Smacking Your Child.

[Childe]

Totally unnecessary in my eyes. It isn't legal here to smack an adult, or even a pet dog, so why should it be legal to do so to a small child? What people need to remember is that absence of smacking doesn't have to be an absence of discipline, taking away privileges is just as effective a deterrent and doesn't teach a child that it's okay to be violent towards a small being dependent on you. Social studies are always contentious of course but the evidence seems to suggest that even after controlling for confounding factors such as natural aggression and socio-economic background, smacked children are more likely to become aggressive as they grow older than those disciplined in other ways. [footnote]http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1983895,00.html[/footnote]

The problem is that the examples you give aren't really effective. More often then not the kids will whine and complain and cry and the parents will give in, which just lets the kids know that they can do whatever they want and there parents won't do anything. Now obviously this isn't true for everyone but its something that i have seen a lot. Physical punishment doesn't necessarily work any better, and I'm completely against actually beating your kid, however spanking is, in all honestly, really really minor; unless of course you go overboard, which is also happens. They key issue here is what the role of a parent is and what tools they have to accomplish those goals. Now i believe everyone will agree that the parents role is to bring up there children to be functional members of society. When people break rules in society they get punished (hopefully) because we can't let people think that they can do whatever they want, whenever they want; there would be anarchy and life would be even worse then it is now (probably). In the same manner the family unit functions in the same manner as a nation; the parents make rules [hopefully[ geared towards protecting there children, promoting peace and happiness in the family, etc., and when those children act out against those rules, there needs to be consequences; ones that actually have the children learn a lesson. If there is a children continually acting out, disobeying and not responding to having his phone taken away, or being grounded, then the parents should have the right be able to shift to a different form of punishment. Not torture or whipping or breaking the kids bones or other awful things like that, but there needs to be different avenues of approach that parents can have to discipline their children so that they do become functional, productive members of society. and frankly children are tougher then we give them credit for, i mean we are fine with children playing rough sports and hurting themselves playing them but we claim child abuse over a little spanking? The bottom line for me is, how far is to far for a parent to go in fulling their duty as a parent, and considering that, I don't think spanking is too far or other mild, no long lasting or permanent physical effects, physical punishment.

 

[WarpedMind]

The problem is that the examples you give aren't really effective.

Utter conjecture, please cite your sources.

Spanking isn't an effective disciplinary method, the ONLY positive effect of spanking is immediate compliance, meaning that the child will stop whatever bad thing it is doing at that exact moment. Spanking has been consistently shown to lead to INCREASES in all kinds of anti-social behavior; aggression, lying, bullying, etc.

More often then not the kids will whine and complain and cry and the parents will give in, which just lets the kids know that they can do whatever they want and there parents won't do anything. Now obviously this isn't true for everyone but its something that i have seen a lot.

Non-argument.

The fact that some parents are too lazy to do actual parenting is not an argument in favor of spanking. Spanking can't even be described as taking the easy way out of parenting, because it accomplishes the exact opposite of what parenting is meant to accomplish.
"Parenting" does not mean "Make the kid stop whining so I can concentrate on my day-time soaps."

however spanking is, in all honestly, really really minor

Except it's really really not.

Now i believe everyone will agree that the parents role is to bring up there children to be functional members of society.

I would agree

Which would mean that spanking is DIRECTLY counterproductive to the role of being a parent, since spanking has been shown to increase aggression, worsen behavioral problems and put children at larger risk of delinquency, substance abuse, lowered academic achievement, worsened psychological health and a number of other things that directly prevent them from becoming functional members of society.

frankly children are tougher then we give them credit for, i mean we are fine with children playing rough sports and hurting themselves playing them but we claim child abuse over a little spanking?

Completely false equivalence.

The bottom line for me is, how far is to far for a parent to go in fulling their duty as a parent, and considering that, I don't think spanking is too far or other mild, no long lasting or permanent physical effects, physical punishment.

And the bottom line for me is reality, as extensive study has found.

Fact: 20 recent studies have found that corporal punishment of children is associated with an increased probability of mental health problems.
Fact: 12 recent studies have found that corporal punishment of children is associated with a higher probability of delinquent and anti-social behavior.
Fact: No study done in the last 60 years have been able to associate spanking with ANY beneficial traits or behaviors, beyond immediate compliance in the moment.
Fact: There is nearly universal agreement within the field of developmental psychology that spanking is entirely negative in it's impact upon children, this despite the psychological community rarely being able to achieve consensus on much of anything.
Fact: Anecdotes and 'Just-So' ho-humming is a worthless perspective from which to actually analyze reality.

This isn't a "discussion" and there is no "controversy" there is as much agreement among the relevant scientists that spanking is harmful as there is agreement that global warming is real among the relevant scientists of that field.

