Poll: Would you go for a Warhammer 40K(dawn of war) movie?
- Thread starter Dagodweezl
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Take DoW (1 over 2...) cut scene, extend it to 1 hour 30 minutes.
You now have a movie that will please fans, and most male audiences too. Hell the original DoW intro movie always makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.
Also, have a look at the Warhammer online intro. Its very pretty CG action.
On the otherhand, anyoen that has played teh old 40k games or been to the GW museum in Nottingham (England) will know they did live action cutscenes, and they have about 5 suits of Blood Angles armour, a Space Wolf terminator, a few genestealer costumes and loads of guards with a comissar. Very cheesey and B-movie stuff, but awesome none-the-less
You now have a movie that will please fans, and most male audiences too. Hell the original DoW intro movie always makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.
Also, have a look at the Warhammer online intro. Its very pretty CG action.
On the otherhand, anyoen that has played teh old 40k games or been to the GW museum in Nottingham (England) will know they did live action cutscenes, and they have about 5 suits of Blood Angles armour, a Space Wolf terminator, a few genestealer costumes and loads of guards with a comissar. Very cheesey and B-movie stuff, but awesome none-the-less
My attention span. That said, I have written an extensive story synopsis for a Space Marine game done right. The appeal of that universe was never in the exploits of a single man, like the new game will focus on, but instead of the sense of scale. I think this can be done in an FPS form.mshcherbatskaya said:
The trick is giving the illusion of impact. Take a trench warfare scene, in CoD these take the form of 20 men killing about 200 poor japanese bastards. In 40K, I want to gun down 10,000,000 tyranids.
So we give the player a very narrow alley of actual enemies, about 20 meters wide, and about 10 squadmnates who all fire madly at the oncoming horde of nids. Outside this, a scripted scene of a billion nids rushes towards the line, pre-made graphics of other space marines holding the line plays out all around you, as you are given the slightly challenging task of fighting off the gaunts.
Then, carnifex. To the right, you see it approaching the non-real lines, taking fire and roaring like mad, You can't miss it. You can't stop firing at your targets, so you watch in horror as it reaches the lines and gets inside the trench. You spin and fire at the godawful creature as it runs down the trench, crushing men left and right. It's scripted to die a foot in front of you, clogging the trench, then you turn back to your post to see...
On the horizon. Tyranid Bio-Titans. City-sized machines of living death. Cue theme music, cue increased enemy spawn rate. Around you, the trenches are going to hell. The nid titans are close, filling the sky. You're overwhelmed, undone, the retreat is sounded.
You turn to run, but you get caught. The Carnifex from before has your leg. You are on the ground, the beasts slavering head above you, you roll to the side, avoiding it's attack, and eventually break it's neck in a display of utter fucking ballsy awesome.
It falls to the side... and the titan is above you.
It's jaw is the size of a dropship. It's guns can level tank companies, and you are about to..
DUN DUUUN DUUUUUUUUN CUE THE BRASS TRIUMPHANT MUSIC, SUCKA, THE BOYS FROM MARS ARE HERE
A titan, a god-mahine. A walking engine of wrath steps into view, guns like a bus depot unleashing hell. A Titan legio. You get up, up and down the line the god-machinesa re gutting enemy titans and unleashing hell in the horde. You charge with the squad, underneath the mechanicum might, into the oncoming enemy.
Now tell me. Is that or is that not possibly the greatest set-piece you will ever see in a game? Constant threats, constant pressure, the illusion that you are barely holding on in the face of the foe, constant application of stimuli. And then you are rewarded by the chance to counter-charge the foe, chainsword roaring victory.
Illusion, emotion, reward. Like a story, if you make the player invest in the game he will be ever more impressed when you go to cash in on the emotion he's saved up. A 40K game should not be about the strengths of the character, like Halo or GeoW, it should be about his fragility, a man among countless trillions.
If you build it, they will come. In every sense of the word.
EDIT: In my fervor I have made a few spelling mistakes. Often, I go back and correct these. Today, not so much. Think of them as proof of my passion towards the cause.
