Skyward Sword

[Dunkerloop]

Personally, I really did like the game, but in the end, Fi would probably, no, has a GUARANTEED spot as my pick for the worst sidekick ever. I plugged my ears whenever I heard her voice, which was rather often, and got annoyed at how often she repeated stuff we already learned literally 10 seconds before.

 

[Bluecho]

I think what turned me off about Fi more than anything, more than her dispassion or her stating of the obvious all the time, is the fact that she has no eyes. And it makes sense, being essentially a robot. But it's kind of hard to latch onto a character with no real eyes, just a space on her face where eyes would be. If they'd given her a visor or goggles, I probably wouldn't have minded all that much.

One of the Let's Players I follow did an LP for SS, and mostly for time reasons I stopped watching it. And yet when I thought of catching up, I found I really don't want to all that much. The game looks beautiful, and has an interesting impressionistic art style. But despite how much that LPer loved the game while playing, I just couldn't get on board.

Another thing, Zelda creeps me out. It's her nose, it's freaky looking. And it's offputting, because most of the beginning of the game is spent hanging out with her. Not that spending time with the fair maiden is bad, because then at least the player can care about who they're risking their lives to save. But Wind Waker did it so much better.

I really need to buy WW, though it may be diffucult given how expensive it probably is at this point.

 

[Sovvolf]

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Very good point. You know, I've never been for or against Zelda games. Kind of always had an outside look at things. I played a few but never really got hooked so they've always been a me'h product to me. The one I got the furthest through was Windwaker though didn't complete it due to the Gamecube breaking down and not having the money to replace it.

However, as a fellow who frequents the web, I'm certainly familiar with the Legend of Zelda series and the fandom. Overtime you tend to pick things up through reading comments on reviews (such as this) and reading forums and such. The idea the fans tend to give me from and outside perspective is that they're bloody looney*. Its near impossible to criticize a Zelda game, even if the criticism is entirely justified, without having them swarm upon you like rabid dogs. Must make it incredibly hard for a critic to review such a series.

I was once watching a review for the Wii port of Ocarina (I think that was it) on Gamespot and I read the comments and they were going savage, death threats, threats of violence, blaming of other franchises, the industry and so on... For what you may ask? They scored the game 9.5 instead of 10, that 0.5 of a score caused pretty much chaos in that comment section. That always perplexed me. Even now, reading a few reactions here you get the feeling that people are really saying "You can review and be mean to any other game, however if you touch TLOZ, your a bias arsehole and not actually a critic"... The fanbase actually put me off getting into the series, which is a shame as I really do want to get it another try.

You know, I'm a big fan of the Final Fantasy series, even the more poor games, so the series I'm a fan of tends to get quite a lot of flack, specially the recent ones. However I don't go rampantly insane with death threats about it, I don't vigorously deny all the flaws pointed out, I mostly just accept that its their opinion and I can look past that. Plenty of the games I like get equal amount of flack... Doesn't mean I'm going to throw a jiddy fit about it. I think anyone who does needs to seriously reevaluate their lives. You peeps do understand that you don't need Yahtzee's or any other critics approval to play your game don't you?.

*I will note that not all the fans are like this, indeed they're fans out there, in this very thread that seem to be down to earth.

Also, I haven't been visited this place in a while other than to watch vids... Just wondering, with it being Wednesday and all... Where Yahtzee's weekly review is.

 

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Yahtzee himself mentioned in the article that he is bias against motion controls...but then he covered that up by saying it's just because he was bias against things that weren't fun.

See, he defeated the purpose of admitting bias by then trying to present his personal feelings as absolute facts. After that statement, if you don't think that he in particular is irrationally bias and prone to ignore objectivity, then I don't know what to say. The article also herds together anyone who thinks positively of the game into a big group of fanboys who ignore objective flaws, even though that's logically untrue.

Look, of course he's biased. I'm just going to repost what I wrote on the video thread instead of rewriting my opinion on this:

Whether or not you agree with his criticisms is subjective, of course. But don't disregard him just because he's biased. We're all biased in one way or another; that's one of the downsides of actually possessing a long-term memory in conjunction with the capacity for logical reasoning. Yahtzee's opinion is biased because he dislikes the Wii. The argument you made is biased because you disliked Yahtzee's review. The argument I'm making right now is biased because I'm really uptight about semantics for some reason. If you want a genuinely unbiased review of a game, I'd suggest rolling a ten-sided die.

