Skyward Sword
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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I do agree with some of your points Yahtzee.
By the time I started doing the Song of the Hero questline, I felt the game was padding itself out quite a bit. Also I did kind of wish there were more places to go to in the Sky.
As for Fi, I actually didn't mind her. The only thing I disliked about her was that compared to the other companions in Zelda games, she didn't really have much of a personality. She was basically an emotionless robot.
If given the choice I would have one of the Kikwis as my sidekick instead of her. I like those little guys.
Still though, her farewell scene moved me a little bit.
Finally, the motion controls. Yes, there are some instances where sometimes the game wouldn't register your movements correctly, but for the most part I didn't have any trouble with them. In fact, as I've stated previously, they sort of made me think that perhaps if worked on a bit more, motion controls could have a future in gaming.
So overall, I really liked Skyward Sword. It's pretty much my game of the year.
By the time I started doing the Song of the Hero questline, I felt the game was padding itself out quite a bit. Also I did kind of wish there were more places to go to in the Sky.
As for Fi, I actually didn't mind her. The only thing I disliked about her was that compared to the other companions in Zelda games, she didn't really have much of a personality. She was basically an emotionless robot.
If given the choice I would have one of the Kikwis as my sidekick instead of her. I like those little guys.
Still though, her farewell scene moved me a little bit.
Finally, the motion controls. Yes, there are some instances where sometimes the game wouldn't register your movements correctly, but for the most part I didn't have any trouble with them. In fact, as I've stated previously, they sort of made me think that perhaps if worked on a bit more, motion controls could have a future in gaming.
So overall, I really liked Skyward Sword. It's pretty much my game of the year.
About Yahtzee's complaints on motion controls: The main problem is not the concept itself. The problem is that there have not been many good games involving them to justify further use in many gamers' eyes. Skyward Sword should have been a flagship title that showed the potential of motion controls. Instead, it's released at the tail end of the Wii's lifespan.
Other points Yahtzee mentioned:
1. Just completed the second dungeon and the controls haven't been too much of a problem for me, at least for now.
2. Not too many problems with backtracking, though I wouldn't be surprised to encounter them sometime after the third dungeon.
3. I can see what Nintendo was trying to do with Fi's character, however, I can't say I'm impressed. I don't hate her, but I highly doubt I'll put her in my list of best Zelda side characters.
Other points Yahtzee mentioned:
1. Just completed the second dungeon and the controls haven't been too much of a problem for me, at least for now.
2. Not too many problems with backtracking, though I wouldn't be surprised to encounter them sometime after the third dungeon.
3. I can see what Nintendo was trying to do with Fi's character, however, I can't say I'm impressed. I don't hate her, but I highly doubt I'll put her in my list of best Zelda side characters.
My major problem with Skyward Sword is that there's basically one town in the whole game. Sure there's populations of various things in each of the zones but there's little in the overall game to build context. In games like Wind Waker or Ocarina of Time, it really felt like I was trying to save all of Hyrule because as I played I got to KNOW all of Hyrule. There were so many towns and characters scattered about that it was hard not to take in the personality of each region.
But what am I fighting for in Skyward Sword? One small fucking town in the fucking sky, and some random dudes just floating around on rocks, and a bunch of creatures that don't seem to give a damn whether or not I even exist let alone if I'm helping them out. Oh and I guess Zelda too, but she got about the bare minimum of characterization before she was whisked away by a monster.
I guess what I'm saying is that on the context scale, I'd rade Skyward Sword pretty low. It's like link is just going around and doing one thing after another because there's really nothing else to do. It's the same problem I had with Alice: Madness Returns which felt like the middle portion of any God of War game, only stretched to the length of an entire game. Like I'm sort of tossed into this world that just doesn't give a fuck.
But what am I fighting for in Skyward Sword? One small fucking town in the fucking sky, and some random dudes just floating around on rocks, and a bunch of creatures that don't seem to give a damn whether or not I even exist let alone if I'm helping them out. Oh and I guess Zelda too, but she got about the bare minimum of characterization before she was whisked away by a monster.
I guess what I'm saying is that on the context scale, I'd rade Skyward Sword pretty low. It's like link is just going around and doing one thing after another because there's really nothing else to do. It's the same problem I had with Alice: Madness Returns which felt like the middle portion of any God of War game, only stretched to the length of an entire game. Like I'm sort of tossed into this world that just doesn't give a fuck.
Mother of god, do you even know what a fanboy is and how you might come off as one in every single one of your posts in this thread?itsmeyouidiot said:
You act like by criticizing your preferred piece of entertainment, let me repeat that, your preferred piece of entertainment, we're kicking your dog and harming a beloved family member.