The problem is that the developers of the game are trying to sell the gameplay as the games awesomesauce. Which is fucking stupid, because the entire appeal of 40K has never been it's horrible game(s), but the setting. The setting is so rich it can make you stand for hours rolling dice to see which little dudes fall over, I know because I did it. It has the depth to let you see a battle where a passer by sees hurridly shifted plastic men. That's why scenes like mine will never work in a game like theirs.LewsTherin said:
Trying to sell gameplay when you're money shot is the universe and setting like trying to sell setting in a movie when your money juice is character. 40K has a switch built in that makes people hired to do it suck gigantic levels of stupid into a syringe and freebase it. Dawn of War is a rare exception, as it captured scale by default, and added intimacy to brutality in a genuinely entertaining fashion. Kudos to Relic on that, really.
But now we have 'Space Marine'.
Notice how that's a god damned singular. Singular. It's like buying the transformers franchise to do a chessy story about some kid and his love interest, when the entire appeal of that universe was robots beating the shit out of one another and shooting lasers. Now that would be stupid.
I would go for such a movie unless Uwe Boll was making it, because I seriously doubt that anyone can name one film that he as done that wasn't complete shit.
Only if there was a wise cracking Kroot as one of the main characters and if all the alien races team up on the Space Marines kill them all and use their helmets as makeshift toilets. Also the Imperial guard, Tau, Kroot, Vespid, a few Orks band together afterwards into a resistance to fight off the Tyrannids, the Necrons and the Chaos.
Well then how about a Movie based on the Ravenor books? I personally don't think a movie could be based on the game DoW as it is a video game plot, the better decision would be to choose from all the literature based on the 40K universe, or 30K.
EDIT: I agree with the idea of not having an army like 'nids, 'crons or orks as the main enemy because they have no real intelegence when it comes to fighting though I disagree with the Idea that the movie should only follow one guy, unless it is an inquisitor. Yet even then you would still follow their team. Follow the entire army switch perspectives to watch gaurdsmen be ambushed and killed and other things like that.
EDIT: I agree with the idea of not having an army like 'nids, 'crons or orks as the main enemy because they have no real intelegence when it comes to fighting though I disagree with the Idea that the movie should only follow one guy, unless it is an inquisitor. Yet even then you would still follow their team. Follow the entire army switch perspectives to watch gaurdsmen be ambushed and killed and other things like that.
I would like to see either a cgi or live action. Preferably off of things that have actually happened in the fluff. Like the Horus Heresy or the battle for Ichar IV. But one off the books would seem pretty good, but the only book I would want to see turned into a movie is THe Last Chancers. Nothin better then seeing complete lunatics like Kage wanting to slit the throats of almost everyone he meets.
I tried to write a movie synopsis, but the best plot of all time for this setting is taken by Starship Troopers, 'boy-joins-military-goes-to-camp-finds-out-he's-fucked'. It's been in a few WH40K books, because it's one of the best ways to tell the story of that universe, of individuals crushed in the callous grip of the 41st millenium.
The alternative, if you were shooting for scale (and as stated, not my first choice), is a WW2 movie. Set in 40K. I am not kidding. If you can stand to make a satire out of 40k you could seriously subvert every tradition in the book and make a sci-fi war be just like the Wars we had yesterday. 40K is already based on those themes and mentalities, let it play to it's strengths and slylistically bend it towards being the best damn war movie it can be. Not the best option, but you only not-dead-horse option for a war film.
The option I really like is one explored in the horus heresy books, a trilogy-opportunity If i ever saw one. It basically is the story of 40K. The theme is the Space Marines defending the humanity they are no longer a part of, delving into a level of brutality unlike anything ever seen in the name of the Emperor. We see the film through the eyes of the Humans on the fleet, and Garviel Loken, the space marine we often follow in the course of the novels. The film will need to be huge as it is to encompass Horus, Loken, the rebellion and the humans so we cut out the filler books and mechanicum subplot. We streamline the story to be one of only two conquests and one legion, meeting briefly with perhaps the Crimson Fists (critical later in the story).
You'd need to basically butcher the book, but I am of the opinion that we don't need to aim for everything the books do. We don't need to tell all the stories, all the wending plots of prophecy. We make Chaos a scary as fuck sauron-like enemy (Never seen, only alluded to in the first film) who infiltrates the Lunar Wolves and is observed by the humans (who discover how brutal the marines are when viewing the aftermath). The first film is all about the fall to chaos, told by marine and man, with all of the inhuman parralels this generates (more bang for your buck, grind themes from the style). Ending in the betrayal on Istvaan, as the audience watches in horror as Horus condemns his brothers to die. 3 hours.