Sources:
This video presents all the data I'm talking about in an easily digestible format: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONNRfflggBg
Studies and other academic sources are in a link in the video description.
Also relevant; here is an interview with a developmental psychologist who has performed a meta-study of all studies done on the effects of spanking over the past 64 years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kFBOeqZbjs her conclusion is that all current evidence points towards spanking having an immensely negative impact upon virtually all aspects of the spanked children's lives.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

I was smacked as a kid because being sent to my room did nothing for me since I, stupidly, mentioned that it didn't feel like punishment. So, I got belted on the ass when I did something that was over the line. I was never publicly disciplined since that was reserved for home and I knew better than to act out in public. I was smacked across the head with a wooden spoon by my mom while she was making spaghetti. It was kinda funny since she hit the pot to clear the sauce from the spoon, smacked me upside the head, and then calmly went back to stirring the sauce like it never happened.

Would I ever do that to my hypothetical kid? No. I don't feel comfortable doing that and I don't think my kid will need it since giving them a death stare and taking their shit away will get the point across.

 

[Andy Shandy]

Misread this as smoking your child. Now my imagination has gone in ways not relevant to the thread at hand...singing too loudly in the car?

420BLAZETHEBABY

...

Uh, anyway, no I wouldn't smack my hypothetical child.

Besides the parent venting their frustration I can't think of any benefit, and if your best way of venting is hitting your own flesh and blood then I think there may be other issues at play.

 

[Worgen]

Really all hitting a kid does is make you feel better. Because who doesn't want to hit a kid?

 

[Redryhno]

Really all hitting a kid does is make you feel better. Because who doesn't want to hit a kid?

I've always been in the "shoot 'em or run the fuck away" camp myself. Absolutely terrified of kids, to the point I start thinking about looking for a new place to shop when I see one.

I could've been a REALLY fucking annoying kid, but you learn when you're held down for an hour that you probably shouldn't be acting that way, gets in the way of your own fun. So yeah, I'm all for smacking a kid, I'm all for smacking an adult when they're being pricks as well. Gets 'em ready for when the schoolyard comes into play too(which it will, for everyone at some point there was that one asshole that wouldn't leave you alone).

I mean, what is the alternative, constantly negotiate with a screaming brat? Letting them get their way every time? Allow them to cry themselves out? Sorry, but if they're going to cry, I'm either going to help them cut peppers without gloves and not tell them to rinse their hands, or do something for them to realize that doing that for no good reason is a detriment to them in some form. Whether that's pulling their ears, hitting their butts with a light cutting board, or just tying them to their beds and telling them they'd better get acquainted with their imaginations, because I'm not going to be talking to them while I sit in the corner for an hour with earplugs in.

Edit: reading this again, it wasn't clear that I was joking on most of this, but my basic feelings I think are plain.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

I wouldn't say it's the best deterrent. I got spanked when I was a kid at times, and sometimes had a bar of soap ran over my tongue. Not the most fun. It wasn't often, but when I was being an absolute shit, it happened. Like some have mentioned though, it's how these punishments came across. My dad would be red faced most of the time. He wasn't an angry man. I was just a pain in the ass sometimes. It did deter me a little, but not enough. And when I got into trouble, all it did was make me feel terrified about going to my parents with anything. It's why I went to my mother more often than my father. She took things a bit more calmly. Needless to say, it made me a little scared of my father until I was maybe 14-15 or so.

I have a memory of one time I back talked my father once, cause I was mad, and so was he. He yelled at me to sit down, and I started getting upset. My mom was there too. She saw him grabbing a belt from his closet. She grasped onto him, crying and pleading not to take it that far. That memory isn't going away any time soon. That really cemented my fear of going to him for anything bad I did. I sometimes pleaded dearly, crying and panicking to my mother not to tell him what I did wrong.

It wasn't a good thing for me. I do have a few social issues as well via a minor disability, so it didn't help me in understanding the punishment. It just made me scared. I turned out good in the end though, and me and my dad are really, really close. I know he didn't do it to hurt me. I just sometimes wish it was handled a little more calmly, so I didn't have to sit in my room scared bout him learning anything bad I did. Love him to hell and back, though.

 

[Iwata]

I got smacked once in my entire life by my mother, and I totally had it coming.

I have never smacked my daughter and never came across a situation where I figured it'd be needed.

There's plenty of ways to educate your child that don't involve physical violence. If it gets to that point, it means that you failed as a parent somewhere along the way.

 

[Worgen]

Really all hitting a kid does is make you feel better. Because who doesn't want to hit a kid?

I've always been in the "shoot 'em or run the fuck away" camp myself. Absolutely terrified of kids, to the point I start thinking about looking for a new place to shop when I see one.

