Skyward Sword

SilverUchiha

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SPOILERS

cthulhumythos said:
one of my main complaints is that about 80% of this game is just busywork. wanna go to the water dungeon? go backtrack to the first dungeon and get some water at the end. there was simply way too much retracing. also the lack of ganon. i was really hoping he was behind it all, because at this point i laugh whenever that happens.
Why? I think it was kind of refreshing Ganon has little to do with the events of this game at all. From what I've read about it, this game is actually his origin, in a sense of speaking. Check this wiki article if you don't believe me. http://www.zeldawiki.org/Demise#Background

Granted, I'm a little annoyed that this makes Ganon less special. It's more like he's a pawn in Demise's grand plan or something. Again, I like that we see what causes Ganon to exist, but I don't like what it is. I was hoping something a little more... i dunno... crazy.

interestingly, my favorite zelda games (up to this point) have been the ones to break away from the formula like wind waker and majora's mask. speaking of which, is Majora's Mask coming to the 3ds? i'd be curious to see a zp of it, as it is one of the stranger titles in the series. as in, it has way more atmosphere* than the other ones. or not, because there are hells of the other titles out there to review, and there's been like, what, 4 zelda reviews already?
No. I feel like the remake of Ocarina of Time for the 3DS was a terribly stupid idea and to make Majora's Mask for the 3DS would be an equally stupid idea, perhaps more so. We (as in Yahtzee, myself, and probably many others) already feel like Zelda doesn't innovate enough to be truly amazing like the fanboys say. Remaking Ocarina only reinforces that notion as that is the game that seems to be copy-pasted the most. And while Majora's Mask was, indeed, unique, to remake it would only undermine that uniqueness. I would like to see a similar unique title brought to the modern console generation, but I don't want the same thing every time. And I especially don't want to be charged $40 for what amounts to nothing more than a graphical upgrade. (Yes, I'm looking at you too, Halo Anniversary... even though I let that slide because that was literally made for the fans and nothing else).

But that's my two cents on the matter. Take what you will out of it.
 

2xDouble

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I have a serious, non-Zelda-related question, Mr. Croshaw. For your Wii sensor bar, are you using the wired version or the wireless?

I've never experienced laggy controls on the Wii unless the remote had a low battery, so I find it curious you're encountering them so regularly across several Wii game reviews. I have to assume there might be another issue in play. If we can identify it and bring it to their attention, perhaps Nintendo can correct it in this or the next generation.
 

cthulhumythos

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SilverUchiha said:
SPOILERS

cthulhumythos said:
one of my main complaints is that about 80% of this game is just busywork. wanna go to the water dungeon? go backtrack to the first dungeon and get some water at the end. there was simply way too much retracing. also the lack of ganon. i was really hoping he was behind it all, because at this point i laugh whenever that happens.
Why? I think it was kind of refreshing Ganon has little to do with the events of this game at all. From what I've read about it, this game is actually his origin, in a sense of speaking. Check this wiki article if you don't believe me. http://www.zeldawiki.org/Demise#Background

Granted, I'm a little annoyed that this makes Ganon less special. It's more like he's a pawn in Demise's grand plan or something. Again, I like that we see what causes Ganon to exist, but I don't like what it is. I was hoping something a little more... i dunno... crazy.

interestingly, my favorite zelda games (up to this point) have been the ones to break away from the formula like wind waker and majora's mask. speaking of which, is Majora's Mask coming to the 3ds? i'd be curious to see a zp of it, as it is one of the stranger titles in the series. as in, it has way more atmosphere* than the other ones. or not, because there are hells of the other titles out there to review, and there's been like, what, 4 zelda reviews already?
No. I feel like the remake of Ocarina of Time for the 3DS was a terribly stupid idea and to make Majora's Mask for the 3DS would be an equally stupid idea, perhaps more so. We (as in Yahtzee, myself, and probably many others) already feel like Zelda doesn't innovate enough to be truly amazing like the fanboys say. Remaking Ocarina only reinforces that notion as that is the game that seems to be copy-pasted the most. And while Majora's Mask was, indeed, unique, to remake it would only undermine that uniqueness. I would like to see a similar unique title brought to the modern console generation, but I don't want the same thing every time. And I especially don't want to be charged $40 for what amounts to nothing more than a graphical upgrade. (Yes, I'm looking at you too, Halo Anniversary... even though I let that slide because that was literally made for the fans and nothing else).

