So apparently JonTron is a racist

[Imre Csete]

Okay.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I disagree rather strongly with what he's saying but... you know, he's just some guy. His political views really, really shouldn't be something anyone listens too. He's a particulary educated man who can provide unique insights, he's a dude who plays video games for the internet. Which is fine. I'm also a dude who plays video games for the internet (Though for a practically nonexistent viewer base) and I sometimes express my political views here but that doesn't make me an authority.

You tell that to the lunatics who think YouTubers are using their platform to recruit gamers to the alt-right cause, which is a testbed for the real tactics they will use in office.

 

[DaCosta]

The Western world is only 810 million people, unless you count the Southern Cone and Brazil, in which case it's just a singular billion.

And why wouldn't you? Are they somehow in the east?

And since we're on this subject.

Well first and foremost would be mass immigration. Hell in a move that makes the claim that the left is inherently educated have no basis in reality, when Ann Coulter and Cenk Uygur had their debate a few years back and one of them mentioned whites becoming a minority in the US if trends don't change, the mostly liberal crowed applauded because apparently the stereotype of the American who never looks beyond his country's boarders is true given the state of Brazil and South Africa.

...What?

 

[megs1120]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/23/poor-white-kids-are-less-likely-to-go-to-prison-than-rich-black-kids/?utm_term=.c34c7476778e


That's about as close as I can get in two minutes of google searching, hope it's good enough.

Yeah but what about his feelings? If he feels like black people are inherently criminal, who are we lowly cucks to disagree?

 

[Exley97_v1legacy]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/23/poor-white-kids-are-less-likely-to-go-to-prison-than-rich-black-kids/?utm_term=.c34c7476778e


That's about as close as I can get in two minutes of google searching, hope it's good enough.

This is the aforementioned "Race, Wealth and Incarceration: Results from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth" paper from Duke University researchers, and it's been repurposed by alt-right fanboys and white supremacists to bolster the exact opposite point the authors arrived at. In other words, folks like JonTron use it to illustrate the claim that blacks are prone to more criminal behavior while also arguing that discrimination doesn't exist in America (LOL), yet the authors who conducted the study say the very opposite -- that "race trumps class" and that being wealthy won't protect black people from incarceration the same way it protects white people. It's not that rich black people commit MORE crime -- it's that they're more likely to go to prison for committing a crime than rich white people.

 

[Erttheking]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/23/poor-white-kids-are-less-likely-to-go-to-prison-than-rich-black-kids/?utm_term=.c34c7476778e


That's about as close as I can get in two minutes of google searching, hope it's good enough.

It's certainly something (thank you for actually citing a source) but I can't help but point out that it says that rich blacks are more likely to go to jail than poor whites, not that they committed more crimes. A very important distinction to make, and even the article seems to think it's bullshit and primarily fueled by racism and not that black people just happen to commit more crimes. Mainly because the majority of us have actually performed an arrestable offense.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/dec/08/stephen-carter/watch-out-70-us-have-done-something-could-put-us-j/

 

[pulse2]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/23/poor-white-kids-are-less-likely-to-go-to-prison-than-rich-black-kids/?utm_term=.c34c7476778e


That's about as close as I can get in two minutes of google searching, hope it's good enough.

This is the aforementioned "Race, Wealth and Incarceration: Results from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth" paper from Duke University researchers, and it's been repurposed by alt-right fanboys and white supremacists to bolster the exact opposite point the authors arrived at. In other words, folks like JonTron use it to illustrate the claim that blacks are prone to more criminal behavior while also arguing that discrimination doesn't exist in America (LOL), yet the authors who conducted the study say the very opposite -- that "race trumps class" and that being wealthy won't protect black people from incarceration the same way it protects white people. It's not that rich black people commit MORE crime -- it's that they're more likely to go to prison for committing a crime than rich white people.

This is what I find funny about Zontar's comments.

No, Jon isn't right, what he's done is clearly proven the point that blacks have been making all along and that those who don't want to hear have been covering their ears about.

