Skyward Sword

[Hal10k]

I'm not speaking out of personal attack to Yahtzee...simply acknowledging the fact that he isn't a legitimate reviewer. He's an entertainer. He wants to rile people up. He wants to make negative reviews because negative reviews mean more attention and more pageviews. This is something that's profitable for him.

It just surprises me that there are people who get genuinely anger over him or try to defend him as a legitimate journalist. He's got a way with words and that's about it.

Yahtzee is a critic. He's a critic with extremely negative views, and he's a critic who happens to disagree with you on this point. Neither of these things revoke his status as a critic. The only things that make a review "legitimate" are having experienced the entirety of a story and a detailed explanation of the reviewer's opinion. If he disagrees with you, he is not an illegitimate reviewer, that's just proof that the two of you do, in fact, operate on a different set of opinions and assumptions. If he's biased in a certain direction, that doesn't mean he's an illegitimate reviewer, that just means he possesses a long-term memory in conjunction with the capacity for logical reasoning.

In short: there is no such thing as a "legitimate reviewer". There are just reviews you agree with, and ones you don't.

Moving on.

He said he was only bias against things that were not fun, implying fun is something that can be objectively measured.

Or perhaps he sat down with the game, played it for the expected length of time, and- get this- did not have fun? "Fun" is something that varies from person to person. Yahtzee knows this, and has acknowledged it several times in the past. I know this. You probably know this. There are several species of sponge that, despite lacking a proper nervous system, are nonetheless familiar with the fact that the idea of "fun" is different for different people. Yahtzee's just saying that he isn't going to give a positive review to a game that heavily emphasizes motion controls being used in a way he doesn't enjoy.

The problem isn't Yahtzee's opinions...it's the fact that he takes those opinions and does present them as facts, regardless of whatever backpedaling he does later.

I ask you again: when has Yahtzee ever presented one of his opinions as a fact, outside of hyperbole or quotes taken out of context like the one above? The very fact that it's listed as a review series should have tipped you off in some way.

Then, whenever a group of people disagree with his opinions, he dismisses them as 'fanboys' and insults their intelligence for not agreeing with him.

I don't seem to recall him ever insulting the Zelda fanbase in this article or his original review. All he acknowledged was that the Zelda fanbase had torn into him for giving a negative review for Skyward Sword, which, if you'll examine the original video thread, they did.

Yahtzee prompted readers to 'prove him wrong' with this opinion.

Which, as I previously pointed out, was an insult towards the sort of people who think you can actually prove an opinion piece wrong.

 

[Sovvolf]

snip

Alright, I bow out, you and I seem to be saying the same things, probably doesn't need double teaming with it and you seem to be able to put it better than my arse can -thumbs up- I'ma make a pizza and play some video games while pushing the refresh button on the page.

 

[chaosyoshimage]

That said, the new Mario which I just started playing is really good and that's coming from someone who was disappointed with the Galaxy games.

That's probably because Nintendo isn't trying to shove its motion controls down your throat with Galaxy and NSMB Wii.

I was talking about Super Mario 3D Land, if I recall those two games did have annoying motion controls. I hated shaking the Wii Remote like an idiot after I died in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and those annoying bird levels in Super Mario Galaxy 2 made me quit realizing I wasn't going to get a 100%.

 

[Madmanonfire]

Full power skyward snip.

Excellent post. I was hoping to find one such as this in this stream of near-mindless hate.

As for the EP, I'll just correct one little point: The whip may not be used for a whole lot, but you can use it to steal the horns from the sides of certain bokoblins which not only adds to your materials an item that was previously not very common to find, but it makes the bokoblin react in anger and become vulnerable for an easy kill. That's something completely optional. It can also be used to reach drops like hearts, but that can be difficult concerning aiming. :/

And I'll just list a few moments I heartily enjoyed in SS:
- Rolling into the walls of certain houses, breaking things, and making the residents get ticked.
- The harp minigame at the pumpkin bar. More fun than it should've been.
- Groose. He had his funny moments.
- Pipit. He's just a great friend.
- Fi singing. It made me laugh.
- The Beetle item. Each zelda game has their just plain fun tools and this is one of them.