But that's my two cents on the matter. Take what you will out of it.
yeah, i know the whole ganon being the final boss thing happens way too often, but that's kind of whole reason i enjoy it. it's pretty much become a running gag. also, this is the second time i've been called out for this. i wasn't using it as constructive criticism, i was being silly; however i made the mistake of assuming silliness would be understood as such, when on the internet more ridiculous things have been said in seriousness. it also probably didn't help that i wedged it between two actual complaints.

also, while i respect your opinion on the remake matter, you didn't have to distance yourself from people who enjoy the series by calling them "fanboys" it's simply derogatory and condescending.
 

Stavros Dimou

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I loved the Zelda series in the past,but the way the series is turning the last years is not of my liking.Yatzhee is doing well criticizing the series and I'm not a hater for saying that,actually I'm a Zelda fan that thinks that Nintendo should hear some nasty words from a popular publication in case they start caring for player's feedback more.

I got in to the series playing Ocarina of Time at its time in Nintendo 64,and after that I played Majora's Mask.
Ocarina of Time was a phenomenal game for its age ecxelling in all departments like graphics,music,gameplay and story.But Ocarina of Time spoiled me.I thought that innovations like that where a usual thing for the series,but I was wrong.
When the next game of the series,Majora's Mask came out I was even more impressed with the series and I liked the turn the series where getting at.

Majora's mask too had pretty decent graphics for its age,very good soundtrack,and gameplay-wise it had lots of rpg elements.The number and quality of the sidequests where greately improved,and the AI for the npcs was outstanding for its era.Npcs had had routines and did different things in different times of the day as we see in Skyrim.

The tone of these 2 N64 games was very dark I say.
In Ocarina of Time we watched persons dying,villages getting burned,and there was even a zombie attack at Hyrule's Castle Town!
In Majora's Mask we see people dying too,being cursed,and of course there is always this moon above you that is about to fall of,and you have that feel that the lives of the people in this world are actually depended on you.


In a frame of 3-4 years I only played these 2 Zelda games and I have come to expect similar experiences and standards from these series in the later games..
But Nintendo seemed to kept the things I wasn't really interested for,and dropped what made these games special for me.

Zelda games after the two N64 games changed much:​

*The stories of the newer games doesn't follow the events of the two N64 games.
They aren't sequels,they just have the same looks and names for the characters and some of the same game mechanics.So the Link I play as in Wind Waker or Twilight Princess has nothing to do with the Link I play as in OoT and MM.That's bad.Because I loved Link from the N64 games,and he is my favourite Link ever.

*The series gradually lost their more mature and dark tone.
I feel that newer Zelda games are more "kid friendly" than past ones and this is for a variety of reasons.The art direction and color pallete is more cartoony/anime than ever,and curses and death is being wiped out of the series.It feels more like kid's game than a teen's game.

*Nintendo stopped careing about graphics.
Yeah gameplay might be more important than graphics,but still graphics are an important factor than can make as enjoy games more or less. Super Nintendo was able to render better graphics than Sega Mega Drive,N64 could render better graphics than Playstation,and Gamecube could render better graphics than PS2,but Wii broke the tradition and its graphics aren't acceptable by today's standards.Harsh but true.

*Gameplay was dumbed.
Yeah,I know that some Zelda fans will tell me "It was the n64 games that broke Zelda gameplay and became more complex!Link's Awakening was as simple as Skyward's Sword and it was fine!".But dear fan let me inform you that Link's Awakening was simplier at a time that games in general where much simplier than that.Ocarina of Time brought a variety of brand new mechanics and some of them have been kept until today as they where,others where simplified,and some others completely vanished from the series.None of them was improved.

