Poll: Metroid: Other M killed Samus
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Actually, murder is not defined by government. It is a term that is several hundred years old. The meaning exists independent of government definition.LordNue said:
Murder in religion
This section may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Please improve this section if you can. (July 2010)
One of the oldest known prohibitions against murder appears in the Sumerian Code of Ur-Nammu written sometime between 2100 and 2050 BC. The code states, "If a man commits a murder, that man must be killed."[citation needed]
In Abrahamic religions, the prohibition against murder is one of the Ten Commandments given by God to Moses in (Exodus: 20v13) and (Deuteronomy 5v17) (See Murder in the Bible). The Vulgate and subsequent early English translations of the Bible used the term secretly killeth his neighbor or smiteth his neighbour secretly rather than murder for the Latin clam percusserit proximum.[11][12]
Later editions such as Young's Literal Translation and the World English Bible have translated the Latin occides simply as murder rather than the alternatives of kill, assassinate, fall upon or slay.[citation needed] Christian churches have some doctrinal differences about what forms of homicide are prohibited biblically, though all agree murder is.[citation needed]
In Islam according to the Qur?an, one of the greatest sins is to kill a human being who has committed no fault. "For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind."[Qur'an 5:32] "Those who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. "[Qur'an 25:68]
-wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Murder_in_religion
Murder is not defined by government. For example: Let's say that the current government of a monarchy that believes in divine right defines murder as the act of killing any government official, but declared that the act of killing a civilian is perfectly fine as long as it is carried by a government agent, i.e., a representative of the divine right. The government's attempt to define murder this way does not make it so. Murder, simply put, is often used as a legal term, but this is an inaccurate usage. It is fundamentally a term used in ethics, not legality. How a government chooses to define murder does not define it's nature.
The problem with defining murder as being whatever the government says it is, is that you are literally implying that morality and human ethics are defined by the government. You are implying that whether morally abhorrent acts such as killing innocent people or raping children is good or bad is defined by the government. It is extremely impractical to say that morality is defined by government when so many governments in the world are dictatorships.
I Personally never wanted to see voice acting in the Metroid games. I LOVED Metroid Prime 1 and 2, but i couldn't stand 3. I loved the atmosphere the first two had but 3 always came off cheesy and forced. I'd like to see the people that said Nintendo should pull this crap so I can punch them in the face.Aura Guardian said:
Riiiiiigh. So IMMEDIATELY after Nintendo monumentally fucks up giving a voice to one of their star silent protagonists, you expect them to repeat the mistake? Also, you are using a fallacious straw man argument that people are disappointed JUST BECAUSE they speak.DaBozz said:
No. Fuck no.
People are pissed for WHAT she says! Beyond mere fan expectation, looking at her objectively what she now says and does makes her an incredibly unlike-able and un-endearing character.
I don't get people's obsession with having a chatty protagonist for VIDEO GAMES! You are controlling the action, the more they do in cutscene that YOU can't do in gameplay just reduces immersion. Most games (except RTS games) are told from 2nd person perspective and a quiet or silent protagonist aids that greatly. Chatty protagonist can lead to huge handbreak turns from 2nd to third person perspective and with monologuing in there can swerve it back to first person perspective (I'm not talking camera position, I'm talking narrative structure).
Games are NOT supposed to be just TV series with sections of gameplay replacing the commercial breaks. Cutscenes are supposed to supplement the gameplay, not the other way around.
Ideally the story should not be told in mini-movies but by the game itself.
Video Games continued resorting to Cutscenes reminds me of the early days of Film where they'd literally cut to a title card spelling out what is happening in prose; falling back on an older form of expression as expression in this form is so unfamiliar.
I'm not saying developers shouldn't use it, just that it shouldn't be depended upon. Star Wars' opening crawl is a great way to start a movie but if every 20 minutes there was a new text crawl to explain the plot that would be too much. Games should have an opening cinematic and very few after that and usually only to bookend gameplay rather than punctuate it.
I find it kind of sad that one of the strong women in gaming has been reduced to a stereotypical japanese game-female full of emotional conflict, angst and an inability to be decisive unless controlled. Would it really have been hard to make Samus come off as the cold as ice bounty hunter that we all play her as? To make her a strong and independent woman?
Perhaps I am exaggerating, but the feminist in me gets a little upset when things like this happen. Why did Samus Aran have to be characterized as a fourteen year girl?
Perhaps I am exaggerating, but the feminist in me gets a little upset when things like this happen. Why did Samus Aran have to be characterized as a fourteen year girl?