Sure, the imprisoned fights were annoying and the clawshots were disappointing (I think they've been used enough by now.), but the game was very enjoyable to play through. Also, new game+ is always a bonus.

 

[him over there]

Prove me wrong, fans.

Sorry Yahtzee, don't have to. I liked the artstyle and thought it had better structure and character development. "Because some people like that sort of stuff."

 

[Cecilthedarkknight_234]

Okay Yatzee I am up to your game and I can prove it. You are unwillingly biased due in part that you hate any/all motion controls for the Wii. You will go in unwillingly to judge the game fairly based on this I don't care if it's Zelda, Madworld or No More Hero's you always ***** about them.

This comment is in no way meant to harass or flame you, but I need a challenge. Also here is fun fact I don't even like the game myself.

 

[Kenkaku]

I honestly think that Skyward Sword is the best Zelda game ever made, and Mr. Crosshaw here is basically insulting me for thinking that.

Going "NUH UH THAT WASN'T A FLAW" is as valid an argument as any. A flaw that you fail to notice isn't a flaw. There's a difference between actual flaws that reduce enjoyment and nitpicking "flaws" that you have to actively search for in order to find.

And what exactly is there to miss about the first paragraph, anyway? Of course people are defensive when the best games on the market are attacked instead of the hundreds of thousands of games more deserving of it.

To be honest, I actually pity Yahtzee for being so spoiled that he can't see the game as a masterpiece. It's like he doesn't even know what a bad game is.

I want to say that you're trolling, but I'll respond anyway.

A flaw that you fail to notice doesn't make it any less of a flaw. That's like saying a tree that falls with no one around to hear it doesn't make a sound.

Unlike most fans of this game, I'm assuming, I wasn't hyped for Skyward Sword; I was trying not to be. Last time I was, I felt that Twilight Princess didn't live up to the hype, so I tried to keep my expectations modest so I would enjoy the game more.

All that did was prevent me from glossing over its numerous flaws.

That's right: I'm claiming that even though you think the game is a flawless masterpiece, that's because you refuse to acknowledge its flaws because you were too excited for it. You played through this game, ran into several things that you normally wouldn't like, but actively ignored them because you didn't want to think that the game you've been anticipating all this time didn't meet your expectations.

Let's be honest here: any game that incorporates the design philosophy of Skyward Sword would have been panned by critics and gamers alike if it weren't so heavily anticipated.

The game is padded with long, unnecessary, and mandatory fetch quests, there are several gameplay instances that don't advance the plot (including a contrived mine cart sequence ending with a boss you already beat that doesn't amount to anything), the art direction is random to the point that it's almost difficult to look at, we go full circle back to the launch days of the Wii where motion controls are needlessly tacked on in so many aspects of the game, you revisit areas that you already beat (including an entire dungeon), you fight three bosses at least twice, the game is constantly reminding you of things that you already know, there's only one town in the game and three areas to explore, it takes longer to find dungeons than it takes to beat them, and the combat lacks refinement but still punishes you if it doesn't work properly (I want to swing one direction, but it makes me swing in another and I take damage from an enemy).

And that's not even going into comparing this to other Zelda games: there are fewer towns, fewer dungeons, fewer enemy types, fewer bosses, fewer items, the overall game is smaller, and if it weren't for all the padding, the story probably would have lasted us about six to eight hours.

But wait, there's more: let's remember that Nintendo claimed to work on this game for five years, and they had all the funding brought in by their Wii and DS sales, and they were completely unrestrained due to working on a full DVD while incorporating modest production values with no voice acting.

And you're telling me that this is the 'best Zelda game ever made?' I get that people are entitled to their opinions... but yours is awfully flimsy.

 

[Grabbin Keelz]

This might be a good time to say this but I never hated Navi, ever. She always pointed out helpful information to me (I was 8 at the time) she pointed out enemy weak spots, and for fucks sake, at least she gave me the OPTION to listen to her.

Also I remember hearing a lot about the argument with the art style in this game. Here's my opinion, most Nintendo Gamecube games looked better than this.