I could've been a REALLY fucking annoying kid, but you learn when you're held down for an hour that you probably shouldn't be acting that way, gets in the way of your own fun. So yeah, I'm all for smacking a kid, I'm all for smacking an adult when they're being pricks as well. Gets 'em ready for when the schoolyard comes into play too(which it will, for everyone at some point there was that one asshole that wouldn't leave you alone).

I mean, what is the alternative, constantly negotiate with a screaming brat? Letting them get their way every time? Allow them to cry themselves out? Sorry, but if they're going to cry, I'm either going to help them cut peppers without gloves and not tell them to rinse their hands, or do something for them to realize that doing that for no good reason is a detriment to them in some form. Whether that's pulling their ears, hitting their butts with a light cutting board, or just tying them to their beds and telling them they'd better get acquainted with their imaginations, because I'm not going to be talking to them while I sit in the corner for an hour with earplugs in.

Edit: reading this again, it wasn't clear that I was joking on most of this, but my basic feelings I think are plain.

Hitting will have an effect once or twice, maybe. But more than that and your just showing the kid the limit and teaching them that its not only alright to hit those smaller than them, but feels good too. Still though, even "having" to do it once means somethings gone wrong, you've already fucked something up.

 

[kitsunefather]

I don't smack my son, but I do occasionally playfully swat him in the back of the head, and he does to me.

My parents were on the spank train, and all it really got them was me being better at lying to them to avoid spankings, or me learning to sell the reaction better so they'd think they got their point across. The most effective discipline I've found is a quiet, stern talk. This will likely change, however, when he hits 10+.

 

[lacktheknack]

You know your kid better than anyone else, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

If you put a bit of brainpower into it, you KNOW what discipline works and what doesn't on your kid, specifically.

It's not popular, but you know what discipline worked better on me than anything else? A spanking. It made me listen and I tried to do better next time. This never happened if a toy was taken from me or I was lectured at.

I don't understand why the world acts like it's full of parents like the ones from Trainspotters. Parents love their kid in a deeper and more powerful way than you will EVER get (until you have one of your own, anyways). It's not about how it makes you feel as the spanker. It's not about making the kid fear you. It's about administering a proportional discipline to fit the crime. Anyone who loses sight of that is a bad parent, end of.

A good parent who knows their kid and can administer a swat that causes pain without injury is free to do so as they see fit. The end.

 

[infohippie]

I think it depends on your definitions a lot. Obviously full-on beating your child is completely unacceptable, and I don't think an old-fashioned spanking is effective, either. However I firmly believe there are times that a light swat across the hand or butt gets the point across more effectively than anything else.

 

[White Lightning]

I've never believed that time outs and groundings or taking your kids stuff ever worked. The only kids it works on are dumb ones, plain and simple. I'd go as far to say that if your kid can't find a way around those forms of punishment you raised a moron.

When I was told I couldn't play games after school I followed it for a day, then figured out a way around it. I just told my parents I had to stay late after school, then I just went to a friends house and played with them for a bit before going home. I don't know about your situation but my parents had to work a lot so they couldn't always keep track of my shenanigans. That's just one example, I've got tons more.

Fact of the matter is the only time I ever listened was when I knew I was gonna smacked for not listening.

 

[Redryhno]

Hitting will have an effect once or twice, maybe. But more than that and your just showing the kid the limit and teaching them that its not only alright to hit those smaller than them, but feels good too. Still though, even "having" to do it once means somethings gone wrong, you've already fucked something up.

Debatable, it really depends on the kid. Me, I was stubborn, but knew how to act to avoid the punishment, and then just sorta mellowed out. My girlfriend though? Uh-uh, she liked being a troublemaker(possibly because she was the baby by like ten years in her family until we were like 15 and her brother was another surprise for them, I think...I never asked her parents), so she got a few kid's shares of spankings.

Some kids respond better to pain, some to "wasting" time stuck in their room without any power cords to anything or ways to distract themselves that aren't connected to them, some with physical labor or chores. Parents know their kids more than most anyone else, but as a general rule, I support a smack now and then when a kid screws up hard or throws a fit on purpose, and I like the option being open.

I'd like to say I don't support much more than a cutting board with holes drilled in it for the scary noise, and certainly not a closed hand or anything other than the butt or ears hit really. Painful, but not damaging, like a thistle that gets stuck between your toes.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

Sometimes the best way to get a point across is the 'ol five across the eyes! I was only ever hit once by my parents, and it was when my mom slapped me for dropping the F-bomb in front of her in a very casual way. I just recall that it sticks out very vividly to me because they didn't do that kind of stuff and it immediately set me straight.

If you know how to utilize many different discipline techniques and how to apply them to your children, that is how you will get the best result. Every child is different and every situation is different. There is no blanket answer.