There's no such thing as being "unfairly biased". And as for "ignoring objectivity"- you do realize that whether or not you enjoy a game is the polar opposite of objectivity, right?

It isn't that Yahtzee is bias...it's the fact that he admits his own bias while still insisting that his opinions are objective facts. His entire review came off to me as nothing but a ranting hated for motion controls in general.

The fact that Yahtzee leaves absolutely no room for error and reduces anyone who strongly disagrees with him to gibbering strawmen is what makes him unfairly bias.

I like Yahtzee...I think his entertaining...but that's it. He's an entertainer. As someone who objectively judges the quality of media, I don't think he's good at what he does. And yes, there are ways to objectively judge a videogame.

 

[SickBritKid]

You wouldn't tell those Occupy Wall Street to sod off because their complaints are getting repetitive.

No. I tell OWS to fuck off because they're gorram hypocrites who refuse to acknowledge that they've allowed their movement to be hijacked by extremist elements who have no interest in the message, only in stirring up chaos and strife in our country.

How are OWS hypocrites? They're sponsored by Unions, who contribute a good three times as much to politics as big business and Wall Street.

And it's hilarious that they're supporting/being endorsed by the Democratic Party, who receive the Lion's Share of money from both Wall Street AND unions.

 

[Mahoshonen]

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Yahtzee himself mentioned in the article that he is bias against motion controls...but then he covered that up by saying it's just because he was bias against things that weren't fun.

But here's the thing: what one person considers 'fun' differs from others.

I find it baffling that people can derive enjoyment from Dwarf Fortress. I like the stories that come out of it, but I can't fathom who could put up with it. If I was offered a living salary to explain in detail why I don't like Dwarf Fortress, I would probably due so. And if my appeal was based on humor, I couldn't honestly write the article while trying not to hurt anyone's feelings.

But at the end of the day, my opinion that Dwarf Fortress isn't fun is subjective. So when I say "I don't like it because it's not fun," I mean that I did not find it fun. Same here for Yahtzee

 

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

Personally, I really did like the game, but in the end, Fi would probably, no, has a GUARANTEED spot as my pick for the worst sidekick ever. I plugged my ears whenever I heard her voice, which was rather often, and got annoyed at how often she repeated stuff we already learned literally 10 seconds before.

Eh, I liked her. The fact that she made her statements with such absolute certainty made her seem so cynical...like she was treating Link as an idiot. I didn't find her to be as intrusive as so many made her out to be.

Before playing the game, I was under the impression that she interrupted you whenever you were low on health. Instead, when you get down to three hearts, a soft chime sounds three times and then doesn't repeat...and you don't even have to talk to her. Probably the least annoying way of making it absolutely clear that you're low on health in any Zelda game. Her Rumors and Monster Analysis also were very helpful.

I thought she served more of a purpose than Midna...who didn't really know much about anything.

She's no Ezlo though.

 

[kwuz]

This was a very interesting zelda game. I can't say I completely loved it, but I also can't say I completely hated it too. I overall have a positive view of the game, but there are quite a few things that really didn't work.
First big thing: The motion controls. I actually found the motion controls to be on time and quite intuitive-- Yahtzee, were you using a good set up for your wii? because I never had problems with the timing. Sure, the new directional and critical timing controls took a bit of getting used to over Twilight Princess' random equivalent of hyperactive button mashing, but once I got it down it worked flawlessly.
Another big thing is the lack of a free world. This, in my mind, is the major flaw of this game. Sure, the sky is cool at first glimpse, but I kept wanting to look for new towns, new cities, new outposts. Other people, or at least gorons or zoras or SOMETHING. Even on the surface, while there are other races, there's nothing I would really call a town. You never got a sense for how these other races actually lived. This is something I've really liked about other zelda games (OOT, TP, etc) There are mulitple towns and cities with unique features to visit, unique people to find there, and fun things to do. Thats what Skyward sword was missing.