The point being made isn't that wealthy blacks commit more crimes than poor whites, a concept I find hilarious to say the least, because it's been pushed as propaganda since slavery and to this day hasn't changed, but that regardless of what may be, black males in particular will ALWAYS be more likely to be incarcerated than white males will for the same things, however big or small they may be. This has been a trend for decades, it isn't new news. I've grown up seeing this and hearing this. It was why the black panthers were formed, however much I disagree with their methods and why BLM exists today.

Discrimination exists, it's not always prominent and some will get by without experiencing much of it, but it's always there so long as there is someone who dislikes or disagrees with you and there are more than enough racist people to continue on that trend.
Racism doesn't just vanish because the times have changed and that idea is fantastical.

I AM Black, so I know what it's like going into a shop with my white friends and being the only one being followed and eagle eyed by security. I'm used to being stopped for "appearing suspicious", despite wearing a suit. I've grown accustomed to white people touching my hair and acting as though it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I've accepted the fact that I have to work 3 times harder and achieve 3 times more than my white peers to get the same job, I understand why my mother chose to call me Greg, a common seemingly none black name, rather than Tyrone, in order for me to be more likely to get jobs and opportunities.

So when people like Zontar lecture me on what I experience everyday, I can't help but cross my arms and wonder, where exactly are you getting your information from? He seems articulate, so I'm utterly baffled as to how a person could be so buffered by the rosy and dandy picture others have painted for him.

 

[Leg End]

I've grown accustomed to white people touching my hair

Is this seriously a thing? I'm firmly convinced that this is just stupid people who would violate anyone's space to feel hair regardless of race. I've had a older mexican woman compliment me and go for the touch but I didn't say anything because I didn't mind. I don't think it's limited to just white people to blacks.

 

[Parasondox]

 

[InflatableHippo]

This accusation has been going around for a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6uTKPwVnNI

I've seen it before and it still holds up. Always a great laugh. Thanks.

 

[the December King]

Jeez...

I watched about 30 mins or so, I guess.

Was Jon asked to speak specifically on this, or was this something that just kinda... happened? Because it feels like he wandered into something he simply wasn't prepared for, and the other guy certainly was ready. It certainly doesn't feel like Jon has any degree of expertise or education in any of the talking points that were tackled in this... debate?

Awkward...

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Yeah he pretty clearly is. And by the way, uninformed and racist are hardly mutually exclusive. Same with being shit at articulating his points, not mutually exclusive with racism. Racism doesn't mean he has to be some malevolent entity. People can be pretty casually racist. He's certainly above that level but he doesn't need to be shouting for someone to die or something to be a racist.

 

[Dizchu]

From the exact same source you just used.

Yeah, pretty worrying, as it turns out.

Speaking of "exact source you just used", Pew Forum actually did a survey that indicated that Evangelicals in the USA are more conservative than Muslims. Where's the panic about Evangelicals?

"Wealthy Blacks commit more crimes than poor whites, thats a fact."

This is true

First of all the "wealthy blacks commit more crimes than poor whites" claim is, under the most charitable interpretation, questionable. Second of all if poverty and law enforcement have no influence on the disproportionate crime statistics (as Jon claims), what is the explanation for the discrepancy? Jon was extremely evasive when it came to this and my worry is that he actually thinks that there is a genetic component which is by definition racist.

But of course, those defending him insist that that's not what he's saying. Which begs the question, what is he saying? He dismisses environmental factors as irrelevant fluff. What else is there?

Destiny can't handle the bants and JonTron isn't racist.

Ah yes the final defense, "it was just a joke".

 

[EquestrianGeneral]

To be honest, this "debate" was a joke from both sides: Jon is clearly not used to debating and couldn't form many coherent points (and properly defend them), and Destiny's debating "style" is rather frustrating (dodging questions, changing the scope of the debate as is convenient for his argument, etc). However, I don't believe that what Jon says makes him a racist; to be honest, he really didn't say anything overtly insensitive or racist, and several of the inflammatory statements that he did make can be backed up by statistics.