 

[FinalHeart95]

Honestly, I don't take Yahtzee seriously as a reviewer. A comedian/entertainer sure, but I don't really take his opinions to heart. If I did, I'd never play a goddamn game in existence.

Granted, he could be right about this game. I'm only a few hours into Skyward Sword, and although I've enjoyed it so far, I'm not far enough to form a good opinion about the game. Still, in general, I feel like he's not a person who enjoys gaming, just a person who enjoys the occasional game.

 

[Devin Miller]

I agree with some of the points brought up in the article, but where I disagree is what probably makes this my favorite Zelda game so far. I truly liked Fi. At first she got on my nerves, but as soon as I turned off the overlay I didn't even notice when Fi wanted to tell me anything other than cutscenes and dowsing. Fi never interrupted my fights because she would only say something when you talk to her explicitly. Fi's character actually grew which is something no other Zelda companion managed, even my favorite, Midna. I also real enjoyex the motion controls. I agree with the example given about pointless fetch but throughout most of the game I didn't even notice that it was fetch, with the exception of the example from the article.

 

[Dunkerloop]

Personally, I really did like the game, but in the end, Fi would probably, no, has a GUARANTEED spot as my pick for the worst sidekick ever. I plugged my ears whenever I heard her voice, which was rather often, and got annoyed at how often she repeated stuff we already learned literally 10 seconds before.

Eh, I liked her. The fact that she made her statements with such absolute certainty made her seem so cynical...like she was treating Link as an idiot. I didn't find her to be as intrusive as so many made her out to be.

Before playing the game, I was under the impression that she interrupted you whenever you were low on health. Instead, when you get down to three hearts, a soft chime sounds three times and then doesn't repeat...and you don't even have to talk to her. Probably the least annoying way of making it absolutely clear that you're low on health in any Zelda game. Her Rumors and Monster Analysis also were very helpful.

I thought she served more of a purpose than Midna...who didn't really know much about anything.

She's no Ezlo though.

Ezlo was amazing. The Minish cap is one of my favorite games in the series.

 

[itsmeyouidiot]

That's right: I'm claiming that even though you think the game is a flawless masterpiece, that's because you refuse to acknowledge its flaws because you were too excited for it. You played through this game, ran into several things that you normally wouldn't like, but actively ignored them because you didn't want to think that the game you've been anticipating all this time didn't meet your expectations.

Not really, no. I still wouldn't have disliked it for what it is even if it were different. Many of the things that people are quick to point out as flaws aren't really even flaws in my eyes, and that goes for any game.

And really, I could just as easily accuse you of only hating the game because you were too excited to hop on the "mimic Yahtzee" bandwagon. I could just as easily say you genuinely enjoyed the game, but actively ignored everything that made it good because you wanted to hated it like the cool kids down at The Escapist.

Let's be honest here: any game that incorporates the design philosophy of Skyward Sword would have been panned by critics and gamers alike if it weren't so heavily anticipated.

Correction: it would be panned by some critics and gamers, particularly the ones who like to be overly negative about everything.

The game is padded with long, unnecessary, and mandatory fetch quests

I still don't really understand how fetch quests are so bad. If you spent an equivalent amount of time doing something else that didn't fit the arbitrary label "fetch quest," you'd be happy.

there are several gameplay instances that don't advance the plot (including a contrived mine cart sequence ending with a boss you already beat that doesn't amount to anything)

Again, why is this bad? Having more content in a game is suddenly something people don't want?

the art direction is random to the point that it's almost difficult to look at

It's a half-way meeting between the art styles of Twilight Princess and Wind Waker, so what? While I do agree it looks weird at first, it really doesn't do anything to make the game less fun.

we go full circle back to the launch days of the Wii where motion controls are needlessly tacked on in so many aspects of the game

If by "needlessly tacked on," you mean "masterfully executed in a manner that the Wii was supposed to do in the first place," then yes.

you revisit areas that you already beat (including an entire dungeon), you fight three bosses at least twice

I don't see how this could be anything more than an very mild annoyance.

the game is constantly reminding you of things that you already know

People made that same complaint in Ocarina of Time, yet that's widely considered to be the greatest game ever made.

there's only one town in the game and three areas to explore

As opposed to the other games where there are tons of areas to explore but more than half of them are ultimately pointless. Wind Waker was especially bad in this regard, more than 90% of the Great Sea was utterly pointless.

it takes longer to find dungeons than it takes to beat them

Again, you're asking for less content for your money?

and the combat lacks refinement but still punishes you if it doesn't work properly (I want to swing one direction, but it makes me swing in another and I take damage from an enemy).

