somebody else that are not returned by the object of their desire. "The Friend Zone" is just a more modern term for the long existing thing known as "Unrequited Love".
People tend to lean towards using "Friend Zone" to describe their situation because it's generally considered creepy or too pushy to use the word "Love" until you've already been with together with somebody for some time.
People will insist it doesn't exist based on the faulty logic that some heartbroken sod on the internet used the term as a way to blame the other for not returning their feelings. But the fact is that sometimes one person has romantic feelings for somebody that just wants to be friends.
This. Unrequited love sucks, but it is a part of life and the human condition. It can even get worse if you don't have the courage to be honest with the person that you have an interest in and let them know. Heck there are people that sometimes feel that it is better to be friends and not mention your interest rather than risking the friendship that you have. I'd argue that if you actually have a friendship, then it probably won't be so weak as to be killed off by unreturned romantic affection, but people are hard and people you care about harder still.
So yeah it exists. Just the so called "entitled version" shouldn't. That is just a toxic and foolish attitude to have toward other human beings.
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