Return of Samus wasn't that bad. Hard to get around maybe, but not bad. This strange Prime Hunters you mention though, what is it? It sounds familiar, as though I forcibly removed from my mind, replacing it with memories of better Metroid games that serve a purpose that isn't introducing characters Nintendo wanted to replace Samus with.LordNue said:
Huh. Never noticed that before. That game also served to establish the life cycle of a metroid, which has (sadly) only been used once since at the end of Fusion. Well, as long as you know the ending, you never even have to play Return of Samus either. Just play the beginning of Super Metroid and you're given a free pass to skip it. They really should remake it, though. Maybe in 2.5D. Like Shadow Complex, not what Other M seems to be.LordNue said:
Shadow Complex. The best Metroid game that wasn't a Metroid game.
Y'know, I had a much longer post written up, but all I'm going to say is that the article has some very, very good points. Fusion was a great example of humanizing Samus. Other M, on the other hand, is not. I think if it was a story set earlier in the series, where Samus hadn't already done all of the things she had done - maybe right after she'd left the Federation and started to deal with the space pirates for the first time, then it could have worked. But given that it's placed just after Super Metroid it makes no sense whatsoever. Cowering in front of Ridley, a boss she's killed...what, four times now? Not activating parts of her suit just because it hasn't been authorized? Um, what?
To people who say that Samus never showed any character and that people are only having this reaction because she was blank and mysterious, I wholeheartedly disagree. She did have character - there are scenes in the Prime series where she shows emotion, and again I have to point to Fusion as the game that did the best job of showing more of who she is without changing her character. But Other M takes almost everything that has been established about her at this point in the series and just ignores it at best while reversing it at worst. The Samus of Other M in no way matches with the Samus that's actually gone through the events of all the other games that chronologically take place before it. She's not the Samus that's basically committed genocide (or is that xenocide?) against two species, nor is she the one that's ventured into the depths of numerous planets and locales filled with enemies and come back out alive and more powerful than she was when she went in. She is at best the Samus that would have been just as she was starting her career as a bounty hunter, at which point those emotions would have made more sense. Obeying chains of command, fear at facing these enemies, and fear of seeing Ridley, the one who murdered her family and left her to die as a child. But the Samus that's faced those issues, that's persevered and endured and managed it by herself while earning a galaxy-wide reputation as being one of the best and most famous bounty hunters? No. That's not Samus, and I'm very surprised that others seem to think that it is.
To people who say that Samus never showed any character and that people are only having this reaction because she was blank and mysterious, I wholeheartedly disagree. She did have character - there are scenes in the Prime series where she shows emotion, and again I have to point to Fusion as the game that did the best job of showing more of who she is without changing her character. But Other M takes almost everything that has been established about her at this point in the series and just ignores it at best while reversing it at worst. The Samus of Other M in no way matches with the Samus that's actually gone through the events of all the other games that chronologically take place before it. She's not the Samus that's basically committed genocide (or is that xenocide?) against two species, nor is she the one that's ventured into the depths of numerous planets and locales filled with enemies and come back out alive and more powerful than she was when she went in. She is at best the Samus that would have been just as she was starting her career as a bounty hunter, at which point those emotions would have made more sense. Obeying chains of command, fear at facing these enemies, and fear of seeing Ridley, the one who murdered her family and left her to die as a child. But the Samus that's faced those issues, that's persevered and endured and managed it by herself while earning a galaxy-wide reputation as being one of the best and most famous bounty hunters? No. That's not Samus, and I'm very surprised that others seem to think that it is.
I say no, only because we can all just pretend this shit never happened. Now if they continue portraying her as such I'll probably never pick up another Metroid title again, because this is a turn for her character that is absolute crap.
Giving her emotions I can live with, giving her emotions that don't make a lick of freaking sense, like fear or the willingness to obey orders outside of "go here, kill everyone that isn't one of us, come back, get cash" not so much. Given that this woman has a mole on her face, wears high heals, and behaves like some sort of drone, when she isn't being a whiny *****, I'm going to assume this was a clone of Samus Aran that had bits of it's brain replaced with poorly-designed electronics.
Giving her emotions I can live with, giving her emotions that don't make a lick of freaking sense, like fear or the willingness to obey orders outside of "go here, kill everyone that isn't one of us, come back, get cash" not so much. Given that this woman has a mole on her face, wears high heals, and behaves like some sort of drone, when she isn't being a whiny *****, I'm going to assume this was a clone of Samus Aran that had bits of it's brain replaced with poorly-designed electronics.