Okay, let me explain:

Bad controls is not the same as YOU being bad AT the controls.

People who think the motion controls in SS are bad simply don't know how to play. I myself thought the controls were unresponsive, but then, like any sentient creature capable of learning, figured them out.

The mistake most people make is that they try to use the motion controls with their arms, when they are actually done almost entirely with the wrist.

Mistakes are possible, but can almost always be corrected on the second try. What many people mistake for a major flaw is simply a mild inconvenience.

 

[GoldenShadow]

I honestly think that Skyward Sword is the best Zelda game ever made, and Mr. Crosshaw here is basically insulting me for thinking that.

Going "NUH UH THAT WASN'T A FLAW" is as valid an argument as any. A flaw that you fail to notice isn't a flaw. There's a difference between actual flaws that reduce enjoyment and nitpicking "flaws" that you have to actively search for in order to find.

And what exactly is there to miss about the first paragraph, anyway? Of course people are defensive when the best games on the market are attacked instead of the hundreds of thousands of games more deserving of it.

To be honest, I actually pity Yahtzee for being so spoiled that he can't see the game as a masterpiece. It's like he doesn't even know what a bad game is.

I want to say that you're trolling, but I'll respond anyway.

A flaw that you fail to notice doesn't make it any less of a flaw. That's like saying a tree that falls with no one around to hear it doesn't make a sound.

Unlike most fans of this game, I'm assuming, I wasn't hyped for Skyward Sword; I was trying not to be. Last time I was, I felt that Twilight Princess didn't live up to the hype, so I tried to keep my expectations modest so I would enjoy the game more.

All that did was prevent me from glossing over its numerous flaws.

That's right: I'm claiming that even though you think the game is a flawless masterpiece, that's because you refuse to acknowledge its flaws because you were too excited for it. You played through this game, ran into several things that you normally wouldn't like, but actively ignored them because you didn't want to think that the game you've been anticipating all this time didn't meet your expectations.

Let's be honest here: any game that incorporates the design philosophy of Skyward Sword would have been panned by critics and gamers alike if it weren't so heavily anticipated.

The game is padded with long, unnecessary, and mandatory fetch quests, there are several gameplay instances that don't advance the plot (including a contrived mine cart sequence ending with a boss you already beat that doesn't amount to anything), the art direction is random to the point that it's almost difficult to look at, we go full circle back to the launch days of the Wii where motion controls are needlessly tacked on in so many aspects of the game, you revisit areas that you already beat (including an entire dungeon), you fight three bosses at least twice, the game is constantly reminding you of things that you already know, there's only one town in the game and three areas to explore, it takes longer to find dungeons than it takes to beat them, and the combat lacks refinement but still punishes you if it doesn't work properly (I want to swing one direction, but it makes me swing in another and I take damage from an enemy).

And that's not even going into comparing this to other Zelda games: there are fewer towns, fewer dungeons, fewer enemy types, fewer bosses, fewer items, the overall game is smaller, and if it weren't for all the padding, the story probably would have lasted us about six to eight hours.

But wait, there's more: let's remember that Nintendo claimed to work on this game for five years, and they had all the funding brought in by their Wii and DS sales, and they were completely unrestrained due to working on a full DVD while incorporating modest production values with no voice acting.

And you're telling me that this is the 'best Zelda game ever made?' I get that people are entitled to their opinions... but yours is awfully flimsy.

The only part of the whole game that felt unneeded was the flooded forest section where you have to gather tad-tones. It felt really weird that you had to prove your worth to the water dragon again. In my opinion, the rest of the character's motivations for sending link to do their fetching were completely plausible.

 

[Epona]

Yahtzee doesn't like Skyward Sword and all the fanboys come out of the woodwork to redefine what a review is so they can invalidate his opinion (not review, opinion).