On to the good side of skyward sword though, I found the story and character development to be far superior to any zelda game I have ever played. For the first time in a major zelda title, I felt emotion from the characters of link and zelda. The whole childhoodfriend thing, while kind of cliche really worked well for this game (in my opinion anyways) Also the villian character Ghirahim was incredibly... colorful. I love the way his character was developed as well. That's a big problem that I've seen with previous zelda games that now isn't present in Skyward sword. Before this game you'd only usually see the main villian about three times. First at the beginning when the shit starts to happen, then again at the "plot twist" after the first three dungeons, and then again in the final battle. This often times lent itself to poorly understood and badly deveoped villians that really held no emotional weight in the game. The way Ghirahim keeps popping up in skyward really makes for a nice impression, especially when you take a look at the less obvious ways his character develops. When you first meet him in the first temple he's rather gentlemanly, not killing link as it would not be fair, speaking eloquently like a true sir. However, as you beat him time and time again and defeat his traps and monsters, you see him gradually become more sadistic and bloodthirsty (and creepy) He stops speaking eloquently and gets more violent and moody. That is something that I really liked in skyward sword. Also, the little nods to previous games added a nice touch.

What I hope to see next from nintendo is a game with the character development and story on par with skyward sword, but a nice freeroaming world more akin to twilight princess/windwaker/etc. That, in my mind would be a perfect zelda game. Oh yeah and better graphics too. I think Skyward sword has the right idea with the impressionistic graphics (It adds a nice adventurey touch and works well with nintendo's limited systems) but needs a bit more refinement and link really needs to lose those girly lips.

 

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Yahtzee himself mentioned in the article that he is bias against motion controls...but then he covered that up by saying it's just because he was bias against things that weren't fun.

But here's the thing: what one person considers 'fun' differs from others.

I find it baffling that people can derive enjoyment from Dwarf Fortress. I like the stories that come out of it, but I can't fathom who could put up with it. If I was offered a living salary to explain in detail why I don't like Dwarf Fortress, I would probably due so. And if my appeal was based on humor, I couldn't honestly write the article while trying not to hurt anyone's feelings.

But at the end of the day, my opinion that Dwarf Fortress isn't fun is subjective. So when I say "I don't like it because it's not fun," I mean that I did not find it fun. Same here for Yahtzee

The way he put it wasn't done very well. A reviewer should never base the quality of a game on how much 'fun' they had. It just isn't a very good justification for when you're judging something.

Part of why Yahtzee dislike Skyward Sword is that he dislikes motion controls...and he dislikes motion controls because he doesn't find them 'fun'. He just doesn't do a very good job of defending his position. He's done plenty of semi-positive reviews of games with motion controls, but he really decided to focus all of his hate on this one game for them. It comes off as inconsistent.

 

[eternal-chaplain]

...I never had any issues with control, and they were certainly the best I've ever seen in a game. The game was easy on the eyes, and the characters were memorable and charming...

I feel this response is exemplary of why a binary argument here may not get as far along as we would wish.

Bear in mind that I have not played Skyward Sword but I have watched both Yahtzee's video review and follow up column, and I would assume he is no liar in the sense that what negative points he makes are true.

That said, I see things as two-sided coin only to say that Yahtzee says the controls are bullocks and the graphics are poor while the above quoted claims the controls are smooth and well done and the aforementioned graphics are 'easy on the eyes.'

Well who do we believe then? It would seem too tedious a task for Yahtzee to post a video in which he explains why the graphical details are poor.
~~
I own a Wii, and to that end I can attest that the motion capturing technology is bullocks overall and obviously a cheap toss-about to make money. I watched a great deal of gameplay footage concerning Skyward Sword from E3 and even on my HD television it was mud. Follow up videos I recently watched on Youtube.com serve to confirm the 'muddiness' of things. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[Hal10k]

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Yahtzee himself mentioned in the article that he is bias against motion controls...but then he covered that up by saying it's just because he was bias against things that weren't fun.

