Privately funded school, change isn't likely. Good luck. It would be awesome if you you kids could pick items for your uniform.
It's a private school, they can do pretty much whatever they want. The only way you have a chance is if you get the people who pay the school, the parents, to sign the petition. They don't give a rat's ass about what the students want, they want to get money, which means they only care what the parents think.orangeban said:So Escapist, lately at my school, I've been organizing a petition. The aim of the petition is to get a gender-neutral uniform put in place. Currently, girls have to wear skirts and boys trousers (along with various other differences), but I hope to change that. Ideally I want a system where you can pick and choose between either uniform, but I'd also settle for a single gender-neutral uniform. I plan to send this petition to the powers-that-be in my school, along with a letter detailing my arguments, these arguments being:
1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.
2) Sex-specific uniform discriminates against transgendered pupils and forces them to conform with their birth-assigned sex.
3) To deny certain clothing to some pupils because of their random event at their birth, is discriminatory.
If you want to know more details, I go to a private Scottish school, my petition has about 100 signatures in a school with around 800 kids, and this kinda thing is unprecedented.
What do you think?
Edit: Thought of a way to make my points better.
1) Not only does it divide pupils, but it encourages people to look at and treat the two sexes differently.
2) By having a gender-neutral uniform, this firstly de-emphasises genders importance so a transgendered/gender-confused pupil would feel less self-conciouss about it all, and it would make it easier for them to experiment.
Double Edit: Please note that what I really want is a system where you can pick certain items of clothing from either of the current uniforms. I do not want a single gender-neutral uniform, but I'd prefer that to the current system.
Well, firstly, girls do have to wear skirts in winter, so there's that I suppose.Naeo said:To answer the original question: no, I don't think you stand much of a chance unless you get a few hundred more signatures.
Second, your blowing this way the hell out of proportions. If the girls are required to wear skirts and do not have any other options, yes, get that stupid shit changed because skirts in cold weather sucks and that's a legitimate grievance. However, I have never once in my entire life seen an instance where someone was "treated differently" for dressing like as girl/boy when that's what they were. I have never seen someone's clothing--unless someone was in full drag--negatively affect how people act towards someone, and even then, it's usually just stuff done/said in obvious jest. Also, the accusation that uniforms "split the school into factions" and is a divisive element amongst the student body seems like a groundless and way overblown accusation. Having gone to a middle and high school with gender-based dress codes (skirts/short/trousers for girls, shorts/trousers for boys, everyone has to wear the same polo shirts), there was never once an instance of the student body being divided as a result of the dress code differing between the two sexes.
And as for "it enforces treating the sexes differently": I dare you to find one high school or middle school boy who does not want to be treated like a boy, or girl who does not want to be treated like a girl. And on top of that, there factually are differences in the sexes. There's the obvious anatomical ones (we guys tend lack those wonderful things called "breasts," for one) but there are also psychological ones having to do with the nature of social interaction/posturing/etc, emotional development, and so on, which have been pretty well established as innate if you grow up in Western society (I admit I am lacking on specific studies to cite, though my psychology textbook from a few years back did make mention to these things). Quite frankly, I see no reason not to treat them differently because they ARE different. Neither male or female is inherently better or worse than the other, but they are most definitely different.
So in short: you probably won't win without overwhelming support from the student body (and probably from parents, too), because your claims are kind of overblown and making a huge deal out of something that isn't that big of a deal. Unless your school is some sort of collection of people who do not grow up exposed to the outside world, I seriously doubt your grievances are legitimate.
Forum decided to eat my post.orangeban said:So Escapist, lately at my school, I've been organizing a petition. The aim of the petition is to get a gender-neutral uniform put in place. Currently, girls have to wear skirts and boys trousers (along with various other differences), but I hope to change that. Ideally I want a system where you can pick and choose between either uniform, but I'd also settle for a single gender-neutral uniform. I plan to send this petition to the powers-that-be in my school, along with a letter detailing my arguments, these arguments being:
1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.
