So apparently JonTron is a racist

[Worgen]

jon no...

Ok so...Im a huge Jontron fan, so I want this to not be true. Now, I have watched alot of Game Grumps, and rewatch his era often, and well, one he tends towards left-wing views, and two...he SUCKS at articulating his views. I dont want to pull a Trump move and say "He doesnt mean anything he says" but I have listened to too many debates he had with Arin where he was totally right, but argued and explained his side absolutely terribly.

I am going to have to watch this whole thing myself before I determine whatever though, cause I dont really trust other's to filter this for me. It is gonna really bum me out though if he said some straight up racist shit.

He might not be racist but he says some pretty racist stuff and believes some pretty racist stuff. Sooo....

He also just totally sucks at making a point, he kept trying to run from the points Destiny brings up and makes some huge claims without backing it up with anything except to say "look it up." You say that when you have nothing to back up your point. You can't make an extreme claim like "rich blacks commit more crime than poor whites" without backing that up with more than "look it up." The burden of proof was on jonny boy to prove it.

 

[Cold Shiny]

I still to this day don't know what "alt right" even is.

Seriously, is it a liberal label for conservatives who are idiots? That doesn't make any sense because I thought liberals considered ALL conservatives to be idiots, which renders the term "alt right" completely pointless.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

I still to this day don't know what "alt right" even is.

The Alt-Right, as described by Wikipedia, is a Right-Wing Political Movement that focuses on Racialism and 'Ethno-Nationalism'; specifically, it focuses on the idea that the "White Race" is threatened by those who aren't White. It advocates White Empowerment, Male Empowerment and the Dis-empowerment of Non-Whites, Women and the LGBTQ community. It flat out rejects Integration of any kind, Immigration of any kind, and Inter-racial Marriages of any kind (which most normal Conservatives do support, or at least don't out right condemn). The Alt-Right also advocates for Ethnic Cleansing, with the more hardcore Alt-Right Groups calling for out-right Genocides. They are essentially Neo-Nazi's under a different name (and with the ability to use the Internet correctly). They are not a group anyone should want to associate with.

OT: It really saddens me that JonTron has taken Racist and Alt-Right positions. It's especially saddening because Jon Jafari wouldn't even count as a white guy to these groups; he'd be a useful Minority at best, because he is of Iranian Decent. I'm torn on whether I want to stay subbed to him, mostly because I do like his work, but I don't support his political opinions, and his video's are starting to bring in Alt-Right people who's views I cannot accept.

And keep in mind, I don't support the more extreme SJW positions either. But I flat out refuse to even consider supporting Alt-Right views as anything other then Racist and Hateful.

 

[RaikuFA]

I bet Arin and Danny are glad they dodged that bullet.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand weeeeeeeeee're the Safe Grumps!

HEY HE'S FUCKED

WE'RE NOT SO FUCKED

AND WE'RE THE GOOD GRUMPS

HE SAID SOME STUPID THINGS

NOW HES GONNA PAY FOR IT ALL

SO ALL ABOARD THE SHAME TRAIN

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I bet Arin and Danny are glad they dodged that bullet.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand weeeeeeeeee're the Safe Grumps!

HEY HE'S FUCKED

WE'RE NOT SO FUCKED

AND WE'RE THE GOOD GRUMPS

It's bullshit like this that reaffirms my love for Arin and Danny. For all the flak they catch about not completing games or playing them the wrong way, they genuinely come across as YouTube's good guys for me. The worst controversy they ever had to weather was getting rid of JonTron.

Good fucking riddance.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Hang on here, are you suggesting that the current Right wings opposition to Islam isn't based on the defense of secular values but rather based on sectarian fight to reinstall christian influences by having a collective boogeyman and attacking all but the far-right as not wanting to combat fundamentalism despite none of the Right Wing exemplars actually doing anything to combat Islamic extremism beyond superficial showings?

*gasp* How did you know?!

Did people care about a Lets Player who wasn't robbaz or rooster teeth?

Bruh one of the top-post on the JonTron subreddit right now is to turn the sub into a videogamedunkey sub, and videogamedunkey is [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EvbqxBUG_c] confirmed [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-khGy_yN8E] for [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvcFRgJwE2k] hilarious. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN-rVlMIJZs] Spaghetti punch! [https://youtu.be/XQDw1hlU99E?t=77]

Also, JonTron wasn't really a Let's-Play-er.

There aren't very many Christian extremists immigrating to Europe.

Many left-wingers seem very keen on bringing up Christian extremists whilst ignoring what a large portion of Muslims hold similar beliefs.