See, he defeated the purpose of admitting bias by then trying to present his personal feelings as absolute facts. After that statement, if you don't think that he in particular is irrationally bias and prone to ignore objectivity, then I don't know what to say. The article also herds together anyone who thinks positively of the game into a big group of fanboys who ignore objective flaws, even though that's logically untrue.

Look, of course he's biased. I'm just going to repost what I wrote on the video thread instead of rewriting my opinion on this:

Whether or not you agree with his criticisms is subjective, of course. But don't disregard him just because he's biased. We're all biased in one way or another; that's one of the downsides of actually possessing a long-term memory in conjunction with the capacity for logical reasoning. Yahtzee's opinion is biased because he dislikes the Wii. The argument you made is biased because you disliked Yahtzee's review. The argument I'm making right now is biased because I'm really uptight about semantics for some reason. If you want a genuinely unbiased review of a game, I'd suggest rolling a ten-sided die.

There's no such thing as being "unfairly biased". And as for "ignoring objectivity"- you do realize that whether or not you enjoy a game is the polar opposite of objectivity, right?

It isn't that Yahtzee is bias...it's the fact that he admits his own bias while still insisting that his opinions are objective facts. His entire review came off to me as nothing but a ranting hated for motion controls in general.

The fact that Yahtzee leaves absolutely no room for error and reduces anyone who strongly disagrees with him to gibbering strawmen is what makes him unfairly bias.

I like Yahtzee...I think his entertaining...but that's it. He's an entertainer. As someone who objectively judges the quality of media, I don't think he's good at what he does. And yes, there are ways to objectively judge a videogame.

When did he say that his opinion was an objective fact? The "prove me wrong, fans" line is a bit of a take-that towards the people who think you can prove an opinion piece wrong.

I'm genuinely curious as to how you think a game can be objectively measured outside of simply listing the components of the game. I'm inclined yet again to simply reiterate one of my earlier arguments: you can describe a video game objectively. Describing what music a game has, the layout and nature of the puzzles, the dialogue spoken by the characters- all that is objective. What you can't do is review a game objectively. Describing how the music meshes with the environments, whether or not the puzzles were fun or intuitive, whether or not any of the characters were interesting- i.e., whether or not the game was good- all that depends on personal experience, and is therefore not objective.

Of course he's not good at offering objective views of games. If you describe something in an objective way, it's an encyclopedia entry, not a review.

 

[Sovvolf]

The way he put it wasn't done very well. A reviewer should never base the quality of a game on how much 'fun' they had. It just isn't a very good justification for when you're judging something.

Then how else should a game be reviewed? based purely on functionality? in that case just about every working game would get a 10/10. The way I see it, when reviewing stuff they're your objective reviewing and that's when functionality comes into place, does the game work, is it broken, do the mechanics not work or not work as intended... There's your functionality. The rest is about the subjectivity, whether or not you had fun with a game is subjective and is pretty important when it comes to playing a game. We play them to have fun and to be entertained.

What is poor reviewing is if they didn't give you the reasons why they didn't have fun with it. However when they do give a reason (which I believe Yahtzee did in the review), it is subjective, they told you why they didn't have fun with it. However, you can look at that and think "Yeah, that actually sounds fun to me" there you go.

When reviewing a game or a movie your not reviewing it strictly for what others may enjoy, your playing the game and giving your personal opinion on it and justifying it. If they didn't have fun with the experience then its just as good a justification as to why they didn't enjoy it.

 

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

...I never had any issues with control, and they were certainly the best I've ever seen in a game. The game was easy on the eyes, and the characters were memorable and charming...

I feel this response is exemplary of why a binary argument here may not get as far along as we would wish.

Bear in mind that I have not played Skyward Sword but I have watched both Yahtzee's video review and follow up column, and I would assume he is no liar in the sense that what negative points he makes are true.

That said, I see things as two-sided coin only to say that Yahtzee says the controls are bullocks and the graphics are poor while the above quoted claims the controls are smooth and well done and the aforementioned graphics are 'easy on the eyes.'