Additionally, several of Destiny's arguments and comments were completely asinine and rather unsettling (ex. "What's wrong with Communism?", "Nothing is happening in Europe", etc). Nobody is talking about how statements like that can be broadly seen as him being a Communist and a denier of reality, only that Jon's critical statements of illegal immigrants and pointing out that people are inherently tribal and want to see their population and culture represented as the majority clearly makes him racist.

Frankly, I thought that many of Destiny's points outshone Jon's in their overt stupidity and ignorance. Additionally, his debating, while certainly more composed and organized than that of Jon, was rather poor and frankly cowardly. But nobody is talking about that. Just that Jon is clearly a Nazi white supremacist.

 

[Dizchu]

Frankly, I thought that many of Destiny's points outshone Jon's in their overt stupidity and ignorance. Additionally, his debating, while certainly more composed and organized than that of Jon, was rather poor and frankly cowardly. But nobody is talking about that. Just that Jon is clearly a Nazi white supremacist.

People are more outraged at Jon because suggesting that certain ideas are racist doesn't come close to suggesting that being born with a certain skin colour makes you more prone to violence.

 

[EquestrianGeneral]

Frankly, I thought that many of Destiny's points outshone Jon's in their overt stupidity and ignorance. Additionally, his debating, while certainly more composed and organized than that of Jon, was rather poor and frankly cowardly. But nobody is talking about that. Just that Jon is clearly a Nazi white supremacist.

People are more outraged at Jon because suggesting that certain ideas are racist doesn't come close to suggesting that being born with a certain skin colour makes you more prone to violence.

Statistically though, some minority groups commit a disproportionate amount of crime. While the statement was poorly phrased, the stats can generally back it up. Any given person is not more likely to inherently be a violent person because of their skin color, but across the US, the numbers are there.

 

[Dizchu]

Statistically though, minorities commit a disproportionate amount of crime. While the statement was poorly phrased, the stats can generally back it up. Any given person is not more likely to inherently be a violent person because of their skin color, but across the US, the numbers are there.

Nobody's denying that, what people are doing is determining why the discrepancy exists. Meanwhile Jon dismisses any analysis as "SJW nonsense" intended to make white people feel guilty. Jon was very hesitant to provide a reason why he thinks the discrepancy exists, going as far to say that if he did elaborate it'd be "incriminating" which is pretty worrying considering how controversial the things he did say were.

It's the whole correlation vs. causation thing again. Demonstrating that black people commit more crime is one thing, demonstrating that there's a genetic predisposition to violence and crime is another (and also not a claim to be made lightly because it is textbook racism).

 

[EquestrianGeneral]

Statistically though, minorities commit a disproportionate amount of crime. While the statement was poorly phrased, the stats can generally back it up. Any given person is not more likely to inherently be a violent person because of their skin color, but across the US, the numbers are there.

Nobody's denying that, what people are doing is determining why the discrepancy exists. Meanwhile Jon dismisses any analysis as "SJW nonsense" intended to make white people feel guilty. Jon was very hesitant to provide a reason why he thinks the discrepancy exists, going as far to say that if he did elaborate it'd be "incriminating" which is pretty worrying considering how controversial the things he did say were.

It's the whole correlation vs. causation thing again. Demonstrating that black people commit more crime is one thing, demonstrating that there's a genetic predisposition to violence and crime is another (and also not a claim to be made lightly because it is textbook racism).

The thing is that most of the time as of late, the explanations from the left for the discrepancy are rather accusatory (institutional racism, discrimination by the justice system and police force, slavery) toward the white population and simply ignore the real problems. Some issues (such as poor funding for inner city schools) are the fault of the government or others, but a majority of the problems rest on the shoulders of the minorities themselves.

In African American communities, there are rampant problems with single parenthood and general poor parenting. Part of the issue comes from poor funding to public schools (as I said before), but it also comes down to the responsibility of the parents and youth to receive as good of an education as possible.

A positive example of a minority community is (generally) the Asian community; on average, they work hard, accept the societal norms of America, and generally lead good lives as a result.

Saying these things are deemed "racist" though, so it's just easier to say that the whole country is out to make the lives of minorities difficult.

 

[megs1120]

Statistically though, minorities commit a disproportionate amount of crime. While the statement was poorly phrased, the stats can generally back it up. Any given person is not more likely to inherently be a violent person because of their skin color, but across the US, the numbers are there.