Yeah exactly, they're even worse as the Christian extremists are already here. And even committing more acts of terror in the US than Muslim extremists. Considering the lack of critique from much of the right you'd almost think that in the end it's not about secular values at all, but about them only wanting their brand of religious conservatism around. Mike Pence likes to say hello.

Also, you'll actually find that leftists *gasp* do not fancy conservative Islamic points of view towards social issues because they're the antithesis of what they think should be law. You'd almost think that they tolerate people thinking certain thinks without wanting what they believe to be law and without accepting those people breaking our laws.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Ooohhhh boy. Stick to what you're good at man.

Just because you disagree with him doesn't mean he isn't right about what he's talking about.

Just because he's a celebrity, doesn't mean he is right. I could swear i heard the same argument few months before, defending hollywood celebs threatening to move to Canada.

This accusation has been going around for a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6uTKPwVnNI

Dunkey's black, though(that's why i don't watch him) and of puerto rican descent. That's almost mexican, means he has agendas.

 

[awesomeClaw]

Those are indeed disturbing statistics, but looking at the source of the surveys (see http://i.imgur.com/TZR5I61.png), it appears that the majority of the countries surveyed are from Muslim-majority countries (Russia and Thailand are exceptions I can nominate off the top of my head), and from countries that wouldn't usually be counted among the MEDC bloc (and again, Russia and Thailand would fall under said bloc). It would be more interesting to see statistics from Muslims in countries where they're the minority, and how the statistics stack up based on what generation they're in.

Make no mistake, I think many aspects of Islam are abhorhent, and it's laughable to hear people claim it's a "religion of peace." Still, like practically every religion, the level of commitment does vary by individual. So on one hand, I'm quite happy for people to call Islam out on its BS, like every other religion (even if Islam lends itself to militancy far more readily than, say, Jainism). On the other, I'm wary of lumping every follower into the melting pot. Not every Christian is a young earth, anti-gay, anti-secularist loon after all, to name one example. You can practice a religion and still be a perfectly rational person.

Good thing there exists a similar study but for immigrants, then:

https://www.wzb.eu/sites/default/files/u6/koopmans_englisch_ed.pdf

Neat. Where's the survey of Muslim natives? I mean, we wouldn't want to be showing off biased surveys, right?

In mean, I know the USA isn't Europe, but over here there's more support for stuff like LGBT rights and same sex marriage among Muslims that from the dramatically larger and more politically powerful Evangelical Christian population: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/11/03/chapter-4-social-and-political-attitudes/

Alright, I'll bite.

According to a survey reported on by the Telegraph, 40% of young muslims living in the UK would prefer to live under Sharia Law.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540895/Young-British-Muslims-getting-more-radical.html

More fun quotes:

"One in eight young muslims said they admired groups such as Al-Qa'eda that are 'prepared to fight the west'"

"Turning to issues of faith, 36 per cent of the young people questioned said they believed that a Muslim who converts to another religion should be 'punished by death.'"

The study "Second-generation Muslims in European societies: Comparative perspectives on education and religion" (2011) performed a survey, wherein they asked (selected to be representative for the community) second-generation muslims in (among other places) Amsterdam and Berlin (just as an example) whether they felt "Islam should be the only and ultimate authority in political matters." They were asked to rate the claim, from 1-5, where 1 was "strongly disagree" and 5 was "strong agree". What was the mean result?

Amsterdam: 2.25

Berlin: 2.58

Brussels: 2.15

Stockholm: 1.22

Now granted, that is better than the immigrant generation (especially in Stockholm), but it's not by a huge margin. Many of them almost land on 3, that is to say, either a large portion want sharia and a large portion doesn't, or most people center around the mean that Islam should somewhat be the ultimate and final authority in political matters.

But either way, this in no way disproves my claim it's a bad idea to reduce immigration from muslim countries (I also support that idea for other reasons, that have to do with culture and education). Indeed, as the British example shows, deradicalisation is not a done deal. It could go either way.

 

[Ninjamedic]

Anyone here remember when Spoony left TGWTG?

 

[Cowabungaa]

Indeed, as the British example shows, deradicalisation is not a done deal. It could go either way.

No shit. These are some of the most disenfranchised people we have in our societies. And you're surprised they turn inward instead of embracing more typical Western values? Are you surprised many of them might prefer to live under a legal system based upon one of the few things they can recognise as something they might belong to, namely their religion? How about we treat them as fellow citizens instead of trash.