Well who do we believe then? It would seem too tedious a task for Yahtzee to post a video in which he explains why the graphical details are poor.
~~
I own a Wii, and to that end I can attest that the motion capturing technology is bullocks overall and obviously a cheap toss-about to make money. I watched a great deal of gameplay footage concerning Skyward Sword from E3 and even on my HD television it was mud. Follow up videos I recently watched on Youtube.com serve to confirm the 'muddiness' of things. That's all I have to say about that.

Well, keep in mind, Yahtzee seems to despise motion control in all of its forms. Which is okay, I guess. Some people just dislike them.

But what I especially makes him a poor judge in this case is the fact that he seems far more harsh on Skyward Sword than he was on Red Steel 2, both of which use the Wii Motion Plus technology. He actually seemed to like the control in Red Steel 2, which is about the same precision as it is in Skyward Sword. Lemme break it down. There is no 'waggle' in Skyward Sword. The game detects how you hold the remote and tries to track the position of your right arm. You can slash horizontally, diagonally, vertically. You can also thrust, spin attack horizontally, and spin attack vertically. The game calls for precision...it doesn't want you to flail around wildly, it wants you to be aware of where your arm is and swing accordingly.

If someone is too accustomed to frantic waggling this may end up with you swinging when you don't want to. You approach the game with a different mindset...not erratically wiggling, but being as certain in your movements as possible. You gently aim to change the position and then flick quickly to attack. I found that it worked and the only instance of it failing to read my movements properly is when I tried to flail all around DKCR-style.

So, sword-fighting is good, I think. There are problems though. The cursor will sometimes misalign, which can mess up first person view or your bow-aiming. To remedy it, you just press Down to automatically place the cursor back at the center. It's a little annoying until you get used to it.

That's as objective as I can put it. But, you can't form an opinion without trying it. Wii Motion Plus is pretty different from the typical Wii waggling.

 

[Hal10k]

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Yahtzee himself mentioned in the article that he is bias against motion controls...but then he covered that up by saying it's just because he was bias against things that weren't fun.

But here's the thing: what one person considers 'fun' differs from others.

I find it baffling that people can derive enjoyment from Dwarf Fortress. I like the stories that come out of it, but I can't fathom who could put up with it. If I was offered a living salary to explain in detail why I don't like Dwarf Fortress, I would probably due so. And if my appeal was based on humor, I couldn't honestly write the article while trying not to hurt anyone's feelings.

But at the end of the day, my opinion that Dwarf Fortress isn't fun is subjective. So when I say "I don't like it because it's not fun," I mean that I did not find it fun. Same here for Yahtzee

The way he put it wasn't done very well. A reviewer should never base the quality of a game on how much 'fun' they had. It just isn't a very good justification for when you're judging something.

Part of why Yahtzee dislike Skyward Sword is that he dislikes motion controls...and he dislikes motion controls because he doesn't find them 'fun'. He just doesn't do a very good job of defending his position. He's done plenty of semi-positive reviews of games with motion controls, but he really decided to focus all of his hate on this one game for them. It comes off as inconsistent.

He also criticized the art direction, the level design, the characters, and the comparative lack of innovation. He did not, as you say, "focus all of his hate on them". The games that he's complimented that had motion controls either utilized them infrequently or utilized them in a way he enjoyed. Skyward sword apparently hit neither of these marks for him.

And what do you mean that a reviewer shouldn't base his opinion on whether or not something is fun? If the aim of a game is to provide the player with fun, and the reviewer did not have fun, then what is his review supposed to look like? "Every second I spent playing this game was an unending chasm of misery that made me envious of the dead! 10/10!"

Reviews are supposed to explain to you whether or not the reviewer enjoyed the game, and why or why not. Of course "fun" is going to factor into that.

 

[Something Amyss]

The problem with that is it's anecdotal evidence.

I've played the game. I have no problem with the precision or timing of the controls. My sword is held where I want it to be hold. I attack from the direction that I want and it happens when I want it to happen. Any lag that may exist has never negatively impacted my gameplay to the point where I think it's a legitimate flaw.

And yet there are still people who insist that the controls in any motion game don't work the way they want. I don't have anyway to disprove that because my satisfaction is all from personal experience. It's a hard topic to discuss.

Yes, controller lag is a real thing, but both sides are anecdotal. God bless the false equivalence fallacy.