You know, it's no wonder the game industry puts out broken, incomplete games. Skyward Sword was both. There WAS a game breaking bug at release AND if most of the game is padding, I would call that incomplete.

Consider this. The reason Phantom Hourglass had to have small dungeons and you had to return to the Ocean King place multiple time was because of hardware restrictions. Those hardware restrictions aren't present on the Wii and on DVD discs. Why then was this game in development for so long but has LESS content than previous games? Of course, even when they cut corners people defend them.

This game looks bad on a 1080p television. If they didn't fill the DVD with graphics, why not fill it with content?

 

[Howling Din]

Indeed, F*** you, Skyward Sword. I'm a fan of the series, but not a zealot. My love for it is not unconditional. Nor can I love it in slices. The bad of Skyward Sword far outweighed the good.

 

[reachforthesky]

The Escapist really baffles me some times. I can't count how many of Yahtzee's videos or articles contain some sort of dig at what the fanboys will say in response. They are always fat and nerdy and spewing frothy liquids from their mounths, and are of course, retarted. Then I read the comments and everyone is having a big fun wank over how the fanboys will be getting out their pitchforks and torches and how dumb and aggressive they are. Then I thumb through the pages and find almost no defense for whatever game Yahtzee insulted this time, and certainly nobody mentioning the arguments he pointed out. Oh sure, there is the occasional "well-I-kind-of-disagree-but-I-would-never-go-against-the-great-Yahtzee" meek little wimper but certainly none of the violent half-literate garbage You guys claim to have to constantly defend yourself from. Do I have some kind of filter turned on that I don't see the repetitive raging nutjob posts everyone always talks about? I know it's hip to act persecuted but you aren't fooling anybody.

unrelated note: Occupy Wall Street will never accomplish anything because everything bout it, from their grievances to their demands, are so vague that nobody knows what to do(i.e. exactly the kind of result you should expect when a bunch of leaderless hippies with nothing better to do try to accomplish anything.)

 

[Mirrorknight]

Well...Nintendo can't win. If they don't put just enough new into one of their games (for example, Mario Sunshine), they get bashed for not being original. However, if they go to far the other way and change the game too much, even just graphic wise (for example, Majora's Mask or Wind Waker) they get bashed by the same number of people (sometimes the same people) for changing it too much.

So in order to make the most amount of people happy, they're forced to just make incremental changes to their games. Of course, you'll still have people that will ***** about it, but you can't make everyone happy.

Yes, sometimes they can make a radical change and actually have people be on board for it (Metroid Prime. A 3-D Metroid game?! Scandalous. But Retro got it to work.) but it has to do everything right that it needs to do in order for people to like it. What happens when it doesn't? You get the state the current Final Fantasy games are in now.

Frankly, I liked the game. It told a decent story. Zelda wasn't totally emotionaless this time around, as Yhatzee pointed out. While she wasn't as awesome as Tetra/Zelda, she had some charm. Hell, she was even kinda flirty, even if it was in a "I'm just teasing, I'm actually going to push you off a cliff" kind of way.

As far as motion controls...pfft. If you can't get past the electric swords, you must be whipping that remote around like an over-zealous flag waver. It really isn't hard to fake out the bokoblins out. Yes, yes. You hate motion controls, I get it. I'm no fan either. I'm glad that it appears that it's going to die out with this generation of games. It wasn't a deal breaker for me though. Besides, you get one good hit in, and you just alternate slashing directions, and they can't block. Not. Hard. I understand disliking motion controls, but Yahtzee's hatred for it is almost as irrational as my hatred for Will Farrel, may he burn in a thousand hells. Pretty much any Wii game he reviews is going to have a strike against it without even really doing anything but have the misfortune of being on the Wii.

Now, I agree that their wasn't enough to the sky area. I defiantly would've like more of a reason to go riding around on my bird. However, I wouldn't want to have it like Wind Waker. I only have two gripes about that game. One of which is the stupid amount of time it takes to get anywhere. Yes, I know that's kind of the point, to have it be a vast sea. The problem? Sailing on a vast sea is frigging BORING. I would have liked to have the sky area be expansive like Wind Waker, but way more engaging. Instead, we got small and somehow less engaging.

