Poll: Metroid: Other M killed Samus
- Thread starter sargeant15
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Let's not be so specific. Fans can never be pleased in general. When you like something, it's generally because you can or want to identify with it, and once you do that, you create something of your own version of it. Not necessarily what the game creators intended, but what you wanted them to portray. After that, it's all gonna be screwy. There will be a million threads like this when Duke Nukem Forever comes out(Even though we know it won't).LeonLethality said:
OP: No Samus was not ruined by Team Ninja. It's not unusual for Nintendo to completely break continuity in their games. Zelda hardly makes sense any more, as far as a concise timeline from game to game goes. The next Metroid game can be completely bad ass and everyone will forget about this game. Or at least they'll all stop bitching about it ruining the series.
Honestly, it's a topic I'm not sure I want to touch on that much in a thread about Metroid, but I'll give a summary, which will touch on the "Games are Art" theory. The problem with games are that people don't treat them like other media out there. They aren't like TV shows because you can play them at any time, which avoids the convenience of slotting them at a later time slot. They aren't as cencored as movies, because really, ESRB isn't law, it's a guideline, unlike movie ratings which are law. You can't sell something rated XXX to minors or you'll be shut down. Sell a M-rated or PEGI 18 game to a minor and you get a slap on the wrist and a small fine. Unlike books, the content is also visual, so imagination has no part in what is protrayed, thus needs to be cencored, unlike books which require previous experiences of vast details which can be tedious to go through if the subject matter is dry. Music falls under movies, porno magasines as well, etc etc.Aiddon said:
The fact is, when it comes to video games, we're very childish. We want our cake and to eat it too. This is by no means not the fault of large companies as well. With the amount of information we can glean from technology and registration, Xbox Live shouldn't be seeing anything under the age of 17 on something Like Halo or Modern Warfare 2, simply because they should be banned for breaking the ESRB or PEGI ratings. But because these aren't solid law, there's not much reason to enforce them if you're still getting your extra $60 from another sale. The fact is, if we keep treating video games like we are, we don't deserve to have them.
However, that's neither here nor there. The point is that in all medias, people will always complain about characterizations not going the way they wished. People needs to grow up and get over themselves instead of going "ZOMG SAMUS SUX NIAO WISH NINTENDO DIES SKAAMOTO IS STOOPID!" (please, hyperbole, no flames) and actually think about how the entire game is presented. So what if they didn't use subtle analogy for some things? That's their choice. The personality still got through. Ignore it and move on because, really, it's not that big a deal. Most of her stuff was introspective so she's still the silent badass for the most part, and eys she does break down but my reason has already been stated twice. Go check my other posts if you want my opinion on that bear trap.
... that doesn't explain why she would be afraid. At all. She had already killed Ridley many times over, we can then assume that she realizes he has just been flying away and not dying. Why exactly would she suddenly think he didn't fly away again when Zebes blew up? And wouldn't she want revenge on Ridley anyway, the one who attacked the space colony at the start of Super Metroid? If they're going to give her this motherly attachment to the metroid hatchling (her bond couldn't have been too strong if she was willing to just ditch it for resarch but anyway) then maybe she should've showed the other side of those motherly emotions when given (another) opportunity to trash Ridley who set the wheels in motion that caused the hatchling to die. You telling me if your child was ever kidnapped, then killed saving your life by the guy in charge, you wouldn't jump at the opportunity to exact some revenge? There is no defense for her acting like a coward in front of Ridley.HellsingerAngel said:
When something is done wrong, it is done wrong. People who jump onto the fans claiming it is personal opinion simply that is what they happen to like can be objectionably explained to why they went wrong on this particular game.hobo_welf said:
Let's keep this short and quick: A game should never have to rely on exposition to help a player understand what is happening in the game, it should rely on previously inserted elements to carry that weight for them, player: "there are experiments going on in this facility? and that tube is broken? Something must have excaped!" The fewer words stated the better, second would be to have the characters in-game actions, match their personality and appearance. I've already stated that even if Kratos never said a word or never had a cutscene, you still knew he was a psycopath by his appearance, and the way he fights, whereas in other m, Samus can grab onto a giant eyeball before shooting it, shove her gun down other creatures throats, and intentionally get swallowed so she could blow open the monsters stomach, and we are expected to believe inside the suit she is a skinny, borderline helpless woman incapable of making strategic decisions for herself.