But at least that was more honest than "if it exists, I dismiss it."

 

[ResonanceSD]

Skyward Sword

Prove me wrong, fans.

Read Full Article

You can't expect anything else from fans of a game that's been re-released in several incarnations since the late eighties. Like every other Nintendo title.

 

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Yahtzee himself mentioned in the article that he is bias against motion controls...but then he covered that up by saying it's just because he was bias against things that weren't fun.

See, he defeated the purpose of admitting bias by then trying to present his personal feelings as absolute facts. After that statement, if you don't think that he in particular is irrationally bias and prone to ignore objectivity, then I don't know what to say. The article also herds together anyone who thinks positively of the game into a big group of fanboys who ignore objective flaws, even though that's logically untrue.

Look, of course he's biased. I'm just going to repost what I wrote on the video thread instead of rewriting my opinion on this:

Whether or not you agree with his criticisms is subjective, of course. But don't disregard him just because he's biased. We're all biased in one way or another; that's one of the downsides of actually possessing a long-term memory in conjunction with the capacity for logical reasoning. Yahtzee's opinion is biased because he dislikes the Wii. The argument you made is biased because you disliked Yahtzee's review. The argument I'm making right now is biased because I'm really uptight about semantics for some reason. If you want a genuinely unbiased review of a game, I'd suggest rolling a ten-sided die.

There's no such thing as being "unfairly biased". And as for "ignoring objectivity"- you do realize that whether or not you enjoy a game is the polar opposite of objectivity, right?

It isn't that Yahtzee is bias...it's the fact that he admits his own bias while still insisting that his opinions are objective facts. His entire review came off to me as nothing but a ranting hated for motion controls in general.

The fact that Yahtzee leaves absolutely no room for error and reduces anyone who strongly disagrees with him to gibbering strawmen is what makes him unfairly bias.

I like Yahtzee...I think his entertaining...but that's it. He's an entertainer. As someone who objectively judges the quality of media, I don't think he's good at what he does. And yes, there are ways to objectively judge a videogame.

When did he say that his opinion was an objective fact? The "prove me wrong, fans" line is a bit of a take-that towards the people who think you can prove an opinion piece wrong.

I'm genuinely curious as to how you think a game can be objectively measured outside of simply listing the components of the game. I'm inclined yet again to simply reiterate one of my earlier arguments: you can describe a video game objectively. Describing what music a game has, the layout and nature of the puzzles, the dialogue spoken by the characters- all that is objective. What you can't do is review a game objectively. Describing how the music meshes with the environments, whether or not the puzzles were fun or intuitive, whether or not any of the characters were interesting- i.e., whether or not the game was good- all that depends on personal experience, and is therefore not objective.

Of course he's not good at offering objective views of games. If you describe something in an objective way, it's an encyclopedia entry, not a review.

There are objective ways to determine whether or not characters are dynamic, whether the music compliments the layout and graphical look of the game or not, whether the puzzles or objectives are constructed in a way that gives any player enough information to work with, etc.

Games can have objective flaws.

Also, the context in which 'prove me wrong' is used as well as the suggestion that he's only bias towards things that aren't fun is enough for me to come to the conclusion that Yahtzee is incapable of differentiating between personal opinions and objective facts.

 

[Arina Love]

played it in my friend's house and all i can say that mandatory motion controls can eat sh*t and die game was meh as it is, coupled with motion controls it was simply unbearable.

 

[Sovvolf]

There are objective ways to determine whether or not characters are dynamic, whether the music compliments the layout and graphical look of the game or not, whether the puzzles or objectives are constructed in a way that gives any player enough information to work with, etc.

One could argue that all of those are subjective. Like how much information is needed to be able to work the puzzle. You could put a short sentence and say "That's enough" however it might be in my opinion that you'd need a little more than that to work it. Also, music is a again is extremely subjective, the graphical look is a mixed bag as is the characters dynamic.

Games can have objective flaws.

Yes, yes they can. However many if not all of those are down to pure functionality. It would be near impossible to make a review of a game while remaining completely objective. Truly would just sound like you're describing a game. The second where you start to use words like good and bad, it becomes subjective.