Second film. Flight of the Eisenstien. Here is where we do faith, with all of the gorgeous messages that I could do well but any other director will fuck up horribly. We see chaos come to life as it hunts the men of the fleeing lunar wolves (yeah, the book had death guard, but this isn't the book) including Loken, who is becoming our first proto-40K-marine, full of faith and hate. We follow the subplot in the down-time of Horus gathering his brother traitor primarchs, passing over their private falls in favor of setting up Horus as one badass mother. This takes the first half of the film. After this we see the crimson fists and the rest of the loyal legions counter-attack, leading to Horus' masterstroke and the second betrayal. Audience is once again going 'WTF', but some hope exists as our budding saint (the prior main character human) reaches the moon (our moon, earth is off-limits at the second). 3 hours. Once again, all told from both human and marine viewpoints.
Third film. The attack on the imperium. You know the story. I don't know what the books official version is, but i'm guessing it will run as fairly standard canon.
The trick is to cut out the pandering to fans. Focus on two legions, and humans. Keep the plot simple, a fall from grace story (anyone who has read 'Fulgrim' will tell you this is the best part of the series) using Horus instead of Fulgrim and use the humans to drive the storytelling. Use the elements of this story, which is loveable characters fighting for what they love, to drive the setting, not the other way around.
I guarantee you, if you can carry a good plot the length of this film, the special effects and fight scenes will in no doubt carry the setting. The story itself is a bit long for a trilogy, at least as it was intended. Upon re-reading I don't think this is perfect either, as it forgets the roots of the story. Perhaps if it was set entirely from the view of Garviel Loken, forgetting the humans? But then you lose the themes...
I think this is in the right direction though. Human v Human is the only way to write the movie without trivialsing war (the point of the setting) as 'shoot the bugs'. The problem is that it is precisely the cut sub-plots that make the books so incredible. I think this is the story to tell, and I think that's the way to tell it. As for the meat and bones of the story, that is not something I can churn out in one sitting. Suggestions are welcome.
Once Again: Spelling errors are deliberate and complimentary.
The alternative, if you were shooting for scale (and as stated, not my first choice), is a WW2 movie. Set in 40K. I am not kidding. If you can stand to make a satire out of 40k you could seriously subvert every tradition in the book and make a sci-fi war be just like the Wars we had yesterday. 40K is already based on those themes and mentalities, let it play to it's strengths and slylistically bend it towards being the best damn war movie it can be. Not the best option, but you only not-dead-horse option for a war film.
The option I really like is one explored in the horus heresy books, a trilogy-opportunity If i ever saw one. It basically is the story of 40K. The theme is the Space Marines defending the humanity they are no longer a part of, delving into a level of brutality unlike anything ever seen in the name of the Emperor. We see the film through the eyes of the Humans on the fleet, and Garviel Loken, the space marine we often follow in the course of the novels. The film will need to be huge as it is to encompass Horus, Loken, the rebellion and the humans so we cut out the filler books and mechanicum subplot. We streamline the story to be one of only two conquests and one legion, meeting briefly with perhaps the Crimson Fists (critical later in the story).
You'd need to basically butcher the book, but I am of the opinion that we don't need to aim for everything the books do. We don't need to tell all the stories, all the wending plots of prophecy. We make Chaos a scary as fuck sauron-like enemy (Never seen, only alluded to in the first film) who infiltrates the Lunar Wolves and is observed by the humans (who discover how brutal the marines are when viewing the aftermath). The first film is all about the fall to chaos, told by marine and man, with all of the inhuman parralels this generates (more bang for your buck, grind themes from the style). Ending in the betrayal on Istvaan, as the audience watches in horror as Horus condemns his brothers to die. 3 hours.
Second film. Flight of the Eisenstien. Here is where we do faith, with all of the gorgeous messages that I could do well but any other director will fuck up horribly. We see chaos come to life as it hunts the men of the fleeing lunar wolves (yeah, the book had death guard, but this isn't the book) including Loken, who is becoming our first proto-40K-marine, full of faith and hate. We follow the subplot in the down-time of Horus gathering his brother traitor primarchs, passing over their private falls in favor of setting up Horus as one badass mother. This takes the first half of the film. After this we see the crimson fists and the rest of the loyal legions counter-attack, leading to Horus' masterstroke and the second betrayal. Audience is once again going 'WTF', but some hope exists as our budding saint (the prior main character human) reaches the moon (our moon, earth is off-limits at the second). 3 hours. Once again, all told from both human and marine viewpoints.