*Less side-quests,nerfed A.I.,less secrets,less unique items,and less easter eggs.
When I talk about the number and quality of side-quests in Majora's Mask,or the A.I. interactions of the npcs,the usual reply I have come to expect from Zelda fanboys is that "Zelda is not an RPG!It doesn't need AI for its npcs or Side-Quests!"
Well my dear friend you are only partly right.Zeldas are being described as "action adventure" games by Nintendo currently,but back in older days there was a time when Zelda was described as an action rpg game by many players AND magazines.Actually there where huge arguments on wether Zelda is a pure RPG series,or an Action Adventure series with considerable amounts of RPG features.The only things that Zelda was missing to be called "RPG" by everybody was that the player wouldn't gain XP points from monsters and that combat wasn't turn-based.Everything else that RPGs had was there: An open explorable world,npcs who do things in the world and give quests,gradual item discovery,gradual empowerment of the character's abilities,dungeons,monsters, swords, magic, caves.. You need to learn that ZELDA was the game that actually FOUNDED the term "Action RPG".
Before Zelda all RPG games where turn-based and most of them linear. If you can play Skyrim today and go wherever you want and have real-time combat it's because of Zelda.
So give a rest to the argument "Zelda doesn't need side quests or AI for its npcs" or I will eat you!
So after this small history lesson let's go back to the topic: Majora's Mask had a big (for its time) number of side-quests.I loved that.And I was actually expecting an imrpovement in both number and quality of side-quests in the next games.
But gradually their number was lessened,and their importance was minimized.Twilight Princess had less side-quests than the fingers of my arms,and where completely unimportant.
Along with that the actual content was minimized too.Less items,less easter eggs,less things to discover in general,which leads to less hours of gameplay.




These points considerably changed how I view the series.
Modern Zelda games lack the darkness,the maturity,the depth,the graphics,and the gameplay I loved and had come to expect.Don't wander if you find that most Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask fans, when they are not playing Ocarina of Time 3D they play games like Skyrim over Skyward Sword.Zelda was the first series to do some great things but in the course of history the franchise abandoned some of the things that made it special and only kept some known story events that by now are cliche and dull.While Zelda was leaving what invented behind (Action RPG Legacy) other series that started much later than Zelda,have taken Zelda's legacy and advanced it in a state that it surpasses the orignal series who founded the legacy.
From the first week of Skyrim's release a mod that allowes you to play as Link came out,and modders are working on bringing all kind of Zelda elements and items in... Skyrim.
The master sword,the hero's shield,Majora's Moon,even Gorons and Zoras are imported to Skyrim.
Let this be a lesson to Nintendo that ignoring their hardcore fans and abandoning winner gameplay formulas they invented themselves is a bad thing.
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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Mr. Omega said:
On the motion controls thing: just him complaining.
It's a fair complaint, though. It's like video game companies sat down an all agreed that they need to find a way to make the age-old "It's the controller's fault" complaint that sore losers make into a valid gripe. Well good for them I guess, we've created games in which it is genuinely the controller's fault if you lose... now can we go back to the control method that just works, please?
 

Edhellen

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Did you even look at Links face when he fought Ghirahim the last time? Did you just ignore the hate in Links eyes?
I couldn't ever look at Link's face without laughing. I mean, how could you possibly take that seriously? He looks just like a creepy flanderization of the late Michael Jackson. It's truly an astonishing achievement that they went with a bright cartoonish style and *still* managed to invoke the uncanny valley.

Anyway, I didn't finish the game because I literally could not play the harp strumming section. Where you have to wave your arm back and forth in rhythm? I did the postman's side quest in Majora's Mask first try, and I spent three hours waving my arm back and forth (and giving myself quite the shoulder injury in the process that still hasn't gone away) with no effect. I couldn't do it. Did anyone have as hard of a time with this as I did?

It's probably for the best I stopped playing at that point anyway: From what I've read about the game, shortly after this they bring back the stupid "run away from invincible enemies who can one-hit-kill you" from Phantom Hourglass. I can hardly imagine anything less fun.

By the way, just to let all my fellow Fi-haters know, you can use an action replay code to completely remove her from the game. And it is awesome.
 

Arppis

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I never understood all the hate for Wind Waker. It was the most insteresting Zelda game after Link to the Past. And I haven't been really interested about Zelda game since. As someone who has only tried the newer games, they seem really "samey". Windwaker didn't have that for one. It felt pretty unique.
 