I mean, did you really miss where the beginning of this article pretty much directly addressed people like you?
"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" was something used to keep five year olds from fighting. As far as real world application, it's up there with people saying you can't criticize an athlete because "you couldn't do that". Christ, without critics and criticism, nothing would ever advance.
Or should we always be 100% happy with everything all the time? If he found to be lackluster, he has a column in which he is paid to voice his opinion and name the reasons. All you've done is go "NUH UH THAT WASN'T A FLAW! IT'S A GREAT GAME!"
A masterful defense.
Cool straw man, bro.itsmeyouidiot said:
Anyway. I'm a Zelda fan and I really enjoyed this game, but Yahtzee's right. The game has a lot of flaws. Here's the thing, though: the flaws in this game aren't so much an indication of how far the series has fallen, but how the industry has fallen.
I'm just going to come out and say it: I don't think Nintendo has any idea what they're doing anymore. They have some idea about what's fun, but I don't think they really know why those things are fun in the first place. To a certain extent, I think this is applicable to every other major Nintendo franchise (particularly Pokemon), but it is very evident in Zelda.
What I'm saying is this: because of the exponential growth of the games industry and the amount of money that is at stake each time a big-name game is released, developers are now forced to make games that they think we would like to play, as opposed to games that they would like to play.
So, we end up with a game that, in order to be considered part of the series, copies wholesale the staples of said series. Then, in order to put to rest the complaints of "sameyness," we take the major gimmicks of the console and dial them up to 11, so there can be no question that this game is different and new. To stifle the complaints of thin gameplay based on gimmickry, we guarantee that there will be hours of fun by making the players backtrack all over the same area, instead of just making a larger, more extensive world.
I know this is mostly just speculation, but I think that if Skyward Sword had been the next Zelda game after Ocarina of Time, it probably would have flopped pretty badly. But here's the thing: in a world where Modern Warfare has, for all intents and purposes, become the face of gaming, people like me, who never enjoyed Call of Duty, will CLING to games like Skyward Sword because, at the end of the day, shit Zelda is better than no Zelda.
All-in-all, I've got mixed feelings about this. I don't think that the game should get a pass for all of its mistakes, but I don't think that it should carry all of the blame, either.
I will now prove you wrong, Yahtzee.
I loved Skyward Sword and none of your complaints about the game proved detrimental to the fun and enjoyment I derived from the game.
And, gasp of gasps, my opinion is just as equally valid as yours is. Not saying you're wrong, or I'm right, but many of the flaws of the game I either felt were so insignificant as to be nothing more than nitpicks or I felt were mechanics that I felt I enjoyed.
You criticize the motion controls? I love them. You criticize the art style? I love it. You criticize the characters and story? I found both fantastic. I felt the world, while not quite as diverse as, say, Koholint Island, was still bristling with stuff to do, games to play, treasures to find, enemies to battle, puzzles to solve, terrain to navigate, items to use, secrets to discover, and much, much more.
You criticize the "sameyness" of Zelda, and I attest that Skyward Sword is more fresh than Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Halo, Saints Row the Third, Uncharted 3, Gears of War 3, and so many others, even Skyrim. You say it doesn't change, yet I see a game with a totally new control scheme with motion-control that no other game, not just Zelda games, remotely has that's similar. I see a new world, with new characters, a new story, with new puzzles, dungeons, enemies, items, music, overworld layout, mini-games, bosses, RPG mechanics, a stamina meter, more robust item upgrading, a flying mount, a new save system, and even a totally fresh new final boss. Even the ART STYLE (whether you like it or not) is totally new to the series and extremely unique amongst games in general.
I fail to see how you can claim the game is still so similar when it's by far more fresh, original, and different compared to nearly every other game franchise and their sequels on the market.
I loved Skyward Sword and none of your complaints about the game proved detrimental to the fun and enjoyment I derived from the game.
And, gasp of gasps, my opinion is just as equally valid as yours is. Not saying you're wrong, or I'm right, but many of the flaws of the game I either felt were so insignificant as to be nothing more than nitpicks or I felt were mechanics that I felt I enjoyed.
You criticize the motion controls? I love them. You criticize the art style? I love it. You criticize the characters and story? I found both fantastic. I felt the world, while not quite as diverse as, say, Koholint Island, was still bristling with stuff to do, games to play, treasures to find, enemies to battle, puzzles to solve, terrain to navigate, items to use, secrets to discover, and much, much more.