Mostly total agreement on Fi, though. I tried to be sad when she got sealed, but all I could think of was good riddance. Still would have to say Navi is still slightly more annoying, though. Fi just beeps when she wants something. Which is much better then HEY LISTEN! HEY LISTEN! HEY LISTEN! HELLO? HEY LISTEN! ... I miss Midna. Or, hell, I'll take Tatl at this point.

Also enjoyed that the game is actually hard in points. Sure, it's no Link to the Past, but I actually saw the game over screen normally! Pretty much every Zelda since Ocarina, I had to PURPOSELY die to see it. This one, I actually died a few times. Some of dungeons were actually a bit tricky (screw you Goddess keep. Seriously). This makes me happy. (and no, it wasn't because I fighting the motion controls).

It's a solid Zelda game. I liked it. Nothing I say is going to change Yahtzee's mind, and nothing I say is going to change his. Is it the bestest Zelda game evers? Hell no. I still give that to Link to the Past, and it's going take an awful lot for a new Zelda game to even come close to that lofty perch.

 

[DarthFennec]

I agree with you on most of this, but I don't really see how you figure this game is the worst Zelda game ever. It's certainly not worse than Twilight Princess, and it's not anywhere near as terrible as Phantom Hourglass. I think Skyward Sword is definitely one of the better Zelda games out there, right behind Wind Waker and Majora's Mask.

Yeah, the stupid supporting character got on my nerves like hell but so did Navi and I still consider Ocarina of Time to be one of the best games ever. Yeah there was a lot of stupid pointless padding, but every time I noticed any of it my reaction wasn't `oh my god not more of this shit', but rather `oh my god this padding is so much less ridiculously annoying and pointless than that of Okamiden'. Yeah it got annoying when I had to go back to the fucking sky every time I wanted to get to another part of the map, but it's not as if it felt small ... to me, the world felt enormous, so enormous in fact that they had to split it up into three separate regions. There was quite a lot of exploration involved, and there was certainly an open world element to it, even if it was partially restricted by the three sections thing. At least there are only three, rather than about fifty like in Wind Waker.

Also, I thought the motion controls in this game were some of the best I've seen on the Wii. While it does get rather annoying when it doesn't register a swing until a split second too late and you get fucking electrocuted over and over, and I have to spend five minutes trying to hold it at precisely the right angle of `straight up' so that the game will recognize that I'm trying to charge a Skyward Strike, the controls were still very fluid for the most part, and I enjoyed the challenge that came with calculating the correct angle to swing at that you just don't get when sitting there mashing the B button as fast as you can. Flying felt great, as did controlling the beetle, and the sword motions were pretty good as well; I was surprised at the very small handful of times where it did something I didn't really want it to do. The only thing I didn't care for was swimming, if only because you had to switch from one control scheme to another without any real reason for it, and I found myself trying to swim with the stick and wondering why it wasn't responding in the way it was supposed to.

As for the dungeons, I personally adored all of them that used the timeshift stone mechanic, especially the pirate ship, and I also loved the final dungeon on Skyloft, but all the rest of them weren't half bad, not any worse than any of the Ocarina of Time dungeons. The whip was actually used in quite a few places, as it was basically exactly the same thing as the grappling hook from Wind Waker and I was surprised they didn't just call it that. It was nowhere near as phoned in as that stupid gear thing from Twilight Princess. And the Beetle was just so damn useful that it almost made up for any imperfections with any of the other items.

Other than that, it had a lot of great sidequests and side characters, which was my favorite thing about Majora's Mask and I was ecstatic to see that they did just as good a job of it here. I liked the item upgrade system, I liked the running and climbing, I liked that they brought back the bug net, I liked the item simplification (that you can pick up bombs from bomb flowers or bombs you've already set and store them in your bag, enemy arrows, etc), I liked the silent realms a whole lot, it was just a really well put together game I thought. There are definitely things wrong with it (namely, everything you stated), but to me those things weren't really a dealbreaker, or rather, they weren't very important or worth mentioning at all for that matter. Small problems that don't really get in the way of an otherwise wonderful experience.