Mangue Surfer

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Arppis said:
I never understood all the hate for Wind Waker. It was the most insteresting Zelda game after Link to the Past. And I haven't been really interested about Zelda game since. As someone who has only tried the newer games, they seem really "samey". Windwaker didn't have that for one. It felt pretty unique.
There isn?t much to do besides going around. Back in the Brutal legends zero punctuation Yahtzee Said that open world sandbox games make things less focused in other words, slop games. His opinion certainly changed, but what not changed is the fact that the open world sandbox factor make the games more slop and WW is the most sandboxist Zelda game.
 

angel85

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I got Skyward Sword for Christmas, so I only just started it, but for the most part I already agree with your review. The motion controls using that stupid motion plus make the game more tiring to play, limiting my sessions, and that FUCKING BIRD is so annoying to control! Having to hold the stupid controller level so I can steer the thing like a fucking boat is only slightly less annoying than having to re-calibrate the stupid thing every 5 minutes. This game would have been better if there were options for a classic control scheme, or even regular motion controls, OR EVEN A FUCKING LEFT HAND TOGGLE!

Motion plus is a failed experiment, good in theory and sporting very nice technology, but tedious and tiring to use in practice, I hope future games flatly ignore the stupid thing and allows it to fade into obscurity like that wii heart monitor.
 

RA92

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I've never played any Zelda games beyond A Link to the Past on the GBA. In fact, I'll say the GBC, GBA and NDS were the best gaming system purchases other than my PC, but I never played any Nintendo games. Frankly, in 2011, I would not pay 50 bucks for a game like Skyward Sword. Beyond the nostalgia factor of growing up with the series, sorry, there simply isn't much worth to it.
 

CapitalistPig

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I don't mind a few silly quests here and there in my RPG games but lets be real here. This is Nintendo's Champion heading into the new year? pay $50 for a game that covers a measly 3 dungeons and a game time that is 1/3 what it should be, with volumes of substance missing and annoying sidekicks. No thanks I say. And its Zelda no less. Shouldn't it be, you know, indisputably the best latest installment? When did gamers start settling for mediocre games? Is it conditioning to accept the cheapening of a sturdy franchise that dates back to my own childhood? The fact that these arguments occur with validity is proof they blew it. "But wait!" they say, "You're not fairly judging the Wii motion controls." screw off with the Wii motion controls they were a novelty 3 years ago and now we have 3DS with more get up and go then a Wii these days. But enjoy yourselves and waste your money.
 

Jdb

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I have some flaws with this game too. Some of them aren't really flaws, but okay things Nintendo could've done better because they have the talent and resources.

Motion controls - This didn't add a lot to combat. Combat is still "run into enemy and attack as fast as you can." Except now I have to take a second to see which direction they're guarding? Why are enemies guarding most of the time anyways? I thought I would be getting into actual sword fights, not playing Simon says.

The world - Only three locations in the whole game, and you visit them three times. That's not a lot of variety compared to other Zelda games. Plus all the padding... yikes. The final song quest line killed any interest I had for another play through.

Upgrade system - Instead of doing something like a mini dungeon to upgrade our equipment we have to play Monster Hunter Lite. Errr... It works, but it feels like it doesn't belong in a Zelda game.
 

OldNewNewOld

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Stavros Dimou said:
I would agree with most things you wrote except the stopped caring about graphics and losing the darker tone.

N64 was much stronger than the PS1, same goes for the GameCube.
Both of them lost to PS 1 and PS 2. PS3 and XBOX 360 are several times stronger than the Wii. The Wii has won this generations "war".

They didn't really stop caring about the graphics. They just realized that the hardware needed for the today's graphics level is to expensive for a console. They did got a bit to much back. A middle-ground would be great. Between the Xbox 360 and the Wii.

The wanted to make the Wii as accessible as possible. This is the reason why they made is weaker. I agree that they overdid it.
But Nintendo also learned from that mistake (and hopefully from the PS3 and 3DS disaster) and they will not repeat it with the WiiU. You will see a lot article writing that the WiiU is barely stronger than the 360, which isn't true. It's much stronger. It will maybe be weaker than the next xbox or PS generation, but not much. Although I doubt it will be weaker.

About the dark tone, only Majora's Mask was darker toned. The rest was always children friendly.


But I still liked the game. The hero mode was a really challenge.