I haven't played Other M and with regards to the Metroid series, I really don't care. I don't care about Samus and her expoilts and I don't think I ever will so I have no fan bias coming into this, but I have been reading about this and listening to some reviews and I've decided that I can't really comment on what I think about the character until I've played. I've heard and read reviews and to me it sounds like she completely lacks any sort of backbone and is over all pathetic but without playing it I can't really say much.
What I can say is that if you perfer this more emotional, submisive, wounded pet rabbit of a character over the stoic I think you seriously have to reconsider what you view the role of women in media as because it really doesn't come across as healthy.
When Square Enix write a brooding, emo, weakling of a character who is male into their narative and perhaps further annoy us by making them the main character we ***** and moan about how annoying they are and how their angst ruins them and how many times we've seen this character before and... blah, blah,blah. Short story is that we hate these angsty shit stains, but when a female character starts showing these exact same traist she is suddenly well developed and deep, much more interesting and oh so well written...
Yeah, fuck off. If you believe that weak angsty emo males suck while weak angsty emo females are great you should probably think real hard about that and what that means. Actually, no; I'll do it for you. It means that you aren't satisfied with a female character unless they are submisive and weak, you can't handle or believe a strong female character and may even feel threatend by their existence. The thought of a female better than you makes you feel uncomfortable so when you see a female character as weak as jelly you consider them 'better' because the alternative discomforts you so greatly.
Maybe I'm wrong, though? Maybe you just hate the stoic or maybe you like both male and female bitches, in which case there is no help for you. In the end though, I'm not you and I don't know why you dislike something but I'd be willing to bet hard money that the reason why some of you like the new Samus is for the reasons I gave above.
Theres also the fact that the character has a massive disconnect from the gameplay, which is just fucking stupid. I suppose that in some games that can't be avoided but here if feels like they were aiming for it.
Fans who hate the new Samus don't neccesarily have to worry about future games though. They can always ignore this game and change it up next time.
I have to link to Spoony's review [http://spoonyexperiment.com/page/3/] (scroll down a bit). I have a feeling that when I eventually get around to renting this I'll only end up agreeing with him.
What I can say is that if you perfer this more emotional, submisive, wounded pet rabbit of a character over the stoic I think you seriously have to reconsider what you view the role of women in media as because it really doesn't come across as healthy.
When Square Enix write a brooding, emo, weakling of a character who is male into their narative and perhaps further annoy us by making them the main character we ***** and moan about how annoying they are and how their angst ruins them and how many times we've seen this character before and... blah, blah,blah. Short story is that we hate these angsty shit stains, but when a female character starts showing these exact same traist she is suddenly well developed and deep, much more interesting and oh so well written...
Yeah, fuck off. If you believe that weak angsty emo males suck while weak angsty emo females are great you should probably think real hard about that and what that means. Actually, no; I'll do it for you. It means that you aren't satisfied with a female character unless they are submisive and weak, you can't handle or believe a strong female character and may even feel threatend by their existence. The thought of a female better than you makes you feel uncomfortable so when you see a female character as weak as jelly you consider them 'better' because the alternative discomforts you so greatly.
Maybe I'm wrong, though? Maybe you just hate the stoic or maybe you like both male and female bitches, in which case there is no help for you. In the end though, I'm not you and I don't know why you dislike something but I'd be willing to bet hard money that the reason why some of you like the new Samus is for the reasons I gave above.
Theres also the fact that the character has a massive disconnect from the gameplay, which is just fucking stupid. I suppose that in some games that can't be avoided but here if feels like they were aiming for it.
Fans who hate the new Samus don't neccesarily have to worry about future games though. They can always ignore this game and change it up next time.
I have to link to Spoony's review [http://spoonyexperiment.com/page/3/] (scroll down a bit). I have a feeling that when I eventually get around to renting this I'll only end up agreeing with him.
you know what i don't get?
how ridley hasn't developed any psychological problems, i mean he got exploded and disintegrated multiple times. if that were me i'd have some massive irrational fears of everything orange.
how ridley hasn't developed any psychological problems, i mean he got exploded and disintegrated multiple times. if that were me i'd have some massive irrational fears of everything orange.
Other M was an experiment. In a lot of people's eyes, a failed experiment.
To be frank, I only really played Super Metroid.
I can see why they added a voice- Speechless characters are alright in 8-bit, but when you're trying to tell a story with cutscenes and everything, YOU NEED YOYR CHARACTER TO BLOODY TALK.
