Poll: Metroid: Other M killed Samus

[Gunner_Guardian]

Y'know, Moviebob made an interesting little video on this very subject.

In fact, here it is. [http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2010/09/episode-40-heavens-to-metroid.html]

Do I think Other M ruined Samus? No. Up to this point we've really been using Samus as sort of an expy for the main character from Aliens. Really up to this point Samus has never had a personality. You'd find more personality in Master Chief, and he's a personality-deficient brick. In Other M, her dialogue shows that she has fears, doubts, respect and other emotions that I can't recall off the top of my head. In other words, people are getting their panties in a bunch BECAUSE SHE WAS GIVEN A THREE-DIMENSIONAL PERSONALITY. Now yes, I do think they could've done things a little differently, but give the Team Ninja writing crew some credit, they at least didn't make Samus strip down to a bikini and seductively feed another woman a strawberry like they've done with other franchises.

Someone hasn't read this topic at all.

To be fair, it's close to 200 posts now, so let me provide a summary of the issue for those jumping in just now.

1) Those with misgivings about Other M's characterization of Samus are not primarily complaining about the fact that she was given a personality, but the fact that the style of portraying her personality suddenly whiplashed from her saying almost nothing to her telling us absolutely every little detail about her feelings, thus creating the impression that she is "whiny" and "overbearing". Even on a non-relative level, the exposition is amateurishly overwritten.

2) Team Ninja did not write the story, Nintendo did. Specifically, Yoshio Sakamoto, who if I recall has been the main writer of the series since Super Metroid.

3) For all the repetitive exposition we get, Samus's apparent inconsistencies of behavior with past entries are not given sufficient context, if they are justified at all. The fact that so many people are having these reactions and questions -- why is she trembling at the sight of an enemy she's beaten four times? Why is she taking orders after stating in Zero Mission how she hates taking orders? -- is sufficient to prove that that context is lacking.

^ Did I hit the major points? I tried to present it as neutrally as possible.

The Ridley one makes me think this would have made a lot more sense if this was a prequel to everything rather then a sequel. It would make sense that that would be the reaction Samus had the FIRST time she sees Ridley (he's the monster that killed her parents that would scare anyone) but after the what 5th time we're seeing him, he should be coming off as an annoyance by now.

In fact the whole game would have worked perfectly if it was a prequel.

 

[Nicarus]

I read the article, and I would say "Yes, they changed her." But let's not forget that this was a different company's take on Samus (which thank god was not as drastic as Dante) and I'm sure after people mention stuff about this, they'll bring her back to form.

Everyone's got their bad case at least once or so, I'm sure Samus is no different.

 

[Monk Ed]

Samus isn't a emotional person, SHES A GOD DAMN BOUNTY HUNTER, that alone should imply that she doesn't really care all that much to who shes hunting or killing for that matter or who is trying to tell her what to do, if that was the case this sure as hell isn't the character to choose or even try to get to "feel".

I have no idea where you got this impression other than Star Wars. Samus is not Boba Fett. And she's been characterized unambiguously as a feeling person since Metroid Fusion... 8 years ago. Even in the Prime series, she showed emotion; for example, as someone previously said, she reached out to try to save Dark Samus from falling off a cliff even though she/it was an enemy.

 

[CheckD3]

Now you have Other M, a game that take the Prime triology and the classic 2D style games and merges them, attempting to build on Prime 3's lead into voice acting the story and giving Samus a personality. It may not have been done right, but it's a step in the direction that leads to greatness.

I'd rather have them play around with Samus (or myself playing with Zero-suit, rwawr, lol) as a character while working with new gameplay mechanics then them doing what they did to Mario. Making the same kind of adventure that they've done since the begging of Mario.

THIS! Dear god, THIS! Every word!

One thing I like to remind myself of when I get down about how badly Samus's story was told in Other M is that Nintendo, after Wind Waker, gave the fans what they had been clamoring for in Twilight Princess. I hope that Nintendo will learn from the backlash to this entry and push future portrayals of Samus towards the happy middle ground between her overdone exposition in Other M and her total or near-total lack of it in most previous entries.

What I'm afraid of is the possibility that they'll overreact and go too far back in the other direction to play it safe, though. One thing I fault the Prime games for is that they were much, much too conservative with characterizing Samus. Next to the original Metroid, the Prime games are the absolutely most conservative about Samus's personality -- they are the only ones since the original in which she doesn't even speak in text!