2) Sex-specific uniform discriminates against transgendered pupils and forces them to conform with their birth-assigned sex.
3) To deny certain clothing to some pupils because of their random event at their birth, is discriminatory.
If you want to know more details, I go to a private Scottish school, my petition has about 100 signatures in a school with around 800 kids, and this kinda thing is unprecedented.
What do you think?
I doubt your school will care, unless actual complaints are given, I would suggest contacting a feminist group of some kind, as they are more likely to make them sweat in their boots, and get things changed.
Edit: Thought of a way to make my points better.
1) Not only does it divide pupils, but it encourages people to look at and treat the two sexes differently.
2) By having a gender-neutral uniform, this firstly de-emphasises genders importance so a transgendered/gender-confused pupil would feel less self-conciouss about it all, and it would make it easier for them to experiment.
Double Edit: Please note that what I really want is a system where you can pick certain items of clothing from either of the current uniforms. I do not want a single gender-neutral uniform, but I'd prefer that to the current system.
Oh, so I guess it's a yes, then.orangeban said:If you want to know more details, I go to a private Scottish school, my petition has about 100 signatures in a school with around 800 kids, and this kinda thing is unprecedented.
uniforms at work are fine. kids should be able to wear (within reason) whatever they want in school, though.fleurdust said:I miss having a uniform, I hate having to think of new outfits every day. Love that I have a work uniform
Wait... you think that acknowledging the empirical, concrete reality of there being two sexes is divisive and sexist? That's so painfully politically correct my head hurts.orangeban said:1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.
2) Sex-specific uniform discriminates against transgendered pupils and forces them to conform with their birth-assigned sex.
3) To deny certain clothing to some pupils because of their random event at their birth, is discriminatory.
Maybe, but first job after this is to remove the religion from assemblies (we all have to carry hymnbooks, madness!)Batou667 said:Wait... you think that acknowledging the empirical, concrete reality of there being two sexes is divisive and sexist? That's so painfully politically correct my head hurts.orangeban said:1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.
2) Sex-specific uniform discriminates against transgendered pupils and forces them to conform with their birth-assigned sex.
3) To deny certain clothing to some pupils because of their random event at their birth, is discriminatory.
Besides which, we have gender-neutral clothing: shirt and trousers. That's what a good third-to-half of the girls wore when I was at school.
Additionally: you're in Scotland, if ever there was a race that routinely dressed boys in skirts anyway, it's you guys!
Why are you so determined to go on a needless crusade like this? Will you be petitioning for unisex toilets and sports changing rooms, too? Perhaps revise all the textbooks to use ungendered pronouns?
Here in the UK, the youth fashion market is advertised so aggressively (particularly to the working-class, perversely) that many children would quite literally bankrupt their parents by demanding new outfits every fortnight. Insisting on uniform goes some way to providing social equality in schools, it helps the poorer kids not get picked on quite so much and also has benefits in giving the kids a common identity. Also, school trips (especially in inner-city schools) would turn into a city-wide game of Hide and Seek if the kids were all in civvies.theriddlen said:Also, I never got the point of school uniforms existence. In my country we don't have them and nothing bad happens because of it.
Okay, wearing skirts in winter is bullshit, yes. Get that changed if you can.orangeban said:-snip-
But school is in a unique position to change society (since it prepares the next generation), and therefore is in a unique position to destroy the wall that stands between the sexes, that says that some clothing is acceptable for one sex and some clothing isn't, as well as other bullshit gender roles.Naeo said:Okay, wearing skirts in winter is bullshit, yes. Get that changed if you can.orangeban said:-snip-
However: I fail to see how different uniforms encourages stereotyping and an assumption of behavior based on gender roles. That's something that, as has been said before, is based on the sex of the person in question rather than what clothing they wear, even less so if they're just wearing normal guy/girl clothes. Also, saying "girls wear skirts, guys wear trousers" doesn't encourage people to stereotype. What would encourage people to stereotype would be "girls wear low-cut tops and short skirts, guys wear wifebeaters and jeans fifteen sizes too large". That type of clothing has specific connotations and expectations attached to it--a skirt, in and of itself, does not.
