Childe said:
The problem is that the examples you give aren't really effective.
Utter conjecture, please cite your sources.
Spanking isn't an effective disciplinary method, the ONLY positive effect of spanking is immediate compliance, meaning that the child will stop whatever bad thing it is doing at that exact moment. Spanking has been consistently shown to lead to INCREASES in all kinds of anti-social behavior; aggression, lying, bullying, etc.
Childe said:
More often then not the kids will whine and complain and cry and the parents will give in, which just lets the kids know that they can do whatever they want and there parents won't do anything. Now obviously this isn't true for everyone but its something that i have seen a lot.
Non-argument.
The fact that some parents are too lazy to do actual parenting is not an argument in favor of spanking. Spanking can't even be described as taking the easy way out of parenting, because it accomplishes the exact opposite of what parenting is meant to accomplish.
"Parenting" does not mean "Make the kid stop whining so I can concentrate on my day-time soaps."
Childe said:
however spanking is, in all honestly, really really minor
Except it's really really not.
Childe said:
Now i believe everyone will agree that the parents role is to bring up there children to be functional members of society.
I would agree
Which would mean that spanking is DIRECTLY counterproductive to the role of being a parent, since spanking has been shown to increase aggression, worsen behavioral problems and put children at larger risk of delinquency, substance abuse, lowered academic achievement, worsened psychological health and a number of other things that directly prevent them from becoming functional members of society.
Childe said:
frankly children are tougher then we give them credit for, i mean we are fine with children playing rough sports and hurting themselves playing them but we claim child abuse over a little spanking?
Completely false equivalence.
Childe said:
The bottom line for me is, how far is to far for a parent to go in fulling their duty as a parent, and considering that, I don't think spanking is too far or other mild, no long lasting or permanent physical effects, physical punishment.
And the bottom line for me is reality, as extensive study has found.
Fact: 20 recent studies have found that corporal punishment of children is associated with an increased probability of mental health problems.
Fact: 12 recent studies have found that corporal punishment of children is associated with a higher probability of delinquent and anti-social behavior.
Fact: No study done in the last 60 years have been able to associate spanking with ANY beneficial traits or behaviors, beyond immediate compliance in the moment.
Fact: There is nearly universal agreement within the field of developmental psychology that spanking is entirely negative in it's impact upon children, this despite the psychological community rarely being able to achieve consensus on much of anything.
Fact: Anecdotes and 'Just-So' ho-humming is a worthless perspective from which to actually analyze reality.
This isn't a "discussion" and there is no "controversy" there is as much agreement among the relevant scientists that spanking is harmful as there is agreement that global warming is real among the relevant scientists of that field.
Sources:
This video presents all the data I'm talking about in an easily digestible format: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONNRfflggBg
Studies and other academic sources are in a link in the video description.
Also relevant; here is an interview with a developmental psychologist who has performed a meta-study of all studies done on the effects of spanking over the past 64 years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kFBOeqZbjs her conclusion is that all current evidence points towards spanking having an immensely negative impact upon virtually all aspects of the spanked children's lives.