Nobody's denying that, what people are doing is determining why the discrepancy exists. Meanwhile Jon dismisses any analysis as "SJW nonsense" intended to make white people feel guilty. Jon was very hesitant to provide a reason why he thinks the discrepancy exists, going as far to say that if he did elaborate it'd be "incriminating" which is pretty worrying considering how controversial the things he did say were.

It's the whole correlation vs. causation thing again. Demonstrating that black people commit more crime is one thing, demonstrating that there's a genetic predisposition to violence and crime is another (and also not a claim to be made lightly because it is textbook racism).

The thing is that most of the time as of late, the explanations from the left for the discrepancy are rather accusatory (institutional racism, discrimination by the justice system and police force, slavery) toward the white population and simply ignore the real problems. Some issues (such as poor funding for inner city schools) are the fault of the government or others, but a majority of the problems rest on the shoulders of the minorities themselves.

In African American communities, there are rampant problems with single parenthood and general poor parenting. Part of the issue comes from poor funding to public schools (as I said before), but it also comes down to the responsibility of the parents and youth to receive as good of an education as possible.

A positive example of a minority community is (generally) the Asian community; on average, they work hard, accept the societal norms of America, and generally lead good lives as a result.

Saying these things are deemed "racist" though, so it's just easier to say that the whole country is out to make the lives of minorities difficult.

Part of the reason why there are so many black single mothers is because their partners are vastly more likely to go to jail for petty things like driving with a broken taillight or failing to use a seat belt.

 

[Vigormortis]

Racist? Hmm, I dunno. I don't think I've ever seen him as racist. Uncouth and nonpolitically-correct, sure, but never racist.

With that in mind, let's see if this claim has any merit. I don't see that it could be, from what I've seen from him, but let's have a look anyway. First, we'll start with the definition of 'racist'.

From Webster-Merrian:
Racist -
1
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2
a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principlesb : a political or social system founded on racism

3
: racial prejudice or discrimination


While I've seen him crack some questionable jokes I've never really heard him say anything that I would think falls into the above definition. So let's give this 'debate' a listen. I doubt he'll say anything that would fall int....

Spoiler: And then he had to go and say this...

JonTron - "It's a soft displacement, dude. Hahaha. Come on. And, okay, and when they become the majority they will vote in their own interest. They won't vote in white American's interests. So, white people have a legitimate..."

Destiny - "What is a white Americ, wait, what is a white American interest? Can you give me an example of, like, white American legislation? Or, white American..."

JonTron - "My friend, there is a clear divide in the way that people think. White people tend towards the libertarian side of things, and the...the, at least the first generation Mexicans, vote heavily, in terms of government handouts..."

I stand corrected. What the actual fuck, JonTron?

Dude OD'd on redpills, this stuff happens.

OD'd so hard he'd be considered brain dead on arrival. Holy shit, man, he sounds like my father. I wouldn't be surprised to find out JonTron watches Fox News and Breitbart religiously, nor would I be surprised to hear him talk about Obama running a shadow government to undermine Trump.

Ugh! Disgusting! Allowing black and white puppies to play together. Do you not see the danger? Are you not scared of diluting the puppy gene pool to the point that we only have grey puppies? How DARE you?!

I am appalled! Repulsed! I can't believe you would advocate such degeneracy! It's certainly not like my heart melted just a little when I saw your post while scrolling through the comments...

<.<

 

[EquestrianGeneral]

Now here's the important question: What do you attribute that to?

In the case of African Americans, I'd say that it's a lesser emphasis on education within the communities and rampant poverty/lack of responsibility and respect for the law (partially due to said lack of emphasis on education). In the case of illegal immigrants, it's usually also a case of lack of education and respect for the law. So I guess that's usually the main issue.

Do you not think there is any institutionalized discrimination in North America?

I'm sure that it exists within the US (there are stats to imply that such things exist), however I feel that it is massively overblown. Many problems faced by minorities have been explained away with the explanation of institutionalized discrimination, to the point that I frankly find it irresponsible.