You criticize the "sameyness" of Zelda, and I attest that Skyward Sword is more fresh than Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Halo, Saints Row the Third, Uncharted 3, Gears of War 3, and so many others, even Skyrim. You say it doesn't change, yet I see a game with a totally new control scheme with motion-control that no other game, not just Zelda games, remotely has that's similar. I see a new world, with new characters, a new story, with new puzzles, dungeons, enemies, items, music, overworld layout, mini-games, bosses, RPG mechanics, a stamina meter, more robust item upgrading, a flying mount, a new save system, and even a totally fresh new final boss. Even the ART STYLE (whether you like it or not) is totally new to the series and extremely unique amongst games in general.
I fail to see how you can claim the game is still so similar when it's by far more fresh, original, and different compared to nearly every other game franchise and their sequels on the market.
I agree, I think Skyward Sword is padded to shit and basically any time spent in a Questing Area you've already visited feels like a total waste of time every time they do it. Plus I couldn't help but feel like the world at large felt simple and basic. I mean basically all 4 races' main issue is "There are bad guys over there! We live here so we don't like that." I mean compare that to my favorite game of the series, Majora's Mask. In that Clock Town's Residents were freaking out because the fucking moon was falling, the Swamps' waters were poisons and the Dekus were torturing a monkey to find out why, the Gorons of the mountain were freezing to death due to a never-ending winter, and in the canyon all the dead had risen. In that everyone was in Crisis Mode, which made is super fun to discover their problem and, ultimately over the course of some adventuring, work out how to lift their curses.
To me, that's really what I want from a Zelda game. I want to discover a world in crisis and vanquish foes to end the crisis. Majora's Mask was of course better suited to do this than any other because, due to the fact the world would always reset when you traveled back to day 1, saving the day could have serious ramifications without making side quests undoable in the process.
I will say though, overall, I liked Skyward Sword and though it was terribly padded, the world sort of fizzled out, and it really delivered some major let downs (I was hoping Gaebora would sacrifice himself early on and reincarnate as the owl later in the game. Instead he did nothing the entire game. Also there's the fact there's a huge missed opportunity in that you never get to explore a certain somewhere I won't spoil. It's only in the game for plot purposes and a final boss fight, which was really shitty.) I still thought the dungeons were really something and most of the stuff that wasn't revisiting was pretty fun, especially the desert.
To me, that's really what I want from a Zelda game. I want to discover a world in crisis and vanquish foes to end the crisis. Majora's Mask was of course better suited to do this than any other because, due to the fact the world would always reset when you traveled back to day 1, saving the day could have serious ramifications without making side quests undoable in the process.
I will say though, overall, I liked Skyward Sword and though it was terribly padded, the world sort of fizzled out, and it really delivered some major let downs (I was hoping Gaebora would sacrifice himself early on and reincarnate as the owl later in the game. Instead he did nothing the entire game. Also there's the fact there's a huge missed opportunity in that you never get to explore a certain somewhere I won't spoil. It's only in the game for plot purposes and a final boss fight, which was really shitty.) I still thought the dungeons were really something and most of the stuff that wasn't revisiting was pretty fun, especially the desert.
Again, I think the motion control lag could be because of his tv. In my experience, some newer tvs can't play video games well because of input lag or something. Others know more then me about this.
And again, I agree that Fi is more annoying then Navi and that the bad guys weren't very effectual. The good guys are so slow in being emotional that I, in my genre-savy jadedness, expected Ghirahim to suddenly appear or for something bad to happen. But nothing happened. (Maybe the writers were messing with tropes)
And again, I agree that Fi is more annoying then Navi and that the bad guys weren't very effectual. The good guys are so slow in being emotional that I, in my genre-savy jadedness, expected Ghirahim to suddenly appear or for something bad to happen. But nothing happened. (Maybe the writers were messing with tropes)
This is the Extra Punctuation that seems to have finally answered for me the question of whether Yahtzee reads (some) of the forum responses on his Zero Punctuation videos...because that thread ended up especially vitriolic and this now seems to be largely a response to some of it.
Yahtzee resorting to middle school antics with "if I don't gush it with praise, zelda's fanboy army will attack me" is really fucking pathetic. Use your brain for a minute. People aren't mad because you "pointed out a flaw" but because it's actually horseshit that isn't really a flaw, one you contrive or one you don't explain. You've been doing this for how long and you can't accept criticism yourself?