The sweet spot, I'd wager, is somewhere between Other M and Zero Mission. Less tell, more show -- as opposed to Prime, which is just less, period.

I loved the Prime trilogy. The 1st person view gave us a new outlook at the world, worked pretty well on both Wii and GC, and as stated had good graphics. The lack of story (and backtracking to find the 8 hidden things, and backtracking in extreme they gave us ) is what made the experience lackluster. Gameplay wise was fine. One of best gaming moments came when I was facing Meta-Ridley on my chair that rolled, and I was LITERALLY sliding my chair as I dodged, even though I'd beaten the fucker time and time again.

Metroid has almost NEVER been about the story. Most we got were from Fusion and Zero Mission. ZM from the time you went Zero Suit (sorta) and Fusion was about the relationsihp between her and the Comp based on Adam. I liked Fusion a LOT and thought it balanced it kinda well, still less about the story but giving us something. Primes were no story except to set up fights and tell us where to go next.

I really need to play Other M now, even if it's total crap, because it's fucking Metroid.

 

[Servantes]

Samus isn't a emotional person, SHES A GOD DAMN BOUNTY HUNTER, that alone should imply that she doesn't really care all that much to who shes hunting or killing for that matter or who is trying to tell her what to do, if that was the case this sure as hell isn't the character to choose or even try to get to "feel".

I have no idea where you got this impression other than Star Wars. Samus is not Boba Fett. And she's been characterized unambiguously as a feeling person since Metroid Fusion... 8 years ago. Even in the Prime series, she showed emotion; for example, as someone previously said, she reached out to try to save Dark Samus from falling off a cliff even though she/it was an enemy.

Indeed I retract that last statement a valid reply about corruption, Must be the nerd rage, tis blinding.

 

[Vhite]

Im not against expanding the character but when you turn her into whiny little ***** then it pretty much ruined for me, Spoonys word on this matter sealed it form me.

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

Ruined? No, it added character to an otherwise uninteresting character.

Other M made the series much more interesting and I hope to see more Metroid titles like it.

It added shitty, overly wordy, sexist character to a stoic, proud, wise, clever character who has been a staple of characterization through visual methods rather than words.

 

[Wintermoot]

no coincedntly I just saw a game overthinker for it here is the link
: http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2010/09/episode-40-heavens-to-metroid.html

 

[Monk Ed]

There wasn't a lack of story. You could easily find it in the scans throughout all 3 games, that told you what happened on the planets, not to mention the overarching story of Phazon and DarkSamus through the trilogy and a fair bit of the backtracking can be cut out in Prime and Corruption. Sure a few of the things might require some later upgrades to get, but you can still pick up a lot of artifacts/cells before you reach the end of the game if you explored well enough. Echoes was the only one that was outright terrible with the final key hunt. But the story, which was entirely optional for the most part, was part of what made it so great. It added to the atmosphere. You were on a dead or dying planet where the civilization was mostly gone, of course there wouldn't be anyone to tell you what was happening and your only real clues besides "pirates be here" to what was going on was through the remains they left behind, and reading through them sets up the entire world for you, and to find everything you need to explore which is what the series should be focusing on. What it's known for, something that was apparently so good and fresh that even Castlevania and Kirby started to copy it for a bit.

In MPT there was certainly a lack of story regarding Samus. Prime's stories really had nothing to do with Samus; they were basically filler. (Echoes in particular is the biggest case of "Hey guys what's going on" ever for her.) Good filler, but still ultimately The Miscellaneous Inconsequential Side-Missions of Samus. That's just not a sustainable or progressive model for the series. ...If you already understand this and were making some other point, I apologize.

Addendum upon seeing the post right before this one: Jesus this topic keeps going around and around.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

@Monk Ed:

Yes, I agree that the actual PLOT had its flaws (a basic narrative, side characters except for Adam and Anthony were personality-deficient and there were some major holes) and the monologues were overdone at times (just like in the original release of Blade Runner actually). But if there is ONE thing I will defend to the death it's Samus. As for my comments, well, there is ONLY so much bile I can take before my patience snaps

@HellsingerAngel:

That's a lot better explanation than I could have done (though you'll be getting some people saying "tl;dr"), kudos

 

[AgDr_ODST]

This argument is idiotic. Where does it state that Samus is a cold blooded ***** that eats testicles for lunch? Actually, moviebob said it better than me: http://screwattack.com/videos/TGO-Episode-40-Heavens-to-Metroid

It made a one dimensional character third dimensional and suddenly that is a bad thing? Are we really that accustomed to the emotionless angry fuckheads that wouldn't smile even if they won a billion dollars while getting sucked off by Angelina Jolie and watching "insert hilarious movie title here" that we can't accept any other character archetype?