Third film. The attack on the imperium. You know the story. I don't know what the books official version is, but i'm guessing it will run as fairly standard canon.
The trick is to cut out the pandering to fans. Focus on two legions, and humans. Keep the plot simple, a fall from grace story (anyone who has read 'Fulgrim' will tell you this is the best part of the series) using Horus instead of Fulgrim and use the humans to drive the storytelling. Use the elements of this story, which is loveable characters fighting for what they love, to drive the setting, not the other way around.
I guarantee you, if you can carry a good plot the length of this film, the special effects and fight scenes will in no doubt carry the setting. The story itself is a bit long for a trilogy, at least as it was intended. Upon re-reading I don't think this is perfect either, as it forgets the roots of the story. Perhaps if it was set entirely from the view of Garviel Loken, forgetting the humans? But then you lose the themes...
I think this is in the right direction though. Human v Human is the only way to write the movie without trivialsing war (the point of the setting) as 'shoot the bugs'. The problem is that it is precisely the cut sub-plots that make the books so incredible. I think this is the story to tell, and I think that's the way to tell it. As for the meat and bones of the story, that is not something I can churn out in one sitting. Suggestions are welcome.
Once Again: Spelling errors are deliberate and complimentary.
Dawn of War is a very small pebble in a really big universe. There's a lot of better written 40K stories out there. I think the best subject for it all would be the Horus Heresy, its one of the main focuses of the writers of games workshop now, and I think those are some of the best books from Warhammer 40k. anything else might come across as a bit confusing at least, but horus heresy is meant to be the absolute beginning to the story. only problem would be the fact that it might be tricky to get a book into a movie, and then you would have to make at least 3. a pretty big commitment, especially if you want to do the 40K universe justice. Chances are it would be in all CG, otherwise it would be difficult to get space marines and aliens right.
as much as I would love a Warhammer 40k movie, I doubt its going to happen any time soon. Games Workshop is doing a great job expanding their audience, though people might not get that deep into it, but a movie is a really huge undertaking.
then again, hollywood, being the shameless capitalist industry that it is, is trying to make movies out of halo and gears of war. If you ask me, WH40K is far more suited than either of those, but then fanboys will be fanboys.
as much as I would love a Warhammer 40k movie, I doubt its going to happen any time soon. Games Workshop is doing a great job expanding their audience, though people might not get that deep into it, but a movie is a really huge undertaking.
then again, hollywood, being the shameless capitalist industry that it is, is trying to make movies out of halo and gears of war. If you ask me, WH40K is far more suited than either of those, but then fanboys will be fanboys.
Ultrajoe that was masterful.
perhaps a four part?
I was thinking about a series that would run through the great crusade but this is much better.
and we might not have to cut out all the subplot, do I hear Special features? think the pirate story from watchmen but over several episodes.
I think I defiantly need to go back through Horus.
perhaps a four part?
I was thinking about a series that would run through the great crusade but this is much better.
and we might not have to cut out all the subplot, do I hear Special features? think the pirate story from watchmen but over several episodes.
I think I defiantly need to go back through Horus.
@Ultrajoe, re: game design--
Wouldn't the player get irretrievably pissed that you kept throwing bosses at them that they couldn't kill, no matter what they did? You didn't write a game set-piece there, dude, you wrote the WH40K equivalent of the Battle of Helm's Deep. And I mean that as a complement. You should fly to New Zealand, kidnap Peter Jackson, and hold him hostage until a studio greelights the project. But first you would have to write the screenplay.
Wouldn't the player get irretrievably pissed that you kept throwing bosses at them that they couldn't kill, no matter what they did? You didn't write a game set-piece there, dude, you wrote the WH40K equivalent of the Battle of Helm's Deep. And I mean that as a complement. You should fly to New Zealand, kidnap Peter Jackson, and hold him hostage until a studio greelights the project. But first you would have to write the screenplay.