 

[Silence]

8% OH NO THEY COMPLETELY TAKE OVER WHITE PEOPLE

So yeah, how do we get people like Zontar away from actual dangerous delusions?

From the exact same source you just used.

Yeah, pretty worrying, as it turns out.

Your picture includes the muslim countries with actual Sharia law like Saudi-Arabia etc, at least if "worlds muslim population" in the URL is anything to go by. This has nothing to do with the 8% in europe.

You know the people usually fleeing these countries are usually the ones not agreeing with that.

Not to mention that if people come here, they will be imprisoned if they go through with something like that ...

Why am I even responding?

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I expect a reasonable and polite debate over the merit of his views.... AHAHAHA, couldn't keep a straight face.

Anyone here remember when Spoony left TGWTG?

I do see the similarities...

If I ever had a following as big as JonTron, I would keep my political opinions pretty damn close to my chest unless it was a critical component of my content. As it is, he's a loud and brash person whose opinion swings wide irrespective of others feelings. Tact is not in his wheelhouse and wowie zowie.... That was a display of little tact...

 

[awesomeClaw]

Indeed, as the British example shows, deradicalisation is not a done deal. It could go either way.

No shit. These are some of the most disenfranchised people we have in our societies. And you're surprised they turn inward instead of embracing more typical Western values? Are you surprised many of them might prefer to live under a legal system based upon one of the few things they can recognise as something they might belong to, namely their religion? How about we treat them as fellow citizens instead of trash.

I am not surprised at all; but being poor is an explanation, not an excuse, and the fact that's it is because of >insert reason here< does not make the problem go away.

Another suggestion might be restricting immigration from muslim countries, since we know these kind of problem can (and often do) result? Just a thought.

But of course we should treat all muslims with proper Western values as equals, and not look down upon them. I would never implore anyone to do otherwise.

 

[Ninjamedic]

If I ever had a following as big as JonTron, I would keep my political opinions pretty damn close to my chest unless it was a critical component of my content. As it is, he's a loud and brash person whose opinion swings wide irrespective of others feelings. Tact is not in his wheelhouse and wowie zowie.... That was a display of little tact...

Given I wasn't aware of any debate he was involved until this thing flared up, I have to ask, what is his goal here? I get criticising the hyperbole he got hit with in previous times and wanting to emphasize discussion, but this is just making an arse of himself in a conversation he really doesn't have enough experience in, he's not going to win anyone over like that.

 

[Terminal Blue]

It seems to me, that the fascists are on the rise on either side of the spectrum, be it left or right.

Well, the same essay identifies other attributes of fascism which are pretty exclusive to the right, like traditionalism or the exploitation of a fear of difference, so in a technical sense not really.. but I see what you're getting at. "Totalitarianism" or "anti-liberalism" might be a better term.

Even then though. Really?

It seems to me that if there is a crisis or call for action on the left, it is a call for action against fascism (or proto-fascism). You could say that my own post is based on an alarmist proclamation that a harmless internet personality is somehow stirring up actual literal fascism. However, that "crisis" is based partly on a recognition that you can't counter anti-intellectual or anti-rationalist positions using reason.

So, let's take a more neutral example. Radical Islamists who think that terrorism is justified (despite the fact that no traditional source of Islamic religious authority actually agrees) cannot be rationally debated or persuaded out of their position. Any attempt to engage with or debate them will simply give them airtime to declare a crisis and demand that the audience take action, and some people in the audience will agree regardless of what you bring to say they are wrong. That's why we don't debate or accommodate radical Islamists. We don't and shouldn't accept them as just another legitimate political position. It's not just proto-fascism or a fear of different opinions which motivates us to suppress radical Islamism but the immutability of that position to any kind of reasonable argument and the potentially devastating consequences of its spread.

Any anti-intellectual position is essentially the same. If someone literally doesn't care what is false but only what needs to be true to justify what they want to do to people. If someone is simply going to repeat the claim that there is a crisis, that immediate action is needed, that inaction is inherently wrong, that "your people" are under threat and you need to do something. If someone's whole narrative is based on an apocalyptic war between the "goodies" who need to heroically act right now without thinking about it and the "baddies", the betas and cucks who demand evidence and thus are secretly on the side of the invasive enemy, then that is really no different to the above. It may be slightly more subtle in the violent implications of its rhetoric, but it's still immutable to rational debate.

The final solution didn't happen because noone pointed out how obviously wrong all the Nazi ideology which made it necessary was. It happened because it literally didn't matter whether or not people pointed out how obviously wrong all the Nazi ideology which made it necessary was, because that same ideology told them that questions or fact-checking were treasonous when the German race was in an apocalyptic war for survival.