I admit I at first agreed with the IGN article, Morgans G4 review, and the howling whiners who were pissed off by This 'weakening of Samus' by doing what they did to give character. But after Watching Moviebobs break down of it all I agree with him(some what atleast). I do think that waiting to be told by Malkovich to save her own ass with her heat suit is stupid though

 

[Sven und EIN HUND]

Moviebob saves all


http://screwattack.com/videos/TGO-Episode-40-Heavens-to-Metroid

Note: This may or may not have been posted in this thread yet, admittedly I didn't take the time to read through the entiiiiiiiiiiiire comments section

 

[Monk Ed]

Oh, you meant in regards to Samus herself. I thought you meant story period. My mistake, it was nice talking about a far better game though. But I dunno, none of the other games barring perhaps fusion really were about Samus either. Metroid was just "Go stop pirates" Metroid 2 was just "Go kill metroids" Super Metroid was "Go do this thing you already did and don't cock it up this time, also they took that metroid you found". The prime series just followed suit. And honestly is it that bad to not revolve the entire world around her? Having just brief, subtle glimpses into her mind and personality through her actions and whatnot rather then just spurts of exposition they vomit at us?

To be clear, I'm not the guy you were responding to in the response I quoted. I just kind of jumped in.

The thing is, people were already aching for a change from the formula you describe. As I said somewhere before, after playing alongside Samus for so long, I wanted to finally learn about her -- and the little glimpses we see in Prime, etc only make that yearning stronger rather than satisfying it. It's not that the game series has to revolve around her; it's that it has not for so long that she deserves to get a little more orbital revolution, know what I mean? Maybe not through "vomited exposition" but through something more than four or five brief shots of her face throughout a game.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

@HellsingerAngel:

That's a lot better explanation than I could have done (though you'll be getting some people saying "tl;dr"), kudos

Considering this is the first responce to my second post in this thread, I doubt anyone will even notice. However, thanks for the nod. I just hope people read it and actually have a good think about what I've said before posting, if they're going to post.

Also, TL;DR misses the point of an argument. There are nuances I can't explain in TL;DR for a discussion to occur.

 

[Sven und EIN HUND]

I actually posted the Moviebob video link, then realised it had been posted several several several times in this thread already, so I'll just ago ahead and state that I agree with Moviebob.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

@HellsingerAngel:

That's a lot better explanation than I could have done (though you'll be getting some people saying "tl;dr"), kudos

Considering this is the first responce to my second post in this thread, I doubt anyone will even notice. However, thanks for the nod. I just hope people read it and actually have a good think about what I've said before posting, if they're going to post.

Also, TL;DR misses the point of an argument. There are nuances I can't explain in TL;DR for a discussion to occur.

This is what I think about every time I hear a criticism of Samus that says "whiny *****" or "cowardly, meek little girl": do we DESERVE to have to Supreme Court rule in our favor come that case that Extra Credits talked about? If THIS is how we're going to act when someone tries to make a narrative that tries to show a character in a three-dimensional, non-macho manner while making her strong, flawed, and emotive, then are WE just getting our just desserts when gaming is looked down upon? To me this just feels like the medium is going through its angry 90s comic book phase.

 

[Monk Ed]

Oh, you meant in regards to Samus herself. I thought you meant story period. My mistake, it was nice talking about a far better game though. But I dunno, none of the other games barring perhaps fusion really were about Samus either. Metroid was just "Go stop pirates" Metroid 2 was just "Go kill metroids" Super Metroid was "Go do this thing you already did and don't cock it up this time, also they took that metroid you found". The prime series just followed suit. And honestly is it that bad to not revolve the entire world around her? Having just brief, subtle glimpses into her mind and personality through her actions and whatnot rather then just spurts of exposition they vomit at us?

To be clear, I'm not the guy you were responding to in the response I quoted. I just kind of jumped in.

The thing is, people were already aching for a change from the formula you describe. As I said somewhere before, after playing alongside Samus for so long, I wanted to finally learn about her -- and the little glimpses we see in Prime, etc only make that yearning stronger rather than satisfying it. It's not that the game series has to revolve around her; it's that it has not for so long that she deserves to get a little more orbital revolution, know what I mean? Maybe not through "vomited exposition" but through something more than four or five brief shots of her face throughout a game.