Yahtzee is incapable of differentiating between personal opinions and objective facts.

A review isn't an objective fact it is a personal opinion. A review, at its bare basics is giving someone a product and asking them to come back and tell you what they thought of it.

 

[Hal10k]

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Yahtzee himself mentioned in the article that he is bias against motion controls...but then he covered that up by saying it's just because he was bias against things that weren't fun.

See, he defeated the purpose of admitting bias by then trying to present his personal feelings as absolute facts. After that statement, if you don't think that he in particular is irrationally bias and prone to ignore objectivity, then I don't know what to say. The article also herds together anyone who thinks positively of the game into a big group of fanboys who ignore objective flaws, even though that's logically untrue.

Look, of course he's biased. I'm just going to repost what I wrote on the video thread instead of rewriting my opinion on this:

Whether or not you agree with his criticisms is subjective, of course. But don't disregard him just because he's biased. We're all biased in one way or another; that's one of the downsides of actually possessing a long-term memory in conjunction with the capacity for logical reasoning. Yahtzee's opinion is biased because he dislikes the Wii. The argument you made is biased because you disliked Yahtzee's review. The argument I'm making right now is biased because I'm really uptight about semantics for some reason. If you want a genuinely unbiased review of a game, I'd suggest rolling a ten-sided die.

There's no such thing as being "unfairly biased". And as for "ignoring objectivity"- you do realize that whether or not you enjoy a game is the polar opposite of objectivity, right?

It isn't that Yahtzee is bias...it's the fact that he admits his own bias while still insisting that his opinions are objective facts. His entire review came off to me as nothing but a ranting hated for motion controls in general.

The fact that Yahtzee leaves absolutely no room for error and reduces anyone who strongly disagrees with him to gibbering strawmen is what makes him unfairly bias.

I like Yahtzee...I think his entertaining...but that's it. He's an entertainer. As someone who objectively judges the quality of media, I don't think he's good at what he does. And yes, there are ways to objectively judge a videogame.

When did he say that his opinion was an objective fact? The "prove me wrong, fans" line is a bit of a take-that towards the people who think you can prove an opinion piece wrong.

I'm genuinely curious as to how you think a game can be objectively measured outside of simply listing the components of the game. I'm inclined yet again to simply reiterate one of my earlier arguments: you can describe a video game objectively. Describing what music a game has, the layout and nature of the puzzles, the dialogue spoken by the characters- all that is objective. What you can't do is review a game objectively. Describing how the music meshes with the environments, whether or not the puzzles were fun or intuitive, whether or not any of the characters were interesting- i.e., whether or not the game was good- all that depends on personal experience, and is therefore not objective.

Of course he's not good at offering objective views of games. If you describe something in an objective way, it's an encyclopedia entry, not a review.

There are objective ways to determine whether or not characters are dynamic, whether the music compliments the layout and graphical look of the game or not, whether the puzzles or objectives are constructed in a way that gives any player enough information to work with, etc.

Games can have objective flaws.

Also, the context in which 'prove me wrong' is used as well as the suggestion that he's only bias towards things that aren't fun is enough for me to come to the conclusion that Yahtzee is incapable of differentiating between personal opinions and objective facts.

You can objectively ascertain whether a character is dynamic. You cannot objectively ascertain whether that character is interesting, or pleasant to talk to, or even whether or not that character being dynamic is a good thing.

You can ascertain whether or not the rhythm and tone of music fits the stereotypical depiction of a setting. You cannot ascertain whether or not the setting and music is interesting, overplayed, or just pleasant to experience.

You can ascertain whether or not a puzzle gives you the necessary information to complete it. You cannot ascertain whether or not that information makes sense in the context of the puzzle, whether or not the way the information is presented makes it too easy or too difficult, or whether or not the steps you take to complete the puzzle are fun or not.

This is the difference between objectivity and opinion.

When Yahtzee says he's biased against games he doesn't consider fun, it's perfectly obvious that he's referring to games he considers not to be fun. He stated back in the mailbag showdown that his reviews weren't meant to be taken as the end-all, be-all. You're the one who started trying to apply objectivity to an opinion piece, not him.