Longer than I wanted, but the point is to make the character fit the bill, and in that regard, whether you like it or not (go right ahead), other m falls short.
What, you would rather have a robot with tits? She had no character before the game, now she does. Literally, everything said about what her character is has been inferred. NOTHING in the games shows her having even a little personality. But because she isn't a man hating ice queen that does everything on her own, people think that she is a step backward for strong female characters in video games. Grow up.
it may not have killed samus, but its definately a black mark on the series. i liked it when she wouldnt talk, i could put in a personality i thought she would have myself. i got super pissed when i found out they gave her actual dialogue.
Sweet, discussion. Alright, here's goes...Racthoh said:
1. Ridley was presumed "dead" when she had beaten him on Zebes. No one ever actually sees Ridley fly off so you can be sure he was beaten to within an inch of his life.
2. The planet blew up. Nothing Samus has in her aersenal can blow up an entire planet, let alone deal enough damage to come close to that.
3. The game can effectively be beaten within the time span of three hours (set by game devs via bikini Samus) so we'll say that's roughly the time span the mission takes.
4. Motherbrain is directly after Ridley, which means he has about 30 minutes breathing time.
So what you're suggesting is that Ridley can recover from a near death experience within thirty minutes to escape a blast radius of an a planetary core explosion? Really there's two explinations:
1. Ridley can survive that blast, even in his near-death state.
2. Ridley can't survive that, but has the ability to recover enough to escape said blast radius to recouperate, when within thirty minutes time, Samus barely makes her own escape powered by a Metroid.
So really, either Ridley can become empowered close to that of a Metroid without the frailty of being a Metroid, or he's just that unkillable and can survive a planetary explosion. Either way, it means nothing that Samus can throw at him will even dent him, and if I was Samus, I'd be really worried about a guy that can avoid being killed by a planet exploding (really, I can't stress the entire planet exploding enough because it'd be that huge) through either of those means. I mean, we're talking about an explosion that would probably only be matched by if we fired all our nuclear warheads at once. Even then I doubt that would be even close to the amount of power that blast would create. In any case, Samus does get her act together and fights Ridley, and wins! If you read the rest of my post, you'd see the explination as to why that's a great thing and now the narrative of the game is told within gameplay as much as within cutscenes. Her initial running away is certainly justified within the context of what had happened previously with Ridley.
The characterization was off in that Samus looked at Adam as a daddy too much. In reality I suppose in Fusion Samus did talk about him as such, but I always figured the hero-worship caame from his sacrifice, not their actual time in the same unit. Although, he and the black guy were supposedly the only humans she respected and felt respeected by. I felt that this was overdone. The only reason I had to struggle through the game with lesser equipment was because Adam said so. You're a BOUNTY HUNTER! Kill or be killed!
The whole being portrayed as a weaker person thing doesn't fit with what I saw, because the most-cited example is when she freezes up on seeing Ridley. But seriously. Your arch-nemesis keeps coming back no matter what you do to him. Clever escape artist? But then you drop him in lava (again) and proceed to BLOW UP THE PLANET. NO ONE survives that. So when your arch-nemesis who murdered your entire home colony turns out to need more than a detonating planet to kill, would YOU be scared shitless? She's a bounty hunter, but she's human.
Samus is very chatty, uncharacteristic in a Metroid game. Somehow, I actually enjoyed this. "It's her first time having a real voice actor," I thought, "let's let her actually narrate her thoughts Fusion-style." And it did not kill the game for me.
Gameplay was oversimplified in some areas and overcomplicated in others. I hated HAVING to do finishing moves. I LOVED the ability to regen missiles and health, which I always figured she could do since Prime hinted that her suit had interdimensional storage. I hated having to stand still in first person mode. I hated not having access to missiles in 3rd person mode.
Overall, I'm glad I got this game but it's not as good as the Prime trilogy.
The whole being portrayed as a weaker person thing doesn't fit with what I saw, because the most-cited example is when she freezes up on seeing Ridley. But seriously. Your arch-nemesis keeps coming back no matter what you do to him. Clever escape artist? But then you drop him in lava (again) and proceed to BLOW UP THE PLANET. NO ONE survives that. So when your arch-nemesis who murdered your entire home colony turns out to need more than a detonating planet to kill, would YOU be scared shitless? She's a bounty hunter, but she's human.