Oh, eh after a while people on forums start to blend together unless they're really interesting. However that's exactly what Other M did, it made the entire game about her and her incessant whining about how terrible she was and how adam was always right and blah blah blah. She was suddenly no longer the character that character that fans had been familiar with for years because the games had pretty much been "you are samus" up until now, letting them fill all the blanks, it was basically the CDi link to every other zelda game. Just a big old "WHAT?!" If they want to give her a real character they'd have to do it gradually. Bring more to her without just suddenly going "This is how she is now. She's always been like this, yes always. ALWAYS" regardless of how unbelievable it is.

It appears that we agree: Mood Whiplash (or, storytelling style whiplash?) is at fault here. In an effort to keep this from going overly long, I'll just say that I've already elaborated as much as I can in my many previous posts.

 

[Warachia]

Moviebob saves all


http://screwattack.com/videos/TGO-Episode-40-Heavens-to-Metroid

Note: This may or may not have been posted in this thread yet, admittedly I didn't take the time to read through the entiiiiiiiiiiiire comments section

you are the 8th or so poster who didn't read replies left to the previous 7. Congratulations.

 

[hobo_welf]

HAHA. No. No it didn't.
It's just that Nintendo can't win when you think about it. People wanted Nintendo to add voice acting and emotion to their franchises. They listen and the fans hate it.

Ruined? No, it added character to an otherwise uninteresting character.

Other M made the series much more interesting and I hope to see more Metroid titles like it.

Thank you.

Glad I saved you a bit of opinion typing. It's sad how fickle many fans can be, the same fans who praised OoT as the best game ever and comparing every following Zelda game to it saying they were not as good criticized Twilight Princess for trying to be like OoT. I kinda feel bad for Nintendo, no matter how much they listen to their fans they just can't seem to please them.

Let's not be so specific. Fans can never be pleased in general. When you like something, it's generally because you can or want to identify with it, and once you do that, you create something of your own version of it. Not necessarily what the game creators intended, but what you wanted them to portray. After that, it's all gonna be screwy. There will be a million threads like this when Duke Nukem Forever comes out(Even though we know it won't).

OP: No Samus was not ruined by Team Ninja. It's not unusual for Nintendo to completely break continuity in their games. Zelda hardly makes sense any more, as far as a concise timeline from game to game goes. The next Metroid game can be completely bad ass and everyone will forget about this game. Or at least they'll all stop bitching about it ruining the series.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

-snip for space-

Honestly, it's a topic I'm not sure I want to touch on that much in a thread about Metroid, but I'll give a summary, which will touch on the "Games are Art" theory. The problem with games are that people don't treat them like other media out there. They aren't like TV shows because you can play them at any time, which avoids the convenience of slotting them at a later time slot. They aren't as cencored as movies, because really, ESRB isn't law, it's a guideline, unlike movie ratings which are law. You can't sell something rated XXX to minors or you'll be shut down. Sell a M-rated or PEGI 18 game to a minor and you get a slap on the wrist and a small fine. Unlike books, the content is also visual, so imagination has no part in what is protrayed, thus needs to be cencored, unlike books which require previous experiences of vast details which can be tedious to go through if the subject matter is dry. Music falls under movies, porno magasines as well, etc etc.

The fact is, when it comes to video games, we're very childish. We want our cake and to eat it too. This is by no means not the fault of large companies as well. With the amount of information we can glean from technology and registration, Xbox Live shouldn't be seeing anything under the age of 17 on something Like Halo or Modern Warfare 2, simply because they should be banned for breaking the ESRB or PEGI ratings. But because these aren't solid law, there's not much reason to enforce them if you're still getting your extra $60 from another sale. The fact is, if we keep treating video games like we are, we don't deserve to have them.

However, that's neither here nor there. The point is that in all medias, people will always complain about characterizations not going the way they wished. People needs to grow up and get over themselves instead of going "ZOMG SAMUS SUX NIAO WISH NINTENDO DIES SKAAMOTO IS STOOPID!" (please, hyperbole, no flames) and actually think about how the entire game is presented. So what if they didn't use subtle analogy for some things? That's their choice. The personality still got through. Ignore it and move on because, really, it's not that big a deal. Most of her stuff was introspective so she's still the silent badass for the most part, and eys she does break down but my reason has already been stated twice. Go check my other posts if you want my opinion on that bear trap.