To be frank, I only really played Super Metroid.
I can see why they added a voice- Speechless characters are alright in 8-bit, but when you're trying to tell a story with cutscenes and everything, YOU NEED YOYR CHARACTER TO BLOODY TALK.
What I see is a character development. I haven't seen any arguments that include this. Ridley was one of her toughest enemies and she found out that he just returned from the dead. I'd be pretty scared, too!
She later on gave herself permission to use her items when Adam was not around.
But then I also see that she is Lady Obvious more than Samus Aran. She already was a bounty hunter, she didn't need someone's approval. It's fine that she was a bitter little girl and turned out to be a Barby doll. (I saw that one coming seeing that Team Ninja did that.)
And what's up with the slooooow walking? You know nothing is going to happen! GAAAAAH!
Also: Retro Studios still deserve some credit. Other M looks good, but Metroid Prime was still a milestone in graphics.
Back then, seeing Samus without her suit was a reward.
Now, it's just and excuse to show her cry or to look at boobs.
She later on gave herself permission to use her items when Adam was not around.
But then I also see that she is Lady Obvious more than Samus Aran. She already was a bounty hunter, she didn't need someone's approval. It's fine that she was a bitter little girl and turned out to be a Barby doll. (I saw that one coming seeing that Team Ninja did that.)
And what's up with the slooooow walking? You know nothing is going to happen! GAAAAAH!
Also: Retro Studios still deserve some credit. Other M looks good, but Metroid Prime was still a milestone in graphics.
Back then, seeing Samus without her suit was a reward.
Now, it's just and excuse to show her cry or to look at boobs.
Strong, silent characters have been staple for ages. check westerns. The thing is, if you're gonna reveal what they're like it better be mindblowing and be much better than what any fan could imagine...it isnt that hard, just introduce a bunch of new mythos that the fans couldnt have foreseen yet fit perfectly, and define their intentions well.
I know not many people followed the Legacy of Kain series to it's entirety, but I'd say something close to what Samus needed was the way Kain was re-introduced as a main character in Defiance, in fact LOK series was incredibly convoluted in it's mythos yet it's story (gameplay was a different thing) never failed to amaze and surpass the imagination of it's meticulous fans.
I dont think Samus was taken from a 1-d character to a 3d character, she was taken from an undefined character to a 2-d character...a badass with daddy issues. Really, as a whole Other M seemed to me like it was trying to make Nitendo's MetalGearSolid out of Metroid. All the convoluted plot, the incredible amount of exposition...not even MGS does it THAT bad, the whole thumbs down thing was laughable...even gave me a whiff of Ocelot's handgestur'd thing (Remeber adam's goodbye? kinda like Ocelot's death in MGS4). Actually, now that I think about it I believe what people expected of Samus was pretty much that she behaved like Snake. a Badass with some traumas, failings, regrets...but that in the end knew how to pick herself up and has picked up a very mature view on life from all her adventures. Actually, MGS' resident baddas blonde, the Boss' personality would probably have fit Samus pretty well. Not that I'm saying MGS mythos is better off, MGS4 was far more of a disappointment than Other M in my book.
I think we're just slowly finding out all these game directors we regard as geniuses are more juvenile and failable than we'd like to believe, and specially we're finding out they'll sell out our heros for whatever the big wigs tell them the market "needs"
I know not many people followed the Legacy of Kain series to it's entirety, but I'd say something close to what Samus needed was the way Kain was re-introduced as a main character in Defiance, in fact LOK series was incredibly convoluted in it's mythos yet it's story (gameplay was a different thing) never failed to amaze and surpass the imagination of it's meticulous fans.
I dont think Samus was taken from a 1-d character to a 3d character, she was taken from an undefined character to a 2-d character...a badass with daddy issues. Really, as a whole Other M seemed to me like it was trying to make Nitendo's MetalGearSolid out of Metroid. All the convoluted plot, the incredible amount of exposition...not even MGS does it THAT bad, the whole thumbs down thing was laughable...even gave me a whiff of Ocelot's handgestur'd thing (Remeber adam's goodbye? kinda like Ocelot's death in MGS4). Actually, now that I think about it I believe what people expected of Samus was pretty much that she behaved like Snake. a Badass with some traumas, failings, regrets...but that in the end knew how to pick herself up and has picked up a very mature view on life from all her adventures. Actually, MGS' resident baddas blonde, the Boss' personality would probably have fit Samus pretty well. Not that I'm saying MGS mythos is better off, MGS4 was far more of a disappointment than Other M in my book.