Edhellen said:
Did you even look at Links face when he fought Ghirahim the last time? Did you just ignore the hate in Links eyes?
I couldn't ever look at Link's face without laughing. I mean, how could you possibly take that seriously? He looks just like a creepy flanderization of the late Michael Jackson. It's truly an astonishing achievement that they went with a bright cartoonish style and *still* managed to invoke the uncanny valley.
Really? Because I really liked his face. After Wind Waker, Skyward Sword has the best looking face. It's adorable.
 

Mr. Fahrenheit

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"Yes, I'm biased against motion controls, but that's just a sub-heading of the broader overall bias against games that aren't fun."

"Prove me wrong, fans."

These are two of the most amateur statements I've ever seen from a reviewer.
 

telocaster

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Lordofthesuplex said:
One complaint that usually gets directed at me at this juncture is that pointing out how samey the games are has become a tired argument. I fucking agree, it certainly has, and yet, the problem hasn't gone anywhere, so I'm going to keep using it.
No Yahtzee, it has gone somewhere. The fact that you don't want to notice it, doesn't change that.

Yes, I'm biased against motion controls, but that's just a sub-heading of the broader overall bias against games that aren't fun. I've been trying to figure out a quick, pithy, all-encompassing way to express my reasons for thinking that motion controls are poisonous to gaming, so I can bring my opinion across in conversation without having to rant for ten minutes, and I think I've come up with something I like: Motion controls are a system wherein a game can fail you for something that completely wasn't your fault. Like smacking an electrified sword because it was horizontal half a second ago and the game only just registered your horizontal swipe. There ya go.
Translation: I cannot work a Wiimote for crap.

There is no such delay. If anything, it's the enemies changing their blocking stance a little too quickly that's the problem, not the motion controls.

I guess I was hoping to end on an actual point, but I haven't got anything wittier than "Fuck you, Skyward Sword, and also fanboys."
This is elitism plain and simple. You can't accept the fact that people are not as pretentious and have absurdly high standards as you and therefore have to generalize everyone who doesn't agree with the actual fanboys. Seriously, I'm done with Yahtzee as far as Nintendo games go. I'm only watching the stuff from the other companies he reviews from now on because if he's not biased against Nintendo then he clearly is obsessed with enhancing his standards on how he critiques games whenever that company is under the chopping block. And I hate it when anyone does that to any company. (Yes even the companies that piss me off)
Hey you can take peoples words out of context, good for you.

Reviews are SUBJECTIVE. I find it annoying when people think that things like reviewing a game or movie can be done objectively, Of course personal bias comes into it every review done by anyone. This article was response to his frustration that fanboys once again got butthurt because he did not like one game.

Also he does not hate nintendo, He hates how they essentially pissed all over the hardcore fanbase for casual gamers, He liked Super Mario Galaxy, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Earthbound, and the Mario RPGs
 

Mr. Fahrenheit

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I don't really understand the complaints about Fi. Unlike certain previous companions, I actually found her to be useful. Enemy analysis almost always told me what I wanted to know. Rumors often led me to certain sidequests that I never would have found anyway. She doesn't really interrupt the gameplay very often. Her obvious advice usually come out in scripted events that would have happened anyway. I found her disposition to be unique and comical. She was data-oriented to the point of absurdity and I found to be humorous. It made me like her more...like when coming upon a Kikwi and she still gives a 5% possibility that it's Zelda.

As for motion controls, I like them as well. The problem, at least how I see it, is that it's a control scheme that calls for precision rather than waggling. If you flail around frantically, you'll of course hit things you don't meant to...or move the sword in a way you didn't intend. You aren't supposed to wave your arm at random...you're supposed to be aware of the position of your arm and swing accordingly. Some people just can't seem to get this. I've seen players continually jiggle to and fro for no reason and then complain that the game is nothing but shaking. Of course mindless motions will activate the controls, but the player is encouraged to be calm and precise. I think the controls were implemented well. My first time using Wii Motion Plus, so it took me a few minutes to get the hang of it, but I haven't had any problems since.

The game has objective flaws, but I don't think Fi or the motion controls are part of them. Fi is an interesting character for me and I think the controls are reasonably precise and intuitive.