It seems almost like Nintendo asked themselves what fans liked about Ocarina, and could only come up with "annoying sidekick", so did that again. Just like Sega adding more characters to Sonic because, apparently, they felt that Tails was the only reason people played those games.SupahGamuh said:
Wait; so you proved his subjective opinion wrong by replacing it with your own subjective opinion? ...Seriously; that is your big defence, your big comeback to the mean critic bashing your game? Come up with something better please, subjectivity is not 'proven wrong' by more subjectivity.Trishbot said:
Jesus F. Mothering Christ. IT'S A GAME!itsmeyouidiot said:
He had an opinion on a videogame which you disagree with and you act like he went over to your house, blasphemed your religion, insulted your mother told you you smell and insinuated that all your ancestors were all murderers, conmen and rapists.
"Everything you hold dear" is some Zelda game? What the hell is wrong with, you know, people these days? Damn...itsmeyouidiot said:
Stop being such big crybabies and learn to respect the opinion of someone else who has actually played "your" game and is pointing out why they did not enjoy it. People are so spoiled, honestly.
I wholeheartedly disagree... Most of my 30 hours of gameplay involved main story quests which did indeed feel like padding for the most part. I enjoyed the individual dungeons, but the overworld left much to be desired. I finished every sidequest and got every item... For the first time in any Zelda game ever. I even checked online. Yup, got them all. Unbelievable. But hey, if you like the smallest and simplest Zelda game since Ocarina of Time, whatevs.Trishbot said:
No one's arguing there.
I'd argue if it was just AC1 and AC2, but Brotherhood felt like a sidestep (aside from the brilliant multiplayer). Haven't played Revelations.[/quote]
Now hold on, just because you don't like a franchise doesn't mean you can just go kicking it around. Bungie consistently made renovations to the gameplay and game structure from game to game, leaving us with one of the best Matchmaking systems gaming has ever seen (not to mention the daily challenges, which are fun to complete with a friend).
The hell...
I didn't play it, but Yahtzee did indeed complain about this game.
I didn't like the first, and I haven't heard anything amazing about the other two.
Yes...
Now hold the fucking phone. Skyrim has a lot of faults with it. I'm 14 hours in and already I've laughed at some of its bugs. What absolutely no one can say about Elder Scrolls is that it is samey. It makes massive leaps and bounds between each game while keeping the core mechanics and designs intact. Skyrim itself is by far one of the most diverse playgrounds ever. Already I have dozens of dungeons I've yet to explore because I'm still a fairly low level, but just today I helped a crew of bandits take down a duo of giants, and you should have seen those bandits go flying through the air when they were hit with a giant's club. After pillaging the corpses, I discovered a Dwemer ruin full of mechanical spiders and ruined machinery, none of which having any explanation or context that I could find. Next, I came upon a slumbering dragon atop a giant wall covered in Dragon's Language, and a ghostly priest burst forth and started pelting me with fireballs while the dragon took flight and sprayed me with ice. My reward for killing the dragon was not just loot, but an ability that lets me throw my voice to cause distractions. I can now play Skyrim like I used to play Thief or Metal Gear Solid. If nothing else, Skyrim is a diverse world with endless exploring and looting fun. Whether or not you like it is up to you, but don't deny what it actually is.
Actually, you can't really call it samey. Never before has a Zelda game been so closed and obnoxious. There is only one town with only one shopping district. There are only three surface worlds which you have to return to and retrace your steps through over and over and over again. The only interesting part of any of this is when the volcano erupts and when the forest gets flooded (although THAT particular part involves a shitload of underwater swimming which is just excruciating).
And how can you even enjoy the story? The ending is limp and unsatisfying. You develop a slight hatred towards Ghirahim over his many battles, only to defeat him in an extremely short and easy bossfight. Then when the true boss is unveiled, not only is it not the Ganon we've grown to love and hate, but it's some douchenozzle we've never even seen before. We go from wanting to save our childhood friend, Zelda, to having to duke it out with this guy who we haven't even seen do anything of consequence. He just pops out of the ground, tells us how cool he is, then offers us the easiest bossfight in the history of Zelda. And that's it! He just offers it! Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess had castles to climb, Windwaker had a temple frozen in time full of enemies ready to pounce on you... Skyward Sword just had this Soul Calibur-looking fella sitting around on another plane of existence waiting for you to accept an open invitation to get your ass kicked... BEFORE IT HAS EVEN BEEN EXPRESSED THAT HE COULD KICK YOUR ASS BY ANYTHING OTHER THAN HIS OWN ENDLESS SHIT-TALKING. So yeah, Skyward Sword has been a tremendous letdown and marks a true decline in the Zelda series. I doubt I will buy the next one so hastily.