I think we're just slowly finding out all these game directors we regard as geniuses are more juvenile and failable than we'd like to believe, and specially we're finding out they'll sell out our heros for whatever the big wigs tell them the market "needs"
adding character is a good idea, but I really dont want to play a whiny angsty little emo :/
how weak can you actually design her personality?
I mean, of course can she care about this and that, but not in this way, and stop saying the word "BABY" IT MAKES ME INSANE!!!!
how weak can you actually design her personality?
I mean, of course can she care about this and that, but not in this way, and stop saying the word "BABY" IT MAKES ME INSANE!!!!
I can only hope that once people calm down a little they'll realize, as I did, that what we are faulting Samus's characterization for is more about flash than substance.
Compare Samus to Naked Snake. Naked Snake's personal story centered around his "mommy" issues regarding the Boss. Snake mopes in MGS3 more than Samus does in OM; he even goes through a total breakdown that Samus never even approaches the level of -- and during it he even has to be saved by a woman, who literally helps carry him. He gets saved countless times by women: How many times did the Boss stop one of her allies from shooting him, or let him go when she could have killed him? How many times did she utterly own him? How many times did Snake keep on screwing up all throughout MGS3, far more than Samus did in Other M? How many times did he feel totally outclassed by the Boss, in a way Samus never felt by Adam? (As I recall, the most Samus ever credited Adam for was keeping a cooler head about life-or-death decisions.)
By contrast, going just by what we actually see happening in their stories, Samus behaves as much if not more badass than Snake. She physically whines less, breaks down less, gets saved less, kicks more ass...
So why the differing treatment? At first I thought it was sexism -- that Samus, being a designated "strong woman", could not be allowed to show weakness. At first. But I now realize that it's even more shallow than that:
It's the pitch of her voice -- too high, we say. It's the inflections in her speech -- too monotone, we say. It's the way she looks -- too young, we say. It's the soliloquies she is not actually speaking to anyone -- too whiny, we say, even though it is we who are prying into her most private thoughts (albeit involuntarily). It's the script, which was left literally translated instead of getting a proper treatment. It's because she overuses the word "Baby". (Seriously? Seriously.)
All ultimately shallow reasons, and totally unfair to attribute to Samus the person.
Now I am not defending Other M in terms of its quality of storytelling, I am only defending Samus as a character. It's still fair to say Other M presents her (unfairly) as whiny, the same way a deceptively edited interview can make anyone look bad, but it is NOT fair to say she actually is whiny, because she most certainly is not. That's all I'm trying to say: It's not her fault.
Compare Samus to Naked Snake. Naked Snake's personal story centered around his "mommy" issues regarding the Boss. Snake mopes in MGS3 more than Samus does in OM; he even goes through a total breakdown that Samus never even approaches the level of -- and during it he even has to be saved by a woman, who literally helps carry him. He gets saved countless times by women: How many times did the Boss stop one of her allies from shooting him, or let him go when she could have killed him? How many times did she utterly own him? How many times did Snake keep on screwing up all throughout MGS3, far more than Samus did in Other M? How many times did he feel totally outclassed by the Boss, in a way Samus never felt by Adam? (As I recall, the most Samus ever credited Adam for was keeping a cooler head about life-or-death decisions.)
By contrast, going just by what we actually see happening in their stories, Samus behaves as much if not more badass than Snake. She physically whines less, breaks down less, gets saved less, kicks more ass...
So why the differing treatment? At first I thought it was sexism -- that Samus, being a designated "strong woman", could not be allowed to show weakness. At first. But I now realize that it's even more shallow than that:
It's the pitch of her voice -- too high, we say. It's the inflections in her speech -- too monotone, we say. It's the way she looks -- too young, we say. It's the soliloquies she is not actually speaking to anyone -- too whiny, we say, even though it is we who are prying into her most private thoughts (albeit involuntarily). It's the script, which was left literally translated instead of getting a proper treatment. It's because she overuses the word "Baby". (Seriously? Seriously.)
All ultimately shallow reasons, and totally unfair to attribute to Samus the person.
Now I am not defending Other M in terms of its quality of storytelling, I am only defending Samus as a character. It's still fair to say Other M presents her (unfairly) as whiny, the same way a deceptively edited interview can make anyone look bad, but it is NOT fair to say she actually is whiny, because she most certainly is not. That's all I'm trying to say: It's not her fault.