 

[McMarbles]

In other news:

A university in Canada has gotten rid of weight scales in their gym due to a few students complaining that they were being triggered by them. In an update to this story from when I heard about it two days ago: apparently the university may reconsider this move due to complaints from conservative groups and media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/14/a-canadian-university-removed-scales-the-weighing-kind-from-its-gym-outraging-conservative-media/?utm_term=.ee4860dcf6b3

In other-other news:

New York as a state has removed the Literacy portion of the standard exam in order to qualify to become a teacher due to critics of this portion of the test saying it unfairly disqualifies a disproportionately large number of prospective black and hispanic teachers.

http://nypost.com/2017/03/13/state-nixes-literacy-exam-for-prospective-teachers/

In other news: this has fuck all to do with the topic and is nothing more than "LOOK OVER THERE! LOOK AT THAT! BE DISTRACTED!"

I'm very sorry Jontron put his stupidity and loathesomeness on display for all to see, but these things happen. Accept it with dignity, instead of desperately flailing about shouting "YEAH BUT LOOK OVER THERE!"

 

[hentropy]

This type of race politics ruin people. It doesn't matter which side you're on, really. Rather than focusing on ways to make things better for everyone, people get singularly obsessed with these identity politics. Everything they see, hear, or read becomes about it, every discussion is a reinforcement.

Of course, there is no room for nuance or maturely considering the big picture and other perspectives that aren't your own. I compare it to when someone develops strong religious views when they're a teenager, whether it be them becoming some hardcore evangelical or hardcore atheist, there's always a phase where everything becomes about that. They think they're being completely new and original when they say these things, bringing the unfiltered truth and reason to the masses by blathering on. Most of them realize years later that they were just being annoying kids.

I don't know Jon, but that is at least my theory as to what is happening here. As far as anyone could tell he's been pretty apolitical throughout his career, and that's not necessarily because he's a secret Nazi. He became famous and rich when he was pretty young, and may not have had much reason to develop a real political ideology outside of what directly affected him, which wasn't much. I just hope he's okay, a lot of people go through these "political awakenings" (along with religious and other things) because they're having serious problems in their personal life, and need the conflict as an outlet. This is reinforced in my mind by his most recent Q&A, he's clearly picked up a lot of talking points but his actual historical knowledge seems rather uninformed (I'm pretty sure WWII wasn't started because snowflakes who care about racial equality got their fee-fees hurt.) It's indicative of someone who's rather new to this whole thing.

In any case, I unsubbed a while ago, one moderately funny video every six months or longer is not worth it anymore.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Now let's talk about shitty things that Christians believe.

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/christians/christian/

38% believe in absolute standards of right and wrong. I'd like to point out that the Bible says some pretty fucked up things about what's right and wrong.

51% believe abortions should be illegal in all/most cases.

38% believe homosexuality should be discouraged.

48% opposed same-sex marriage.

42% don't believe in evolution.

https://www.atheoryofus.net/christianity-statistics/

Christians in Latin America.

80% believe abortion is immoral.

65% think homosexual sex is immoral.

54% think alcohol is immoral.

50% think unmarried sex is immoral.

31% think divorce is immoral

22% think contraception is immoral.

56% think wives should always obey their husbands.

35% favor direct state support of religion.

33% prefer a strong leader over a democracy.

Not as bad as the Muslim views, but they're still pretty damn disgusting, and I never see a backlash towards Christianity the way I always see towards Islam.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

Okay.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I disagree rather strongly with what he's saying but... you know, he's just some guy. His political views really, really shouldn't be something anyone listens too. He's not a particulary educated man who can provide unique insights, he's a dude who plays video games for the internet. Which is fine. I'm also a dude who plays video games for the internet (Though for a practically nonexistent viewer base) and I sometimes express my political views here but that doesn't make me an authority.

Really, I find it a bit concerning how much political discours these days seems to be dominated by people who don't seem to know a whole lot about politics. JonTron is an entertainer, not someone we should turn to to get a perspective on current events. I don't get the impression that he has a very good idea what he's talking about or does much more than just repeat a bunch of very, very trite conservative talking points that seem to be fairly uninformed.

You know, whenever I hear those alt-right folks talk I get the feeling that they never stop and actually think about what they're saying but rather just repeat a bunch of hollow phrases they never really question. You'd think it's just some sort of fad rather than an actual ideology.

 

[KenAri]

Deleted