Also, railing against gender role reinforcement as inherently bad--which sounds like what you're doing--is foolish. Gender roles are necessary in at least some extent to fit in to society--if you don't care about that or that's not important, then that's cool, but for most people, the ways you are expected to act as a man or a woman are important in interpersonal relations. However, in the real world, nobody much cares--it's about how you act as a person, as a professional and so on which transcends any concept of gender identity.
No, that would totally undermine my case. I'm arguing for gender equality here, and for girls to be granted extra freedoms but boys not to be goes totally against my aims.Naeo said:ADDENDUM: you could definitely stand a chance of getting parts of the uniform code changed if you change your justifications for changing them. Most of the school administration, unless they eat and breathe every extreme of political correctness, will dismiss your justifications and probably use that to dismiss your whole case. However, if you try to get the uniform code changed to, say, allow girls to wear trousers and/or allow guys to wear shorts or whatever on purely pragmatic reasons (as stated, "winter is cold" and maybe "summer is hot" if guys have to wear only trousers all year), you would stand a much better chance. However, turning this into a moral/social justice issue is likely to cause your case more harm than good.orangeban said:-snip-
Can you prove that it has this effect?orangeban said:1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.
Are there actualy that many transgendered pupils in your school?2) Sex-specific uniform discriminates against transgendered pupils and forces them to conform with their birth-assigned sex.
This is sort of like saying that to deny boys make-up or to deny girls a penis because of a random event at birth is discriminatory.3) To deny certain clothing to some pupils because of their random event at their birth, is discriminatory.
Again, it could be argued that the two sexes are very different.1) Not only does it divide pupils, but it encourages people to look at and treat the two sexes differently.
A uniform is there to create a unified look amongst the pupils and to reflect the school's pride and discipline, it isn't there to help you experiment with your sexuality (that is something you can do in your own time, not during class).2) By having a gender-neutral uniform, this firstly de-emphasises genders importance so a transgendered/gender-confused pupil would feel less self-conciouss about it all, and it would make it easier for them to experiment.
Well, denying boys make-up would be discriminatory, but denying girls a penis isn't, because no-one actively made the choice to deny them a penis.Iron Mal said:Allow me to play devil's advocate here and give counter-arguements to your points (in case you find yourself having to justify or defend them).
Can you prove that it has this effect?orangeban said:1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.
It's nice and all to say that it does this but can you back this up with any research or evidence or studies?
Otherwise it could be argued that there are already differences between boys and girls, does a different uniform really make that much difference when there are already lots of other things that seperate them from one another (physically, mentally and socially).
Are there actualy that many transgendered pupils in your school?2) Sex-specific uniform discriminates against transgendered pupils and forces them to conform with their birth-assigned sex.
If there isn't a statistically significant transgendered population then it's somewhat doubtful anyone will make the effort to accomidate them (a new dress code does require a large amount of money and time to be spent not just by staff but also parents).
This is sort of like saying that to deny boys make-up or to deny girls a penis because of a random event at birth is discriminatory.3) To deny certain clothing to some pupils because of their random event at their birth, is discriminatory.
Unfortunately you seem to be dedicated to the idea that 'because it's descriminatory' is a strong arguement on it's own but it does need to be remembered that bias and discrimination isn't always a bad thing.orangeban said:Well, denying boys make-up would be discriminatory, but denying girls a penis isn't, because no-one actively made the choice to deny them a penis.
Edit: I'd answer the rest of your points, but unfortunately I've got to go. But I have taken them into consideration.
There have been studies that claim students can concentrate better with uniform, and no uniform can emphasise the different groups and potentially cause bullying.Vykrel said:personally, i think uniforms are freaking stupid to begin with. uniforms in school stifle creativity and originality. i cant help but think of robots when i see mass amounts of students in uniforms. the ones wearing pants are male units, and the ones in skirts are female units.