Samus is very chatty, uncharacteristic in a Metroid game. Somehow, I actually enjoyed this. "It's her first time having a real voice actor," I thought, "let's let her actually narrate her thoughts Fusion-style." And it did not kill the game for me.
Gameplay was oversimplified in some areas and overcomplicated in others. I hated HAVING to do finishing moves. I LOVED the ability to regen missiles and health, which I always figured she could do since Prime hinted that her suit had interdimensional storage. I hated having to stand still in first person mode. I hated not having access to missiles in 3rd person mode.
Overall, I'm glad I got this game but it's not as good as the Prime trilogy.
oh come on really? voice acting finally being used in a nintendo game and someone moans its ruined it well excuse me princess!
that aside I think its good that nintendo are finally catching up with the times, now we just need to see some other famous characters get a proper voice:
Yes I'm looking at you buddy....
that aside I think its good that nintendo are finally catching up with the times, now we just need to see some other famous characters get a proper voice:
Yes I'm looking at you buddy....
Other M was probably the most sexist mainstream game released this year, just think about it.
A female character who can only be capable when a male is controlling her in some way.
The only time where Samus acts in any way self reliant, strong or motivated is when
A. Shes under the players control, and
B. When shes being ordered around by her bossy boyfriend.
Shes a shining testament to the rampant sexism that lies under the roots of gaming.
The message Other M sends is as follows: in order for a women to be on equal footing with men in terms of capability and "baddass-ery" then they need to be either acting in order to win the approval of a man or being controlled by someone else.
This is a giant step back in terms of gaming being taken seriously in the greater culture and its a miracle that the media didn't pick up on this. This behavior is immature and offensive, stop it Team Ninja.
A female character who can only be capable when a male is controlling her in some way.
The only time where Samus acts in any way self reliant, strong or motivated is when
A. Shes under the players control, and
B. When shes being ordered around by her bossy boyfriend.
Shes a shining testament to the rampant sexism that lies under the roots of gaming.
The message Other M sends is as follows: in order for a women to be on equal footing with men in terms of capability and "baddass-ery" then they need to be either acting in order to win the approval of a man or being controlled by someone else.
This is a giant step back in terms of gaming being taken seriously in the greater culture and its a miracle that the media didn't pick up on this. This behavior is immature and offensive, stop it Team Ninja.
If it wasn't for the incredibly monotone voice I'd say no. But the voice for samus is so terrible...
See, I can't agree witht his. The problem here is that you jump right at the throat of what invalidates the argument: Adam is a guy. Aside from point A being the obvious oversight of gameplay being narrative, I'll just side step that right into point B. The one thing you need to ask yourself is "what was her motivation?" Why did Samus follow Adam's orders? Most would say it's because she had a connection with him. He was her parental figure. Others (like me) would also note that she is still bound by Galactic Law being a licensed bounty hunter and has to abide by the juristictions in place. However, the real question under all this would be if Adam was Eve, would the situation have played out any different? Considering those two motivations, no, it wouldn't have. That's what makes it not sexist.Spencer Petersen said:
Are you talking about Samus from Metroid or Anakin Skywalker in the Star Wars prequels?LeonLethality said:
Both "add character" but if that is a SHIT CHARACTER then it is not the right thing to do. "add character" is not in of itself a good thing, stories are not written by pointless box-ticking.
I can't believe people have been saying it makes a 3D character out of her.
IT DIDNT
it was UNINTERESTING, went against the reason she was silent in the first place, and worked Backwards, make her a 0D character. there isnt any real SUBTLETY to it, and god damnit, MGS,FF, and now metroid, you NEED SOME DAMN SUBTLETY OR SHIT WONT WORK.
god, Im not even a fan but this pisses me off.
IT DIDNT
it was UNINTERESTING, went against the reason she was silent in the first place, and worked Backwards, make her a 0D character. there isnt any real SUBTLETY to it, and god damnit, MGS,FF, and now metroid, you NEED SOME DAMN SUBTLETY OR SHIT WONT WORK.
god, Im not even a fan but this pisses me off.